The AM, Mars, the Void Dragon, and Necrons

[Necrontyr]

YOu misunderstand my point, the Dragon wouldn't gain control of them, he just dills their minds with ideas, ok, let's say that the Techpreists are like composers, the Dragon doesn't fill their minds with what they should write and force them to write it, instead he gives them the inspiration, that final little chord which makes the piece work. Text referance to the fact that the Dragon imparted the knowledge to the Imperium, page 4 of the Necron Codex, it says that the great knowledge was given to them by the Omnissiah, not the Emperor, and it is common belief that the Omnissiah is the Dragon. Evidence that the Dragon is on Mars 'Visions of the Sleeping god' (Necron codex page 26) and 'Eldar artifact' (Page 5), both state that the Dragon is on Mars, one through actual mention and the other by stating that the Dragon sleeps in a Forge-World.

 

-necrodermis bonding with marines without harming or corrupting them.

 

Please refer to it as 'Living Metal', otherwise I might get annoyed by saying that you should check your own background info.

 

Yes but now the NB is loose while the dragon is still incapacitated and very voulnerable. Just this "small" matter with the exact location of the dragon. Thus all teh mystic enquires and contacts between the ctan and human pawns.

Just destroying the hiding place will not solve the problem (as mars would have been obliterated by now).

 

The Nightbringer doesn't even care about the Dragon, he's hungry, he'll take anything, only the Deciever has dealings with others and strategises.

 

1 Is there hard fluff telling us that the necrons made the pylons (as there are fluff hints about the eldar being the builders)

2 Why needing the pariah gene if one has the pylons?

3 Why no more pylons?

 

1. I refer back to Medusa V, did you ever actually read the Necron objective?

2. Pylons are designed to hold back Warp Storms, you can't easily starp one to a Tomb Ship or Monolith, a Pariah on the other hand can wander round freely.

3. I also refer back to Medusa V and also EoT.

 

 

Well you can doubt all you want but:

1 You still don´t have the fluff to support your belief

2 I have fluff that support that the emperor did it.

 

Oh yes...and 3, there is no differance betwen science and engeneering, from a goal oriented point of view (and the emperor was that) they both go side by side.

Engeneering builds on science, engeneerign cannot be corrupted without science being it first and fluff tells of the emperor to be uncorrupted not of ctans controlling the processes.

I´m sorry but you simply don´t have any backing other then your beliefs.

 

Refer to the first point, also, Science and Engineering are related but are also hugely different, just becasue you're good at one area of Science doesn't mean you're good at another area, I mean do you see Stephen Hakings going round trying to find a way to prevent the spread of HIV? Engineering is all about the construction of an object or device, Science provides the theory about how it works.

 

There might have been attempts (cortex cogitators) but that is not important, what is is that fluff tell of failed attempts and of teh conclusion that a living, sentient being with a special ability was needed to sucessfully steer a ship through the warp.

 

ctan have vastly better tech, they don´t need to use the warp at all to travel fast. The old ones and slann didn´t need it either so what, did the ctans corrupt the old ones and teach them it too:P

 

Just to clarify something, the Old Ones were the first thing ever to evolve into sentient beings, they then proceeded to create the other races, the C'tan evolved from radiation inside the Stars, the Necrontyr race itself created all the Technology they used, The C'tan know nothing about the Warp, they learnt about it form conflicts against the Olds Ones and from Necrontyr research, the point is that that is what the Emperor specialised in, the Warp and Genetics, he already had ships so he just stuck on the new engines, the Mechanicum then developed the ships used in 40k which were developed in the Golden age of Technology.

 

2 Then I ask you again, where is your fluff support that the ctans "helped" the emperor create the titans? The eldar and orks have titans as well, did the ctan corrupt those as well?

There is on the other hand fluff support of the emperor creating and/or leading the creation of the legions wargear.

There is a time to follow fluff and there is a time to blindly ignore it all to follow ones own wishes, which one do you follow?

 

The Orks and Eldar were created by the Old Ones, they are also more intelligent than Humans in their construction, well, maybe not the Orks but you never know ;) so don't compare them, the orks hammer stuff together, the Eldar use Titans which they built using their knowledge, the Imperium suddenly managed to develop huge war behemoths without any previous knowledge. Oh, and by the way, I follow the Background but try to view it form a non-imperial view, try to look at what might have caused confusion to them.

 

3 The throne was built before he became wounded and what makes you think the emperor needed a ctan advice to build the throne? It uses the warp and/or psychic force to sustain him, the ctans are hardly masters of the warp and psychic whichery.

Again, there is no fluff, not even vague hints hidden in secondary fluff that even remotedly support the throne being built by the ctan.

 

Again, you fail to see my point, the Emperor didn't hammer together the throne himself did he? It is quite easy to just change small little details which make all the difference.

 

-a corrupt AM having seen a ctan dream rants about the destruction of humanity.

 

He'd been captured and temporarily imprisoned in the Outsiders sphere if its the one i think you're talking about, all the other Adepts in the fluff speak the truth.

 

Well, that's all I can find at the moment, attempt to pick that apart and I might be inclined to bring in our most knowlegable person on this topic.

[Demonic D]

Pyriel... Its good to see you! :)

 

Quote me if I am wrong but does not the old fluff tells us that the mechaniucs did worship something ells before the emperor got there. I have heard it from time to time...

 

If am not to of track the Emperor struck a bargain with the Mechanius rather than unite... He needs the space ships and the tech to rebuild earth and send mankind out to space.

 

Yes I do understand your point of viue and its solid, yes but than again a necron player does not always solid fluff to back him up, why. Because Gw have not given us anything, so its is quite common that you will go for the most logical explanation...

 

And with do have four C´tan and four planets that is always showing up " Mars included, age of strife etc.

 

Sure the emperor was a great powerful guy but was he the greatest. We don’t know how powerful a C´tan was we just know that they are cool and old. And that’s does not really help so much when we talk about the fluff. They had to be more powerful before they went to bead than they are now.

 

Here is on of my own thought, we do know that the age of strife happen after the Golden agent something went really bad. I don’t think that the emperor destroyed his own empire, why should he. Now if the empire of mankind is destroying it self by uprising it does presume that the mechanics did the same thing as they did when the emperor unites earth. They collected tech. " What if they found the dragon or some part of him and took it him to Mars"

Or was the Dragon able to divert the eyes of the Emperor, " just a thought" Horus did. The emperor was not a god his was human...Horus Heresy

 

I know that people will say that " well what do you base that on " And I cant base so much so it will becomes a solid Fluff page" Because Gw have not writhen anything about it that give us a hit on what the hell it could be.... I have to go on what I have read and make my own. I need to use reason and logic.

Every one is entitle too there own option but when you are trying to talk about Necron fluff you often need to think outside the box... Just because people what to know, they dont settle with hafe trufth

 

AND yes Necrotyr: Try harder, please don’t burn yourself out. Tells us about the fluff or make your statement logical towards the fluff...

