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Reading up on Abaddon's Black Crusades, the 10th Black Crusade (also called the Conflict of Helica) was a conflict that broke into the Medusa system. Abaddon and the Black Legion made an alliance with the Iron Warriors and launched an assault on the Iron Hands. From what I can tell - the Black Legion fleet distracts other forces, the Chaos forces devastate the Medusa system, and then they retreat before the bulk of the Iron Hands chapter and their allies arrive to relieve the siege. There isn't much information that I can find online, but I was wondering if someone with the Iron Hands supplement, or at least more familiar with the Iron Hands lore, can provide a better account of the 10th Black Crusade and what happened in the Medusa system? (Apologies if this is the wrong subforum)

How to you view Ferrus Manus and his personality? I was reading the thread about Ferrus's eyes and general portrayal complaints (most of which I agree with), and thought this would be an interesting discussion topic. I really like hearing other people's perspectives on the characters in the 40k lore, because we all interpret it a little differently. So, what do you imagine Ferrus to be like? Does your army view him the same way? For sake of generating interest, here's a bit of my opinion: We know that so many of the Primarchs harbored secret fears and doubts, and I think Ferrus was actually very similar to Fulgrim in this sense, plagued by a fear of inadequacy, and a growing obsession with bettering himself. Obviously different personalities meant different approaches: Fulgrim needing to be good at everything by doing everything, Ferrus needing to be the best by stripping away anything that would weaken him, but both fueled by a sense of being an "innate" failure. (It's a pretty common psychological trait in perfectionists, ofc.) I view him not as hating things that were "frivolous", and maybe even really liking art and such, but chose to reject them anyway due to their lack of practicality - and Emperor forbid if we make a slip. This would be why he and Fulgrim got along so well, of course, and why he got along well with someone who, on the surface, he should dislike. Fulgrim regularly showed him the practical value and application of things Ferrus dismissed, which I think writers have shown (more or less). Why wear fancy-pants armor? Because troops need pride and inspiration. For example. I liked the Nemurial Scrolls concept (though I too despise the overused "hoist by own bionic pertard" trope) because it was similar to my own view, and also that it showed he wasn't as cold and harsh as he carried himself and was genuinely concerned for his Legion and his brothers. One could argue that they sort of....approached this idea in Feat of Iron, I also like the idea they've touched on with a lot of the Primarchs, that each was hiding some Problem in themselves and their Legion but was putting it off instead of dealing with it. As for the Iron Hands himself, I always got the impression that, beyond strict adherence to his rules, Ferrus let them play whatever stupid squabble games they wanted to do and stayed out of it, because he felt the struggle made them stronger in the end - they weeded themselves out. And that this was general Medusan culture - that they survived harsh conditions by being dogged (and relying on their own technological creations). What I mean is, Ferrus figured that B.S. had a way of weeding itself out if one stayed focused. But, of course, this wasn't happening, and new problems started presenting themselves in the legion prior the Heresy, which surely he knew about, whether or not he blamed the "reliance on technology" or rejection of humanity or whatever. I'd actually presume he would more likely have blamed himself: failure to lead, being to soft, something he was at fault for. Like his metal arms that were something out of his control, he would blame himself for outside problems. Maybe for not being able to control everything? I also imagine him to actually be a really funny guy, in a Laconic way, which they give snippets of in some stories but I don't think they show enough. He was the Sparta to Fulgrim's Attic salt, of course. (I also don't think he was so darn mad all the time, just a grump who was quick to point out malarkey.) I liked that Iron Hands character that made dry jokes in machine voice, and people weren't sure he was joking. (I forget what his name was.) (For the Tabletop, though, I like my armies obsessive and hypocritical, because I think it's funny, but that wouldn't have been true in the year 30K.) I didn't mean to write an essay, sorry. Share your thoughts! (New to the forum but not in the game, so, hello!)

