State of the Union (Heresy)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I wanted to have the new Legion rules from Valrak's video down on paper so I transcribed the contents/ made them clearer in the context of current rules where I could:

Dark Angels:

* New Legion Trait: every unit unless specified on their unit entry can select a single Hexagrammaton Wing which will confer a specific bonus - e.g Firewing = +1 to wound against units containing a model with the Independent Character special rule

* Unique Reaction “Angels of Death”: when a charge is declared against a unit with the Legiones Astartes: Dark Angels special rule that unit must take a Leadership test - if passed the unit being charged gains the Fearless & Fear special rules, if failed it gains Stubborn & Fear instead

* Warlord Trait 1: All Dark Angels units in the detachment gain +1 Ld while in line of sight of the Warlord, and the Warlord can take an additional reaction in a specific phase dependant upon which Hexagrammaton Wing they have selected

* Warlord Trait 2: Select a single faction (e.g Legiones Astartes), once per battle for a single turn the Warlord and any unit they have joined can increased either their WS or BS when targetting units which belong to the selected faction - the Warlord can also take an additional reaction during the Assault phase

* Unique Consul (+30 points): may select an Order of the Hekatonystika option for free, increases WS to 6 & Ld to 10, must take a Terranic Greatsword

White Scars:

* New Legion Trait: every unit with the Legiones Astartes: White Scars special rule increases their movement characteristic by 1”, and whenever rolling to decide first player/ seize the initiative, a White Scars playermay roll two dice and discard the lowest

* Unique Reaction: when an enemy unit moves within 12” of a unit with the Legiones Astartes: White Scars special rule, all friendly units within 12” inches of the enemy unit may immediately make a normal move (jump infantry can choose to activate their jump packs as part of this) - all units which do so cannot run this turn

* Warlord Trait 1 (Loyalist only): this model & any unit they join are Stubborn, if this model is slain every Legiones Astartes: White Scars unit within Line of Sight gains the Fearless special rule for the remainder of the battle - may also make an additional reaction during the assault phase

* Warlord Trait 2: this model & any unit their join ignore all difficult terrain rules & gain a +4 (invulnerable?) save against wounds inflicted by dangerous terrain - gain an additional reaction during the movement phase

* Warlord Trait 3 (Traitors Only): when this army includes a Sons of Horus allied detachment, the Warlord & any unit they join automatically pass any morale or pinning tests they are required to make

* Chogorian Brotherhood Rite Alterations: Bikes & Jetbikes gain the Line special rule & the detachment may not take any Heavy Support or Fortification choices unless they have the Fly keyword

* Sagyar Mazan Rite Alterations: Ebon Keshig may only be taken as troop choices in this detachment and all such units gain the Fearless special rule during the assault phase

* Stormseer Consul (+45 points): gains the Psyker & Adamantium Will special rules, may take a Psychic Hood for +20 points, gains access to two new White Scars psychic powers

 

Space Wolves

* New Legion Trait: any Legiones Astartes: Space Wolves unit which chooses to Run may still make a shooting attack in the shooting phase (resolved as Snap Shots) and may still declare a Charge in the assault phase - any such units which cannot Run (e.g Cataphractii terminators) instead gain +1 WS on any turn in which they Charge, even if it is a Disordered Charge

* Unique Reaction: once per battle if any enemy model starts it’s movement within 12” of at least one Legiones Astartes: Space Wolves unit, a single such unit can make a move equal to or less than it’s highest Initiative value in inches & then make a charge against the triggering unit (charge is resolved immediately, assault continues as normal in the assault phase)

* Warlord Trait 1: this warlord gains an additional wound at the end of an assault phase in which they inflict at least one unsaved wound on an enemy model - can’t bring the warlord above their starting wounds value, instead conferring +1 Str on melee attacks until the end of the turn if triggered before the model has lost any wounds - can also make an additional reaction during the assault phase