[Necrontyr]

Very Well;

 

'Visions of the Sleeping god'

This is a short bit of Background about Abbadon questioning a deamon who reveals a) That a Sleeping God lies on Mars and :) 'The Traitor Marines saw a great chamber of basalt, around it towering machines ofantique silver strectched ndlessly upward. Set in the floor was a vast sarcophagus of adamantium and gold. From each of the Machines in turn a flickering beam of unimaginable energy flowed in a glittering arc to the Sarcophagus'

 

'Eldar artifact'

'The Vaul-Moon shall bring forth the Dragon' with the Imperial sidenote 'Vaul is the Eldar god of the forge, a far cry form the machine god worshipped by the Adeptus Mechanicus, this blasphemous being is crippled physically as well as spiritually. The Vaul-moon could be the Eldar equivalent of a forge world'

 

And with do have four C´tan and four planets that is always showing up " Mars included, age of strife etc.

Sorry to be picky but it's four C'tan, three planets and a huge Sphere around a red dwarf.

 

Just tell me if you need anything else clearing up.

[Demonic D]

Sorry to be picky but it's four C'tan, three planets and a huge Sphere around a red dwarf.

Just tell me if you need anything else clearing up.

 

 

1 2 3 planets and a sphere make 4: No I okay... That much better.. :)

[Necrontyr]

It's a big metal sphere around a sun, I don't think that counts as a Planet... :lol:

 

Oh, if any of you want to check up on your background or have found the debate so far to be really interesting them head over to the CSG! (This isn't advertising... of course not, it's just so people can do a bit of background reading...)

 

http://www.pwl-tech.co.uk/csg/index.php

[Darth_Lunchbox]

Yeah the Dyson Shpere that a Tyranid Hive Fleet is currently avoiding which is quite strange, maybe the outsiders madnees can affect hive mind?

[Necrontyr]

The reason why they avoid the 'Dyson Sphere' is that the Tyranids don't sense anyhting is there, it's a Psychic null, exactly the same as Pariahs or the Necron pylons.

[Pyriel]

YOu misunderstand my point, the Dragon wouldn't gain control of them, he just dills their minds with ideas, ok, let's say that the Techpreists are like composers, the Dragon doesn't fill their minds with what they should write and force them to write it, instead he gives them the inspiration, that final little chord which makes the piece work. Text referance to the fact that the Dragon imparted the knowledge to the Imperium, page 4 of the Necron Codex, it says that the great knowledge was given to them by the Omnissiah, not the Emperor

To fill peoples minds with ideas and steer them towards what one wants is to corrupt them and nowhere in any fluff does it say that the Emperor was corrupted or steered by weird dreams etc.

Follow fluff and don´t "belive" there are truths there just because you have a hard time with the emperor designing a terminator armour.

 

Please refer to it as 'Living Metal', otherwise I might get annoyed by saying that you should check your own background info.

Read the UM books yourself.

The arm was made of "necron" meltal that responded to the marine and self repaired and also bonded with him on a subconsious plane.

 

The Nightbringer doesn't even care about the Dragon, he's hungry, he'll take anything, only the Deciever has dealings with others and strategises.

Is this written fluff or your personal beliefs?

What is written though is that the ctan killed each others of till there were few left.

To say the few left all of a sudden dont care abuot the others is a very illogical statement.

 

1. I refer back to Medusa V, did you ever actually read the Necron objective?

2. Pylons are designed to hold back Warp Storms, you can't easily starp one to a Tomb Ship or Monolith, a Pariah on the other hand can wander round freely.

3. I also refer back to Medusa V and also EoT.

1 Yes.

2 Why not, is it explicitally written in the fluff? ...no it is not, it´s just your personal "beliefs" again.

3 Yes.

 

Besides, the foremost error one can do in interpreting fluff is to take only one or a few sources (as you did based on how little you seem to know about the peripheral things) and claim it to be universal truth.

And even wors (that you also do) is to take even that and fabricate personal non fluff supported beliefs on this and later claim that "this is how the necron players consider things to be".

You just made a cardinal sin. Do again, do right.

 

Refer to the first point, also, Science and Engineering are related but are also hugely different, just becasue you're good at one area of Science doesn't mean you're good at another area, I mean do you see Stephen Hakings going round trying to find a way to prevent the spread of HIV? Engineering is all about the construction of an object or device, Science provides the theory about how it works.

Moot point.

1 engeneering is also strictly factioned. A bridge engeneer does not walk around building high end computer chips.

2 Engeneering relies on and is based upon a particular and corresponding branch of science.

 

You still haevn´t prooven you point. all you do is sneak past is claiming your non fluff based beliefs and personal preferences are de facto true.

 

YOU are the one comin in here claiming a ton of things about the dragon and necrons as well as what, how and when teh emperor did various things...it is thus up to YOU to lay forth teh fluff support and proof for this rather then attack me challenging your personal beliefs and claims that this is what necron players think.

 

The debate is fun but please sieze to fool around and give me some hard written fluff to support every crazy thing you say.

For example the day you point me to the appropriate fluff quote that the ctan made the emperor build the titans, TDA etc that day I will accept your beliefs for something more them personal wishes.

It´s that simple.

 

the Imperium suddenly managed to develop huge war behemoths without any previous knowledge. Oh, and by the way, I follow the Background but try to view it form a non-imperial view, try to look at what might have caused confusion to them.

I´m sorry but again, the only thing you do is to bring forth your personal beliefs and wishes and nowhere do I se fluff support and proof of this.

 

On the other hand the age of wonders where our tech took a quantum leap lasted for 5000 years and still after that many other things like TDA were invented.

Even today 2007, we are toying with the ideas of power armour and fiction titans so the titans were hardly somehting that stprang forth over night:)

 

But again, you choose to belive in a ctan planting the idea tehre since humans surely are too stupid to do it themselves while the orks are smart enough, geez.

If you want to be taken at face value point towards the exact fluff quote that supports and underlines you own beliefs.

 

Again, you fail to see my point, the Emperor didn't hammer together the throne himself did he? It is quite easy to just change small little details which make all the difference.

Fluff says he did not that he didn´t...but your very personal beliefs say he didnt. Now who/what should I belive in?

Want a hint?

 

Well, that's all I can find at the moment, attempt to pick that apart and I might be inclined to bring in our most knowlegable person on this topic.

I already picked you apart together with your undies.

You have absolutely nothing in teh form of fluff support to cover your claims that the emperor didn´t construct his throne and TDA armour etc etc etc etc.

All you do is stubbornly like a child refuse to listen to established fluff but instead keep rambling on how you "belive this and belive that".

 

Bring in the guy as there are holes in my necron knowledge that a well beread person with actual fluff backing might help me to fill but until then I see no point in telling fluff to someone who blatantly dissregards it in favour for personal beliefs.

 

Pyriel... Its good to see you! msn-wink.gif

Darwid! Long time no see.