I know I have a long dead topic lying somewhere in the bowels of Works in Progress, so mods do let me know me if I should just combine the two. Long story short, I've moved countries and after many shipments of models back and forth I've started to finally get my hobby set up going again. I've been intending to start an Iron Hands army ever since I got back into the hobby, but time and money meant I decided to muck around with my old Space Wolves army as practice before committing to a buying a new project. Battle of Calth changed all of that and I was impressed enough to impulse purchase it, so I don't have much of an excuse anymore to hold off starting the Iron Tenth I've been dreaming to build ever since 3rd edition! Still working on a backstory for my Clan, but I'm gearing to making them obsessed with seeking out Archeotech to explain the use of the MK IV bits and Contemptor from BoC and extensive kitbashing. Here are the first two tacticals I've made so far. Base is just temporary. http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/MosesGn/IMG_0188_zpsxiwq3jxo.jpg http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/MosesGn/fa73a9c1-d657-4465-a730-8463b117ea68_zpsocdctbpo.jpg http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/MosesGn/IMG_0190_zpsjkrlf5xz.jpg Be good to hear any comments and criticism. I'm still unsure about the servo skull on the back of the first marine so any opinions on that would be much appreciated!

Hello everyone! As a person who is constructing a force of Emperor's Children at them moment (And who vowed for Dark Angels for etl...) I was curious what makes Iron Hands special. I understand they have close ties with the mechanicus, so I could see someone making an allied force. However, if one were to make a fluffy Iron Hands force that still has some bite what would it have? Dreadnoughts? Techmarines? On a side note, I am confused as to the roles of the iron fathers. I have read that they are a chaplain/ techmarine hybrid, but at the same time I also read they are most similar to a captain of their company. Thanks! ~Sapphon

+Update+ This has turned into a mini blog; so I've changed the title. Since it's solely focussed on Iron hands, and will be as much asking for background advice and guidance as modelling and painting, is it okay here rather than in the painting forum? +++ As a little side project, I'm painting up some Iron Hands, and would appreciate some help on iconography. As I understand things, the Chapter symbol goes on the left-hand pauldron, the clan Company symbol on the right, the squad number on the lower right leg and the squad designation on the lower left. Is that broadly correct? Here's the test model as he currently stands; awaiting iconography and detailing. I've used white on the pauldron trims to help distinguish him from Raven Guard, and was considering some classic Rogue Trader helmet stripes. Anything jumping out as screamingly wrong? I'm aware the clan Company organisation allows for quite a bit of freedom in terms of iconography and decoration, but it's nice to know the rules before you adapt them. To whet your appetites, here's some WIP stuff at an earlier stage. Hope you like 'em! Tacticals: Scouts: (You can probably ignore the White Consul lurking in the back; he'll be repainted to join the Tenth.) Captain: If you'd like to see any more, or read some unrelated thoughts on Iron Hands, there's more WIP on my blog (link in the signature)

So I've been a little busy with a Clan Raukaan project, And thought I'd share the Start of my own Iron hands. After reading the Novel Wrath Of Iron I've felt extremly compelled to create a Clan Raukaan themed Army. I Love Terminators and the idea of the hq wearing terminator armour has always been appealing to me. So naturally Arven Rauth was my Favorite character in the story. Although I will be making My very own Telach and his Codicers as they were also a HUGE and awesome part of the story. Generally I don't take kindly to psykers coming from the Templar forums, but they were so freaking awesome I couldn't leave them out. So before I post anything I want to thank the Iron hands forum in general for all the great an inspirational work that I've found here. I've been browsing lots of threads and forums for ideas and interesting conversions. One of which was the most helpful from Cortons ETL thread, he mentioned using watch parts so I picked some up from Ebay. So Here is what I've started so far, This will be used in an up and coming escalation league that me and my friends are playing, and I'm hoping it will be a change of pace from the Templar. http://i.imgur.com/cqb9C4G.jpg?1 The man himself, Arven Rauth. While he doesn't have the storm bolter he does in the story I felt like betrayers Bane would be a cool way to step away from my standard th/ss loadout I always take. Now maybe the servo doesn't fit, but I thought it was too cool to leave off the model. http://i.imgur.com/K35aPpE.jpg?1 Clave Arx, Lead by Brother-Sergeant Naim Morvox http://i.imgur.com/chCVW7o.jpg And finally Venerable Brother Khatir. I felt it Fitting for the Iron Father to be the First of Any Dreadnought I field. http://i.imgur.com/1ijrYg5.jpg It might be a while Before I get some paint on these Guys with being Locked in the Templar ETL it feels like I'm cheating on my other army just by building these guys. But I couldn't help myself. Either way I'll probably end up sneaking some iron hands into my painting projects inbetween the Templar. So I'll keep you guys updated! More to come! Imperator Vult!

