Collaborative Chapter Creation Project II

[Darrell]

As for an idea for the Chaplains, what if they were to act less like priests and zealots, and more like Commissars? They'd be the ones to make sure individuals don't try to do something stupid/heroic, that their battle-brothers aren't found wanting in the face of the enemy, that everybody does their duty, et cetera.

 

An interesting idea, but I think poorly worded. Everything a Space Marine does is heroic; their existence is a life of sacrifice for Mankind. There is less than one Space Marine for every world in the Imperium, yet they are enough for the task given to them. When they go to war, they fight against enemies who outnumber them many times over, and yet they still prevail. Space Marine Chapters engage in fights too brutal for humans, in environments too brutal for humans, over a length of time too brutal for humans. They are, by definition, heroes. I think what you want to avoid is needless sacrifice and last stands; these things need not make the Chapter any less brave, honorable, or heroic.

 

The Chaplain being the anti-zealout is interesting, though, since it is a 180 from the way Chaplains usually function in a Chapter. They usually spur their comrades with stirring rhetoric and zealous speech that drives the Space Marines into religious fervor. Perhaps instead of rousing speeches and shouting Litanies of Hate, perhaps the Chaplains of the War Bearers recite passages from the Codex Astartes in a consistently calm, controlled voice so as to maintain the feeling of pragmatism in his Brothers.

[Archangelus]

Nice ideas out there :blush:

 

When I mentioned wars, I was referring to the period BEFORE Natos was re-discovered by the Imperium and became homeworld of the WB.

 

Now they all play nicely, having a go at each other via the Academy Wargames.

 

The chaplain could be very zealous regarding the end results. Instead of shouting: "Charge! Purge the enemies of the Imperium!"

He would be more like: "We have to capture this bridge. And there have to be enough of us to hold it. Remember the Codex! Glory, not death!

Edited August 19, 2006 by Archangelus

[Tubal]

IMO the War Bearers have to have faith of some type, or they won't survive their first battle against chaos. It doesn't have to be religious faith as such, it could be faith in the chapter and the Emperor (as the lord of mankind), but it has to be something. The chaplains would instill and reinforce (and enforce) that faith during training and on the battlefield, as a regular chaplain, but the way they go about it might be different from normal chapters.

Since they don't believe in the Emperor as a god they can't use blessings and 'the Emperor protects' to improve morale: they have to appeal to the marines' sense of duty and self-sacrifice to a higher degree than other chapters.

 

The 'Beliefs' part of the IA could turn out to be the hardest to put onto paper :P

[Grimdarkness]

The 'Beliefs' part of the IA could turn out to be the hardest to put onto paper

 

The imperial church has a problem with marines seeing the emp not as a god but the very best or pinacel of mankind maybe the WB see him as the apex of what a warrior should be. so instead of the emperor protects they have the Emperor watches over us or the empeore would/is proud? :P

[Hrvat]

On the matters of faith the best soultion would be the faith into themselves.

 

Where another Marine would say "Emperor give me strength to coplete this task" the WB would say "We can do it!"

 

On the matter of beliefs we might use that Conan thing "The Emperor help only those who help themselves!"

[AWOL]

On the matter of beliefs we might use that Conan thing "The Emperor help only those who help themselves!"

 

Hmm, I think that has some possibilities.

 

Maybe what I was thinking as far as having the world possess a military tradition would be some record of them defending themselves before the arrival of the Warbearers from outside attackers. As was pointed out, they were on the fringe of the Imperium until just recently. They must have had some enemies attacking them from time to time. How did they defend themselves? How did their armies wage war? What effect did this have on the combat doctrines of the War Bearers?

 

I guess the mass industrialization does add to the "Grim Darkness"-yness of their world. It just kind of feels like we're stepping away slightly from the original focus on the War Bearers being "the common man" when their world is so thoroughly dominated by these aristocratic families on the top. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. It's really just a redefinition of our original thought. Maybe a mention somewhere in the section about how the Inquistion/Administratum/Somebody else has often commented on the fact that, despite the harsh conditions, the citizens of Natos not only endure the conditions but, in fact, embrace them as a means to pushing themselves to accomplish their planetary objectives...or something.