Yes it´s good to se myself albeit the mirror tells me to pick up jogging again :teehee:

 

Quote me if I am wrong but does not the old fluff tells us that the mechaniucs did worship something ells before the emperor got there. I have heard it from time to time...

Yes but fluff also tells that the AMs omnisiah is the same thing as teh emperor.

since the emperor knew all (technical) then he was worth worshipping as the omnisiah.

 

Fluff that tells both A and B is to be read carefuly not like necrontyr does, to be dissected where teh parts he doesn´t like are thrown away and left are half baked fluff and personal beliefs.

 

This is a short bit of Background about Abbadon questioning a deamon who reveals a) That a Sleeping God lies on Mars and cool.gif 'The Traitor Marines saw a great chamber of basalt, around it towering machines ofantique silver strectched ndlessly upward. Set in the floor was a vast sarcophagus of adamantium and gold. From each of the Machines in turn a flickering beam of unimaginable energy flowed in a glittering arc to the Sarcophagus'

That the dragon lies on mars is so well hinted that it´s probably so (but not entirely).

 

BUT...You are forgetting to calm your own fervent beliefs and wishes by some well needed critical thinking.

So abbaddon spoke with a deamon, wery well...

What else is teh fluff telling us several times?

Deamons CANNOT be trusted and will try to tell half truths whenever they can, all and every contact with a deamon will be as much in the deamons favour as possible (it´s the deamons wish).

Total power over a deamon is obtained only if the deamons true name is known and such was not the case with abbaddon.

Thus, be critical of your fluff sources as well.

 

'The Vaul-Moon shall bring forth the Dragon' with the Imperial sidenote 'Vaul is the Eldar god of the forge, a far cry form the machine god worshipped by the Adeptus Mechanicus, this blasphemous being is crippled physically as well as spiritually. The Vaul-moon could be the Eldar equivalent of a forge world'

A very good fluff hint! There is little doubt to that some AM worship something otehr then the pure form of the omnisiah.

However, nowhere does it say "all" or "majority" or even "significant numbers".

 

Taking such hints as personally interpreted truths is just as wrong as saying " a far cry from war mongering republicans" and interpret this as a fact that republicans are just that.

 

Sorry to be picky but it's four C'tan, three planets and a huge Sphere around a red dwarf.

 

Just tell me if you need anything else clearing up.

My background knowledge of numbers of planets is weak.

Help me out on this, how many planets are oficcially known to be "it" and what exactly is "necron" about them?

 

I have never read anything concrete about the sphere, is there such fluff or is it only that little vague hint that really doesn´t tell anything signigicant about the sphere?

 

It's a big metal sphere around a sun, I don't think that counts as a Planet... tongue.gif

The description of it...is it closer to a body orbiting said star or is is something that could more closely be interpreted as a so called "Dyson Sphere"?

 

The reason why they avoid the 'Dyson Sphere' is that the Tyranids don't sense anyhting is there, it's a Psychic null, exactly the same as Pariahs or the Necron pylons.

Is this explicitally written or is this a personal belief?

[Captain Idaho]

Is this explicitally written or is this a personal belief?

 

its not explicitly written, but it is common sense that there is a psychic null there. the hive mind cannont exist without the warp as it is not a material thing, therefore the only reason the hive mind wouldnt go somewhere would be a problem with the warp.

 

however, i have never found anything that tells us/hints at the dyson sphere. in fact, where has it been called the dyson sphere! the only info is at the back of the back of the necron codex as far as i can find.

 

i love necron fluff so please point me in the right direction if you know what official source it is in.

[Mechanicus]

To fill peoples minds with ideas and steer them towards what one wants is to corrupt them and nowhere in any fluff does it say that the Emperor was corrupted or steered by weird dreams etc.

Is there a source you can point me to that shows the Emperor designing Terminator Armour? I was under the impression the AdMech did that, since it was completed near the end of the Crusade, near when the Emperor went to Terra to start work on his "secret project".

 

Read the UM books yourself.

The arm was made of "necron" meltal that responded to the marine and self repaired and also bonded with him on a subconsious plane.

Living metal is Necrodermis, Necrodermis is living metal.

What is written though is that the ctan killed each others of till there were few left.

To say the few left all of a sudden dont care abuot the others is a very illogical statement.

And yet in the history of the Necrons, when they faced a serious threat, they teamed up. (P26 Necron Codex) The Deceiver, as we know, has discovered that he needs the help of the other C'tan (Necron Codex, pg 31). :)

 

2 Why not, is it explicitally written in the fluff? ...no it is not, it´s just your personal "beliefs" again.

The pariah gene is useful for a different purpose than Pylons. Pylons hold back the warp (evidenced by the null-shield on Medusa V, and the recent growths of Pylons on the Sentinel Worlds and around the Eye of Terror). Pariahs are in humanity alone, it seems, and since humanity has been talked about by an Eldar farseer with the phrase "Legends said that the Devoured Ones had sown a terrible crop in ages past. Now it was growing to fruition and the harvesters were being readied", coupled with the C'tan's dislike of the warp would suggest that the Pariahs are an attempt to rid humanity of psykers and the warp, since they are seen as slave races by the C'tan. Why would the C'tan want slaves with the power that is anathema to them?

 

Fluff says he did not that he didn´t...but your very personal beliefs say he didnt. Now who/what should I belive in?

Want a hint?

HH Artbook Volume II states that the Emperor went back to Terra and built the Golden Throne with the aid of the Imperium's scientists (Probably the Imperium's best, considering he could requisition what he wanted), and thousands of Imperial workers. It makes no mention of the Emperor's skill, or the scientists' skills. To assume either being supreme is premature without further information.

 

Yes but fluff also tells that the AMs omnisiah is the same thing as teh emperor.

since the emperor knew all (technical) then he was worth worshipping as the omnisiah.

Codex Titanicus (1990's era, not 1989 version) does claim that the Emperor was worshipped as the "Long awaited Omnissiah of Cult Legend". Taking into account other background - with the references to a "far older power" worshipped on Mars, and the Archmagi rebellion, it is possible that the "Omnissiah of cult legend" was meant to be the Void Dragon, but the Emperor got their first. Just a thought. :) As an aside, the Omnissiah and Machine God were originally separate entities (Omnissiah as messiah, Machine God as God), but these two seem to have merged into a single entity. Much as I loath to make real world references, it is not unlike Jesus and God in certain Christian beliefs.

 

So abbaddon spoke with a deamon, wery well...

What else is teh fluff telling us several times?

Deamons CANNOT be trusted and will try to tell half truths whenever they can, all and every contact with a deamon will be as much in the deamons favour as possible (it´s the deamons wish).

Total power over a deamon is obtained only if the deamons true name is known and such was not the case with abbaddon.

Thus, be critical of your fluff sources as well.

"Hrangore, spirit of the warp, I command you in the name of the Four Powers to speak" ;)

 

There is little doubt to that some AM worship something otehr then the pure form of the omnisiah.

However, nowhere does it say "all" or "majority" or even "significant numbers".