* Warlord Trait 2 “The Howl of Morkai”: once per battle, all friendly Legiones Astartes: Space Wolves models gain +1 Str if they successfully charge an enemy unit that turn - may also carry out an additional Reaction during the movement phase

* Warlord Trait 3: the Warlord & any unit they join gain Preferred Enemy (Independent Characters) as well as a 4+ Feel No Pain save while locked in a combat against any Independent Character - may also carry out an additional Reaction during the movement phase

* Jarl Praetor Upgrade (+10 points): gains Counterattack, may also be given the Skirmish subtype at no additional cost

* Pack Thane Consul (+10 points): gains Counterattack, may also be given the Skirmish subtype at no additional cost, cannot take a Bike/ Jetbike

* Speaker of the Dead Consul (+65 points): consul & any unit they join gain the Hatred (Everything!) & Stubborn special rules, consul also gains a master-crafted power maul

* Caster of Runes Consul (+45 points): gains the Psyker subtype, must select one of 4 psychic disciplines, may take a psychic hood for +20 points

* “Grey Stalker” Unit (may just be Grey Slayer Alterations): unit with Relentless, Counterattack & Heart of the Legion special rules, chainswords & bolt pistols (any may take bolters/ swap chainswords for power weapons), one in 5 can take a special weapon

 

Imperial Fists:

* New Legion Trait: all Legiones Astartes: Imperial Fists models gain +1 to hit with all Auto or Bolt weapons when conducting a shooting attack (including during reactions)

* Unique Reaction: when an enemy unit moves within 10” or (and?) within line of sight of an Imperial Fists unit, may immediately declare a Charge with said unit as if it was the owning player’s assault phase - charge distance is d6 + unit’s lowest unmodified Initiative value in inches (rules like Hammer of Wrath & charge bonuses do apply), if successful the ongoing combat is resolved as normal during the assault phase, if failed no surge move is made

* Warlord Trait 1 “Solar Marshal” (Loyalist only): warlord & any unit they join gain +1 WS when locked in combat with any Traitor allegiance unit - may also make an additional reaction in any of their opponent’s phases

* Warlord Trait 2: when within 6” of an Objective/ while within their own Deployment Zone, the Warlord & any unit they join may auto-pass any Morale & Pinning tests they are required to make - may also make an additional reaction during the assault phase

* Warlord Trait 3: warlord & any unit they join may re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 while they are within an area of terrain which is conferring them a cover save/ embarked within a Fortification - may also make an additional reaction during the shooting phase

* Stone Gauntlet Rite Alterations: Phalanx Warders gain the Line and Heart of the Legion special rules, models with Boarding Shields in unit coherency with at least 2 other models also equipped with Boarding Shields may re-roll all failed Invulnerable saves against shooting attacks/ attacks made during the Fight Sub-Phase (re-rolls cannot be made if the unit has made a Run/ Charge/ Sweeping Advance move)

* Illiastus Pattern Assault Cannon Alterations: now Assault 4 rather than Heavy, Malfunction now confers the Gets Hot! rule to any shooting attacks made with the weapon as part of a Reaction

* Castellan Consul (+20 points): model gains the Fire Support special rule & the Heavy unit sub-type, can take either a master-crafted heavy bolter or autocannon - can increase the number of attack rolls made by a heavy weapon by 1 (that they’re equipped with? by a unit they’ve joined? idk) when making a shooting attack - any Legion Heavy Support squad they join gains the Line sub-type

[Slips]

Hmmm Im expecting to see a lot more leaked info start to trickle out now.

 

I'm liking what I've seen so far tbh but will reserve judgement until I get the full picture.

[No Foes Remain]

Yeah, that all is looking pretty good so far. Seems to be curbing the Legion rules creep into passive buffs and levelled all around which is nice, I also LOVE the idea of Legion specific Consuls.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Yeah, that all is looking pretty good so far. Seems to be curbing the Legion rules creep into passive buffs and levelled all around which is nice, I also LOVE the idea of Legion specific Consuls.

