How to kill Abaddon ?

[Maladon]

Well, I was informed by Pariah that the Archite had some device (wych weapons?) which halved Abbadon's weapon skill, making it three or four or whatever instead of seven. I presume the Archite is five or six.

 

Like I said, I have no idea, really, what that Dark Eldar character is like. Pariah posted all the relavent information, though, in his first post. I used what he posted to the letter (though I guess I got some of the names wrong or something) and those are the numbers that came out. I presume that he is right. If he isn't, take it up with him.

 

No worries, I was curious, nothing more. ;)

[Seahawk]

Or, you could also swamp him with 30 orks + fist + Warboss, not to mention getting shot by Tau and failing one or two of those armor saves. But that would be apocalypse...which I played yesterday. At least he took out 14 of them in two rounds of combat before he fell.

[Smurfalypse]

Abbadon is 275 points.

 

Brother Captain Stern is an enormous waste of points.

 

If you really want to kill Abbadon with Grey Knights, take a Grand Master (145) and a three-man Terminator retinue (126 points). Since Grey Knight Grand Masters are not Independant Characters while with their retinues, Abbadon can't pick out the Grand Master. He has to swing at the unit, and, as I pointed out, he only gets about three kills on average. This leaves the Grand Master with his shot at Force-Weaponing Abbadon. If he has Sacred Incense (making him and his squad more expensive than Abbadon, but only by a little) he'll likely have two chances to instagib Abbadon before he dies. It significantly increases not only his chance of killing Abbadon, but his chances of coming out alive (though his retinue is basically doomed).

 

As for the Librarian:

 

He has a 32.79% chance of killing Abbadon with his Force Weapon.

 

He has a 0.785% chance of killing Abbadon using Veil of Time.

 

Abbadon has a 41.63% chance of killing the Librarian.

 

So, while the Librarian isn't likely to get Abbadon in the first round, there's a reasonable chance he will live through to the second round, and given two rounds he's got a 51.09% chance of gibbing Abbadon.

 

Of course, he has almost no chance of living through to the third round, so it's still only a little better than a coin flip.

 

He is a lot cheaper, though. I'm surprised at how much the Storm Shield helps him out. (Though the Adamantium Mantle is really a no-brainer).

 

It's also worth noting that, basically, Veil of Time is a bad pick. You can't use both the Force Weapon and Veil of Time in the same turn. A Librarian using Veil of Time is far, far less likely to kill Abbadon than one using the Force Weapon ability.

 

 

I may be wrong but dont ICs even within retinues become ICs when in close combat? Also if they dont, than wounds could carry over to him so either way hes probably going to recieve a beating from Abby and could possibly with good rolling kill the entire unit.

 

The best pure way to handle abby, is to literally annihilate the unit he is with by shooting it down to nothing. Him solo in CC isnt a huge deal, its when hes with 10 termies or even 4 termies in a land raider that he truly is an issue. Ive fought him before and had a unit of 3 oblits end him via shooting. Granted my opponent was very unlucky with the 4+ invuln, but he died to 6 twinlinked plasma gun shots. I managed to hit with everything and wound with 5, he then failed 4 saves and crumpled. Now the odds werent with me, but the best way is still to elimate the unit he is rolling with and handleing him solo.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Well, I was informed by Pariah that the Archite had some device (wych weapons?) which halved Abbadon's weapon skill, making it three or four or whatever instead of seven. I presume the Archite is five or six.

 

Like I said, I have no idea, really, what that Dark Eldar character is like. Pariah posted all the relavent information, though, in his first post. I used what he posted to the letter (though I guess I got some of the names wrong or something) and those are the numbers that came out. I presume that he is right. If he isn't, take it up with him.

 

No worries, I was curious, nothing more. :)

 

 

Yeah, Wych Weapons are a free item that Achites (Wych Lords) get standard, they halve the WS of any model in contact with the model that has an UN-MODIFIED strength of less then 6 ... they also negate the extra attack from 2 weapons, but that doesn't apply in this scenario.

The Archite has a WS of 6, but the rest of his stats except his initiative of 8 are very "meh". However, he does always have a 4+ invulnerable in combat, which is nifty.

Give him a shadowfield and he gets a 2+ invulnerable until he fails one, then he loses it but still has the 4+ to fall back on ... against Abby however, he's toast as soon as he fails the 2+.

 

The reason I thought Cale was wrong was because I missed that he stated the Archites chances of killing Abaddon in ONE round. Sorry about that Cale, my bad.

[Cale]

I may be wrong but dont ICs even within retinues become ICs when in close combat? Also if they dont, than wounds could carry over to him so either way hes probably going to recieve a beating from Abby and could possibly with good rolling kill the entire unit.