Most of these cultists likely reside on Mars ("Take me to Mars, then we'll see who's the guilty one!" and "There are more of us than you can imagine, many more". Though that last one is suspect, I felt I might as well type it up).

 

Help me out on this, how many planets are oficcially known to be "it" and what exactly is "necron" about them?

I take it you mean C'tan Tomb Worlds? Naogeddon is heavily hinted at to be the Deceiver's Tomb, Pavonis is stated, Mars is heavily hinted, and Lyriax (Outsider's sphere) is also heavily hinted to be the Outsider's sphere. They all have small tombs; barring Lyriax, obviously.

 

I have never read anything concrete about the sphere, is there such fluff or is it only that little vague hint that really doesn´t tell anything signigicant about the sphere?

The sphere seems to be 1.04 AU in diameter, which is roughly half what a normal "dyson sphere" would be (Normally, a dyson sphere has a radius of 1 AU). A dyson sphere is an artificial construct around a star to collect energy. Given that living metal requires energy to grow, and the C'tan can feed of electromagnetic energy such as the stars give out, it may be a possibility in terms of purpose.

 

Is this explicitally written or is this a personal belief?

Hinted. See the letter in the background of page 64 of the Necron Codex, the prophecy (Section on the Outsider) on page 63, and the similar phrases about geometry.

 

Just to point it out; I can see some of these messages becoming more heated than they are already, so it's better to calm this down now than to let it get any further. If you think someone is wrong, it's generally best to just point it out, or ask for a source for their information. No one's perfect, and if you do feel someone is in the wrong, it's probably not advisable to respond in a way where it could get to personal insults being used. It's all to easy to let it escalate to levels where mods have to get involved. Sorry - had to get that off my chest. :)

[Necrontyr]

To fill peoples minds with ideas and steer them towards what one wants is to corrupt them and nowhere in any fluff does it say that the Emperor was corrupted or steered by weird dreams etc.

Follow fluff and don´t "belive" there are truths there just because you have a hard time with the emperor designing a terminator armour.

 

You still don't seem to understand, the Emperor did not pick up all the tools to build the technology, even if he had come up with it he still got others to build, and changing one tiny little detail can make all the difference, like in Computer programming.

 

QUOTE

Please refer to it as 'Living Metal', otherwise I might get annoyed by saying that you should check your own background info.

 

Read the UM books yourself.

The arm was made of "necron" meltal that responded to the marine and self repaired and also bonded with him on a subconsious plane.

 

Yes but Necron Metal is Living Metal, it's what it's called, not Necrondermis, that's a vessel which contains the essence of a star god.

 

Is this written fluff or your personal beliefs?

What is written though is that the ctan killed each others of till there were few left.

To say the few left all of a sudden dont care abuot the others is a very illogical statement.

 

There is background to say that the Nightbringer is hungry and anyway, there is NOTHING to say that the Nightbringer uses strategies, and anyway, only the Outsider and the Nightbringer killed the other C'tan, the Deciever wouldn't kill the Dragon because he needs him to help fight the Nightbringer.

 

1 Yes.

2 Why not, is it explicitally written in the fluff? ...no it is not, it´s just your personal "beliefs" again.

3 Yes.

 

Besides, the foremost error one can do in interpreting fluff is to take only one or a few sources (as you did based on how little you seem to know about the peripheral things) and claim it to be universal truth.

And even wors (that you also do) is to take even that and fabricate personal non fluff supported beliefs on this and later claim that "this is how the necron players consider things to be".

You just made a cardinal sin. Do again, do right.

 

Fine then 2. Look back at Medusa V, Necron objective sort of makes sense when it says that they were to build Pylons to hold back the Warp Storm doesn't it? Oh,a nd in the Chaos Codex it says the Necorn Pylons held back the Cadian gate and stopped it from expanding.

 

I´m sorry but again, the only thing you do is to bring forth your personal beliefs and wishes and nowhere do I se fluff support and proof of this.

 

On the other hand the age of wonders where our tech took a quantum leap lasted for 5000 years and still after that many other things like TDA were invented.

Even today 2007, we are toying with the ideas of power armour and fiction titans so the titans were hardly somehting that stprang forth over night:)

 

But again, you choose to belive in a ctan planting the idea tehre since humans surely are too stupid to do it themselves while the orks are smart enough, geez.

If you want to be taken at face value point towards the exact fluff quote that supports and underlines you own beliefs.

 

I would point out that 40k is fictional and in a different universe which just happens to have the same place names, do you think the 40k universe had a load of Sci-Fi stuff which talks about Titans? I'd like to see the proof of that please. The thing you fail to miss with the Orks is a) I intended it as a JOKE, you know, something to liven up the debate and b.) Orks don't really use that much advanced technology with their titans, they just sort of stuck a few things that worked together and off it goes, their Titans don't tend to link to the Commanders mind...

 

I already picked you apart together with your undies.

You have absolutely nothing in teh form of fluff support to cover your claims that the emperor didn´t construct his throne and TDA armour etc etc etc etc.

All you do is stubbornly like a child refuse to listen to established fluff but instead keep rambling on how you "belive this and belive that".

 

Bring in the guy as there are holes in my necron knowledge that a well beread person with actual fluff backing might help me to fill but until then I see no point in telling fluff to someone who blatantly dissregards it in favour for personal beliefs.

 

I would actually like to see a piece of Background that says that the Emperor himself, with no help came up wiht TDA and his throne. I do not act as a Child, I act as someone who doesn't take things at face value, it's all about ANALYSING, looking for hidden meanings, remember, GW wrote a lot of this stuff to probably spark off debates like this, and no, I'm not going to find a Text reference for that statement.

 

That the dragon lies on mars is so well hinted that it´s probably so (but not entirely).

 

BUT...You are forgetting to calm your own fervent beliefs and wishes by some well needed critical thinking.

So abbaddon spoke with a deamon, wery well...

What else is teh fluff telling us several times?

Deamons CANNOT be trusted and will try to tell half truths whenever they can, all and every contact with a deamon will be as much in the deamons favour as possible (it´s the deamons wish).

Total power over a deamon is obtained only if the deamons true name is known and such was not the case with abbaddon.

Thus, be critical of your fluff sources as well.

 

Oh sorry, I seem to have accidently forgot to quote the rest of the source, or rather one line in particular :)

'Hrangore, Spirit of the warp, I command you in the name of the four powers'

I really shouldn't be so careless, letting you walk into the fact that I know when the fluff is right...

 

A very good fluff hint! There is little doubt to that some AM worship something otehr then the pure form of the omnisiah.

However, nowhere does it say "all" or "majority" or even "significant numbers".

 

Taking such hints as personally interpreted truths is just as wrong as saying " a far cry from war mongering republicans" and interpret this as a fact that republicans are just that.

 

The Phrase Adeptus Mechanicus tends to refer to the enitre group, it's like saying that the British Public have a Monarch.

 

My background knowledge of numbers of planets is weak.