 

yeah legion-specific consuls is something I've been designing for years, so it's nice to see them getting rolled out for all the legions, there's some obvious ones like the Castellan/ Storm Seer but I'm very curious what direction they're gonna go for some of the Legions

 

fingers crossed we finally find out what an Iron Hands Ironwrought is

[No Foes Remain]

 

Yeah, that all is looking pretty good so far. Seems to be curbing the Legion rules creep into passive buffs and levelled all around which is nice, I also LOVE the idea of Legion specific Consuls.

 

yeah legion-specific consuls is something I've been designing for years, so it's nice to see them getting rolled out for all the legions, there's some obvious ones like the Castellan/ Storm Seer but I'm very curious what direction they're gonna go for some of the Legions

 

fingers crossed we finally find out what an Iron Hands Ironwrought is

 

 

Yeah, looking forward to seeing what the other Legions will get. I do wonder whether they will get models or just rules.

[Noserenda]

It does seem like some of those are replacing generic consuls that lack minis, I'd hope there's a way for the castellan one to get an assault cannon though :D

[Yodhrin]

 

Yeah, that all is looking pretty good so far. Seems to be curbing the Legion rules creep into passive buffs and levelled all around which is nice, I also LOVE the idea of Legion specific Consuls.

 

yeah legion-specific consuls is something I've been designing for years, so it's nice to see them getting rolled out for all the legions, there's some obvious ones like the Castellan/ Storm Seer but I'm very curious what direction they're gonna go for some of the Legions

 

fingers crossed we finally find out what an Iron Hands Ironwrought is

 

 

I hope not, I've been using the name Ironwrought in my fluff for ages, I should have dibs

Edited February 27, 2022 by Yodhrin

[Slips]

The IF LA Rule boosting Bolt and 'Auto' weapons by +1BS is neat. If I had to hazard a guess, Id assume things like, Autocannons fall into that category. If so, that does make IF HSS squads a have a lot more viable weapon options that can actually make use of their LA rules, among other things. 

 

The BS bonus also applying during "Reactions" makes me thing this would also apply to Overwatch if that gets turned into a reaction (which, currently, is kinda what it is - its a reaction to being the target of a charge). 

 

So, neat! The LA Reaction is also neat and, Stone Gauntlet now adding Phalanx Warders as being valid compulsory troops for it instead of JUST breachers is a godsend because I have Warders but no breachers.

 

I AM PRAYING THAT HAMMERFALL STRIKEFORCE IS UPDATED TO NOT BEING HOT GARBAGE PLEASE I BEG FW PELASE

Edited February 27, 2022 by Slips

[ShadowCore67]

Extremely preemptive opinion on the new firewing rule being bad, especially if making an entire firewing themed list. Most lists only have 1 or 2 independent characters. I will say it's pretty thematic and I like that.

 

Overall though I'm pretty into these changes. Can't wait to see the rest of the legions.

Edited February 28, 2022 by ShadowCore67

[Hfran Morkai]

Interesting there's no mention of the Speaker of the Dead doing anything regards healing given they've (well "Wolf Priests") have always been a mix of Chaplain and Apothecary. I hope there's still something in there.

[Astartes Consul]

I wanted to have the new Legion rules from Valrak's video down on paper so I transcribed the contents/ made them clearer in the context of current rules where I could:

 

Dark Angels:

* New Legion Trait: every unit unless specified on their unit entry can select a single Hexagrammaton Wing which will confer a specific bonus - e.g Firewing = +1 to wound against units containing a model with the Independent Character special rule

* Unique Reaction “Angels of Death”: when a charge is declared against a unit with the Legiones Astartes: Dark Angels special rule that unit must take a Leadership test - if passed the unit being charged gains the Fearless & Fear special rules, if failed it gains Stubborn & Fear instead

