Taking down Abaddon:

[revnow]

Holy Relics cost 30 pts. And if combat is going down on Abby's turn, your GM is already dead, so its not worth taking.

[Red Lost Soldier]

My 'killing' solution would be as much plasma as you can bring plus an allied librarian with null zone. 5 IST can bring 2 plasma guns, Inquisitors with plasma pistols and plasma cannon/plasma guns retinue, plasma cannon dreads etc. It might be considered tooling but this kind of strategy works well against any tough but small in number unit, like the new TH/SS Terminators.

 

Not sure of the mathammer but should be around 6 plasma wounds to bring him down? If he is the biggest baddest mo fo comabt nutcase in the galaxy, shooting him just seems to be the smart thing to do.

 

Of course avoiding him is a good strategy too.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Okay i say lots of Meltguns for a SoB army.

Dominion squads combined with a troop sqaud rapid fire with Divine Guidance

 

Or

 

A Shadowsword Baneblade

It worked for me, cant get a Invulnerable save agaisnt A "D" strength weapon

[GodwynDi]

Even against D strength, Abaddon still gets a 5+ save.

[Phitax]

abbadon get's 4+ invunrable save and he's immune to instant death so D weapon's wont work to well

i'd say lot's of power weapon attack's

 

p.s alway's attack on back armour for veichles he's strength 8 WITHOUT powerfist

iniative 6 able to re-roll to wound 4 + d6 attack's NOT on the charge

[Charred Heretic]

A WH player would be happy to see lil' Abner on the field.

Most likely I'd tarpit him with basic sisters and also bolter spam him to death when he fails to sweep.

 

Plasma spam from two IST squads is simple, and not over-tooling,

as plasma kills all things indiscriminately, and its range is both short and long.

 

Heh, what if three Land Raiders formed a wagon train around him? Silly, I know.

[Narthecium]

And...a normal guardsman is 6 points I think.

You will get around 45 Guardsmen or so for the price of Abaddon.

I'm sure if they form a circle around him, they can all fire. The fun is over once he gets into close combat however.

 

...

 

This thread is open to anyone, from IG to Chaos, but yeah, I play DHs so I'm interested in DH strategies, naturally.

 

You actually get 45 Guardsmen for 280 points, although one is an officer with a pistol and close combat weapon. Let's throw them against Abaddon.

 

Assuming the ring around Abaddon strategy, you have 45 men in rapid fire range, hitting on 4's, with one man armed with a pistol. So that's 89 shots x .5 hits x .3333 wound (assuming he's toughness 4, if it's toughness 5 it gets worse) = 14.8319 wounds. Lets be nice and say 15 wounds. Now, he has a 2+ save.. so that's 2.5 wounds inflicted.. and doesn't he get a reroll if he misses an armor save? So that's actually 0.4168 wounds in one rapid fire round from a platoon of guardsmen, unupgraded.

 

He would get to charge one of the 5 units.. so then you have to repeat it with 10 less men (20 less shots).

 

So.. they could stall him the whole game, but he'll probably be alive against like point value of a horde.

 

Now, this is a DH option due to induction, but it's not exactly the most efficient way to kill Abaddon. It'll stall him real well though :cuss It takes at least 5 rounds of the game for him to kill them all...

 

 

 

For my .02, mathhammer is all good and well but doesn't really average out quite that way. Says my Brother Captain who was killed with one shot from a shuriken pistol.

[Captain Hajime]

Don't sisters have Melta?

[benmothershaw]

Holy Relics cost 30 pts. And if combat is going down on Abby's turn, your GM is already dead, so its not worth taking.

Sacred Incense means GM will strike same time with abby.

Abby will hit retinue.

GM will force weapon (6 attacks) along with any GKT from the retinue with 4 Attacks each and send him to the warp where he belongs.

[Warp Angel]

I think that I have to agree with the stormtroopers being your best bet.

 

Equip a full squad with 2 PG, and a PP/PW on the sergeant.

 

Get within 12", and rapid fire with that and the hellguns.

 

You'll average 2 wounds from shooting. Positioned well, you're the only real choice to charge, so he slams into you, killing 5. If you get lucky you get another wound in CC. So he's now down 3.

 

And you can pretty much do to him whatever you want from there.

 

2 stormtrooper squads equipped that way stands a strong chance of taking him down in shooting.

 

And they are an effective unit in their own right.

 

Although if I were playing vanilla marines: Sternguard with combi melta/plasma.

[revnow]

I think the overall message is that you should consider taking down Abby in the same way you plan out taking down a Daemon Prince (or eqv).