Help me out on this, how many planets are oficcially known to be "it" and what exactly is "necron" about them?

 

I have never read anything concrete about the sphere, is there such fluff or is it only that little vague hint that really doesn´t tell anything signigicant about the sphere?

 

It is reffering to C'tan, Star Vampires, ever heard of them?

 

And by Necorn, the Four celestial objects have all got C'tan Stasis tombs in them, you can find a starmap with all the known Necron tombworlds on on the GW website. Oh and you'd know if somewhere was a Necorn tombworld, tends to have huge giant pyramids with sigils on, you can't miss them really...

 

The description of it...is it closer to a body orbiting said star or is is something that could more closely be interpreted as a so called "Dyson Sphere"?

 

It is a big Metal orb with a sun in the middle, it's basically acting like a C'tan recharge facility, you can feast on an entire star without any of it escaping.

 

Is this explicitally written or is this a personal belief?

 

It's a known fact that the Hive Mind directs the Tyranid Hive Fleets, the Hive Mind looks for an objects shadow in the warp and tells the fleets to go there, the only reason they'd avoid an object is if the Hive Mind couldn't detect it.

 

Oh, one last point, the guy I spoke about I've contacted, he hasn't replied yet, I'd also be grateful if you'd check some of your spelling and grammar, I can just about understand what you say but some of it's confusing...

 

 

 

Hey wow, thanks Mechanicus, you basically answered the same points, with some Textual evidence. Ladies and Gentlemen, Space Marines and People who don't understand what a Theory or Hypothesis is, I rpesent to you Mechanicus, the undisputed master of Necron knowledge.

[Pyriel]

Is there a source you can point me to that shows the Emperor designing Terminator Armour? I was under the impression the AdMech did that, since it was completed near the end of the Crusade, near when the Emperor went to Terra to start work on his "secret project".

unfortunately no, I consider myself to be extremely well beread when it comes to fluff (old and new) and due to the large amounts that I read it is impossible for me to point out exactly what book and page I quote all teh times without giving up on my private life to only sit looking through tons of fluff material.

 

I have absolutely nothing to win by lying and everything to loose and when I say that I read certain fluff I can tell if that was official fluff, BL fluff, vague hints based on either of this fluff or logical conclusions based on personal beliefs.

The perfect test to this is if someone else comes in and remembers having read the same thing (but as not the whole board resides on this thread that can be a bit hard).

 

Sure I can be wrong since every person can remember wrong etc but I´m paranoidly careful about this and I´m also 100% sure about reading fluff of which I am talking about so I assure you there are no deliberate attempts to missled you just because I would want to save face or anything stupid like that.

 

About the emperor designing TDA there is no explicit fluff as far as I know but neither is tehre any fluff about the ctan influencing the process that lead to the TDA or titans, far from it.

What is in the old official fluff is the emperor, being a man of science and logic, uniting mars and terra and making the AM worship him as their omnisiah (as he knew everything he was the ultimate depository of knowledge and thus the ultimate object worthy of worship).

Fluff also tells that he created the legions and the wargear (of course he didn´t do it alone, logic dictates that he must have been working together with the AM in some advanced lab).

 

I also remember old fluff where the emperor saw the future and knew that mankind must spread to the stars in order to survive and that he saw and knew the minds of people he dealt with.

Thus is was impossible to decieve him and would there be the slightest corruption (as in worshipping otehr "gods") then he would be aware of that.

This, not explicit fluff points towards him dealing with AM that were pure and not dream-steered by a ctan.

 

At least the opposite hints are way weaker then this.

There is also no fluff what so ever to support titans etc being the fruit of ctan knowledge. In fact logic and fluff hints point in teh very opposite direction and this is also the reason I got frustrated in talking with persons that simply do not care about this but instead push what they wish to be true forward.

 

Living metal is Necrodermis, Necrodermis is living metal.

My point exactly. Pasanius out of nowhere (kinda) got a hand made of this stuff and it bonded with him and served him well till it was removed by force. Nowhere was it even hinted that it corrupted him...thus assuming that Ferrus woudl have been corrupted is really not following occhams razor.

Ergo: I find it juvenile and do not view it seriously.

 

And yet in the history of the Necrons, when they faced a serious threat, they teamed up. (P26 Necron Codex) The Deceiver, as we know, has discovered that he needs the help of the other C'tan (Necron Codex, pg 31). smile.gif

Absolutely but I deliberatedly left this out since "today" there is no threat to the ctan and thus no reason what so ever for them to cooperate.

On the contrary, this is a "new start" for the ctans and as in every new start the first person to grab a handful of gold gets the most benefits (thus a competitive envirioment).

 

The pariah gene is useful for a different purpose than Pylons. Pylons hold back the warp (evidenced by the null-shield on Medusa V, and the recent growths of Pylons on the Sentinel Worlds and around the Eye of Terror). Pariahs are in humanity alone, it seems, and since humanity has been talked about by an Eldar farseer with the phrase "Legends said that the Devoured Ones had sown a terrible crop in ages past. Now it was growing to fruition and the harvesters were being readied", coupled with the C'tan's dislike of the warp would suggest that the Pariahs are an attempt to rid humanity of psykers and the warp, since they are seen as slave races by the C'tan. Why would the C'tan want slaves with the power that is anathema to them?

Exactly, fluff hints to pariahs being a deliberate attempt by teh ctan to use as a weapon against psychic races.

BUT...

There is explicit fluff saying that the eldar know about this and also about the location (in the imperium) where the largest and strongest concentration of pariahs is hidden and yet they choose not to strike destroying it since all eldar divinations tell of a very bad furure for themselves shuold they do so.

 

Kinda contradoctionary but also pointing towards the fact that all things are not what they seem to be or that the ctan project maybe has flaws in it.

 

HH Artbook Volume II states that the Emperor went back to Terra and built the Golden Throne with the aid of the Imperium's scientists (Probably the Imperium's best, considering he could requisition what he wanted), and thousands of Imperial workers. It makes no mention of the Emperor's skill, or the scientists' skills. To assume either being supreme is premature without further information.

And this is what I assumed.

That "he" built it does of course not mean that he did it alone but as supervisor of the project.

And as such he led and managed the work.

There are also in fact fluff references to exactly what he was building on terra in secrecy besides the throne (more things then the webway exploration) and there are also several contradicting fluff passages telling of the building of the throne at different times.

 

Codex Titanicus (1990's era, not 1989 version) does claim that the Emperor was worshipped as the "Long awaited Omnissiah of Cult Legend". Taking into account other background - with the references to a "far older power" worshipped on Mars, and the Archmagi rebellion, it is possible that the "Omnissiah of cult legend" was meant to be the Void Dragon, but the Emperor got their first. Just a thought. smile.gif As an aside, the Omnissiah and Machine God were originally separate entities (Omnissiah as messiah, Machine God as God), but these two seem to have merged into a single entity. Much as I loath to make real world references, it is not unlike Jesus and God in certain Christian beliefs.

