No Remorse Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Hey all Before the Canadian GD, Vince, his finacee and me and my wife had breakfast and in the ensuing conversation Vince was kind enough to tell me what he had learned from Jeremie Bonamant in the seminars he held with the Montreal Team. I think it only right that I extend these little tidbits to you guys, in the hopes that those interested in improving will put them to good use. First came lighting, which usually we ignore when mini painting, believe it or not, we give little attention to the fact that light becomes more faint as one gets further away from the light source, thus the top of the mini will have much larger areas of highlight than lower areas. This will take a bit of work for me as I am so used to using ambient light sourcing for my minis. The next tip is one EVERYONE should read and put into practice. Basically it starts as I have alwyas recommended which is using a white undercoat. Here's the neat part though, DON'T basecoat, that's right do not put a basecoat down, the reason will become evident. What the idea is is to use the white as your final highlight and rather than working from your basecoat and shaded then highlighting, you work down from you brightest highlight, white, down to you darkest shade. To do this technique you really have to dilute your paint, right now I am working at about 3:1 to 5:1 (water to paint). I know it seems crazy but that is what works. Right now I add about 3 drops of water to a 2mm (1/32") blob of paint. your paint will bcome almost transluscent, this is exactly what you want. When you begin to paint, use the very tip of your brush to pick up the paint and dab any excess off on a piece of paper towel. Layer the area as much as possible with the paint on your brush, continue until you reach the point where the paint becaomes almost opaque on the area, then switch to your next shade. This method is EXTREMELY fast! I have increased my speed by at least 2 if not 5 times faster. Just be careful not to overdue it with the paint, the less paint you use the better the result will be. Next was a bit on colour theory, using contrasting colours to shade or cooler colours to shade, I know most of this of course, but I went and bought a book on colour theory to helps me out a bit more. I recommend doing the same. A good book is Exploring Color by Nita Leland. Anyway starting yesterday I wanted to play with everything I learned so I started a squad of sister's of battle for my new army. These are the results after about 6 hours of work! Probably my best flesh to date, and easily my quickest layering. BTW I did not take time to really keep the layering very smooth, but this is going to be a play army so I didn't feel the need to put down 100 layers, each area is only about 20 - 40 layers. http://greenman.publicmine.com/gallery/alb...1/Heads_WIP.jpg http://greenman.publicmine.com/gallery/alb...inished_WIP.jpg If you have any qyestions feel free to ask! Ja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angelus Sanctus Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 The paint work is fantastic, well done :devil: I think for your new painting style, you have got the technique settled very quickly. Not much to say other than great work and good luck with your technique and painting up the minis :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no-use4a-name Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Thanks for the insight. It almost goes against what I was taught in art school. Generally speaking, one should work dark to light. Then again, 2d painting is very different than 3d model painting. Based on your pictures, the method works and it's something I'm going to attempt very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmato Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 The next tip is one EVERYONE should read and put into practice. Basically it starts as I have alwyas recommended which is using a white undercoat. Here's the neat part though, DON'T basecoat, that's right do not put a basecoat down, the reason will become evident. What the idea is is to use the white as your final highlight and rather than working from your basecoat and shaded then highlighting, you work down from you brightest highlight, white, down to you darkest shade. To do this technique you really have to dilute your paint, right now I am working at about 3:1 to 5:1 (water to paint). I know it seems crazy but that is what works. Right now I add about 3 drops of water to a 2mm (1/32") blob of paint. your paint will bcome almost transluscent, this is exactly what you want. When you begin to paint, use the very tip of your brush to pick up the paint and dab any excess off on a piece of paper towel. Layer the area as much as possible with the paint on your brush, continue until you reach the point where the paint becaomes almost opaque on the area, then switch to your next shade. This method is EXTREMELY fast! I have increased my speed by at least 2 if not 5 times faster. Just be careful not to overdue it with the paint, the less paint you use the better the result will be. So, let me get this straight. Say, I have a plastic mini, I go straight on with my brightest highlight onto it? Then work down? So say I'm doing my IF. I'd go from Bad Moon Yellow, to Sunburst highlights, and then paint yellow and do the base yellow then..I'm so lost :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Thanks for the insight. It almost goes against what I was taught in art school. Generally speaking, one should work dark to light. Then again, 2d painting is very different than 3d model painting. Based on your pictures, the method works and it's something I'm going to attempt very soon. ***actually whoever suggested dark to light is wrong...you simply CAN NOT do it when working with almost everything but paint(as the majority of things are designed to get darker, not lighter) im going to take what he explained and convert it to drawing ***this is link to one of my non warhammer related drawings, all white is simply the page(note face didnt photo so well...) specifically notice the hair Drawing **now the hair, look how theres a bunch of white, yet it still looks dark...i worked from the white areas and blended the other areas darker...since in a drawing its not possible to go from dark to light, because pencils get darker, not lighter :) White hair- white primer outline drawing defines shapes/flow-> model does this for you leaving white space grab light pencil start shading-> leaving white space, lightly shade everything but of course where the light hits and looks white(usually not a very big area) grab a darker pencil and blend darker areas darker-> same keep going until you hit black(if the area is deep enough or not affected by light)-> same and as he mentioned its faster because you are going from light to dark since after one highlight your light is already determined...but working dark to light you have to plan and work it as you go since the brightest spot is your last highlight ***hopefully that explains to some a bit better, how and why its viable to do it this way and MAN i should of known this.....im going to buy white primer today...some cork tops...and im going to do things properly :P thanks No Remorse for bringing me to my senses...hopefully i can deliver... Starks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmato Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 im going to take what he explained and convert it to drawing ***this is link to one of my non warhammer related drawings, all white is simply the page(note face didnt photo so well...) specifically notice the hair Drawing :) You drew that? I knew you were good, but wow, that's really somthing else...I've just shown it to my sister (the most stubborn artist, ever) and even she can't critique that shading.. and as he mentioned its faster because you are going from light to dark since after one highlight your light is already determined...but working dark to light you have to plan and work it as you go since the brightest spot is your last highlight I suppose that makes sense now, Thanks for clearing that up :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 :P You drew that? I knew you were good, but wow, that's really somthing else...I've just shown it to my sister (the most stubborn artist, ever) and even she can't critique that shading.. I suppose that makes sense now, Thanks for clearing that up :P ***hahaha that was my.....6th? ever portrait? ya i think so, i dont draw very often at all...but thanks! i made a real effort to improve on the hair, it was letting me down in previous drawings...but i think i got the effect quite well, it really pops out, i think the blending techniques really helped, leaving in more white than usual im glad it helped clear things up a bit :( hopefully i can attempt doing it this way when painting and have it turn out...i always did have a bit of trouble with colour... :) Starks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronophague Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Well, this technique is too slow IMO. :P Also, it easily, and often ends up looking very pastel like, not so much dark gothic. But this is why the french stuff looks so bright. :) Nice heads No_remorse. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 This method is EXTREMELY fast! These are the results after about 6 hours of work! OOOPS... I think we do not speak the same language !!! Fast, 6 hours for 5 heads and 5 helmets !!! golly !!! 6 hours for me and the whole squad is completed, maybe even 2nd turn in play !!! :) I must admit however that my minis actually DO NOT turn out so well... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Well that requires me to turn my painting style upside down :P . I will give it a try soon though. Thank you for passing the info on, it's highly appreciated :P Hmm I'm out of black primer :) I maybe trying it sooner than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Remorse Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 Well I am definitely glad people are finding this post useful. I wish I could claim credit for it :) Thanks for clearing up my jumble of words Stark. As for being too slow and producing muted tones. Well I am used to spending at least 40 hours per mini, so a technique that can cut that down in half or more is very welcome. The reason you get muted tones when using this technique is due to a couple of reasons, one you wanted muted tones thus that is what you use, OR your grasp of colour theory may be a bit off and you might be using colours that when combined make "mud" or pastel tones. As for french painting they like to use muted earth tones, thus that is why thier colour schemes look the way they do. Ja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moribund the Burgermeister Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Great technique! I'll try it out on my white primed Boogieman model (from Rackham ^_^ ) next week! Cheers; Moribund! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obliterator Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Great technique, and by the looks of it you got it down pretty good ^_^ . And more pink Sisters make Oblit happy :devil: ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angelus Sanctus Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 ^_^ I figured Oblit would crack at the Pink Sisters :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Remorse Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 The PURPLE sisters are my wife's scheme from a year ago, and since I bought the army "for her" I figure it would be more incentive for her to play them if I used her scheme Ja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angelus Sanctus Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 pink or purple, still looks good to me :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 First came lighting, which usually we ignore when mini painting, believe it or not, we give little attention to the fact that light becomes more faint as one gets further away from the light source, thus the top of the mini will have much larger areas of highlight than lower areas. This will take a bit of work for me as I am so used to using ambient light sourcing for my minis. This could explain some bits abit better :lol:. One think about leaving pure white highlights. It depends what material you have, if you want to paint some dark, brown, used, and gritty boots then you should not leave anything white. Any white you leave should matter. If the miniature has nice, washed and silky hair leave white specular highlights, but if you want to represent someone with dark and gritty hair then you don't need the the white, it would just give a wrong impression. White highlights are useful if you want to represent, clean, shiny, reflective, lightly textured objects (polished metals, glossy plasics, something very smooth, like skin that is sweaty or wet, somethng polished). For grittier stuff you should you use a different type of highlights. That improves the impression of materials on the miniature. And if the whole thing looks to pastel like then you can use an underpainting (some light washes) to add some different hues and remove some of the saturation and value. That will give your cascading shading some additional depth and make it easier to not look pastel like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel robertson Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Ok thats wierd! I have always been told only undercoat black. As its easier to highlight up from the shading. But they way you described it it sounds easier!! May have to test this as i have no black spray only white and no cash . . . Cheers, AR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Are Us Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Thanks for posting this NR. I'll have to give it a go myself. Very interesting concept indeed. The faces and helms look very nice so far. Can't wait to see how they progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Remorse Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 White highlights are useful if you want to represent, clean, shiny, reflective, lightly textured objects (polished metals, glossy plasics, something very smooth, like skin that is sweaty or wet, somethng polished). For grittier stuff you should you use a different type of highlights. Technically you don't need to leave the final highlight completely white, you can easily use another colour for your final highlight, for example the purple's final highlight is pink not white. The reason you leave the white is to allow an easier application of the final highlight, or to use white as a final highlight itself. Ja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripedog262 Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Great looking minis! Hate to break it to you though, but this technique isn't new, it's why the french are so good. Check out the tutorials section on Jeremy Bonamant's Website He talks about this technique a bit here and here, and there is more on the frech version of his site if you can read it. I think it's certainly interesting- and having tried it I can attest that it gives good results. The only trick is getting enough depth so that the mini doesn't look washed out... Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Remorse Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 I wasn't saying this technique is new, read my 1st post in this topic, but I should have worded the subject line better :P. I was merely pointing out that I just learned it and was trying it out and thought others would like to see the results. Ja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmoor Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 What colors did you use for the pink...um I mean purple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Remorse Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 VMC Pink, purple and ultramarine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_m4d_skillz Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 That's awesome, I'll try it out for sure! when your allready at it, which colours did you use for the flesh? looks great! :D keep it real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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