Collaborative Chapter Creation Project II

[Nine_Breaker]

But Marines very rarely stay in one battle until the enemy is completly destroyed, there are too few marines for this. Marines get in, change the tide of the battle and do any jobs that are either too difficult for the Guard or it *needs* to be done. Marines leaving tidying up work the Guard, so you need a reason why the Bearers do this, why do they not stop until it is all dead.

 

I agree that marines rarely stay that long, but I disagree that the Chapter needs to get their arses handed to them in order for them to get into the habit of staying until the enemy is firmly beaten. Perhaps they know about that whole root/tree/leaf metaphor that the Ordo Hereticus sports and agree with it. They destroy the enemy utterly because they know from the history books that if you don't pull a weed by the roots, it'll just grow back! They don't NEED to suffer a huge defeat or set back to have a reason for such behavior.

 

As for where these guys are, how about the Segmentum Solar? Don't see a lot of stuff coming from there these days.

[Ferrata]

I can see what your all saying about not needing a massive defeat, but the second suggestion didn't have them defeated, it stopped them being efficent and killed citizens, two things they hate. Initially, getting in, killing the growth and letting Guardsmen clean up would be the most efficent way of fighting for them. They could take part in more battles, save the lives of more citizens etc. Then, they have to go back because it reappeared and they lost effiency and people died (not marines).

 

Don't go in Solar, its already full!

[Heru]

Your suggestions Ferrata seem abit too Death before Dishonour...

 

 

Now the way I see it is, that they could work in union with supporting Guard units rather than separately (like most Chapters). This would give more tactical flexibility, enabling them to stay on the ground longer and commit to more thorough plans of action.

 

Now don't take that as they run the show, no obviously they'd work alongside the Guard Commanders. They'd probably have a better relations (ugh was going to go with the word that sounds like but isn't spelt like ripore) with Guard Commanders than other Chapters,

 

Less "We're here to take over", more "We're here to help, fill us in".

Edited July 20, 2006 by Heru Talon

[AWOL]

If they have a typical hardworking soldier attitude, they might have just been indoctrinated from birth due to their culture to not leave a job until it's finished. I agree that it does sound a bit "Death Before Dishonor," but only if you think that not leaving the job until it's finished means suicidal last stands. It can also just as easily means rear-guard actions while the Guard troops evacuate civilians, prior to a purgatis of the world in question.

 

And my bad about the Armageddon thing. Still, I think Solar has possibilities just because we were thinking that their fortress world is probably situated on an important space lane.

[Ferrata]

Your suggestions Ferrata seem abit too Death before Dishonour...

Explain how

[Archangelus]

I like the idea of the Segmentum Pacificus. The Halo Stars offer lots of opportunities for storylines, I think.

 

Rogue trader routes, expansion crusades, unknown alien species...

Edited July 21, 2006 by Archangelus

[Commissar Molotov]

It can also just as easily means rear-guard actions while the Guard troops evacuate civilians, prior to a purgatis of the world in question.

 

Which the Ultramarines are documented as having done to Medusa IV, just before it was destroyed by the Inquisition.

 

Ferrata makes a valid point - I'd like to avoid Segmentum Solar. Our main candidates are the Segmentae Pacificus and Tempestus. Archangelus mentioned the Segmentum Pacificus to base the chapter. He's right that it potentially offers interesting storylines, especially if they're based towards the Western Fringes. I'd like to distance it from the Macharian Crusades, though; especially because that's fairly late in the 40k timeline.

 

What do people think? Is that a decent selection? Is it worthy of further discussion? Is there another point of view we should be considering and weighing up?

[Zhivago]

Western fringes are good.

 

I'd like to distance it from the Macharian Crusades, though; especially because that's fairly late in the 40k timeline.

 

But I think that not too close of Eye would be good either. :P

And they need to be 'with-in' the imperium to be in important line.

 

Hydraphur: (Segmentum Pacificus) Segmentum Pacificus Imperial Naval Base is close there, so somewhere "near" it ?

 

EDIT: typoes.

Edited July 23, 2006 by Zhivago

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, the Eye of Terror is in the Segmentum Obscurus - if we were to set the homeworld in the 'southern' areas of the Segmentum Pacificus, I think we'd be alright.

 

Hydraphur poses problems because it's a major world that could easily go up in smoke with any GW publication. Also, Hydraphur's heavily defended on its' own. It doesn't need our homeworld.

 

 

EDIT:

 

'Typo' has a Greek root so there's no 'e'. :P

Edited July 23, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Archangelus]

Hydraphur is a Naval base and segmentum capital. All segmenta have such a planet. If the WB homeworld is located far away from Hydraphur, there should be no problem.

