Collaborative Chapter Creation Project II

[Zhivago]

How about an agri-world with some cities that was at some point attacked by "X". The local populace rallied and fought back with such resolve and steadfast courage, along with the pitifully outnumbered PDF. The war was harsh and the farmers had to use all their ingenuity (?) and resources to hold the enemy back. They were not only fighting for survival but they also felt the need/duty to protect what the Emperor has placed in their care when they first settled it.

 

When the Ultramarines came to the rescue and mopped up the enemy forces, they were impressed by the "farmers-turned-warriors". Because the relevant subsector became under the direct threat of "X" it was decided to found an Astartes Chapter in the area. The then Ultramarine Chapter Master "Y" suggested that a suitable homeworld was "Z" (our nice little planet). Thus the War Bearers were born.

 

Maybe the world has some really dangerous areas/continents that are ideal for training.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Remember Soldiers, not Heroes. Farmers becoming warriors and fighting with courage is back on the hero side of the fence.

 

 

Add to that, that story seems to be quite common among the DIYs here. It has followig problem.

 

Y has actually no authority over founding, nor can he make suggestions.

 

 

 

Perhaps the Chapter during founding chose the world for it's military training regime. Now seeing as the world also makes Imperial Guard regiments means that it is a very well guarded Fortress World that can still do it's job guarding whatever, even with the War Bearers off kicking butt.

One would still assume that at least one company remained there, as a honor guard. Plus there'd be fortress monastry there. Prehpas the fortress monastery is in the orbit ? Or on the moon ? They are often in inhospitable places to faciliate training. Surface of garrison world doesn't sound much like one. (Ok, Macragge (sp) ain't literal hell either, but at least the land is harsh.)

 

 

Fortress monastry with all the guns would make nice orbital defense platform. :D

 

EDIT: my quotes :(

Edited July 17, 2006 by Zhivago

[Grimdarkness]

Bit like ultramar, but why not. Planet that is proud of it's military history. Perhaps they even send regiments to serve in imperial guard. It is this 'cadia' thing that I don't like, see reasoning above.

 

So more like the world of mordheim (sp) iirc the guard regiment that takes take pride in your colours to a whole new level?

[Big Woop]

One thing that would be interesting would be placing a slavic culture in a tropical climate. Just a thought.

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Some random ideas about home world:

 

-harsh cold climate with tundra’s and great forests

-big scattered cities-fortresses (but not hives) of noble families

-technologically on the same level as other imperial words (like cadia)

-all males are soldiers and members of PDF trained in military academies

-nobles are officers ,their subjects make something like city regiments

-noble families are fighting for political dominance and the seat of planets governor using plots and alliances to win the elections (only nobles have the right to vote)

-planet on the frontier of the Imperium guarding its borders against some xenos (something less common like hrud (?) would be nice)

-fortress monastery of War Bearers -orbital gun battery

-very old WB that are to old to fight and will probably die of old age (it's very rare but it happens) are becoming instructors in military academies training normal humans and choosing future marines

 

Maybe the voting could also have place in WB when they are choosing chapter master, but only the veterans and officers have the right to vote.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Keyoz Devastrius

[Commissar Molotov]

We know that for a marines' organs to 'take' properly, implantation of the first organs must begin between the ages of 10-14. As such, if recruits are taken at the age of eight, they have between two and six years to impress the Chaplains and then be taken away. There is the possibility that Marines on 'garrison duty' could participate to some degree in the training process. Whatever we decide, the War Bearers heavily influence the young trainees.

 

Plus, consider that the bulk of the chapter would be based at/near this world. If you consider that the Mortifactors are quoted in Warriors of Ultramar as having around 7,000 individuals in their support staff, it's entirely possible that we can consider some merge with 'serfs' and these PDF/guard.

 

I disagree with Zhivago that the marine recruits would cause some form of commotion in the academy. If the ideas are culturally based, it's quite possible there might not be jealousy. If the War Bearers don't grind the concepts of 'successes' and 'failures' into the young soldiers, they won't be jealous that they're 'failures'.

 

Well, if you have fortress world, you get huge amount of regiments. And you need something valuable to defened. Immediate question would be, was the chapter founded to strengthen defenses ? And why they are allowed to sail away to do their work ? Theese were supposed to be guys carrying the war on imprium. And that won't be easy of they sit on some planet waiting for something to happen.

 

-> Yes, a fortress world means something valuable to defend, but it's on a sector-wide scale! This world serves as a bastion, a rally point, a HQ from where things can be coordinated and the like. My thoughts were that it was a fortress world long before the War Bearers came to it.

 

-> I didn't say the chapter was founded to strengthen defenses :). The chapter considers themselves defenders, but don't confuse the two. They don't hide behind the battlements or the like. They don't 'sit on some planet'. Just because they recruit from a fortress world, don't think that they're hiding or the like.

 

Archangelus' idea is a little clich

Edited July 17, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Archangelus]

Ok, ok, I admit it. It was indeed quite a clich Edited July 17, 2006 by Archangelus

[Heru]

Although I really like the idea about the noble families and the academies, does this not create a militaristic elite of highborn commanders, which somehow pushes as away from the grunt/soldier type?

 

 

That was one of my concerns too.

 

 

Anyways here is a few ideas...

 

 

1. One Company minium will always remain at the Homeworld, which Company this is, is rotated on a ? year basis.

 

2. One Company minium is always attached to one or more of the Imperial Guard regiments created from the Homeworld. Taking up a similar roll to Storm Troopers or Grenadiers. Which company this is, is also rotated.

 

3. The rest of the Chapter's Companies have Guard Companies attached to them.

 

 

:cough:

 

Now we all know that realistically a Space Marine Chapter is way to small to be anything but an elite Strike Force that gets in, and gets out after the job is done, but with attached Guard Units they can be a tad more flexable staying in a battle for longer.

 

 

Or somesuch, having difficulty atm getting the words I want to say to formulate cohesively...

 

 

 

 

 

Oh also on the alien Empire thing, we could just make up one ourselves.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Heru Talon

[Commissar Molotov]

Idea #2 simply couldn't work, I would think - considering the sheer amount of regiments that a world could put out. It's also a waste of the talents of marines. #3 works to an extent, but might raise eyebrows; it violates the dictates regarding marines controlling the Imperial Guard. As such we might want to limit it to simply 'good relations' or clearly seperate their command structures and the like. Perhaps the Marines operate in many campaigns with support of the guard, but they're not under marine control. It's something to consider.

 

With regards to #1, I think that's pretty much definate. Nearly every chapter maintains a guard force on their homeworld.

 

With regards to the 'Highborn' - I think you're focusing too much on the Guard aspect of this. But even so - almost all modern armies have clear distinctions between 'officers' and the 'enlisted'. It makes sense that the nobles provide the officers, with some enlisted men making their way up the ranks. With regards to the marines, they'd be inducted at an age where social class doesn't matter at all.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Heru]

#3 works to an extent, but might raise eyebrows; it violates the dictates regarding marines controlling the Imperial Guard. As such we might want to limit it to simply 'good relations' or clearly seperate their command structures and the like. Perhaps the Marines operate in many campaigns with support of the guard, but they're not under marine control. It's something to consider.

 

Yes I did mean to say that they'd not be under the control of the War Bearers.

 

 

 

Edit: Hmm weird thing I just noticed whilst browsing the UK GW Chapter Gallery.

 

 

There is a Chapter named the Emperor's Warbringers - Chapter symbol crossed swords, similar (though not exactly the same) colour scheme to the War Bringers...

 

 

Then there is the War Bringers with their crossed Axes.

 

 

Just something I noticed.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Heru Talon

[Zhivago]

> Yes, a fortress world means something valuable to defend, but it's on a sector-wide scale! This world serves as a bastion, a rally point, a HQ from where things can be coordinated and the like. My thoughts were that it was a fortress world long before the War Bearers came to it.

Would imperium allow it ? Marines to 'hi-jack' garrison world. As guard would lose a lots of tithed regiments. At least potentially. Marines might allow tithing regiments, BUT then it would be up to marines.

 

With regards to #1, I think that's pretty much definate.

 

yup.

 

As such we might want to limit it to simply 'good relations' or clearly seperate their command structures and the like. Perhaps the Marines operate in many campaigns with support of the guard, but they're not under marine control. It's something to consider.

PDF is in command of governor, and tithed regimets at the hands of warmaster that is chosen by imperial policy. Having marines to tell guard where to go would disturb imperial practises. Having marines to go after tithed regiments they have sent away would feel bit odd too.

 

There would'nt be these problems with your 'normal' marine homeworld. :wink:

 

Then the marines could be 'commonly' working with guard, but there wouldn't be such 'bonding' effect.

 

I disagree with Zhivago that the marine recruits would cause some form of commotion in the academy. If the ideas are culturally based, it's quite possible there might not be jealousy. If the War Bearers don't grind the concepts of 'successes' and 'failures' into the young soldiers, they won't be jealous that they're 'failures'.

 

Some sort of 'greater good' dogma? I mean, men are envious lot by nature. Look at most cultures on earth...