 

This is correct. In the case of the Grand Master, though, he isn't an Independant Character at all while with a Retinue. If he brings a retinue, for the time period while they are still alive, he does not follow any of the Independant Character rules--including acting as his own unit in combat.

 

Also, for the record, I did run the numbers on Abbadon killing the Grand Master and his whole retinue in one go. I'm not sure where they ended up, or if I even posted them.

 

Just so you know, the probability that Abbadon kills three Grey Knight Terminators and the Grand Master in one go is 39.22%.

 

The probability that the Grand Master kills Abbadon (while charging, no wargear, using the Force Weapon ability, and discounting the 0.334% chance he has of dealing four or more wounds without using the Force Weapon ability) is 56.35%.

 

So, the actual probability of the Grand Master and his three-man retinue charging and killing Abbadon with the GM's force weapon ability is 34.25%. This accounts for the possibility that Abbadon blows his DW roll and takes no swings, but it doesn't account for the possibility that the GK actually deal four wounds to Abbadon and don't have to use the Force Weapon--so the actual probability of the Grey Knights finishing Abbadon on the first round is actually a little higher than that.

 

I'd be willing to bet that it's pretty close to the 39.22% chance that Abbadon has to kill all of the GK before they swing. An Adamantium Mantle, though, on the Grand Master (even at the cost of a whole Terminator) would increase the Grey Knights' chances of success considerably.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

But if the Grand Master brings Sacred Incense, Abaddon is going to be -1 to IN so they would hit at the same time with the normal termies hitting later. With an Icon of the Just the GM gets a 4+ invuln, but GK cannot buy Adamantine Mantles as they are not listed in their armory.

[Cale]

The Incense and Relic would certainly help, yes. Also, I didn't know they couldn't get Mantles. That's a shame.

 

With Incense and a 4+ invulnerable, the GM does pretty well. Abbadon's still got a fair shot at winning, though.

[Smurfalypse]

Yeah, hes a monster for sure. In 5th force weapons are going to inflict insta death too, so abby will become even more of a beast. Top priority to handle him is still clear out whatever unit hes decided to join, then handle him solo. Put him in a unit of terms and hes just retardedly hard to handle. Guess the eldar wraithcannon crap can outright gank him i suppose, not sure of those exact rules though.

[Jiri the Corrupted]

I've got an Apocalypse-only idea! Take a Titan with a Plasma Blastgun and a Vulcan Mega Bolter and blast his retinue to bits with the plasma weapon. That'll take out most of them and then use the 15 (!) shot mega bolter. That's sure to hurt 'm badly. Repeat until he dies. Not that I would ever do such a thing, he is my Warmaster and I am (or should be at least) an eternally loyal Black Legion Battle Brother.

[Gorb]

And the Titan is around 750 points, while Abbadon is 275. That's a forgone conclusion there.

 

@ Gorb: First of all, Vindicares don't need to have him in the open, they can snipe him in a squad anywhere, anytime. Unless you're referring to terrain.

I mention this line TWICE in my post:

 

If you add in ranged methods of killing Abbadon, I say we add in terrain.

Second of all, Vindicators do not have a minimum range on their guns. I don't know what you're thinking.

My mistake. Still, you DS Abbadon near enough to the Vindis, and they'll have a good chance of hitting themselves.

[minigun762]

I've got an Apocalypse-only idea! Take a Titan with a Plasma Blastgun and a Vulcan Mega Bolter and blast his retinue to bits with the plasma weapon. That'll take out most of them and then use the 15 (!) shot mega bolter. That's sure to hurt 'm badly. Repeat until he dies. Not that I would ever do such a thing, he is my Warmaster and I am (or should be at least) an eternally loyal Black Legion Battle Brother.

 

Not a horrible idea but not quite as good as it sounds.

If I remember right, the Vulcan Mega Bolter is the same as a Heavy Bolter but +1S and -1AP. 15 shots will be 10 hits, so 6.67 wounds so 1.1 wounds on average, not really worth it in my opinion.

[Primarch Naogedd]

I did some crunching (not quite as much as you do, faithful Cale) and I figured that assuming Typhus gets the charge (in the interests of fairness, being 50 points beneath Abby) they have about an equal chance of insta-gibbing each other. He gets 6.666 attacks on the charge, 4+ to hit so 3.33 hits, 4+ to wound because Daemon Weapon of Nurgle so 1.6666 wounds, 1/2 get saved by Abby's invulnerable, 0.8333333 wounds. Abby gets 6.666 attacks, hits on 3+ so 4.4444 hits, 3.70370 wounds, halved by FNP, 1.85185 wounds, 1.2345678 wounds. Both wounds by Typhus and by Abby insta-gib, so it's on Abby's side, but the tipping point is I. Abby has 6, Typhus has 5, Abby strikes first. That will insta-gib Typhus unfortunately. If Cale or someone would crunch the numbers better that'd be great 'cause I probably made several mistakes. Typhus' stats are WS 5, S 4, T 4(5), W 4, A 3, wears Termie armour, has Daemon Weapon that is also Force Weapon.