[skarn]

If your playing Apocolypse, give the Legion Relic asset to a GM. That should do the trick. Fits the fluff too; the sword of mandulis(sp?) in the first grey knights novel. ^_^

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd probably go for this, TBH;

 

Grandmaster, NFW, storm shield, sacred incense

4 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(349 points)

 

Seeing as you get a retinue and Abby doesn't, the extra point expenditure is reasonable.

 

If he charges you (assuming he rolled a 3-4 for the extra attacks) ;

 

Abby kills 2 x GKT's with his attacks (due to the official retinue, GM can't get picked out in close-combat)

At the same time, GM probably gets a wound past Abby defences ( 83% probability), and probably pass his psychic test to fry him. If he doesn't, you still rip a wound off Abby.

Assuming you GM fails, the remaining pair of GKT's bash Abby with their hammers, stunning him and probably causing a wound (83% probability)

 

Next round of combat, Abby can't attack until everyone else is done poking/hammering him (hooray for thunderhammers!)

GM causes another wound, and hopefully passes the test this time to fry Abby.

GKT's take the final wound off Abby.

 

Combat ends at the end of the CSM Assault phase. You start your turn, able to either assault something else (like a Daemon Prince) or get in a Landraider and fall back.

 

 

If you charge him (again, assuming he rolls average for Daemon weapon) ;

 

Abby kills 2 x GKT's like before

GM definately gets a wound past Abby's defences (just 1), and probably frys him with a psychic test. If not, still ripped a wound off him

GKT's slap another wound off Abby, and stun him

 

Next round, they finish him off like before (either GM frys him or the GKT's knock his last wound off).

 

 

For loyalist armies, the only real option they have are 8 x Assault Terminators (only 5 points more than Abby).

 

If getting charged (assuming once again average Daemon Weapon rolls)

Abby only kills one (even with his re-rolls to wound, so sad!)

The remaining seven rip 3 wounds off him, and stun him (even with their newer rules this still happens, because they got a wound past him)

 

Next round, they hammer him to death. They consolidate

 

If charging Abby (again, normal DW rolls)

Abby kills one (those newer storm shields are incredibly sexy...)

The remaining seven bash him to death.

 

 

Abby is a very dangerous character, but the new vanilla Assault Termies totally steamroller him. For 5 points more they're a much more effective assault unit. Likewise, we can still build a highly effective GM+retinue build that's less powerful but still slaps Abby down eventually (and unlike the vanilla Termies, we have a 'headshot' weapon ie the GM, lurking inside the unit if the retinue rolls poorly).

[Captain Hajime]

Quit calling him Abby! Abby is a Cute Perky Goth Girl who much smarter than any of us here. Who if she played 40k would likely play Blood Angels, though it possible she like Elder too.

[Charred Heretic]

Well, for the record, I didn't actually call him "Abby". I called him "'lil Abner".

[SJumppanen]

How well would full sized SoB squad do against him? Or pair of Exorchists?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Quit ca;;;omg him Abby! Abby is a Cute Perky Goth Girl who much smarter than any of us here. Who if she played 40k would likely play Blood Angels, though it possible she like Elder too.

 

:) Ok then...

 

Well, for the record, I didn't actually call him "Abby". I called him "'lil Abner".

 

;) Excellent.

 

How well would full sized SoB squad do against him? Or pair of Exorchists?

 

Hmmm....well, he inflicts about 4 x S8 wounds every round, so assuming you roll 'Spirit of the Martyr' every turn you can tie him up for a fair while. 20 x SoB will hold him down for ages, as he only kills 1-2 per round of combat. He can't Sweeping Advance either, so if you choose to you can run away at the end of the CSM Assault phase (by not using Book), and then turn around and assault him again in your turn. He's bound to roll that '1' on the DW eventually...you won't kill him with the SoB, you'll just tarpit him in a sea of 3+ invulnerable saves.

 

Two Exorcists take about 2 turns of continous fire to bring him down (assuming you roll 3-4 for your shots, which is about average).

[SJumppanen]

Hmmm....well, he inflicts about 4 x S8 wounds every round, so assuming you roll 'Spirit of the Martyr' every turn you can tie him up for a fair while. 20 x SoB will hold him down for ages, as he only kills 1-2 per round of combat. He can't Sweeping Advance either, so if you choose to you can run away at the end of the CSM Assault phase (by not using Book), and then turn around and assault him again in your turn. He's bound to roll that '1' on the DW eventually...you won't kill him with the SoB, you'll just tarpit him in a sea of 3+ invulnerable saves.