* Warlord Trait 1: All Dark Angels units in the detachment gain +1 Ld while in line of sight of the Warlord, and the Warlord can take an additional reaction in a specific phase dependant upon which Hexagrammaton Wing they have selected

* Warlord Trait 2: Select a single faction (e.g Legiones Astartes), once per battle for a single turn the Warlord and any unit they have joined can increased either their WS or BS when targetting units which belong to the selected faction - the Warlord can also take an additional reaction during the Assault phase

* Unique Consul (+30 points): may select an Order of the Hekatonystika option for free, increases WS to 6 & Ld to 10, must take a Terranic Greatsword

 

White Scars:

* New Legion Trait: every unit with the Legiones Astartes: White Scars special rule increases their movement characteristic by 1”, and whenever rolling to decide first player/ seize the initiative, a White Scars playermay roll two dice and discard the lowest

* Unique Reaction: when an enemy unit moves within 12” of a unit with the Legiones Astartes: White Scars special rule, all friendly units within 12” inches of the enemy unit may immediately make a normal move (jump infantry can choose to activate their jump packs as part of this) - all units which do so cannot run this turn

* Warlord Trait 1 (Loyalist only): this model & any unit they join are Stubborn, if this model is slain every Legiones Astartes: White Scars unit within Line of Sight gains the Fearless special rule for the remainder of the battle - may also make an additional reaction during the assault phase

* Warlord Trait 2: this model & any unit their join ignore all difficult terrain rules & gain a +4 (invulnerable?) save against wounds inflicted by dangerous terrain - gain an additional reaction during the movement phase

* Warlord Trait 3 (Traitors Only): when this army includes a Sons of Horus allied detachment, the Warlord & any unit they join automatically pass any morale or pinning tests they are required to make

* Chogorian Brotherhood Rite Alterations: Bikes & Jetbikes gain the Line special rule & the detachment may not take any Heavy Support or Fortification choices unless they have the Fly keyword

* Sagyar Mazan Rite Alterations: Ebon Keshig may only be taken as troop choices in this detachment and all such units gain the Fearless special rule during the assault phase

* Stormseer Consul (+45 points): gains the Psyker & Adamantium Will special rules, may take a Psychic Hood for +20 points, gains access to two new White Scars psychic powers

 

Space Wolves

* New Legion Trait: any Legiones Astartes: Space Wolves unit which chooses to Run may still make a shooting attack in the shooting phase (resolved as Snap Shots) and may still declare a Charge in the assault phase - any such units which cannot Run (e.g Cataphractii terminators) instead gain +1 WS on any turn in which they Charge, even if it is a Disordered Charge

* Unique Reaction: once per battle if any enemy model starts it’s movement within 12” of at least one Legiones Astartes: Space Wolves unit, a single such unit can make a move equal to or less than it’s highest Initiative value in inches & then make a charge against the triggering unit (charge is resolved immediately, assault continues as normal in the assault phase)

* Warlord Trait 1: this warlord gains an additional wound at the end of an assault phase in which they inflict at least one unsaved wound on an enemy model - can’t bring the warlord above their starting wounds value, instead conferring +1 Str on melee attacks until the end of the turn if triggered before the model has lost any wounds - can also make an additional reaction during the assault phase

* Warlord Trait 2 “The Howl of Morkai”: once per battle, all friendly Legiones Astartes: Space Wolves models gain +1 Str if they successfully charge an enemy unit that turn - may also carry out an additional Reaction during the movement phase

* Warlord Trait 3: the Warlord & any unit they join gain Preferred Enemy (Independent Characters) as well as a 4+ Feel No Pain save while locked in a combat against any Independent Character - may also carry out an additional Reaction during the movement phase

* Jarl Praetor Upgrade (+10 points): gains Counterattack, may also be given the Skirmish subtype at no additional cost

* Pack Thane Consul (+10 points): gains Counterattack, may also be given the Skirmish subtype at no additional cost, cannot take a Bike/ Jetbike

