Taking down Abaddon:

[Skytear]

Greetings everyone,

 

I bring to you a question I've been pondering about.

 

How to effectively dispose of the near 300 point Super-Mutant Chaos Abaddon the Despoiler.

I've faced him a couple of times, and everytime I tried to focus on other, softer targets then him, trying to

'flow around him'.

 

But I still think about a way to effectivel tackle him down using the DH List.

And as I know this board here has some good and able people, I'm putting this up.

I've discussed this over skype with buddies of me yesterday, one playing Tyranids, the other Black Templars. They're interested in solutions as well, from the hive, slimy alien and fanatical fencer marine point-of-view,

 

:D So, I've been thinking about something that can take him down that can be put into an all-comers list.

 

1. Pure Grey Knights

1.1 BroCap Stern teams up with a Grandmaster with sacred incense, but that would be worth more than Abaddon pointswise, so I assume he's with some Berzerkers or Terminators.

They'd bash each other and my hope is that either Stern or the GM hits and wounds with his Psi-Weapon, using our unique (yes, thank you Codex) 'Psi-Ownage'.

1.2 Grandmaster joins a a standard GK-Unit and charges.

1.3 Shoot shoot shoot then charge

1.4 Just water around him, dodging him, firing if you can, eventually take him down and focus on the mission first. (This is what I'm doing, but it doesn't hurt to think about alternatives)

 

2. Daemonhunters and Racidals:

 

2.1 Buy cheap retinues as ablative wounds and then hope to hit him with your Inquisitor and warriors and maybe acolytes.

2.2 Plasma him into fallouty-green ash with focused firing stormtroopers and Inquisitorial plasma-retinues.

 

Those are the results of our brain-storming

If you wanna have a go, please feel invited - I'm really looking forward to all thoughts.

 

Peace out!

[Melissia]

Well, one option is that you could ally in a jump pack canoness and a few small battle sister squads, and you should be able to use the canoness with spirit of the martyr to tie him up for a few assaults (she will get a 2+ invulnerable save) while you get your units in position to focusfire on him. If she dies, then everyone turns and pours all the fire on him they can muster. If she doesn't die? Well, then all is well huh?

 

Give the Canoness a book, blessed weapon, cloak of st. aspira, and mantle of ophelia. Possibly the Litanies of Faith as well. The squads are tehre to provide additional faith points, but they can also be used as cheap objectives holders as well, at least when compared to Grey Knights.

 

Of course, something can be said for using a base Witch Hunter army and just focusing a bunch of exorcist shots on him too. I mean, if you're just trying ot kill him, not tie him up.

[benmothershaw]

GrandMaster, Sacred Incense, Holy Relic

Retinue of - GKT terminators

 

Holy Relic should be better because it is similar to MC and gives your unit +1 attack for 15pts.

 

Imo don't expect to come out with GKT in polished armour!

[number6]

Though I've personally faced Abaddon only twice, I've seen him in several other games. From what I've seen there's nothing any model in the game can do to kill him ... unless you're talking about Abaddon himself. If you're fortunate enough to see your opponent rolll a "1" when checking his daemon weapon, it's possible for Abaddon to injure himself badly enough that he can be killed. Outside of that, I have not seen anything, anything at all, actually kill him. Not at range, and definitely not in close combat, either. He shrugs off lascannons and railguns alike, and the only effective defense I've seen is to throw a massive unit of Kroot and Hounds at him! That legitimately held him up for three combat phases before finally being wiped out.

 

With my GKs, I just try to avoid him. If I know I'm facing Abaddon, I definitely take my mechanized -- 2-3 land raider -- list, as that's the only way to stay away from him. In an Apocalypse game several months ago -- the first time I ever saw that model in play -- I made the mistake of charging him with a full unit of 10 PAGKs, only to watch Abaddon kill them to the last man in a single round of combat. Having to make armour saves after losing combat because you're Fearless is a massive detriment when facing Abaddon! He can't sweeping advance; it's much better to be able to fall back. GKs. sadly, don't have that option, so they just die. I am skeptical that even a big unit of GKTs would perform much better. Even assuming they would, you're talking about spending double or even triple the amount of points of Abaddon himself just to get -- perhaps -- as good as a 50/50 chance of taking him out.

 

Taking on Abaddon head-to-head is a losing proposition no matter how you slice it. If you can avoid doing it, you should. As one of my Chaos-playing friends put it, "Sure Abaddon costs a lot. But he's worth it! He's the most points-efficient assault model in all of 40K."

[honersstodnt]

abaddon is broken :D

 

grey knights need a grandmaster special character who is just as good ><

[Captain Malachi]

600 imperial guardsmen rapid-firing the lasguns into him? Even he's going to fail enough saves with that kind of firepower......actually, he probably won't.

[honersstodnt]

144 guardsmen rapid firing into abaddon with lasguns SHOULD kill him... so 3 full platoons would bring him down in 1 turn.