So I keep hearing that Stronos said that we need to dial it back on the whole bionics thing. I have not seen that reference at all, so if someone could provide a page number in the codex and quote the specific sentence that would help a brother a lot. Secondly, I know all of us were... hesitant to accept Stronos when the 6th ed codex came out. My reason for resistance was the fact that it was mentioned that he was trying to dial it back on bionics. However that was when I had no codex and had to rely on second hand info. Once I read the codex and saw no mention of the sort, I calmed down :P Honestly, I like Stronos. I like the fact that he wants the chapter to master emotion, not just discard it. Its how I envisioned our chapter anyway. I never liked the whole emotionless character that the IH in Wrath of Iron had. After burning with the need for vengeance and hatred towards certain legions for 10,000 years (They know what they did! ), it just wouldn't make sense for the Iron hands not to be full of contempt and rage. Controlling that rage and using it to your advantage is... logical. So aside from that weird bit about dialing back about bionics (which needs to be resolved as to whether its true or not), I don't see a reason to dislike our democratically elected Chapter Master.

So.....I've been wanting to challenge myself for a while now and part of this will be trying to model a viable Iron Hands army based around The Crusade of Steel. For anyone who's yet to read the codex here's the brief summary we find: " Kardan Stronos leads the full might of the Iron Hands and Brazen Claws chapters against the Necron dynasty of the Crimson King. Stronos refuses to fall back in the face of a massive counter-attack, and alongside Garrsak Clan Company he somehow fights his way to strike the Crimson King a mortal blow that shatters the Necron's command structure." I chose this excerpt to base my army around as it is a snippet with quite a open scope I think. As it's a small mention it gives me a great chance to explore some concepts. To begin with I have the new strike force box set, 2 sets of the IH upgrade packs and also I think one of the old battle forces. What I really need is your help! - what other fluff exists for the Crusade of Steel? - modelling ideas for Necron gauss blast damage on power armour? - army list ideas to reflect fluff and also be flexible enough to hold its own? Really looking forward to hearing your ideas folks! :) BCC

So I figured I'd come to you guys for a Chapter-specific painting question. I finally found the motivation to put paint to brush to model, and I started working on my Honor Guard models. No sneak peaks (I want to wait until they're finished to post any), but suffice to say that I'm using the most-techy artifcer armored models I could find, aka the new(ish) Techmarine models, with arm swaps for weapons, obviously. The question is, what color do I paint their helmets? The rest of them are the standard black, highlighted with gray, that I used on this lot: http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h96/DTRI/Iron%20Hands/Leaders/IMAG0242_zps054babd1.jpg Each has a Mechanicus shoulder pad with red, and the Chapter pauldrons are standard metallic-lined with white iconography, but I'm stuck on how to paint the helmets. More red, to show more connection to the Mechanicus? White, as the Codex-approved helm color for veterans? Stick with black?

Sometimes you just get tired of painting Green ... Or so I kept telling myself for the last 2-3 years. It had been ages since I had the urge to paint one of my Salamanders, I had dabbled with the Imperial Guard, done some nice work with Battlefleet Gothic and generally mucked about without actually painting anything even vaguely Space Marine orientated. New toys kept arriving and going into the "Space Marine" box, money spent on a pile of plastic that was getting bigger and bigger. It is disconcerting to be the owner of one of the biggest Space Marine websites in the world and not have the urge to play or paint Space Marines. You feel in some strange way disloyal, a bit of a failure, almost like living a lie. I have always liked Space Marines, loved my Salamander Marines, I created the best space marine painter program on the web ... hell my namesake even got a place in the Salamander books by Black Library. But I could not stir any interest in picking up and painting a Space Marine, "Sometimes you just get tired of painting Green ..." kept going around in my head. Maybe that is the problem, perhaps I am too hooked up "Painting Green", being THE "Salamander" player. So I am going to try and paint some other Space Marines and try not to feel oddly guilty and importantly I am not going to try and make them "works of art". The nearest I ever got to the Demons was making the cut in 2003 at Baltimore, its time to put that dream away and just enjoy painting some stuff to whatever standard takes my fancy. So I started thinking about what I would like to paint that wasn't a "Salamander", I decided I like old Chapters as they have cool looking old armour etc. So a founding chapter perhaps? ... Well to cut a lot of self analysis waffling short, I decided this week to try and paint an Iron Hand Space Marine. Here is the work in progress ... still need to work on the purity seal and I am not happy with the bolter casing either ... but its a start and my first Space Marine in over 2 yrs. I am waiting for Forgeworld to deliver the Decals for the shoulderpads! I used a metal bolter (because of the bionics) and the surface is uneven and the white casing sure as hell shows it! not happy with that ... next one will be a Plastic bolter and should be better. I am using the "chipped" weathering look because normally I paint "pristine" space marines and I wanted a change! (its also VERY quick) Its taken me 2 hrs painting to get this far and that's about the fastest I have ever painted any marine, so I am quite pleased by that :) I need to decide on some kind of basing theme next, I am tempted to go for steel plate with significant rust and oil ... but I will test that later. Overall I am pleased with the result, its fast and a little dirty ... but its a space marine in under 3 hrs and that is unheard of for me. Lets hope FW deliver my stuff quickly while I can maintain interest!