 

Two Exorcists take about 2 turns of continous fire to bring him down (assuming you roll 3-4 for your shots, which is about average).

 

I wasn't going to assault him with SoB, but to shoot him with them. How many wounds he got anyway?

 

But i think that i would simply just concentrate everything i can on him when i can. Sisters, Seraphims and Exorchists.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I wasn't going to assault him with SoB, but to shoot him with them. How many wounds he got anyway?

 

He's got 4, at T5 with 2+/4+ defences, plus Eternal Warrior and Fearless. He just doesn't die. You really need either rock-hard assault infantry (TH+SS Assault Termies) or a 'red button' (ie Grandmaster's force weapon attack) to kill him. He'll absorb ungodly amounts of punishment and still instant-death everything he touches.

 

If you wanna shoot down Lil' Abner, you're going to need a metric truckload of bolters. Crunching the numbers...it takes 60 x DG bolter shots to kill him, on average.

 

So, if you can get 3 x 10-woman squads or 2 x 15-woman squads into rapid-fire range and pull off 'Divine Guidance' on both, statistically he'll fail one 2+ save to normal bolter wounds, and out of the 6 x AP1 wounds you inflict he'll only save 3.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't bother. Just dump Exorcist fire into him until he drops. That or bring some IST's with plasma guns, or an Inquisitor with plasma pistol, Acolyte combi-plasma and Guardsman plasma rifle as a retinue. Dump a whole pile of AP2 into him and he should drop (Sages help to negate overheat, so don't forget to bring a pair of them for the retinue).

[SJumppanen]

I wasn't going to assault him with SoB, but to shoot him with them. How many wounds he got anyway?

 

He's got 4, at T5 with 2+/4+ defences, plus Eternal Warrior and Fearless. He just doesn't die. You really need either rock-hard assault infantry (TH+SS Assault Termies) or a 'red button' (ie Grandmaster's force weapon attack) to kill him. He'll absorb ungodly amounts of punishment and still instant-death everything he touches.

 

If you wanna shoot down Lil' Abner, you're going to need a metric truckload of bolters. Crunching the numbers...it takes 60 x DG bolter shots to kill him, on average.

 

So, if you can get 3 x 10-woman squads or 2 x 15-woman squads into rapid-fire range and pull off 'Divine Guidance' on both, statistically he'll fail one 2+ save to normal bolter wounds, and out of the 6 x AP1 wounds you inflict he'll only save 3.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't bother. Just dump Exorcist fire into him until he drops. That or bring some IST's with plasma guns, or an Inquisitor with plasma pistol, Acolyte combi-plasma and Guardsman plasma rifle as a retinue. Dump a whole pile of AP2 into him and he should drop (Sages help to negate overheat, so don't forget to bring a pair of them for the retinue).

 

And add to that any IP shots you can arrange. Anyway, why i was wondering that bolter thing is that A isn't going to be alone, so it is possible that i need to use Exorchists to keep anything else in order. Also, Exorchists are known to have failed to fire/hit/wound from time to time, so it might be left to sisters to finish him.

[Melissia]

The only way you can get Spirit of the Martyr with a 20 member squad is by attatching an HQ unit with Litanies of Faith. An item which can only be used once per battle.

 

 

Now... assuming it is just twenty Sisters....

 

40 shots at BS4 means that roughly 26.4 shots will actually hit Abbadon

Of these, 8.712 will wound.

Of these, 1.452 will not be saved

 

So a 20 member Battle Sister squad, with the entire squad firing at rapid fire range on Abbadon without Abbadon having a retinue or being attatched, will cause 1.452 wounds per turn on average, not including Acts of Faith. The best Act of Faith in this instance would be Divine Guidance, which would cause, on average, 4.4 shots to become AP1 and thus use his 4+ save instead, which would increase the chance of causing a second wound to him.

 

One could also assault with Hand of the Emperor. On the charge one would get two attacks per Battle Sister at S5, depending on how many you can actually get to surround Abbadon. Naturally, shooting is the better option, if only because of the Battle Sisters' WS3, lack of CC weaponry, and the problem of actually getting that many models within range to attack him.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The only way you can get Spirit of the Martyr with a 20 member squad is by attatching an HQ unit with Litanies of Faith. An item which can only be used once per battle.

 

Oh yeah...I dunno, let them die normally for the first round? That would probably get you well within 12 models. They've got Book (wouldn't hurt to have Seraphim/Canoness nearby for +1Ld either), so they shouldn't break in that first round. Then 'Spirit' them next turn to hold him still, and charge in a GM or Canoness to chart whittling him down.