I mean, kids on earth make rucus if they are not chosen to baseball team. What would young boys of olde and noble families do when their (possible) dreams were crushed ?

 

 

With regards to the 'really dangerous training areas!' I was thinking that the academies have either co-opted a moon or another planet in the system and have turned it into a huge warzone, a training ground ravaged by endless wargames. Something man-made as opposed to a conveniently harsh climate. It fits with the pragmatic style we're going for.

 

This idea is nice. Though it pretty much would need the garrison world to provide enough men. ;)

 

 

If the planet stands on a door to important space line, no foe X in needed, rather we have subset of foes {f1,f2,f3...,fn}

[Hrvat]

My suggestion is to make Beil-Tan their arch nemesis. Place their homeworld in the galactic south and make it a former Eldar Exodite/Paradise/Maiden.

 

I am definatly against cold climate for the planet. I am more inclined to a perpetual spring as that would fit with the idea that this was one time an eldar world. Also I would support an idea of no super predators on the planet.

 

The planet would be divided into principalities and each principality would have a capital with its own recruting centre. I suggest this fragmentation of goverment because I know from my personal experience that centralised states are hard to run.

 

Now ontu the mentality and some little known facts of the slav group I belong to. Our entire history is one of perpetual war and we have always been very good in cavalry while our neighbours as most of other slav peoples were predominatly infantry based. We are very brave but at the same time vary cocky, we don't like to work and that fack has almost become a virtue. We are not agressive as going into another country are conquer it but fight very hard for the land on which we live on [As several peoples are scatered over several countries everyone thinks he is defending his possesion]. I would suggest a new form of writting for our chapter that would be used only by the to further protect their secrets and messages.

 

Since Cyrilic and Latin is quite common I would suggest a form of writting that is almost exctint - Glagolic.

 

On the matter of IG and PDF. We could state that troops of the world are on a continious crusade against Eldar and our chapter is in their support while in reality it would be the other way around.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Hrvat

[Commissar Molotov]

Would imperium allow it ? Marines to 'hi-jack' garrison world. As guard would lose a lots of tithed regiments. At least potentially. Marines might allow tithing regiments, BUT then it would be up to marines.

Hi-jack? I wouldn't say so. But then the Imperium wouldn't mind the fact that the bastion world is producing large numbers of excellent quality guardsmen. The arrangement works in the favour of the High Lords of Terra, so nothing's likely to happen. Plus, if it comes to it, we can mention in the IA that some are unhappy with the situation.

 

PDF is in command of governor, and tithed regimets at the hands of warmaster that is chosen by imperial policy. Having marines to tell guard where to go would disturb imperial practises. Having marines to go after tithed regiments they have sent away would feel bit odd too.

 

Well, there is only ever one Warmaster at a time, and sometimes there isn't even a warmaster - because some hate the title of Warmaster because Horus held it. Still, I know what you mean. My point is that these PDF are effectively getting training from Space Marines. I think that would last and endure when they were Guardsmen, especially if they were working alongside the War Bearers. If nothing else, the War Bearers are a welcome reminder of home.

 

Some sort of 'greater good' dogma? I mean, men are envious lot by nature. Look at most cultures on earth...

I mean, kids on earth make rucus if they are not chosen to baseball team. What would young boys of olde and noble families do when their (possible) dreams were crushed ?

Well, those selected for marine implantation would likely be seperated whilst all their surgeries and training are conducted. Yes, there might be some sour feelings, but for the most part we have a culture where people accept their situations and work to improve them. "The Emperor helps those who help themselves" and all. If it comes to it, a Space Marine with a power maul will be enough to quell any fights. I don't think that there would be any serious disciplinary problems in any such academy.

 

If the planet stands on a door to important space line, no foe X in needed, rather we have subset of foes {f1,f2,f3...,fn}

 

Certainly something to consider.

 

 

--------------------

 

I'm against making Biel-Tan their 'arch nemesis', for very simple reasons. We write up this IA article, and in the next Eldar Codex, GW goes "Oh, sorry, didn't we say? Biel-Tan got squished by Giant Monkeys of Doom." and we're stuck with a chapter whose fluff was crushed by GW re-writing a few sentences. Wherever possible it's best to fit the War Bearers into the spaces in the fluff.

 

You suggested making it a former Eldar world, but you didn't really explain why. Why would it be good to have Eldar as the arch-enemy? What do we gain from being another former Eldar world with mysterious artefacts buried under the surface?

 

With regards to no super-predators, I figured that as the world got more and more urbanised, most larger predators were exterminated by humans. It's what we're doing on Earth, and it fits with the Imperium's style.