[Commissar Molotov]

That's what I was suggesting. So... is there any disagreement with setting the War Bearers in the Segmentum Pacificus?

[Zhivago]

Hydraphur poses problems because it's a major world that could easily go up in smoke with any GW publication. Also, Hydraphur's heavily defended on its' own. It doesn't need our homeworld.

I was more trying to imply general location, meaning between macharia and the Eye.

"Near" could mean several hundred lightyears.

 

if we were to set the homeworld in the 'southern' areas of the Segmentum Pacificus, I think we'd be alright.

 

That place is kind of frontier isn't it ? And frontiers chronically lack important space lines. After all, only nids have come from outside of the galaxy.

 

I'm staring this so if there is more 'modern' map in the net I'd like to know. :P

 

So how about somewhere in middle of Tempestus ? It seem boring place that no-one is intrested of.

And it should be 'civilized' enough to have important space lines.

 

Having said that, I have nothing against southern pacificus, I just think it need bit 'fluffing out'

 

Meaning to say, why the world was garrisoned (ok, it came to sit upon important route). So why the route became important ?

 

I'd like to keep pilgrims out of this, so it would likely be some sort of supply route. Some general supply route that brings resources from peripheria to heart of the imperium to be refined war-engines and such.

This would mean that route became important AFTER some rich mining colony was founded, or something like that. While this is not vital information for fluffing the chapter, I think that such convoys would lure in pirates of several races, and so our chapter would have something to do in near space too.

 

 

What would poor finn like me know of Greek :P

[Archangelus]

There is a huge empty space west of Hydraphur. There is nothing stopping us from creating a couple more planets there.

[Commissar Molotov]

Alright, so we have two opposing opinions - West of Hydraphur, in the Segmentum Pacificus, or in the Segmentum Tempestus. What are the benefits and disadvantages of both? If we can compile that, we should be able to come to a reasoned decision without needing to resort to polls. :P

[Heru]

I'm staring this so if there is more 'modern' map in the net I'd like to know. :P

 

 

 

You mean like this?

CLICK

 

 

Do note that unlike the Darkmillennia map it is at an angle. Oh also it's an interactive map (top left gives you the x and y references, and putting your cursor over a notable item bring up a small summary).

Edited July 23, 2006 by Heru Talon

[Grimdarkness]

A fortress world to protect against incursion from the HALO Zone. Edited July 24, 2006 by Grimdarkness

[AWOL]

I'd love to contribute, but my 40k geography ain't what it used to be.

 

Is there a system in the history that gained importance recently? That way we could place our planet along the route to go along with what we've established via the "gained in importance over time" thing.

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, AWOL, this map and this map will help you with your geography issues. Keep in mind that the second map has been rotated by ninety degrees.

 

With regards to recently; do we really want the War Bearers to be a recent, young chapter? I'm simply asking because it's something we need to bear in mind. Before people seemed to suggest a founding between 14 and 18, all of which are far before the Age of Apostasy in M36.

[Archangelus]

Correct me if I am wrong (probably I am), but the Adeptus Astartes remained largely uninvolved and neutral. So that should be no problem.

 

In case of the crusade of Solar Macharius, maybe the War Bearers were not involved for various reasons:

1. The chapter was deployed in another warzone

2. The chapter was recovering from heavy losses

3. The chapter refused to fight alongside the Tallarn/Catachan/Mordians/Macharius for various reasons. A grudge for example. Maybe one of said regiments left them hanging when they needed them (going along the close WB-IG cooperation theme, here).

 

There are a lot of reasons why the venerable chapter of the War Bearers (16th founding - random number here) was not involved in the Macharian crusade, Heresy, Age of Apostasy etc.

 

Regarding the founding I like the idea of them being a relatively early founding. Grizzled veterans so to speak.

[Ferrata]

This thread is extremely long, and as I found with the first project, long threads makes new people scared to post. It even goes as far as discourage those who have posted since the start. You have one of two options, I can either move all the posts from this thread to a new thread which will be purely War Bearers (so we will remove the initial posts). This should reduce the size of the thread by around three pages. The next idea would be to create an entire new thread with different posts from this thread linked in their groups, so someone can look at all the "Home world" discussion. Comments will continue in the new thread, but every so often we will move the older posts to this one and put them on the list. As idea's get more defined, we can start removing sections of links and replace them with sections from the IA or the basic details of that area.

[Hrvat]

I am off to a internet space black hole so won't be able to post much over next 3 weeks. I will be loking forward on how will you guys progress.

