How to kill Abaddon ?

[Pariah Mk.231]

Old Zogwort in a large mob of boyz (raising his Ld so he can actually use his powers effectively) can do it, just use Zoggy's curse (if you can make it work) and watch Abaddon turn into an angry squig with a topknot. :nuke:

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I did him in in an Apocapypse game. Thanks to one of the assets, we got to send his deep strike off awry. Landed him on a Hammerhead after scatter. :D

[Levett]

Want to kill Abaddon? 1 word... Mephiston.

 

 

Oh yeah.

[Big King Bob]

Imperial guard could do it...

 

260 points gets u a 5man Junior Officer squad and then 2 lascannon armed anti tank squads, or if points are no option then it just becomes academic, there's no way even abaddon will survive that many shots...

[minigun762]

Want to kill Abaddon? 1 word... Mephiston.

 

 

Oh yeah.

 

 

Hows he going to do it? With no Inv save, No FNP save and Abaddon immune to Force Weapons (come 5th Edition) I don't see it going well. Even now when you can force weapon him, can you do it fast enough before he crushes your face?

[Battle Captin Torodin]

force weapon, simple as

[Cale]

Alright, so what are Mephiston's relavent stats?

 

Strength, Toughness, Initiative, total number of attacks (we'll presume he's charging).

 

Does he have Furious Assault?

 

Let me know and I'll work up the numbers real quick. Unless he somehow gets to Initiative six, he's basically doomed.

 

 

Also, yeah. In fifth edition, Force Weapons will cause real, actual Instant Death (with capital letters and everything) and Abbadon, along with Nids and Daemonprinces and Phoenix Lords, will be immune to them.

[The Rubberduck]

My bet is on GK terminators, S6 and ignoring all his saves.

[Cale]

Uh, what? GK terminators don't ignore invulnerable saves. Not sure what you're smoking, there.

 

You get, say, seven GK terminators for 287 points. They get the charge. Abbadon kills...about three. The remaining four take twelve swings and deal...about two wounds.

 

Next round, Abbadon kills about three more, and the remaining guy might take one wound.

 

Abbadon wins.

 

If you go for the Force Weapon (while it still works) and you play with the RAW retinue rules for the Grand Master, you get GM and three GKT.

 

Abbadon still kills three. If he's lucky, he'll kill the Master, too, before the Master swings (slightly less than a 50/50 chance, on the whole).

 

Meanwhile, the Master has a slightly better than 50/50 chance of gibbing Abbadon with five swings.

 

So, it's not impossible for the Master, but he's gotta win two coin flips in a row, basically. If he loses either one, he dies and Abbadon just laughs.

 

More accurately, the Grand Master has a 61.62% chance to survive Abbadon's initial swings (which is saying that Abbadon has a 38.38% chance to kill the Grand Master and his whole Retinue) and a 56.35% chance to gib Abbadon with his Force Weapon.

 

So, he has a 34.72% chance of beating Abbadon in the first round. If he fails to beat Abbadon in the first round, Abbadon has almost certainly won.

 

If he fails to do either of these things, Abbadon basically wins.

[minigun762]

Alright, so what are Mephiston's relavent stats?

 

Its in the online BA codex, but I'm at work so I can't view it right now.

From what I remember though he's got S5, T5(real T5), I6 I believe and FNP but no Inv save.

He's also got the Might of Heroe's Psychic Power for +D3 swings and some others, but I don't remember them being relevant. I want to say attacks were 4 based +1 CCW +Psychic Powers

 

If I remember right, he'll do on average about 1 wound on average to Abaddon. Then lets just assume he gets that Force Weapon off and you have a dead Abaddon.

Of course at the same time Abaddon will hit and do about 4 wounds on average with no saves, so he'll be taking him down with him. Since they're both 200+ models, I'd say its a fairly Pyyrcic (spelling??) victory.

[Renik]

abaddon versus mephsiton has been done before by bobmakenzie thread here basically if abbadon doesnt outright kill him mephiston would take him down with force weapon

 

of course when 5th editon comes with its rumored changes then hes screwed

[Corrupted]

The Deceiver will statistically bend Abaddon over the gaming table, S9 T8 5 wounds 4+ inv and he ignores all saves.

[minigun762]

The Deceiver will statistically bend Abaddon over the gaming table, S9 T8 5 wounds 4+ inv and he ignores all saves.

 

Whats his I though?

Gotta remember that those are basically Abaddon's rules as well, just 1 less wound but a higher WS I believe and more attacks.

Though it would be a good matchup, the Nightbringer would probably be harder I'd guess.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I saw a Fortune-d Avatar of Khaine kill Abbaddon-- seemed like great odds

 

Avatar + Farseer w/Fortune and Runes of Witness= 250pts

 

If you want to get fancy, you can Doom too

 

Avatar + Farseer w/Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, and Runes= 295pts

 

 

What say we?

[I AM THE AWESOME]

I do believe it is not in the Malleus we should look to, but the Hereticus.

 

Cannoness with Master-Crafted Eviscerator, Jump Pack, Inferno Pistol, Cloak of St. Aspira, Litanies of Faith, Mantle of Ophelia.