[Captain Malachi]

Out of interest, roughly how many points is that many guardsmen?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I've had the misfortune of having to face Abaddon in a couple Apocalypse games. The best luck I've had was a squad of Retributors w/ 4 heavy bolters using Divine Guidance against him from rapid fire range while he was pursuing other targets. They didn't kill him but taking 2 or 3 wounds off Abaddon is still a feat.

 

With pure DH though..um.. no idea? :tu:

 

EDIT: 3 platoons of guardsmen is roughly 1020 points, assuming nothing but lasguns :) That'd be 165 models.

[Captain Malachi]

Oh, pure DH? I missed that part, ok, orbital strike?

[Skytear]

600 imperial guardsmen rapid-firing the lasguns into him? Even he's going to fail enough saves with that kind of firepower......actually, he probably won't.

Yes and that would be 3600 Points. You can also field an Emperor Titan against him if you want.

Or Milli Vanilli could team up with Vanilla Ice, infiltrate and super-doom-siren his sorry ass. Or William Wallace lightnings him out of his scottish...

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of ways Abaddon can die. :tu:

I was thinking of something more professional in a fair and normal matchup.

 

And...a normal guardsman is 6 points I think.

You will get around 45 Guardsmen or so for the price of Abaddon.

I'm sure if they form a circle around him, they can all fire. The fun is over once he gets into close combat however.

 

Orbital Strikes: Erm, they scatter?

They are one-hit and 80 points per piece (assuming you take the lance strike, which will be the only one to go through his armour)?

 

 

 

 

This thread is open to anyone, from IG to Chaos, but yeah, I play DHs so I'm interested in DH strategies, naturally.

[Captain Malachi]

Yeah I know the orbital strike won't work, but it was the best pure DH thing I could think of that hadn't been said. And to be fair, 3600 points of guardsman would likely obliterate him, any retinue he happens to have, and then carve a nice big hole in the rest of his army. And then they'd die.

[Inquisitor Fox]

And...a normal guardsman is 6 points I think.

You will get around 45 Guardsmen or so for the price of Abaddon.

I'm sure if they form a circle around him, they can all fire. The fun is over once he gets into close combat however.

 

...

 

This thread is open to anyone, from IG to Chaos, but yeah, I play DHs so I'm interested in DH strategies, naturally.

 

You actually get 45 Guardsmen for 280 points, although one is an officer with a pistol and close combat weapon. Let's throw them against Abaddon.

 

Assuming the ring around Abaddon strategy, you have 45 men in rapid fire range, hitting on 4's, with one man armed with a pistol. So that's 89 shots x .5 hits x .3333 wound (assuming he's toughness 4, if it's toughness 5 it gets worse) = 14.8319 wounds. Lets be nice and say 15 wounds. Now, he has a 2+ save.. so that's 2.5 wounds inflicted.. and doesn't he get a reroll if he misses an armor save? So that's actually 0.4168 wounds in one rapid fire round from a platoon of guardsmen, unupgraded.

 

He would get to charge one of the 5 units.. so then you have to repeat it with 10 less men (20 less shots).

 

So.. they could stall him the whole game, but he'll probably be alive against like point value of a horde.

 

Now, this is a DH option due to induction, but it's not exactly the most efficient way to kill Abaddon. It'll stall him real well though ^_^ It takes at least 5 rounds of the game for him to kill them all...

[Skytear]

Very nice mathhammer ^_^

 

Abaddon is Toughness 5, so he'd suffer 1/2 of the 15 wounds, 8 wounds, rounding up. (The Guardsmen needing 6s to wound)

 

[EDIT: 8 wounds before saves. No he does not get to reroll armor saves, thank god.]

[Imperator Mos]

I'm assuming he has Eternal Warrior, or I'd say shoot him with lascannons. The only time I faced him, his dice rolls were very bad and my Siege Dreadnought put his drill in Abaddon's face. I want to say I Instant Deathed him... maybe his owner didn't know his rules.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Very nice mathhammer B)

 

Abaddon is Toughness 5, so he'd suffer 1/2 of the 15 wounds, 8 wounds, rounding up. (The Guardsmen needing 6s to wound)

 

[EDIT: 8 wounds before saves. No he does not get to reroll armor saves, thank god.]

 

Whoops, lets redo the mathhammer then..

 

Assuming the ring around Abaddon strategy, you have 45 men in rapid fire range, hitting on 4's, with one man armed with a pistol. So that's 89 shots x .5 hits x .1667 wound = 7.41829 wounds. Now, he has a 2+ save.. so that's 1.2366 wounds inflicted in one rapid fire round from a platoon of guardsmen, unupgraded.

 

Then since you loose 10 of them for his round of combat (being realistic here), you still have 35 men to fire the next round at him. This seems like it may be your best tactic ^_^

[Thaelion Hexis]

If Grey knights had low AP weaponry, it would be a lot easier. My opinion would be to pummel him with plasma from storm trooper squads/inducted troops.

[YourMumRang]

I think a Vindicare could put a few wounds on him, particularly using the Shield-Breaker and getting lucky with the Turbo-Penetrator. He can't hide in a unit and hitting on 2+, wounding on 4+ with AP2 could stand a chance.

[Thaelion Hexis]

Yes, assasination... I'm not sure his Initiative, how would a Callidus fare in at least softening him up?