* Speaker of the Dead Consul (+65 points): consul & any unit they join gain the Hatred (Everything!) & Stubborn special rules, consul also gains a master-crafted power maul

* Caster of Runes Consul (+45 points): gains the Psyker subtype, must select one of 4 psychic disciplines, may take a psychic hood for +20 points

* “Grey Stalker” Unit (may just be Grey Slayer Alterations): unit with Relentless, Counterattack & Heart of the Legion special rules, chainswords & bolt pistols (any may take bolters/ swap chainswords for power weapons), one in 5 can take a special weapon

 

Imperial Fists:

* New Legion Trait: all Legiones Astartes: Imperial Fists models gain +1 to hit with all Auto or Bolt weapons when conducting a shooting attack (including during reactions)

* Unique Reaction: when an enemy unit moves within 10” or (and?) within line of sight of an Imperial Fists unit, may immediately declare a Charge with said unit as if it was the owning player’s assault phase - charge distance is d6 + unit’s lowest unmodified Initiative value in inches (rules like Hammer of Wrath & charge bonuses do apply), if successful the ongoing combat is resolved as normal during the assault phase, if failed no surge move is made

* Warlord Trait 1 “Solar Marshal” (Loyalist only): warlord & any unit they join gain +1 WS when locked in combat with any Traitor allegiance unit - may also make an additional reaction in any of their opponent’s phases

* Warlord Trait 2: when within 6” of an Objective/ while within their own Deployment Zone, the Warlord & any unit they join may auto-pass any Morale & Pinning tests they are required to make - may also make an additional reaction during the assault phase

* Warlord Trait 3: warlord & any unit they join may re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 while they are within an area of terrain which is conferring them a cover save/ embarked within a Fortification - may also make an additional reaction during the shooting phase

* Stone Gauntlet Rite Alterations: Phalanx Warders gain the Line and Heart of the Legion special rules, models with Boarding Shields in unit coherency with at least 2 other models also equipped with Boarding Shields may re-roll all failed Invulnerable saves against shooting attacks/ attacks made during the Fight Sub-Phase (re-rolls cannot be made if the unit has made a Run/ Charge/ Sweeping Advance move)

* Illiastus Pattern Assault Cannon Alterations: now Assault 4 rather than Heavy, Malfunction now confers the Gets Hot! rule to any shooting attacks made with the weapon as part of a Reaction

* Castellan Consul (+20 points): model gains the Fire Support special rule & the Heavy unit sub-type, can take either a master-crafted heavy bolter or autocannon - can increase the number of attack rolls made by a heavy weapon by 1 (that they’re equipped with? by a unit they’ve joined? idk) when making a shooting attack - any Legion Heavy Support squad they join gains the Line sub-type

 

 

There are some really cool bits here, but I'm a bit sceptical of the level of detail so taking it with a healthy dose of salt.

[sarabando]

well Fafnir rann is getting an autocannon then :D 

[Gorgoff]

Honestly i wouldnt be sad to see both of those upgrades go, Extra armour is such a no brainer on any tank you want to keep mobile that its more a flaw in the vehicle damage table than a real option, its also available to pretty much everything so its not even really a design choice, not extra just armour. :D

 

Armoured ceramite is a bit more complicated, it works on specialist stuff but widely available it falls down because one of the pillars of Imperial AT is Melta weapons, except they arent because anything worth blowing up has a cheap upgrade that nigh on nullifies them completely.

I don't know what you are talking about. S8 DS1 even without melta rule is still enough to kill most tanks. You just have to shoot them in the side or rear armor. Yes, a Spartan with AC is a tough nut to crack but on most vehicles, walkers and such AC makes absolutely no sense because it makes the vehicle way too expensive. I think it is the other way round. Putting AC on every vehicle is a classical thing to do for new players because they don't know what is meat und what is fat in a list.