From an Advanced Review here: http://www.thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic...f=35&t=1894 If true then this certainly throws the Iron Hands culture into a new perspective.

Just out of curiosity, is anyone else planning on playing Iron Hands in the Konor campaign? I was going to run my Alpha Legion, but with the codex release imminent and the apparent improvements to Dreadnoughts it entails, I'm now leaning more towards my Hands. Anyone else?

Hi all, I wanted to ask if there is any info how many and what type of Land Raiders do IH poses? The problem is I want to make a list, based on at least one LR, but im not sure that IH has LR Excelsior in their lines, but I want to makt the list kind of fluffy. The list itself: ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [42 PL, 680pts] ++ + HQ + Librarian [6 PL, 105pts]: Boltgun, Force sword + Elites + Sternguard Veteran Squad x6 [14 PL, 108pts] Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 173pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin lascannon Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 173pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin lascannon + Heavy Support + Thunderfire Cannon [6 PL, 121pts] . Techmarine Gunner . . Servo-harness: Flamer, Plasma cutter, 2x Servo-arm ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [71 PL, 1320pts] ++ + HQ + Land Raider Excelsior [24 PL, 478pts]: Combi-plasma, Grav-cannon and grav-amp, Hunter-killer missile, Multi-melta, Storm bolter, 2x Twin lascannon Lieutenants [4 PL, 68pts] . Lieutenant: Master-crafted boltgun, Power axe + Troops + Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak 5x sniper rifles Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak 5x sniper rifles Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak 5x sniper rifles + Fast Attack + Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 180pts]: Assault bolter, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant + Dedicated Transport + Razorback [5 PL, 108pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon Razorback [5 PL, 108pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon Razorback [5 PL, 108pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon ++ Total: [113 PL, 2000pts] ++

Inspired by the entire "everyone runs Feirros+Leviathan" discussions - what might be hidden gems that may not be that famous, but still more than usable with our supplement? With the models around anyway, I intend to try Tarantula sentry guns. They are a staple for my Raptors lists, denying large areas for deep strike while thinning chaff ranks, and a nice speedbump for the more aggressive armies. In our case, they make better use of Feirros' targeting array (at usually BS4+), resulting in that nice rerollable 2+ to hit. Automated Targeting might still make them a bit unwieldy, but it's a cheap way of spamming more heavy weapons. Twin assault cannons, on a unit of 3, racks up 192p for 12W T5 - which might not be the most resilient choice we have, but averages 35 hits S6 AP-2 per round, or 14 hits in overwatch (without CM around), making it near suicidal to charge with the usual 10 GEQ squads or 5 MEQ squads. The cheaper heavy bolter variants combined with a single twin lascannon works too, being considerably cheaper and packing AT as well as anti chaff. Bonus points for their ability to entirely ignore the fact that someone is within 1" of them. Not only can they still fire unimpeded (yes, at the very unit currently hitting them), but also your remaining army can shoot that target too. I've had more than one opponent run their units into CC with a tarantula to save them from getting shot, only to get shot by both the tarantula and everyone around. With their base size, that's also a nice wall to block movement/CC.

Any new thoughts on this guy for Iron Hands? I know most people think it is over-costed and lacking in efficiency. But with the Iron Hands bonus's and the current meta...I kinda think it has a place. At least in an army that focus's on a primaris theme that wants to take on flyers. The point cost is roughly over that of 2 repulsor executioners. The damage output is variable in comparison. But for a tough tank sitting next to a techmarine and getting a 2+ to hit from whatever source you want (Feirros, psyker, chaplain).....this thing can reliably kill a flyer per turn(never suffers negative modifiers to hit on main gun), has its 5++, decent save, and a few extra guns that are nothing to sneeze at. And a good candidate for the ironstone post-faq, and one hell of a distraction carnifex. It flies, moves 12" and can be difficult to tie up, has ok combat potential with the grav. And a 3" negative modifier to charges. However, it does not get it's 5++ in combat, but it does prtoect against mortal wounds, and the void shields will degrade less with the iron hands trait. I dunno, not looking to make this a main go-to, just wanted to re-evaluate it's usefulness and potential. And possibly anything I missed. I'll be looking to playtest it soon.