[AWOL]

Well, AWOL, this map and this map will help you with your geography issues. Keep in mind that the second map has been rotated by ninety degrees.

 

With regards to recently; do we really want the War Bearers to be a recent, young chapter? I'm simply asking because it's something we need to bear in mind. Before people seemed to suggest a founding between 14 and 18, all of which are far before the Age of Apostasy in M36.

 

Recent was probably the wrong word. I meant to express simply that it's a world that became important after the time we were favoring for the creation of the chapter.

[Commissar Molotov]

This thread is extremely long, and as I found with the first project, long threads makes new people scared to post. It even goes as far as discourage those who have posted since the start. You have one of two options, I can either move all the posts from this thread to a new thread which will be purely War Bearers (so we will remove the initial posts). This should reduce the size of the thread by around three pages. The next idea would be to create an entire new thread with different posts from this thread linked in their groups, so someone can look at all the "Home world" discussion. Comments will continue in the new thread, but every so often we will move the older posts to this one and put them on the list. As idea's get more defined, we can start removing sections of links and replace them with sections from the IA or the basic details of that area.

 

Thank you for your input, Ferrata, but I don't wish to take either option. I spoke with Kurgan last night about splitting the thread, and I don't want to do it. I understand the arguments surrounding doing so, but I'm not in favour of it. It serves as a useful and coherent record of the chapter creation process. It's not disparate and it's not scattered around the forum. It chronicles all the processes of the project and the formulative steps that were taken. I'm glad it's all in one place.

 

I don't think that the thread discourages people at all. It's doing exactly what I intended it to do - creating a small but cohesive community - posters like Keyoz, Archangelus, Barrett, Hrvat, AWOL and Heru Talon are the kind of people we need on the Liber. Whilst the Castellans might (from certain points of view) suffered from long threads, I think this is doing the job. I also think seperate threads for seperate sections would damage the fluidity of the chapter creation process and be harmful to the project as a whole. As I'm sure you know, the best way to approach a chapter is holistically. You can't (or shouldn't?) do one section, tick all the boxes and move on to the next as one section might influence changes in another.

[Ferrata]

You misunderstood the option Molotov. The idea for the second thread would have a primary thread which contains links to different posts in this thread. Discussion would contine like in here, but with posts only lasting a week in the "current" thread, and being moved to this thread after their week. This way we create a rolling thread which will encourage new members to join in.

 

I don't think that the thread discourages people at all. It's doing exactly what I intended it to do - creating a small but cohesive community - posters like Keyoz, Archangelus, Barrett, Hrvat, AWOL and Heru Talon are the kind of people we need on the Liber

I'm quite aware of what Liber needs and does not need

[Commissar Molotov]

Correct me if I am wrong (probably I am), but the Adeptus Astartes remained largely uninvolved and neutral. So that should be no problem.

 

In case of the crusade of Solar Macharius, maybe the War Bearers were not involved for various reasons:

1. The chapter was deployed in another warzone

2. The chapter was recovering from heavy losses

3. The chapter refused to fight alongside the Tallarn/Catachan/Mordians/Macharius for various reasons. A grudge for example. Maybe one of said regiments left them hanging when they needed them (going along the close WB-IG cooperation theme, here).

 

There are a lot of reasons why the venerable chapter of the War Bearers (16th founding - random number here) was not involved in the Macharian crusade, Heresy, Age of Apostasy etc.

 

Regarding the founding I like the idea of them being a relatively early founding. Grizzled veterans so to speak.

 

You're not wrong at all - for the majority of the AoA, the Astartes were neutral. I wasn't mentioning that with regards to the War Bearers - simply stating that the first twenty-one foundings place us before the Age of Apostasy, which was an incredibly formative time for the Imperium. Bastions of the Imperium such as the Ordo Hereticus and the Ordo Sororitas weren't around.

 

I don't think we need to mention the Macharian Crusades at all; as you say, the chapter could be busy enough on their own. I think it's important to nail down our chapter, though. Tempestus or Pacificus? There's essentially a large amount of freedom for us in Tempestus, I think - it's one of the segmentae that's given the least attention by people, but it has its' fair share of drama. What do people think?

 

Recent was probably the wrong word. I meant to express simply that it's a world that became important after the time we were favoring for the creation of the chapter.

 

Ah, I understand. I think we could quite easily create our own important world without needing to rely on GW. We could even link it to a crusade of some sort; the bastion world would quickly become a major thoroughfare, allowing the War Bearers to keep their finger on the pulse of things.