[minigun762]

I want to say that someone ran the numbers on this awhile ago and we came to the conclusion that a large enough squad of Hive Tyrants/Tyrant Guards was your best bet.

Let me see if I can find the topic:

 

here we go! http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...7734&st=150

[revnow]

A Callidus would die outright I5 v I6 and Abbadon instagibs against T4.

 

The Vindicare is not a bad idea.

 

More importantly, I think there are two good ways for a Daemonhunter to kill Abbadon. The first I have done, the second I have only done the math on.

 

The first occurred in a 2v2 tournament game. I was playing Daemonhunters with 2 Landraiders, 2 Inquisitor squads, (1 firebase, 1 MC hunter), a Callidus Assassin, and 2 squads of stormtroopers. My ally was standard 2 platoon, 2 Russ guard with Cameleoline, Close Order Drill, and Droptroops. We managed to disable Abbadon's Land Raider with target priority fire early on in the game, it also helped that the other chaos HQ, a Sorcerer, deepstruck near the firebase and got popped. Anyways, Abbadon was forced to footslog to get to the guard units, which meant walking through enough firepower over 2 turns to generate 1 failed armor save and 1 failed invul save from my ally's lasguns and plasma. This was all happening while I played control against the other player. On turn 4 Abbadon wiped a guard squad, and I proceeded to drive the MC hunter's squad over to him, unload the squad, and dump 3 plasma rapid fires into him (2 sages for a re-roll on a failed 1). This produced 4 wounds and statistically, Abbadon failed 2 invul saves, killing him. This instance was very situational, but the overall lesson is that plasma is usually cheap and enough plasma can take care of big ugly.

 

The second method works out math wise, and was mentioned earlier. Given the popularity of Chaos lately most GMs should be carrying at least sacred incense to deal with Daemon Princes. It also seems that a storm shield to replace the bolter is a popular choice, so I am including that as well. I am also putting the GM on the charge since a discerning Daemonhunter would have to be willing to charge the GM in in order to achieve this. With sacred incense both the GM and Abby go simultaneously, the GM is not immune to ID, and baring a 1 on Abby's Daemon Weapon roll, the GM is statistically dead. SO the math says this.

 

6A @ WS5=3H=2W=1 unsaved wound g

 

Given an unsaved wound you now have a 91.7% chance of zapping Abby with the force weapon upon a succesfull psychic test. So, on average a Daemonhunter should be able to sacrifice a GM to kill Abbadon. The only way the GM survives is if Abbadon rolls a 1 on the Daemon Weapon. Given my playstyle though, I would probably just ignore the bastard and go for everything else, but only after making sure to disable his Land Raider. It seems like a more points efficient approach to addressing Abbadon.

 

Also Land Raiders are the only thing Abbadon can't get into combat with and just destroy outright.

 

I am somewhat curious about this "Hive Tyrant solution", have radicals in the Ordo Xeno managed to capture a Norm Queen and begin breeding for domestication? :P

[Sarael]

I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

Exterminatus. And you'll be considered fluffy for doing it :tu:

[Doomaflatchi]

While Abbadon is, perhaps, the most point efficient assault model in all of 40k, it's almost impossible for him to make full use of that power in one game. Considering that he still only moves 6", can't sweeping advance, and can't consolidate into other units, he's just too easy to outrun, outmaneuver, or just plain ignore. My Chaos-playing friend refuses to use him for exactly that reason - for the same cost, two Daemon Princes just have a larger outcome on the battle. The only exception is using Abbadon in a Lash of Submission army (but if someone really wants to win that badly, they're not in it for the fun, and I'll just concede).

 

Rather than seeing Abbadon as a hulking machine of death (and thus being intimidated by him), I just prefer to see him as the center of a 12" radius black hole, where my units just shouldn't go. If your army is even remotely mobile, he's pretty easy to move around, and then he's just a 275 point boat anchor, leaving you free to engage the rest of his force at a 4 to 3 advantage.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I am somewhat curious about this "Hive Tyrant solution", have radicals in the Ordo Xeno managed to capture a Norm Queen and begin breeding for domestication? :devil: :D

 

Say hello to my pet Ripper!

"Miaow." ;)

[benmothershaw]

GrandMaster, Sacred Incense, Holy Relic

Retinue of - GKT terminators

Holy Relic should be better because it is similar to MC and gives your unit +1 attack for 15pts.

Imo don't expect to come out with GKT in polished armour!

...

GM and Abbadon Strike at same time.

:PGM hits 3 times, wounds 2 times, unsaved wound 1. Then just relying on the Pyschic Test.

Abbadon hits 5 times? wounds 3 times? unsaved wounds 2? I'm not familiar with him. But the GM retinue will certainly absorb all the hits.

 

I played a game allied with Orks, he squigged abbadon hahaha. And I've seen him die another time when everyone decided shoot at him for a turn!

 

I also remember the apocalypse sheet for assassins, didn't it say something about Abbadon being tracked by the assassinorum in the early days and there were Vindicares try to assassinate him but obviously... they failed.