One could also assault with Hand of the Emperor. On the charge one would get two attacks per Battle Sister at S5, depending on how many you can actually get to surround Abbadon. Naturally, shooting is the better option, if only because of the Battle Sisters' WS3, lack of CC weaponry, and the problem of actually getting that many models within range to attack him.

 

Run means you can get within range pretty quickly, especially if he's trundling along in a Landraider or something. 'Hand' is only going to work if you already used DG, so thats two Acts of Faith. Due to 'Defenders React' and pile-in you should be able to draw Lil' Abner into the middle of the Sisters, and get most if not all the squad swinging. I reckon you can fit a twenty-woman squad around him comfortably within the 2" range of a SoB in BTB with him. So thats (assuming you charged)

 

40 x attacks, 20 x hits, 10 x wounds, 5 unsaved

 

So you can actually kill him with a charge, provided they all get within 2" of a fellow SoB in BTB after pile-in. You only need 16 x SoB swinging to kill him, on average (32 x attacks, 16 x hits, 8 x wounds, 4 unsaved).

[CelestialSon]

If he is out on his own, an inquisitor and retinue can put the boots to him with 3 warriors with plasmas, 3 alcolytes with plasma pistols and the inquisitor with a plasma pistol.

 

If this is a apoc game, i'd suggest the squad of eversors. They'll put him down fast

[Melissia]

The only way you can get Spirit of the Martyr with a 20 member squad is by attatching an HQ unit with Litanies of Faith. An item which can only be used once per battle.

 

Oh yeah...I dunno, let them die normally for the first round? That would probably get you well within 12 models. They've got Book (wouldn't hurt to have Seraphim/Canoness nearby for +1Ld either), so they shouldn't break in that first round. Then 'Spirit' them next turn to hold him still, and charge in a GM or Canoness to chart whittling him down.

One could also assault with Hand of the Emperor. On the charge one would get two attacks per Battle Sister at S5, depending on how many you can actually get to surround Abbadon. Naturally, shooting is the better option, if only because of the Battle Sisters' WS3, lack of CC weaponry, and the problem of actually getting that many models within range to attack him.

 

Run means you can get within range pretty quickly, especially if he's trundling along in a Landraider or something. 'Hand' is only going to work if you already used DG, so thats two Acts of Faith. Due to 'Defenders React' and pile-in you should be able to draw Lil' Abner into the middle of the Sisters, and get most if not all the squad swinging. I reckon you can fit a twenty-woman squad around him comfortably within the 2" range of a SoB in BTB with him. So thats (assuming you charged)

 

40 x attacks, 20 x hits, 10 x wounds, 5 unsaved

 

So you can actually kill him with a charge, provided they all get within 2" of a fellow SoB in BTB after pile-in. You only need 16 x SoB swinging to kill him, on average (32 x attacks, 16 x hits, 8 x wounds, 4 unsaved).

Erm?

 

Try this instead:

 

40 attacks

13.2 attacks hit (Battle Sisters have WS3)

6.6 wounds

1.1 unsaved wounds.

 

However, this is misleading, because Hand of hte Emperor forces the entire squad to strike at initiative 1.

 

So...

 

Assuming Abbadon rolls a 6...

10 attacks

6.6 attacks hit

5.5 attacks wound

5.5 Sisters die on average (no saves)

 

Sisters make 30 attacks after (15x2)

10 of them hit.

5 of them wound

Sisters cause 0.83 unsaved wounds per round.

 

 

 

May have done the math a bit wrong, but the point is that it's definitely better for the Sisters to shoot instead of assault against such a high WS model. Also, remember that he has a 2+ armor save. The average Sister cannot ignore this excepton a to wound roll of 6, which requires ANOTHER Act of Faith to be used.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, it is always better to shoot him, I was just trying to find a workable way to do it in close-combat. It seems you'll just burn up too much Faith doing it, better off using massed 'DG' bolters or IST plasma (or better yet, Exorcists).

 

I wonder how Celestians would go....actually, doing the math they do pretty much as well as a 20-strong SoB squad with all their stuff turned on ('Martyr' from the Litanies, 'DG' and 'Hand' from normal tests). The difference is that Celestians, as a retinue, can hide the Canoness (she'll get flattened by Abner in close-combat, cos he can find her in a normal Troops unit). So, you'll actually get your eviscerator attacks in without fear of dying first.