So the consensus seems to be that Iron Hands are top tier and possibly overpowered(unproven). It is possible that a rules change by GW could result in nerfs. What do you think might be reasonable possible changes they might make? Are changes necessary? If no changes come is that a signal of power creep to come? My personal opinion is that a small change is coming and will pull back on stacking defensive abilities in some way. It should be noted that my ability to predict GW rules changes is poor

Hey everyone! Found this article on Black Library that covers the range of Iron Hands books up until 2018. Pretty good list if you're getting into Iron Hands and want some books to learn the lore and history of the Iron Hands. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/02/the-flesh-is-weak-iron-hands-in-black-librarygw-homepage-post-4/

FW yadda yadda, Leviathan blah blah. Got it. Of the original "Boxnaughts," do you use any? How many? What kind? What role do they fill in your army? Personally, I'm a fan of the Ironclad because it's got that nice T8. I also have a few Venerables with lascannons, because I like how they kill tanks.

Just noticed that the clan that GW picked to represent the Iron Hands, the icon my avatar is currently set to, is nearly the same as the Death Guard icon. I wonder what it all means...

So I played my first game of 8th Edition yesterday using the new 'dex, and here are my first impressions of the table top. Armies were as follows: CT:Iron Hands Battalion + Vanguard Battalion Detachment - Captain with Terminator Armor, thunder hammer, Shield Eternal - Librarian with force sword, Might of Heroes, Null Zone - 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas in a las/plas Razorback - 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas in a las/plas Razorback - 10x Scouts with camo cloaks, sniper rifles, and missile launcher - Thunderfire Cannon - Thunderfire Cannon - Hunter Vanguard Detachment - Techmarine with combi-plas, full servoharness, power axe - Venerable Dreadnought with twin lascannons, fist, heavy flamer - Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon, fist, heavy flamer - Venerable Dreadnought with heavy plasma cannon, fist, heavy flamer - Ironclad Dreadnought with seismic hammer, fist, 2x heavy flamers, and assault launchers Versus (gear approximate): CT: Ultramarines Battalion Detachment - Captain with relic blade & combi-plas - Librarian with force staff, Might of Heroes, and Veil of Time - 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas - 10x Tacticals with melta, combi-melta, and multimelta in a Rhino - 10x Tacticals with flamer, combi-flamer, and heavy bolter in a Rhino - Dreadnought with assault cannon, fist, and stormbolter - 10x Tactical Terminators with cyclone missile launcher, assault cannon, a few chainfists - Land Raider Redeemer (stock) - Tri-las Predator We played Contact Lost with the table quarters deployment. Game ended after just two turns (store was closing) and a draw because I mismeasured a quarter of an inch off an objective. His deployment placed the Predator in the very back of his DZ along the short table edge, with good sight lines down the middle of the table. Dreadnought and LRR (with 5x Tacticals and the two HQs) were deployed in the middle, with the Rhinos near the mid-line of the table for an obvious flank maneuver. My deployment put the captain and all four Dreadnoughts in the middle of the table as far up as I could go for an immediate drive forward. TFCs were deployed in trenches in my backfield, with the Razorbacks and their HQ cargos split, one on each side to watch the flanks or be available to drive on objectives if necessary. The Hunter was on the side of a hill, watching over the middle of the table to contribute to anti-tank fire. The Scouts infiltrated into a bunker complex on a hill to guard the flank that his Rhinos were deployed to strike against; they were basically a speed-bump to block easy access to my Hunter. He had first turn. Dropped the Terminators right along the back edge of my deployment zone where there were coverage gaps. The heavy weapons took a few wounds off a Razorback, while one of my Techmarine gunners tanked the entirely of the stormbolter shots; failed only one armor save, and the FNP put paid to that one wound. The rest of his army pressed forward, with the Rhinos attempting a flank and the Dreadnought and LRR pushing on the center of the table. He divided his fire, scattering wounds on several different Dreadnoughts rather than focusing one down. The Rhinos put some stormbolter rounds into the Scouts and pushed one wound through their 2+ saves. He decided not to attempt a charge with the Terminators. My turn, I pushed the Dreadnought block into the middle of the table and advanced killed seven of the ten Terminators in my backfield with the two Thunderfires, the harness guns on one Techmarine, the plasma-Nought, a Razorback, and a Tactical