 

Regarding the rumors. I do hope those are fake. Neither do my tanks have sponsons nor do any of my speaker of death have a Power Maul.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Noserenda]

Thus me saying specifically "anything worth killing" av12 stuff dies in a moderate breeze, you don't need a high risk, high reward weapon like a melta for them. Superheavies and land raider chassis is exactly the problem and they are always worth the minimal points investment.

[Gorgoff]

Thus me saying specifically "anything worth killing" av12 stuff dies in a moderate breeze, you don't need a high risk, high reward weapon like a melta for them. Superheavies and land raider chassis is exactly the problem and they are always worth the minimal points investment.

Then I completely misunderstood you. Absolutely correct.

[bushman101]

Looks like some more pics in the other thread.

The new WS chart might trip me up. Looks familiar but the numbers are tweaked

[Gorgoff]

Looks like some more pics in the other thread.

The new WS chart might trip me up. Looks familiar but the numbers are tweaked

It is more like the to wound chart, something I discussed just last week with some others. If true that is a very good thing. Getting hit on fives instead of fours is a very nice protection for your Praetor and other WS 6 dudes. That one measly sergeant with a Power fist will kick the ass of a 230+ points charakters won't happen so often anymore.

[Spagunk]

I'm hyped. I feel like reactions are in a way better way than "strategems" to have solved that issue. Much like Rights of War for managing "detachments", this seems like a good step without going overboard. Still remains to be seen how each legion is balanced but I feel like this is a good improvement.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Spagunk

[Dagoth Ur]

I'm hyped. I feel like reactions are a way better way than "strategems" to have solved that issue. Much like Rights of War for managing "detachments", this seems like a good step without going overboard. Still remains to be seen how each legion is balanced but I feel like this is a good improvement.

This. I feel like what the Rites of War are to the horrific Decurions of old, these Reactions could be to Stratagems.

[bushman101]

 

Looks like some more pics in the other thread.

The new WS chart might trip me up. Looks familiar but the numbers are tweaked

It is more like the to wound chart, something I discussed just last week with some others. If true that is a very good thing. Getting hit on fives instead of fours is a very nice protection for your Praetor and other WS 6 dudes. That one measly sergeant with a Power fist will kick the ass of a 230+ points charakters won't happen so often anymore.

I mean, I agree. But old habits die hard

[Astartes Consul]

I'm hyped. I feel like reactions are a way better way than "strategems" to have solved that issue. Much like Rights of War for managing "detachments", this seems like a good step without going overboard. Still remains to be seen how each legion is balanced but I feel like this is a good improvement.

 

As long as they keep Legion specific reactions limited in terms of numbers, I think it has the potential to nicely add flavour to games.

[bushman101]

I'm hyped. I feel like reactions are a way better way than "strategems" to have solved that issue. Much like Rights of War for managing "detachments", this seems like a good step without going overboard. Still remains to be seen how each legion is balanced but I feel like this is a good improvement.

The Space Wolf unique Reaction looks really strong. I'm hoping it's more balanced on the table than what I see in my mind

[jaxom]

If you haven’t, check out AoS core rules. I have a feeling it’s where the Reaction inspiration came from.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Personally, I think this is all pretty great. Reactions are decisions giving real tactical options (shooting, movement, etc.) for a mild mix of alternative activations, with the ability to make things like pinning shut it down. As shown now, not seeing 'superpowers' like 40k strategems. Big thing as said is ensuring Legions/factions don't get too many additional options bolted on. The resource looks to be limited to a max of three per phase, which is good.

 

All the other changes I like so far, WS chart is much better, and dreads should be monstrous creatures if Mechanicum robots are. Likely removing units with bases from having facings is good overall.

 

Movement characteristic on the datasheet doesn't much matter to me. That's not a hill I'd die on.

 

Overall presentation seems to be very clean and concise.

Edited March 2, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Brofist]

Man I love what I'm seeing so far