 

Any centralised government would be broken down into smaller regional governments, as is the case with almost any nation. I don't think that's a major problem. It does fit with Keyoz' ideas of noble families from the various regions, though... and is quite similar to the Noble Houses of Necromunda's House Primus. I'm not so sure I like 'principalities'. How about there's various 'states', each presided over by a Noble House, which pays tribute to the Planetary Governor? It works well enough. Each of the families strives to outwit the others economically?

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Hrvat:

War Bearers recruiting from ex-Maiden (:ph34r:) world and having Eldar as their arch-enemies would suggest specialization in fighting against them and I think that they should be more versatile. The subset of enemies is better idea.

 

Cold climate is a good thing to fight the peasant clich

Edited July 18, 2006 by Keyoz Devastrius

[Ferrata]

*Ferrata walks in with a new idea*

 

I'm guessing many of you have read the old Tau codex (I'm not sure if the story is in the new one), were it has the training grounds, one from the Tau Point of view and one from the Imperial Fist Captain's. Now imagine a similiar situation, but for Imperial recruits. This world is particularly safe from any kind of outside attack, maybe it is close to the centre of a system and there are a number of protecting planets further out, put it has a large turn over of humans, so it has been turned into a training world. Now imagine the recruits from a young age play fighting and training, learning to fire guns at a young age etc. Now in the shadows a Marine Captain walks every so often, or maybe even scouts, and tells a training officer which boys he wants. These boys are then removed from the school and shipped to the Marines. Only the high ranking officers of the training system know about the Marines, but you will need to find a story about what happens to these boys from the trainee's point of view. Maybe they know they are taken to an elite training school, but they don't know its marines. This would make them try and be heroic all the time, to show off, not knowing that this is a mark down to the Marines, so only the team workers get selected.

 

Croats are not the only Slavs (see Polish Winged Hussars) that were good horseman but I don

[Hrvat]

Croats are not the only Slavs (see Polish Winged Hussars) that were good horseman but I don

Edited July 18, 2006 by Hrvat

[Zhivago]

Hi-jack? I wouldn't say so. But then the Imperium wouldn't mind the fact that the bastion world is producing large numbers of excellent quality guardsmen. The arrangement works in the favour of the High Lords of Terra, so nothing's likely to happen. Plus, if it comes to it, we can mention in the IA that some are unhappy with the situation.

@Molotov, I wonder if you missunderstood what I meant (or that I failed to explain it)

 

I mean that when there are no marines, imperium is free to draft regiments to service from there. Regularly. But AFTER marines get in, the regiments can't be shipped out without marine agreement, due the 'no tithes' thing. This is what I think might annoy the IG represantive at High Lords Table.

 

I'm against making Biel-Tan their 'arch nemesis', for very simple reasons. We write up this IA article, and in the next Eldar Codex, GW goes "Oh, sorry, didn't we say? Biel-Tan got squished by Giant Monkeys of Doom." and we're stuck with a chapter whose fluff was crushed by GW re-writing a few sentences. Wherever possible it's best to fit the War Bearers into the spaces in the fluff

 

Point I think. Just normal man held system. With few worlds and moons orbiting them.

 

Any centralised government would be broken down into smaller regional governments, as is the case with almost any nation. I don't think that's a major problem. It does fit with Keyoz' ideas of noble families from the various regions, though... and is quite similar to the Noble Houses of Necromunda's House Primus. I'm not so sure I like 'principalities'. How about there's various 'states', each presided over by a Noble House, which pays tribute to the Planetary Governor? It works well enough. Each of the families strives to outwit the others economically?

Add to that 'and politically'. Prehaps each state has numerous minor houses whom compete on political level to get the position of 'noble house'. Such changes would be rare, but possible. Men are bound to scheme against ulterior power, this gives people something to do and adds realism. Not all people are willing subjects.

 

 

"The Emperor helps those who help themselves" and all. If it comes to it, a Space Marine with a power maul will be enough to quell any fights. I don't think that there would be any serious disciplinary problems in any such academy.

 

The E helps those whom help themselves. :( Might lead to a situation where younger (under 14) and not chosen might plot 'accidents' (like in thoose for freshly chosen marine candidates. To get place in the sun forthemselves. This of course would end system that creates cunning and sly initiates. Nothing that can't be fixed with psychotherapy, but...

 

The point about marines with power mauls is valid in normal situations, in bright daylight.

[Grimdarkness]

I mean that when there are no marines, imperium is free to draft regiments to service from there. Regularly. But AFTER marines get in, the regiments can't be shipped out without marine agreement, due the 'no tithes' thing. This is what I think might annoy the IG representative at High Lords Table

 

I don't think so rynn's world is still under the leadership of there planetary governor all the crimson fist's wanted was to build a fortress monastery for the recruits from blackfalls blackwater the feral planet they recruit from.