Squad. Overcharging plasma is a wonderful thing, and the FNP saved both my Sergeant and the plasma gunner from blowing up. The rest of my fire destroyed the lead Rhino, killed all but two of its Tactical occupants, and put several wounds on the Dreadnought. I charged the Terminators with the Tacticals but he rolled well on his saves; the Librarian couldn't make the distance. In the morale phase, the remnant of his Tactical Squad ran off the board but the Terminators stayed put. His turn two, the Terminators backed off and opened fire, wiping out the rest of the Tacticals they were engaged with. He dismounted the models from his LRR and pushed that battlegroup forward to support his Dreadnought, while continuing to attempt a flank maneuver with the last Rhino (though he didn't dismount the squad; he should have to try to uproot the Scouts). He poured all the rest of his fire into my Ironclad, focusing it down. I rolled reasonably well on the FNPs, saving an extra three or four wounds. While that didn't keep it alive through his shooting phase, it did keep it alive longer than he wanted, so he kept having to divert fire from the other Dreadnoughts and the Razorbacks to ensure that the Ironclad indeed died. He attempted a charge with his Dreadnought onto a Razorback but failed. My turn two, I pushed the Dreadnought block and the captain further up the middle, setting up a charge for two of them into the LRR and/or its contents. Focused fire from the Razorbacks and the remaining Tactical Squad wiped out the five enemy Tacticals, and the Venerables put paid to his Dreadnought as well. I was ready to charge and kill his Captain with the Dreadnoughts when we forced to halt and pack up. Given the chance to play through the Assault Phase, I think I would have won. So. BATREP out of the way, here are the lessons I learned from this game: 1. Focus fire is important. Spreading damage around on models without degrading stat lines is a waste of effort. When it comes to heavy targets like vehicles and monster, focus your fire and kill one as quickly as you can. Then, designate another target and rinse & repeat. As has been the case since I first started playing, start with your anti-tank guns to peel open transports so your anti-personnel weapons can murderize the contents. 2. Capitalize on the FNP save's existence. Venerable Dreadnoughts get two FNPs save -- one from their own rules, one from the Chapter Tactics. They can even be given a third such save, a 5+, from one of the stratagems. While the saves themselves use poor values -- 5's and 6's -- the fact that any weapon can hurt any model means that overall, Dreadnoughts will be taking more hits than they used to. More hits means more damage, and more damage means rolling a high number of saves. If your dice are hot, it'll keep key units alive and fighting (like it did for my plasma-carriers on the the overcharge rolls) while in a high volume of fire case, such as my Ironclad, it can keep the unit alive for longer than it ordinarily would. The longer it's alive, the more firepower it's soaking up, which means less hitting the rest of your units. Consider the Ironclad as a Distraction Carnifex, if you will. 3. Dreadnoughts love the Machine Empathy stratagem. Ignore the moving-Heavy-weapon to-hit penalty was huge for both the assault cannon and plasma cannon Venerable Dreadnoughts, allowing me to hit on 2+ while rerolling 1's (thanks, Captain!) while advancing on the enemy. It was especially nice with the plasma cannon, since it kept me from overheating on 2's when murderizing the enemy Terminators in my backfield. 4. Respect the Thunderfire Cannon. S5 AP-1 doesn't sound like an exceeding powerful stat line, but that's when you forget to combine it with 4d3 shots. Three TFC shots across two turns resulted in 7 shots, 8 shots, and 10 shots, and that many dice rolling into any unit, even something as hard as Terminators, will push wounds through their armor saves. Its long range and indirect fire capability also make it easy to hide and still be effective. 5. Respect the plasma. I've always relied heavily on plasma weapons; it was the only way to survive in the Marine-heavy metas I used to play in. Now I know I played against a Marine army so this might be confirmation bias in effect, but my mass of plasma weapons were super effective. Overcharge mode against Terminators is just as silly-effective as it looks on paper, wounding on 2+, reducing them to a 5+ save, and each failed save killing a whole model. They're just as effective as anti-tank guns, since Rhinos and Dreadnoughts are T7, swinging your attacks to 3+ to wound instead of 4+ and again, punching multiple wounds in for every hit. Just beware of the twin plasma gun turret on the Razorback. You can't risk overcharging those because rather than losing a wound, they'll straight up kill the Razorback on an overheat. So that's me after one game. Let's hear about everyone else's early experiences!

So, today I played two games against new and unknown opponents. First game was 1250p and second was 1850. We somewhat agreed beforehand to keep the model count low so time wouldn't be an issue. Now on to the games: Game 1 (1250p) I took a FoM Strike Force: Armored Task Force (2 vindis, 1 auto/hb pred, techmarine and 1 thunderfire cannon) Raptor Wing (stock land speeder, 2 talons with typhoon) Command(tooled up smashfather with cmd squad on bikes) He plays Necrons with a mechrite formation something containg: 2 squads of warriors, one in a nightscythe the other in an ark 1 squad of immortals with a lord and cryptic 1 monolith Mission is maelstrom something (the one where you get tactical objectives by controling objective markers) I's a pretty even game where the decisive factor was his bad teleport with his lord. He was trying to flank my cmd squad to avoid the chapter master tanking but scattered bad and didn't get a clean shot. My CM and his overlord where locked in combat for the entire game, I think we where both down only 1 wound by the end of the game. On turn 4 and 5 I manage to draw good objective cards and I go from 2-3 to 5-3 VP's, winning me the game. Game 2 (1850) I take pretty much the same list as the 1250p game but i remove the thunderfire and add a melta tac squad and ironclad, both in drop pods. I also bring my Knight Crusader He plays AM and the most funny list I've seen He deploys his entire army consisting of 3! units. 2 Chimeiras with a melta and a plasma vet squad. And then the 1500points blob consisting of a Storm Lord containing 10 bullgryns, yarric, 3 lvl2 psykers, 3 priest, an engine seer and something else I don't remember, filling up all 40points of transport capacity. He have nothing to compete with for the objective game, the mission is deadlock, and the desicive point of this game is when his 1000p 'deathstar' disembarks and fail their charge roll, leaving them to eat the combined firepower of my whole army and the charge from my knight. The remains manage to get a few power maul and meltabomb glances on my knight before he stomps them all to death. He concedes after turn 3 with only the Storm Lord left and me up by 3 VP's Conclusion on the FoM rules: I found the benefit of getting PotMS very lacklustre. I was excited about the ATF being a cheap core but it didn't do very much for me. Maybe it was the composition of my forces or how I played them. The +1 fnp was very good even though these list didn't capitalize so much on it. Next time I will definately try one of the demi-co's as my core and add a conclave. Maybe run with a second cmd squad in a pod as well.

I swear I have the worst luck with this army. Four times I have built this force up, only to forcibly have it part ways. I swore the last time that I would never again buy another 40K army. So I haven't. I started 30K. Like most people I purchased the Betrayal boxed set, and promptly drooled over the models contained there-in ...well, maybe not so much for the wonky looking Captain, or the Contemptor with a stick up its rear, but I'm getting off subject. With that, I am using some of those to make my first vow. So with that, I am using: Iron Father (Praetor) 5 Cataphracti Terminators; 3 w Lightning Claws, 1 Heavy Flamer n Chainsift, and a Sergeant with a Combi-Melta, and Grenade Harness 12 Legionaires w Power Fist wielding Sergeant Contemptor (really REALLY modified one) w Kheres Ass. Cannon, and Fist http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u628/cornertablestudios/fbae6dab-fd4f-4f12-95e3-a50a9484c798_zpsgvsosjm0.jpg While its probably not the most optimal options for models load-outs for I still have more to build. As for paint, I will be departing the usual black, in favor of a closer loot to Iron Hand Fanatic's artwork. I will be retaining the Vurgaan Clave, but I like the look of his work. ....And, hopefully, this time I get to keep it

Since the last thread intended to inspire hobbyists/show off your stuff is months old, it seemed best to make a new hobby image section rather than risk getting banned necroing an old work. Full disclosure, most of these models aren't painted by me. Only the Librarian and a scant handful of base-coated models are the original pieces, while the rest were made by another fan.

So Iron Hands remove their left hand upon becoming Space Marines. Did this ritual continue unbroken among their successor chapters? If there is no fluff providing the answer, which successor chapter or chapters do you think would have most likely forgotten or left this ritual behind?