 

Damn. I must be so damn lucky with Typhus. I killed the Nightbringer single-handedly.....

 

Naogedd out.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

There are a few errors there mate--

 

Typhus is carrying The Manreaper which is defined as both a normal Daemon Weapon and a Force Weapon. It does not say it counts as a Plaguebringer and a Force Weapon, so that means you do not receive the 'never worse than 4+ to wound' rule.

 

Also, Feel No Pain has no effect on weapons that cause Instant Death OR close combat attacks which ignore armor saves (in which case Abaddon applies to both situations)

 

Re-crunch those numbers and you'll see there's not really any chance for Typhus to take out Abaddon unless you got real lucky.

[Lord Humongous]

A "normal deamon weapon" is a plaugebringer, if the model holding it has Mark of Nurgle.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Lord Humongous Posted Today, 03:09 AM

A "normal deamon weapon" is a plaugebringer, if the model holding it has Mark of Nurgle.

 

Ah, I looked again and I can see the flow-chart method that makes it happen; its just funny that he is the only named chaos character that has to do that

[Rob the lurker]

You wouldnt believe how many people have arguments over whether Typhus has a Plaguereaper as well - strictly speaking he isnt a Lord (with a Mark of Nurgle), so he wouldnt get any additiona benefit except +D6 attacks. Personally I think that's stupid as he is the Destroyer Hive, but RAW is RAW....(just read Typhus entry, he's not defined as a Lord anywhere, not even fluff...()

 

AB40K have decided he gets a normal daemon weapon, so he is S5 according to them.....

[chaos strong]

i have beat him bad with Orks, a unit of boyz does the trick nicely, EXPECIALLY shoota boyz, as you shoot him like 45-60 times first, and then charge him, OR even if you get charged ure good.

 

and although I love my aby, the real END ALL BE ALL for combat....Khârn...burn baby burn, disco inferno

[Primarch Naogedd]

Thx. I knew I made mistakes somewhere, didnt make sense for ol Abby to be taken down by someone so trivial as Typhus. I forgot that FNP is ignored by anything that ignores WBB, theyre basicall the same thing but WBB is on next turn instead of right away. It seems a lot of people forget that FNP is ignored, they just treat it as an extra 4+ invulnerable.

 

I just thought he might have a shot at gibbing Abbadon because I have just had the luck with him.... Killed the Nightbringer without a scratch etc.

[Contaminus]

I don't know about the new codex but I remember playing a Black Legion force with my Death Guard a few years ago. My Chaos Lord with terminator armour and plague sword took the Despoiler out pretty quickly (I got very lucky with the dice) since his sword was basically a nerfed Drach'nyen :ph34r:

[kharn_the_betrayer]

Has anyone tried Logan Grimnar (sp)? He costs almost as much and his special axe can be split between frost blade and pf. That might help.

 

 

Also if we are going with non-pa, sick a talos on him. Or two. You always need 2 talos anyway and if you portal them, mmmm dead despoiler.

[the jeske]

lower I and can be instant death he dies.

 

Anything other than a large unit of rending models or hth tyrnant has few , if any chance to score a kill against him.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

I tried him once under the old rules and he didn't manage to hit once with Drachn'yen and after three rounds of combat a carnifex killed him.

 

I tried new rules Abaddon on Saturday. Mind War killed him before he had chance to make a single attack!

 

In my experience he sucks. :P

[Commander Skaav]

I have Abaddon, but in all honesty, I don't tend to use him, in my opinion he is one of the most expensive models in the game, and I feel he makes the game too one sided due to his stats (though in counter to this I do use Typhus of Nurgle from time to time, who I guess could be described as on par with Abaddon, though not very. Does that even make sense? Don't know for certain. B))

[Ian Hockert]

How about 7 to 8 Deepstriking chaos terminators rapid-firing combi-plasmas. 8 is only 5 points more than Abaddon and have pretty good chance of killing him in a single volley. Heck, seven are cheaper and are still reasonably likely to succeed at killing him. Overall, I say shoot the bastard with lots of massed firepower. Statistically two rounds of fire from a guided War Walker Squadron with six scatter lasers would have a decent chance of killing him. Abaddon is slow and only effective in CC so massed firepower is definitely the way to go.

[Parias]

Necron Lord: Destroyer Body, Warscythe, Gaze of Flame, Lightning Field, Phylactery, or ditch the Body for Phase Shifter.