 

As for the petty jealousy thing would not the marines move the new neophyte ahead since the implation put the recruit a head above the rest of his class faster stronger tougher so put him in with the 16-18 year olds. But then i thought we wanted a group feel maybe those chosen are put into a class with the other's picked out they continue there training at the academy but under the eye of a trainee Sargent. It allows the marines and the guard to work toghter and to start life long working relations so that when a regiments from world X and the WB are part of the same campaign there is little of the suspicion mistrust hero worship that Marines engender.

 

One last thing is it the climate and the tundra that breed hardy people's or is it there out look and work ethics?

 

Is the sugar cane farmer any less robust then his north American or European counterpart?

[Zhivago]

I don't think so rynn's world is still under the leadership of there planetary governor all the crimson fist's wanted was to build a fortress monastery for the recruits from blackfalls blackwater the feral planet they recruit from.

That's not the point. The point is that marine home-worlds are free from tithes. No tithes, no regiments. We can assume that marines WOULD allow it. But High Lords could not be sure of it, and thus see it as a potential risk of hampering imperial forces in that part of galaxy. They'd be afraid they'd have huge amount of prime quality regiments, that they cannot ship for their needs.

 

As for the petty jealousy thing would not the marines move the new neophyte ahead since the implation put the recruit a head above the rest of his class faster stronger tougher so put him in with the 16-18 year olds.

 

There'd be still chances of 'elimination' at barracks (sleeping quorters) OR in the war games. And as implants are NOT implanted smae time, but on a span of years, a fresh initiate would not much differ from thoose not chosen.

 

EDIT: grammar.

 

I'm not as per against the idea of garrison world as home world, I'm just pointing out things that might be considered in the fluff. Same goes for co-training with guard.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Zhivago

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Grimdarkness:

One last thing is it the climate and the tundra that breed hardy people's or is it there out look and work ethics?

 

Is the sugar cane farmer any less robust then his north American or European counterpart?

The environment can favor some outlooks and work ethics over other. I think that in harsh environment it is harder to survive and people rely more on working together. If you are not hard and don

[iron father]

The environment can favor some outlooks and work ethics over other. I think that in harsh environment it is harder to survive and people rely more on working together. If you are not hard and don

[Big Woop]

This is way off topic, but polish cavalry charging german tanks is nothing but a myth :P. Cavalry served as mobile infantry. Of course there were sporadic cavalry charges in WWII, but only a blind man would charge a tank.

 

What if the noble houses on the planet have managed to manouevre themselves so that they partly control the local guard regiments? This could be an alternative to the rival kingdoms approach, the government being centralized(wouldn't that be required for a strategically important planet?) but since it's a garrison world, the guard regiments forms a state within the state.

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Big Woop:

What if the noble houses on the planet have managed to manouevre themselves so that they partly control the local guard regiments?

Me:

-big scattered cities-fortresses of noble families

-all males are soldiers and members of PDF trained in military academies

-nobles are officers ,their subjects make something like city regiments

 

 

iron father:

That argument has actually been refuted in an academic setting. For the reason why, read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel. However, this is a fantasy world, so if we want to stick with the myth that cold, harsh environments foster progress in societies it will at least make sense to most people reading it.

 

I

[Grimdarkness]

The first need of a man is the need to eat-in harsh environment there is less food and it is tougher to get it so people have to work together. In warm climate people can pick fruits and sow fields-they live together because they want to not because they have to, and have more time for social activities, religion, philosophy etc- see the cradles of civilisation

Edited July 18, 2006 by Grimdarkness

[Commissar Molotov]

There are no royals on this homeworld. Please leave the irrelevances out of this thread. None of this is relevant. It was stated previously that all boys from the age of eight were inducted into the academies, irrelevant of class. It matters little to the marines whether their newest inductee is a highborn noble or the lowest gutter slave. The Space Marines are a meritocracy. Edited July 18, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Grimdarkness]

So the society is based somewhat on the Celt's or Cossacks who for in the case of the Celt's a child's eduction was incomplete without some sort of combat training. Or even the Mongolian born in the saddle or is that too young. Or something closer to the German Hitler youth which served as a jump off point into the army or S.S. If it was up to me I'd look closer at the German model as it taught everything thought of on the topic so far teamwork a sense of national pride. The soviet's had something similar but i know Little to nothing about it.

 

I am only suggesting i in no way condone what transpired during those dark days in any way by either of the two modern society's i put forth.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Grimdarkness