Edited August 20, 2006 by AWOL

[AWOL]

Why is it that every time I post on this thread, all activity ceases for days, lol? :)

[Tubal]

Don't take it personally. If you're the most frequent poster it's most likely to happen to you :jaw:

 

It just kind of feels like we're stepping away slightly from the original focus on the War Bearers being "the common man" when their world is so thoroughly dominated by these aristocratic families on the top.

All planets have a ruling body, even if it's just an imperial govenor in a fort. For example I don't imagine ogryn planets having a very centralised goverment :)

Noble families, or merchant guilds etc, seem to be the most common forms of goverment aside from the purely dictatorial. All planets have to have an imperial govenor with overall responsibility but on space marine homeworlds I think that duty lies with the chapter master, at least in theory. They most likely have non-marines handling the day-to-day business though.

 

We could spread out the power a little, below the govenor that is, by having many noble families competing. Perhaps the planet could be organized in dozens, and perhaps hundreds, of city-states with several larger families vying for the top. Every city would be mostly independent but competing for off-world contracts with the mechanicum, munitorium etc. It would put the power closer to the people, unlike hive-worlds like Necromunda or Armageddon, but it wouldn't make the planet too sugary sweet to fit in :jaw:

 

City-states sounds a bit ancient italian/greek but I don't think there would be a problem with giving the planet another overall culture.

[Commissar Molotov]

I don't think the War Bearers were ever billed as 'the common man', although I did make almost proletarian suggestions in the drafted IA. Rather, they protect the 'common Imperials'.

[AWOL]

Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed then. One of the main design points was to make the war bearers seem more like common soldiers and less like individual heroes, right? Maybe that's what threw me off.

[Archangelus]

I think we are on the right track, so far.

 

The WB protect the common imperial citizens from threats they could never hope to face themselves. The WB also believe in co-ordinated action and teamwork. Individual heroics are not encouraged, as they can jeopardise the whole unit and the achievement of its objectives. Of course if there is a need for sacrifice to get the job done, a War Bearer would not bat an eyelid before acting decisively.

 

Do you remember the story in the SM Codex under the apothecary entry, where a Space Marine shields his Battle-brothers from an underground mortar shell by throwing himself on it just in time. These kind of heroics are the stuff the War Bearers are made of!

Edited August 25, 2006 by Archangelus

[Tubal]

Well, the War Bearers themselves can't really be "common" since they are space marines :lol:

[Grimdarkness]

I have to ask why are we changing the chaplain the WB are strictly codex so there chaplains should be as well. Cassius dose not read like a zealot in the SM Codex. The job of training the scouts falls to the reserve company so the neophyte is trained be a village not just a chaplain/librarian it also serves as a better transition to the chapter if a group of new scouts are posted to the 6th to learn tactical combat those who show prowess with the combat bikes or speeders would be sent to the 7th and all marines should spend some time in the 8th or 9th to have an understanding of the heavy weapons of the chapter.

 

On the codex matter have we chosen a chapter that the captain/chapter master hails from. If not can i suggest one of the counsuls chapters.

[Archangelus]

We do not deviate from Codex Chaplain. We just fine-tune the Chaplain's role to fit better with the Chapter's attitude.

 

Regarding the Chapter Master's origins the White/Black Consuls suggested above are a good choice but my personal suggestion is:

 

Genesis Chapter

 

It has not been used much as a chapter by GW.

[Grimdarkness]

We do not deviate from Codex Chaplain. We just fine-tune the Chaplain's role to fit better with the Chapter's attitude.

 

Which is one of professional soldiers they know the job they have and what needs to be done why do the WB need there chaplains to enforce that?

[Archangelus]

They do not need to enforce that. They are not Commissars or anything. After all even the most pragmatic Space Marine will need faith to shield him from the horrors of the Warp.