Yes there are three different fluffs telling about the omnisiah.

My point is which one do we follow?

It is wrong to follow just one since it can be wrong, all fluff must be considered.

Or the various fluff tell about various AM factions, some (the low caste) worshipping the dragon as omnisiah, some (teh high) worshipping the emperor and everything in between.

 

But still, nowhere as I know it are there hints about major imperial tech being a result from ctan manipulation.

 

"Hrangore, spirit of the warp, I command you in the name of the Four Powers to speak" msn-wink.gif

Doesn´t mean anything!

Deamons have many names:)

 

Eisenhorn called cherubael, quixos called prophaniti and still both tried to kill their masters (not true names).

 

Also all deamon true names (GK books) are unpronounceble in human tongue unless effort is made to spell them out:P

 

"There are more of us than you can imagine, many more". Though that last one is suspect, I felt I might as well type it up).

...says every prisoner to worry his captors or boost his own courage or find solace in imaginary thought of revenge.

 

I take it you mean C'tan Tomb Worlds? Naogeddon is heavily hinted at to be the Deceiver's Tomb, Pavonis is stated, Mars is heavily hinted, and Lyriax (Outsider's sphere) is also heavily hinted to be the Outsider's sphere. They all have small tombs; barring Lyriax, obviously.

Didn´t know, thanks:)

Where is Lyriax situated?

 

(Normally, a dyson sphere has a radius of 1 AU).

There is no "normal" radii to a Dyson Sphere as all suns vary in mass and radiation output as well as type.

 

Just to point it out; I can see some of these messages becoming more heated than they are already, so it's better to calm this down now than to let it get any further. If you think someone is wrong, it's generally best to just point it out, or ask for a source for their information. No one's perfect, and if you do feel someone is in the wrong, it's probably not advisable to respond in a way where it could get to personal insults being used. It's all to easy to let it escalate to levels where mods have to get involved. Sorry - had to get that off my chest. smile.gif

I see no personal insults.

I alreasy tried with the pointing-to-fluff but only got the "I don´t belive" response back.

It´s fun to talk to you as you have fluff of varying degrees to poit to as well as the ability to separare fluff from hints from conclusions and where you cannot (due to lack of remembrance) point out to the exact source I trust you and take your words for it:)

 

 

 

You still don't seem to understand, the Emperor did not pick up all the tools to build the technology, even if he had come up with it he still got others to build, and changing one tiny little detail can make all the difference, like in Computer programming.

Sure I understand that.

You still don´t seem to understand my point, tehre is N O fluff supporting this.

Look at your own repeated words..."I do not belive this and that thus it has to be so".

That is not a something we base debate on here, look at mechanicus last post and learn from it.

 

There is background to say that the Nightbringer is hungry and anyway, there is NOTHING to say that the Nightbringer uses strategies, and anyway, only the Outsider and the Nightbringer killed the other C'tan, the Deciever wouldn't kill the Dragon because he needs him to help fight the Nightbringer.

Read my reply to mechanicus on this.

 

Besides there is insuficcient fluff to cover all the aspects of personality for the ctans.

What we have are logical conclusions.

Do you really belive a being (amongst many other super beings) survive and becomes sucessful for so long by only using stupid brute force never planning ahead? I do not. Sure he likes to swing his club and be all medeval but that is insufficient to bring him to where he is today.

 

Fine then 2. Look back at Medusa V, Necron objective sort of makes sense when it says that they were to build Pylons to hold back the Warp Storm doesn't it? Oh,a nd in the Chaos Codex it says the Necorn Pylons held back the Cadian gate and stopped it from expanding.

 

I´m sorry but again, the only thing you do is to bring forth your personal beliefs and wishes and nowhere do I se fluff support and proof of this.

Well my personal beliefs are that the necrons built the pylons.

Older fluff hints that some otehr race might have done so as well (thus I choose to be careful)

 

About who follows personal wishes rather then fluff there is no question about, please point me out to the explicit fluff that tells of the dragon planting dreams that lead the emperor with his scientists to creaste titans and TDA!!!

After you have done that then you can sit on your high horse claiming I have personal beliefs.

 

I would point out that 40k is fictional and in a different universe which just happens to have the same place names, do you think the 40k universe had a load of Sci-Fi stuff which talks about Titans? I'd like to see the proof of that please. The thing you fail to miss with the Orks is a) I intended it as a JOKE, you know, something to liven up the debate and b.) Orks don't really use that much advanced technology with their titans, they just sort of stuck a few things that worked together and off it goes, their Titans don't tend to link to the Commanders mind...

 

Nope, your own words...

Titans and TDA are so advanced that the emperor could not possibly have invented them without help.

"I don´t belive etc etc" "dragon must have placed teh tech in to teh minds of humans etc etc".

 

You just painted yourself into a nice corner, please provide me with fluff references (you claim you provide) to this and also make up your mind about the tech, either titans are super advanced or they are not that advanced, you can´t have both.

And also, when someone starts to blame 40k as a scifi universe to defend ones own claims then things have fallen down pretty far ;)

 

I would actually like to see a piece of Background that says that the Emperor himself, with no help came up wiht TDA and his throne.

Read my answers to mechanicus.

 

Besides you claim bold things then you should provide fluff proof!

Especially after claiming that "you necron players think this way".

 

Do as mechanicus, drop the personal wishes and get real, follow fluff, accept being wrong when you are and learn to differentiate between fluff, hints, conclusions and personal wishes (I don´t belive...) and you will recieve due respect.

 

'Hrangore, Spirit of the warp, I command you in the name of the four powers'

I really shouldn't be so careless, letting you walk into the fact that I know when the fluff is right...

You dont!

I know about hrangore...read my reply to mechanicus and you´ll learn why I never had to take up hrangore.

Had you known your fluff you would have understood that and kept quiet and saved some dignity.

But instead you choose to gloat about you thinking you are right and I not since you knew one step of the fluff but you didn´t realise there were three other steps following that I and apparently not you, knew about.

 

A hint to you would be to carefully think something through when you see me apparently walking into your oh so obvious traps *sigh*. You just don´t have enough background read to do such silly things and get away with them.

 

But I also made misstaken regarding to this I admit, I made the misstake to assume that other people know all the small fluff things that are interconnected (your juvenile hrangore gloating would be a nice example) an thus I do not state all the small facts that concern a given subject. Maybe I should start doing that in the future so that you understand better and get the bigger picture to fluff things.

 

Oh I almost forgot ...:P

 

The Phrase Adeptus Mechanicus tends to refer to the enitre group, it's like saying that the British Public have a Monarch.

Still wrong as said phrase can easely be twisted into "the brittish public like monarchs".

 

It is reffering to C'tan, Star Vampires, ever heard of them?

Dont patronise me or I might do that to you and your feeble knowledge of other fluff leading to your failed, pathetic attempts of showing of (hrangore).

 

And by Necorn, the Four celestial objects have all got C'tan Stasis tombs in them, you can find a starmap with all the known Necron tombworlds on on the GW website. Oh and you'd know if somewhere was a Necorn tombworld, tends to have huge giant pyramids with sigils on, you can't miss them really...

I understand you are embarassed and strike out against me but please look at mechanicus answer to my question.

-He understood the magnitude of my fluff knowledge.

-He didn´t patronise.

-He didn´t gloat.

-He had the sense of integrity to realise other people might know some fluff better then he does himself (thus avoiding to make a fool out of himself with his version of the "hrangore" reply)

-He politedly replied to my polite (please) inquiery of how many planets are known to have necron toombs.

-He understood that I am a fluff nut too and would I want to I could have found out the same information myself but by politedly providing me with it he saved me some time digging through codexi.

 

This makes me respect him and regard him as a grownup with self asteem.

And no matter if he will eventually strongly dissagree with me on something in the future I will still like and respect him very much.

 

It's a known fact that the Hive Mind directs the Tyranid Hive Fleets, the Hive Mind looks for an objects shadow in the warp and tells the fleets to go there, the only reason they'd avoid an object is if the Hive Mind couldn't detect it.

Yes and no.

Again you make the same misstake.

The fact is that they avoid objects they can´t see (or they just miss them) but nowhere is it stated that it is the only reason.

As far as we know they may also avoid objects because they fear them (or calculate the outcome from a confrontation to be unfavorable)

 

I'd also be grateful if you'd check some of your spelling and grammar, I can just about understand what you say but some of it's confusing...

I´d be grateful if you stopped being a hypocrite. After all you seem to have no problem what so ever reading Demonic D´s posts.

 

Hey wow, thanks Mechanicus, you basically answered the same points, with some Textual evidence. Ladies and Gentlemen, Space Marines and People who don't understand what a Theory or Hypothesis is, I rpesent to you Mechanicus, the undisputed master of Necron knowledge.

I understand you are glad that he came and saved your behind but his poits are answered and before you embarass yourself again you might as well study and learn from his way of answering and replying and maybe you too will experiance some mutual respect in the future.

Now go find fluff that support your personal beliefs...I´m still waiting for it.

[Divergent Reality]

Dont patronise me or I might do that to you and your feeble knowledge of other fluff leading to your failed, pathetic attempts of showing of (hrangore).

 

walking behind someone and pulling their hair is just as annoying as walking up to them and slapping them in the face. even if you slip the insults in in the middle of a well put arguement, they are still that. insults.

 

edit:

missed a word in the copy...

[Necrontyr]

Delete Please

[Necrontyr]

I do respect you for being concerned about Text references, but us Necron Players tend to do an awful lot of Theorizing due to the small amount of background we have, also this is what the point of this thread is, to come up with Theories. I do think you're a bit juvnelile yourself for a) Refusing to accept anything other than what is written might be possible and b.) You seem to complain about manners when you don't really use them yourself, when we actually give you a piece of Background, the Hrangore' bit, you just blast it out of the water even though it's what you want! who says Abbadon can't speak deamon! I also politely answered your question to how many worlds with Necron tombs on by directing you to the GW starmap, the last bit of the post was just a bit of light hearted humour, it was not meant to be patronising at all, it was just said generally in respect to anyone that a Necron tombworld tends to have Necron structures on! I do also know the magnitude of your knowledge of Background, i just think you rely on it far to much, closing your mind to other points of view. With Mechanicus I brought him in because I know my knowledge of Necron background is as good as other peoples.

 

(Oh and the reason I didn't complain about Deamonic D's spelling because he's already been talked to about it by the CSG admin team)

[Mechanicus]

unfortunately no, I consider myself to be extremely well beread when it comes to fluff (old and new) and due to the large amounts that I read it is impossible for me to point out exactly what book and page I quote all teh times without giving up on my private life to only sit looking through tons of fluff material.

 

I have absolutely nothing to win by lying and everything to loose and when I say that I read certain fluff I can tell if that was official fluff, BL fluff, vague hints based on either of this fluff or logical conclusions based on personal beliefs.

The perfect test to this is if someone else comes in and remembers having read the same thing (but as not the whole board resides on this thread that can be a bit hard).

 

Sure I can be wrong since every person can remember wrong etc but I´m paranoidly careful about this and I´m also 100% sure about reading fluff of which I am talking about so I assure you there are no deliberate attempts to missled you just because I would want to save face or anything stupid like that.

 

About the emperor designing TDA there is no explicit fluff as far as I know but neither is tehre any fluff about the ctan influencing the process that lead to the TDA or titans, far from it.

I see.

 

What is in the old official fluff is the emperor, being a man of science and logic, uniting mars and terra and making the AM worship him as their omnisiah (as he knew everything he was the ultimate depository of knowledge and thus the ultimate object worthy of worship).

Well, probably not everything as such, but he definitely had "technical secrets" (Codex Titanicus '94), although the nature and breadth of these secrets are unknown. Considering how desperate the Mechanicum were for STC information, anything very significant he did know would cause him to at the very least extremely blessed, and at best the Omnissiah Himself - it was fairly early days for the Mechanicum, with only a solar system's worth of technical data at their command. They sent out thousands of fleets, and lost contact with them all, after hearing fleeting transmissions about rampaging Orks, pillaging Corsair Eldar, etc. Then someone unites the barbarians of Terra, and comes to Mars with technical secrets? It would certainly be a boost to morale if they believed that their messiah had arrived - and they may well have needed it, considering the circumstances.

 

I also remember old fluff where the emperor saw the future and knew that mankind must spread to the stars in order to survive and that he saw and knew the minds of people he dealt with.

I'm not sure I would agree he is omniscient; in fact, background from the Horus Heresy boardgame ('93) has a piece from the perspective of the Emperor, with this information: "Is this why I [The Emperor] have reached the limits of my prophetic powers? [...] Not for a second had the Emperor doubted him, not even when word had come from the Savage Worlds that the Warmaster was gathering forces. He had deluded himself that Horus must have good reason to do so without consulting him. I should have been warned by the failure of my precognition, he thinks." So the Emperor was not omniscient with Horus, and that does set a precedent.

 

My point exactly. Pasanius out of nowhere (kinda) got a hand made of this stuff and it bonded with him and served him well till it was removed by force. Nowhere was it even hinted that it corrupted him...thus assuming that Ferrus woudl have been corrupted is really not following occhams razor.

Ergo: I find it juvenile and do not view it seriously.

Actually, on page 608 of the Ultramarines Omnibus, there is this quote (Just after Uriel and Pasanius have arrived at the hideout of the others): "There was no doubt in his mind that it had been beneath the surface of Pavonis, facing the ancient star god known as the Nightbringer, that he had been cursed. He remembered the aching cold of the blow from it's scythe that had severed his arm, the crawling sensation of dead flesh where there had once been living tissue. Was it possible that some sort of corruption had been passed to him by the Nightbringer's weapon and had infected his body with this terrible sickness?"

 

Absolutely but I deliberatedly left this out since "today" there is no threat to the ctan and thus no reason what so ever for them to cooperate.

On the contrary, this is a "new start" for the ctans and as in every new start the first person to grab a handful of gold gets the most benefits (thus a competitive envirioment).

Yes, and the Deceiver's grabbed some into his pockets, and has now realised that he needs the other C'tan awake and on his side (for now) to carry that big pot of gold away to a nice cozy tomb... ;) And there's hardly no threat - the Imperium are beginning to get the hint that they need to destroy the Tombs if they are to survive, there is a substantial faction of crazed humans (and a few aliens) who now wield a power that has the possible potential to destroy them (Or at least incapacitate them), if they ever gain the knowledge how (Talismans of Vaul) and a tiny but desperate race who know of them and will go to nearly any length to stop them.

 

There are also in fact fluff references to exactly what he was building on terra in secrecy besides the throne (more things then the webway exploration) and there are also several contradicting fluff passages telling of the building of the throne at different times.

It is safe, I think, to take it that Dorn was advised on how to convert/add to the Golden Throne a life-support facility, hence the Golden Throne in its current believed incarnation.

 

There is explicit fluff saying that the eldar know about this and also about the location (in the imperium) where the largest and strongest concentration of pariahs is hidden and yet they choose not to strike destroying it since all eldar divinations tell of a very bad furure for themselves shuold they do so.

 

Kinda contradoctionary but also pointing towards the fact that all things are not what they seem to be or that the ctan project maybe has flaws in it.

I'm probably missing something - I can't see how it's contradictory, but I'm tired right now, so it could be obvious... :)

 

Yes there are three different fluffs telling about the omnisiah.

My point is which one do we follow?

It is wrong to follow just one since it can be wrong, all fluff must be considered.

Or the various fluff tell about various AM factions, some (the low caste) worshipping the dragon as omnisiah, some (teh high) worshipping the emperor and everything in between.

None that I can see are irrevocably contradictory - which three are you referring to?

 

Doesn´t mean anything!

Deamons have many names:)

 

Eisenhorn called cherubael, quixos called prophaniti and still both tried to kill their masters (not true names).

 

Also all deamon true names (GK books) are unpronounceble in human tongue unless effort is made to spell them out:P

It's still a possibility though, and although it has been a long time since I have read the Eisenhorn books, I don't remember Cherubael trying to kill it's master (Or Prophaniti, for that matter, but if I don't remember one, I might not remember the other. I need to reread those books, but I have trouble rereading Abnett's work - I don't know why... :s).

 

...says every prisoner to worry his captors or boost his own courage or find solace in imaginary thought of revenge.

As I said; suspect.

 

Didn´t know, thanks:)

Where is Lyriax situated?

No problem. Lyriax is situated in the way of Hive Fleet Leviathan, in (I think) Segmentum Tempestus, but it's hard to tell because of the angle.

 

There is no "normal" radii to a Dyson Sphere as all suns vary in mass and radiation output as well as type.

Perhaps the term "normal" should be substituted for "stereotypical" - sorry for the confusion.

[Aidoneus]

There is explicit fluff saying that the eldar know about this and also about the location (in the imperium) where the largest and strongest concentration of pariahs is hidden and yet they choose not to strike destroying it since all eldar divinations tell of a very bad furure for themselves shuold they do so.

Are you refering to the passage in the Necron Codex? Because that wasn't a world of Necron Pariahs; it was the temple-world of the Culexus Assassins.

 

There is no "normal" radii to a Dyson Sphere as all suns vary in mass and radiation output as well as type.

Perhaps the term "normal" should be substituted for "stereotypical" - sorry for the confusion.

I don't think there could be a "sterotypical" size for Dyson spheres, for the reasons listed above. They aren't exactly common enough for there to be any sort of trend or anything like that. Suffice to say, they'd be MASSIVE! Consider: we get the right amount of light and radiation and whatnot here on Earth, and our sun is pretty much medium-sized. Thus, if one were to build a Dyson Sphere using a star similar to our sun, the radius would be about the distance from the Earth to our Sun (1AU, or roughly 93 million miles).

 

For more Dyson Sphere info, here's a helpful source! :wink:

[Necrontyr]

Are you refering to the passage in the Necron Codex? Because that wasn't a world of Necron Pariahs; it was the temple-world of the Culexus Assassins.

 

Yes it is, that passage does state that something bad would happen if they destroyed the Pariah gene, something like Warp Gates would be opening up everywhere or lack of Pariahs, thus the Deciever loses the ability to use them which means the Nightbringer could more easily crush him leaving the galaxy open.

 

I don't think there could be a "sterotypical" size for Dyson spheres, for the reasons listed above. They aren't exactly common enough for there to be any sort of trend or anything like that. Suffice to say, they'd be MASSIVE! Consider: we get the right amount of light and radiation and whatnot here on Earth, and our sun is pretty much medium-sized. Thus, if one were to build a Dyson Sphere using a star similar to our sun, the radius would be about the distance from the Earth to our Sun (1AU, or roughly 93 million miles).

 

Yeah, it's true, a Red giant would need an absolutely massive sphere as you've also got to look at heat as well, if it's too close then the Metal might being to warp out of shape wrecking the Sphere.

[Mechanicus]

I don't think there could be a "sterotypical" size for Dyson spheres, for the reasons listed above. They aren't exactly common enough for there to be any sort of trend or anything like that. Suffice to say, they'd be MASSIVE! Consider: we get the right amount of light and radiation and whatnot here on Earth, and our sun is pretty much medium-sized. Thus, if one were to build a Dyson Sphere using a star similar to our sun, the radius would be about the distance from the Earth to our Sun (1AU, or roughly 93 million miles).

I know what I mean... even if no one else does. :wink: ;) I did mean around Sol, but I failed to state that... presumably because I was thinking on the very human-o-centric thought of "Our sun is this size, so normal size must be 1 AU". Ah well. :)

[Severus6]

Gents,

 

For the most part this has been extremely helpful and interesting conversation and I applaud the effort by the group to bring about meaningful answers to questions not yet truly defined. However, with that being said, things are beginning to get testy and if this continues it will end. Period. Be nice and think before you type. :P

 

Severus6

[Necrontyr]

I apologise, I'll try to be more careful when typing.

[Demonic D]

I think that I did read something about the Terminator armour in the old rouge trader or some 40k fluff article.

 

The Terminator suite was first made to be use so one could walk around in a plasma reactor for repairs. It was later adopted by the Astartes.

[Necrontyr]

Makes sense, then they realised that you oculd do a lot more than walk around in a reactor in it :P

[Demonic D]

The problem with the age of strife and the golden age is that there is so little fluff that realy tells you what happen and by whos hand.... But Mars is a great chapter in the 40k saga.. Hey Guys we crosse the 7000 wive mark... Jee ha

[Necrontyr]

It would be useful to have some AM books of around that period, maybe looking at the unification and the technology brought about.