 

Comes out to 180 pts.

 

Cannoness gets charge with the pack. 'K, she uses Litanies to get off Spirit this turn. She uses the pistol, there is a little less than a 50% chance she'll wound him. Let's say she does. Abbadon has say 8 attacks with about six hits. I'll be darned if any of them fail to wound. One gets by Spirit (2+ inv) which is negated by the Mantle.

 

Now the Cannoness swings *rubs hands gleefully together*

 

About three hits should be scored, inflicting two wounds. One is to be saved.

 

Wounds so far: Cannoness 2 Abbadon 2

 

Well since we gave Abbadon 4 extra attacks last turn let's give him three this one. Seven attacks, around five hits and wounds. Mrs. Sister has a fair chance at living. So the master-crafting should make her score about three hits again, and another wound.

 

Wounds so far: Cannoness 2 Abbadon 1

 

Now in this phase using our previous math from assault phase 1 the cannoness gets pwned. However, I really don't think taking him out with her is all that hard.

[Levett]

Mephiston is: WS6 BS5, S5, T5, W4, I6, LD10.

 

He gets 6 attacks on the charge, plus might of heroes which is +D3, and can force weapon you in the same turn. Not to mention he can also use Transfixing Glare which if you fail your leadership test, you get 0 attacks, and are automatically hit.

[Corrupted]

Both C'tan are fairly equal against Abaddon, the difference in stats don't really effect this specific fight. When you run the numbers on average Abaddon deals two unsaved wounds to the C'tan and the C'tan does the same to Abaddon, the thing is a C'tan has five wounds and Abaddon has four.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Wounds so far: Cannoness 2 Abbadon 2

 

Well since we gave Abbadon 4 extra attacks last turn let's give him three this one. Seven attacks, around five hits and wounds. Mrs. Sister has a fair chance at living. So the master-crafting should make her score about three hits again, and another wound.

 

 

Unfortunately, the Canoness will only get one turn of CC maybe, b/c the Mantle only protects against Instant Death once and against a single wound that would cause it. So when she takes a second wound (even in the same round), she's insta-gibbed...

 

I like where you were going with the 2+ invuln save though, that could split the difference there

[Pariah Mk.231]

I reckon an Dark Eldar Wych Archite, with combat drugs (selecting +1A and re-roll all misses), wych weapons, splinter pistol, agoniser, shadow field has a decent chance.

And he'll only set you back 141 points. Not bad considering he's going to be taking a shot at one of the games biggest bad-arses.

 

It's most likely he'll charge, with 6 attacks, hitting on 3+ (due to the wych weapons halfing Abaddon's WS) re-rolling misses, wounding on 4+ and forcing the big guy to use his invulnerable save ... meaning he should get a wound or 2 everyturn. So long as his shadowfield holds up he can keep doing this.

However, Abaddon only needs the Archite to fail a single 2+ invulnerable save and he's toast. The Archite will have an easier time than most in return because Abaddon now needs 4+ to hit him rather than 3+, so only half his attacks should hit, but only needing a 2+ to wound with re-rolls means all those are gonna hurt the little guy.

Again it comes down to how lucky the Archite gets with his shadowfield save.

[Cale]

Mephiston has a 59.54% chance of killing Abbadon with his Force Weapon's ability, counting the chance that Transfixing Gaze (I don't know what that is, exactly. I presume it goes off automatically and that Abbadon takes the ld. test at ld. 10) allows him to hit Abbadon automatically. This also presumes that Mephiston gets the charge (and thus gets six attacks).

 

59.54% isn't half bad.

 

Abbadon, on the other hand, has a 64.94% chance to kill Mephiston. This includes the Daemonweapon (even the chance to roll a 1 and take no swings) as well as the chance to fail his leadership test and be transfixed.

 

So, yeah. Mephiston is a monster. Abbadon, though, is favoured, if only slightly, to win the fight, though. Mephiston charging Abbadon, killing Abbadon, and surviving would be...unlikely. About a 20.88% chance, in fact.

 

So, if you're willing to settle for the Pyrrhic victory and sacrifice Mephiston to kill Abbadon, then yeah--it's worth a shot. If you're looking to pound Abbadon into the ground and spit on his corpse...Mephiston is betting on pretty long odds.

 

Also, for the record, Abbadon has a 40.64% chance of killing the described Archon with Shadow Field and Witch blade in one round of swings.

 

The Archon, on the other hand has only a 4.2% chance of killing Abbadon in a single round of combat (counting the chance for Abbadon to roll a one and wound himself) and a 29.56% chance of having killed Abbadon by turn two (once again, counting both chances for Abbadon to roll a one and wound himself).

 

So, in two rounds of combat, the Archon has a less than 1/3 chance to kill Abbadon while Abbadon has a 64.76% chance of killing the Archon.