 

The chaplain's role is spiritual instruction and support anyway. In the WB a chaplain also does part of the training. In terms of faith the dogma stresses the point of "effectiveness" instead of "glory".

 

A like to think that a War Bearer Chaplain would advise like this:

 

"After all you serve the Emperor and by fulfilling your duties you give glory to HIM.

 

Yes, the sound of the Boltgun is a prayer to Him.

Yes, the dead enemies of the Imperium are an offering to him.

But if you fail? Then what? Do not die and fail! Live and succeed!"

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Hello Brothers! I

[Grimdarkness]

They do not need to enforce that. They are not Commissars or anything. After all even the most pragmatic Space Marine will need faith to shield him from the horrors of the Warp.

 

The chaplain's role is spiritual instruction and support anyway. In the WB a chaplain also does part of the training. In terms of faith the dogma stresses the point of "effectiveness" instead of "glory".

 

A like to think that a War Bearer Chaplain would advise like this:

 

"After all you serve the Emperor and by fulfilling your duties you give glory to HIM.

 

Yes, the sound of the Boltgun is a prayer to Him.

Yes, the dead enemies of the Imperium are an offering to him.

But if you fail? Then what? Do not die and fail! Live and succeed!"

 

I know i may have been reading more into the beliefs post then was there it just seemed wrong that a codex chapter would have such strange chaplain's.

 

Hello Brothers! I

[Ferrata]

You have to remember a Chaplains role in a chapter is spiritual and religious guidence and protection. The War Bearers will have both of these, thus Chaplains are required. Now, the WB religious dogma could be more "commom" and less god-centred, but there will be some dogma.

[Archangelus]

Exactly!

[Commissar Molotov]

I don't think that a Space Marine chapter is what it is without religious dogma to some degree. Even if it's a total fervour that what they're doing is right. Space Marines are the warriors of the God-Emperor, and will pay him his dues, too. Our chapter simply isn't a bunch of religious fanatics. The ideas regarding venerating Guilliman as the greatest tactician (or strategician?) that ever lived is a good one, certainly.

[Grimdarkness]

I don't think that a Space Marine chapter is what it is without religious dogma to some degree. Even if it's a total fervour that what they're doing is right. Space Marines are the warriors of the God-Emperor, and will pay him his dues, too. Our chapter simply isn't a bunch of religious fanatics. The ideas regarding venerating Guilliman as the greatest tactician (or strategician?) that ever lived is a good one, certainly.

 

Figurers took me four days of "brain Storming" to come up with something close to what the Commissar posted. I'm stumped... :)

Edited September 7, 2006 by Grimdarkness

[Tubal]

So, who feels up to writing a second draft of the IA? Molotov's first draft is here, with a small addition by me the post below.

I've thought of doing it myself but I'm really not that good at writing long pieces of fluff :ph34r:

[Archangelus]

Well, should we discuss combat doctrine?

 

I was thinking that the War Bearers would be prepared for anything that the enemy might throw at them, while at the same time focusing an having the right "tools" for the job.

 

Right tools for the job: The War Bearers follow the Codex Astartes very closely, as it allows maximum flexibility.

 

Be prepared: In a standard organisation chart, a War Bearers army should fill at least one of each slots under Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. These slots can be filled by allies if the rules allow it. For example if fighting against Chaos, a War Bearer army could include an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor.

 

Listen to the expert: Due to the War Bearers pragmatic view of things, putting a lot of weight in strategy and tactics, 1 HQ slot should always be filled by a Space Marine Commander, who is flexible and a master tactician.

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

Eh...I think now's a bit early to start imposing "rules" for the Chapter. I also think the thread is pretty...well, deaded.

 

Part of that is because Molly's suffering from lack of internet, as he recently relocated to university and is SOL, but also because there haven't been posts for the better part of two weeks.

 

If we want, I can write a second IA in my spare time, however. :blink: