Brother Nihm Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 The following tutorial has been added to the Primer. link Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1420921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I would ask this in PM but I believe everyone should see the answer: Lesser Daemons vs CSM/Raptor, what type of comparison you looking for? Statistics? Speed? Reliability? Uses? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1421189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 I would ask this in PM but I believe everyone should see the answer:Lesser Daemons vs CSM/Raptor, what type of comparison you looking for? Statistics? Speed? Reliability? Uses? Survivability vs MEQ, GEQ (not factoring in special weapons like fists?), as well as kill potential vs the same etc. If you think it's redundant, just disregard this. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1425604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (Edit, doing it now) Attack Generation. A:Hit on 3+ B:Hit on 4+ X:Wound on 3+ Y:Wound on 4+ Z:Wound on 5+ Wounds Per Attack. A+X: 0.44 A+Y: 0.33 A+Z: 0.22 B+X: 0.33 B+Y: 0.22 B+Z: 0.11 Attacks: Attack total * the number, like 10x0.22=2.2 wounds. Saves: 6+: Divide wound total by 6 (1/6th) 5+: Divide wound total by 3 (1/3rd) 4+: Divide wound total by 6, and multiply the result by 3 (its on a 1-6 ratio) 3+: Divide wound total by 3, and double the result (1/3rd times 2=2/3rds) 2+: Divide wound total by 6, and multiple the result by 5 (again, 1-6 ratio) Tactics for Lesser Daemons: Optimum turn of assault for Lesser Daemons is 3, thats 6" move, 6"+2or3" 'deep striking' at the edge of the 6" of the icon, then next turn move 6" for a total of 27-28 inches. Turn two assault can be done from rhinos, done with the chip maneuvre (chip is turn rhino to the side with its flank on deployment line, then pivot it to move, and it will have a 1" 'boost' before it moves, then when deploying/summoning isimmanant, tilt the rhino 45 degreses from the intended target for another 1/2 inch disembark/summon distance from deployment zone). 12"+1&1/2"+6"+1or2"+6" assault=26"to27&1/2". Tubo-boosting bikes, its 33" maximum, thats 24" boost+up to 3" 'circling' the first model deep strike style. A large unit can bring a large charge worth in attacks, and have a larger 'circle' for more inches towards your target. Small units can take up as more scoring units then he can handle, or drive-by tactics just throw a unit down to assault, rapid fire in the shooting phase and then run, letting the daemons finish them off. Tactics for Raptors: Best deployed along behind mechanised units to support from close range assaults and capitilise on obscuring assaults to allow rhino units to get close without worry of rapid fire necrons/meltaguns/plasma guns etc. In a harassment role, larger units are best used as a flank booster. Flank boosting is to threaten a flank to make him re-think his fire and force them to make mistakes, also to prevent large scale flank loss where you can capitalise on their loss. Flanks often have minimal support to counter, offering longevity for such a tactic. Terrain popping, hide behind terrain and come out at oppertune times to counter attack a unit or vehicle. Often to stall an oncoming enemy in defense of a shooty force, having to stall them one movement phase will buy you time, and they should be used in a way that they will lose and fall back by your next shooting phase (during their assault phase). Anti-Tank Role, often meltaguns or plasma guns with a powerfist champion, in a small agile unit hopping terrain and obscured by vehicles until they reach their target, often through flanks, or through terrain (taking tests, suicide marching towards the enemy) extra bodies are just fodder in this style of unit. Tactics for Marines (getting into melee): Rhinos, no other way to say it. Use the Chip Maneuvre(explained above, deploy with the rhinos flank on the line, turn it, and move, when deploying tilt the rhino 45 degrees from the intended target for another 1/2 inch). After the first move, deploy. Then move 6" and assault 6", if the opponant is smart, get back in the rhino on your second turn if he moved away, and move forward, and then use smoke. (hopefully you got possession/armor) then when the vehicle is still alive you can exit the stationary vehicle and assault, remember a stationary vehicle disembarking from a closed top transport you can still assault from. This tactic is designed to assault on turn 2 or 3, and be flexible enough to balance between the two depending on the opponent, also to limit your incoming fire on your transport in case your in trouble. If you do not wish to get back in the rhino on turn 2, you can move forward on turn 3, if your opponent stops moving, only if you know he wont avoid you any further should you do this. (Unless its unwise to use the transport, meltaguns/necrons/destroyed or immobilised). Marines should pack meltaguns and or flamers, and fire only if you know for certain you will have abundant models to get into melee with, otherwise dont fire. You must charge what you shoot so keep that in mind, and pack powerfists because you have the wounds and attacks with normal marines, you need the instant kill and anti-armor in with the unit. The fist is worth its cost. The rhino, if packing a havoc launcher/combi-flamer or melta it is wise to block line of fire extending the combats LoS blockage for any other advancing units, and tank shocking for ordinance isnt a bad idea either. Now, since thats done, for the scale of combat. (Icons would take too much time for now, sorry) Normal 10CSM unit with transport+armor, champ with fist, and 2 meltaguns comes to 260. Normal 10Raptor unit with 2 melta and champ with fist comes to 260. Normal 10LDaemons unit comes to 130. The same number of attacks among the normal marines/raptors to daemons, and so I would safely say that daemons are a support/tie up unit to the core attack. Either that, or a cheap counter-charge unit/slowdown unit for a shooty force. I think for the cost of the daemons being half of the others, its a +50% ratio of attacks in general that would support the marines in close combat, no true comparison can be made with the variables standing squarely on what your opponent does and what his luck is in stopping you from getting close. 20 Daemons to a 30 raptor+30marines in transports army would be a prime example of having +60 attacks on the charge instead of just +30 with that 260 point space. Im sorry but I cannot find a full proof way to compare the units, they are too different. The Inv saves stops what power armor cannot stop, and power armor is superior to basic attacks defense, meanwhile people will usually square their attacks off against the marines instead of the daemons in a multiple combat. Especially when there are cult marines involved. (Cult marines are either more durable, or better in hand to hand then a basic marine/raptor so it is for the better either way) Icons will add more attacks, make you faster, or more durable to str attacks or armor ignoring attacks while the final one is for morale. In any case all icons will improve a basic marine unit's prowess, just use the scale I have above using a calculator for the wounds. If its 30 attacks hit on 4+ and wound on 4+, then its 30x0.22=6.6 wounds, and for the armor saves, say if its 3+, divide by 3 and you have your answer at 2.2 kills. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1425968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The WarpGhost Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Did you get my PM, Nihm? Yes, no, comments? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1427796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Did you get my PM, Nihm? Yes, no, comments?Yep, got it.(A birthday got in the way) I'll reply shortly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1427950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 For your information, I'm currently formatting Muskie's painting tutorial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1428875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 And I'm patiently working on the WB tutorial. :wub: TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1428905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Hooray for Nihm! Did you edit it? I kinda typed it as I painted so it was totally stream of thought... I wanted it off my desk I got much bigger problems, but I didn't want to let the team down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1430273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I have a few additional tactics to toss your way. Defiler Fleeting Wall: Since it is a vehicle, and you may fleet with it, fire off some obliterators and other long range pain, then have the defiler fleet in front of them to block them from harm! Move out of the way next turn, and fleet on back after they've shot. Doing this when its cannon is gone is perhaps best, or if your opponent lacks anti vehicle weaponry. Its like a reverse tau battlesuit jetpack. Spawns with Rhino Wall: Get some spawns, and some rhinos you dont use for transporting. Note that spawns move towards the closest enemy no matter if it sees it or not. Block the enemy fire with the rhinos for as long as possible moving up, and the spawns always count as in difficult terrain so no biggie if the rhinos die. Rhinos cost less, and are perhaps more durable then spawns considering the smoke launchers. If you like spawns, this would be a tactic for you. You can also 'herd' them a bit off curse to assault something else if you plan ahead. Rhino not the Dreadded: If you've got a dreadnought that keeps zerking on you, put it on the edge of the table with a rhino next to it preferably between you and the dread. The dread kills the empty rhino, and it becomes area terrain (still cant see past it) a 35 point sacrifice but allows your anti-tank dread to keep on chomping firing twice at the enemy if it zerks again!~ Blame wall: Use 3 defilers (or other long range mobile platforms), and 3 rhinos preferably. Line the 3 rhinos as a wall on your deployment line hiding the defilers (vehicles are all size 3, and block LoS to eachother) Then in a diagonal line pattern, walk slowly around to fire at the targets in the long corner until they're dead, and repeat. If they want to get close, at their own peril as defilers are good in melee and handle their own. You only waste 105 points to treat the defilers much like the indirect fire defilers they were before (only paying 30 points extra). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1432292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 The rules discussion has been moved -> here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1433833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Good decision, now if you can just finish up my tutorial... <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1434155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 The server move fragged up the links and some of the BB codes, right now the Primer is a mess. I'll spend some of my weekend cleaning up. :no: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1436336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Yah I noticed some other busted links somewhere on B&C after the server move and software update. I definitely could have had it up faster just hand coding HTML and slapping it up somewhere... Oh well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1438152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The WarpGhost Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I have started the Renegade Primer, but I find ive digressed into a discussion of the likely realities of the state of technological enlightenment in the 41st Millenium so i'll need to prescribe myself a rigorous course of brutal editing of my own work as well as writing it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1439307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 GW's guide to building the Brass Scorpion: link has been added to the Primer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1445327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Has this peter'ed out? I know I finished my portion of the project a long time ago... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1469765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 And work has been kicking me since then. As you might have noticed, I've yet to see any feedback from: Terminator Tomatron Midian TheDarkApostle Maximillian Malisteen And as we have but 7 contributors and a load of stuff to be added, well... :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1470680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 And work has been kicking me since then. As you might have noticed, I've yet to see any feedback from: Terminator Tomatron Midian TheDarkApostle Maximillian Malisteen And as we have but 7 contributors and a load of stuff to be added, well... :tu: Some people get their stuff done, when they say they will, to the quality they say they will. Others are all talk... http://www.muschamp.ca/OffSite/hakanorsReaverSmall.jpg I painted this in the first week of November, it's the last model I've painted and the only reason I did it was for this project, I even went and bought a box of the Chaos Space Marines to do it. Oh well one day maybe I'll paint another model, post it in the Call of Chaos thread maybe... Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1471540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 *something stirs in The Warp* "Terra preserve us, Hakanor's Reavers are here!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1480105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 As we're slowly chugging out way towards the third month of the new year, it's time to pick up the pace and work on the Primer once more. Here are some the things that I'd like to see within this unholy tome. (if you have additional ideas for more material, post them!) BACKGROUND INFO: Welcome back to Chaos, here's what has changed Intel File - Thousand Sons Suggestions on fielding renegades, themed army lists Red Corsair Intel File Defeating army X/Y - advice on how to beat e.g. Dark Eldar etc. What works, what doesn't. Suggestions for playing the Legions using the latest Codex Literature list for both Renegades and the Legions WD Chaos index (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=69) Renegade colour scheme checklist: Angels of Ecstasy *Apostles of Minthras Bleak Brotherhood Brotherhood of Darkness *Children of Purgatos Claws of Lorek Company of Misery *Deathmongers Deathshadows Disciples of Destruction *Dragon Warriors *Extinction Angels Hakanor's Reavers Knights of Blood Lords of Decay Night Stalkers Oracles of Change Punishers *Red Corsairs *Skulltakers Skyrar's Dark Wolves *Sons of Malice Sons of Vengeance *Soul Drinkers *Steel Brethren *Swords of Khargoth *The Cleaved The Flawless Host *The Purge *The Pyre The Reborn *The Sanctified Violators *Warriors of Mayhem *= done and added to the Primer. PAINTING: Painting horns Painting BL Painting NL Painting AL (new and old) Painting WB Painting IW Painting the Cleaved Upcoming changes, The following items are being finalized and will be added to the Primer shortly: Interchangeable Icons tutorial. Math-hammer section. Night Lords painting tutorial. If you want to help with any of these areas, have ideas, suggestions, etc. please don't hesitate. Call 888-999-666-777-CHAOS, now! (or just post in this thread) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1492159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 GW's guide to painting Black armour has been added to the Primer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1493862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 I've been snooping around. GW's guide to painting Space Marine eye-lenses, GW's guide to modelling chipped and worn armor, GW's guide to basing Space Marine Bikes, GW's guide to modelling battle-damaged Space Marine armor and Painted examples of Pre-Heresy Space Marines - have all been added to the primer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1494069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 You changed the name from Primer to Handbook... Oh well I just told someone to look for a thread that doesn't exist. I may have found someone to do your Alpha Legion tutorial. He is working on an Alpha Legion or he was, he posted his HQ over in the PCA in the Works in Progress even though it is basically finished. He revealed his recipe for the army, but he seems willing to do a full tutorial. English isn't his first language but I told him not to worry. Hopefully he gets in touch with you or finds this thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1496903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 You changed the name from Primer to Handbook... Oh well I just told someone to look for a thread that doesn't exist. I may have found someone to do your Alpha Legion tutorial. He is working on an Alpha Legion or he was, he posted his HQ over in the PCA in the Works in Progress even though it is basically finished. He revealed his recipe for the army, but he seems willing to do a full tutorial. English isn't his first language but I told him not to worry. Hopefully he gets in touch with you or finds this thread. Thanks Muskie, you can link him this topic or the Handbook if necessary.I changed the name because I've received several complaints that the word 'Primer' was confusing. :rolleyes: Oh and The Night Lords Timeline has been added to the Handbook. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/118611-the-chaos-lords-handbook/page/4/#findComment-1497272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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