 

The Archon is definitely outclassed. He might get lucky and win, but odds are on Abbadon. 'course, Abbadon's almost twice as expensive, and two[/ii] Archons probably beat him.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Crunched some #'s--

 

An Avatar deals 1.4 wounds per round to a Doomed Abbadon

Rounds to 1

Abaddon deals 0.78125 wounds per round to a Fortuned Avatar

Rounds to 1

 

 

A Charging Avatar deals 1.7578125 wounds to a Doomed Abaddon

Rounds to 2

A Charging Abaddon deals 1.0625 wounds to a Fortuned Avatar

Rounds to 1

 

 

So even when Abaddon charges, the Avatar has a per-round advantage-- of course this matchup is rather close and luck of the instance could give it away to either side. These numbers assume the Farseer passes all psychic tests (having Runes of Witness) and that Abaddon gets 3.5 attacks from the Daemon weapon and never rolls 1.

[Levett]

Mephiston has a 59.54% chance of killing Abbadon with his Force Weapon's ability, counting the chance that Transfixing Gaze (I don't know what that is, exactly. I presume it goes off automatically and that Abbadon takes the ld. test at ld. 10) allows him to hit Abbadon automatically. This also presumes that Mephiston gets the charge (and thus gets six attacks).

 

59.54% isn't half bad.

 

Abbadon, on the other hand, has a 64.94% chance to kill Mephiston. This includes the Daemonweapon (even the chance to roll a 1 and take no swings) as well as the chance to fail his leadership test and be transfixed.

 

So, yeah. Mephiston is a monster. Abbadon, though, is favoured, if only slightly, to win the fight, though. Mephiston charging Abbadon, killing Abbadon, and surviving would be...unlikely. About a 20.88% chance, in fact.

 

So, if you're willing to settle for the Pyrrhic victory and sacrifice Mephiston to kill Abbadon, then yeah--it's worth a shot. If you're looking to pound Abbadon into the ground and spit on his corpse...Mephiston is betting on pretty long odds.

 

Also, for the record, Abbadon has a 40.64% chance of killing the described Archon with Shadow Field and Witch blade in one round of swings.

 

The Archon, on the other hand has only a 4.2% chance of killing Abbadon in a single round of combat (counting the chance for Abbadon to roll a one and wound himself) and a 29.56% chance of having killed Abbadon by turn two (once again, counting both chances for Abbadon to roll a one and wound himself).

 

So, in two rounds of combat, the Archon has a less than 1/3 chance to kill Abbadon while Abbadon has a 64.76% chance of killing the Archon.

 

The Archon is definitely outclassed. He might get lucky and win, but odds are on Abbadon. 'course, Abbadon's almost twice as expensive, and two[/ii] Archons probably beat him.

 

Who ever thought fluff would translate into game stats? I really like these odds. Abaddon should have a bit of an advantage over Mephiston, as he's simply more experienced, and blessed by Chaos. However Mephiston should have more than a fair chance of killing him, due to the fact he is the Imperiums strongest Librarian, and experienced for a loyalist (he's close to 800 yrs old). Whether or not the above 2 characters were designed with the history / fluff in mind or not it does look like they are matched rather well.

 

Ta for crunching that Cale! :lol:

[Cale]

For another quick bout, Abbadon vs. the Avatar.

 

Now, my memory is a little sketchy, so someone correct me if these are wrong.

 

Avatar is Strength 6, Toughness 6, WS:10, 4 wounds, 4+ invulnerable, 4 base attacks

 

Fortune allows him to re-roll his invulnerable save

 

Doom allows him to re-roll rolls to hit against Abbadon. (I can't remember if it's rolls to hit or rolls to wound, but it doesn't matter in this case--either produces the same results)

 

 

So, on average, Abbadon deals 0.810 wounds to the Avatar, and 0.912 wounds when charging.

 

(This are the actual averages, including the chance to fail his Daemon Weapon roll)

 

The Avatar, on the other hand, deals 1.185 wounds to Abbadon, and 1.48 wounds when charging.

 

Of course, without Fortune and Doom, the Avatar takes 1.620 wounds from Abbadon (1.823 when getting charged) and only deals 0.889 wounds to Abbadon (or 1.111 if charging).

 

 

Also note that if Abbadon has access to two psyckers (or one psycker who can toss out two powers), there's a 28.22% chance that the Avatar turns into a Spawn before the fight even begins. :tu:

 

Also, note that after four rounds of combat (presuming the Avatar charged) the probability that the Avatar has killed Abbadon is 78.88% (counting Doom and Fortune). The chance that the Avatar has been spawned by that point is 48.49%. I'm not going to figure out how likely it is that Abbadon has finished the Avatar on his own by then. It's way too much work.

[Headhunter]

MAN I cant wait to put my Abbadon on the table for the first time

[Maladon]

How to kill Abaddon, well outside of maybe a full squad of Harliequins and some good dice rolls, maybe another Abaddon! Even with the rumour reworking of rending, which I don't see as a nerf job.

 

I don't know too much about the C'Tan to form a guess.

 

Now on to the Sarcasm

 

[Does he have Furious Assault?

 

What the hell is Furious Assault? I looked in the rulebook and there is nothing about it anywhere there, outside of the FAQ for the Marine codex... plz explain! :tu: :P :P