Jonny Wolf Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Brothers, can anyone crack this list: Warboss on a bike, power claw, cybork body, tough 5 - 5+ invul, 5 attacks, furious charge, 3 wounds, Waagh banner 8x Nob Bikerz, 3 power claws, boss pole, cybork bodies, 5+ invul, furious charge, 2 wounds each, toughness 5 Pain boy on bike, FNP So, they get a permanent 4+ cover save due to their exhaust fumes 3+ invul when they turbo boots 5+ permanent invul Feel no Pain Two wounds each Waagh banner Furious charge Toughness 5 ....oh! and twin-linked 3 shot, strength 7 machine guns....(and don't give me stuff about their ballistics skill, lol) Now, my buddy plays this list and he's getting ready to make a second squad of the same... I personally believe this is a Monumentally Broken List - slipped through the cracks during play testing. Any thoughts on how to kill this? And no ale for the first guy that says vindicator! ;) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 PIE PLATES! oh we're serious here? hmm... Well at ard boyz my buddy played this list, I had 13th company, I massacred him... lots of power fists and weapons do the job, it cuts through their T5 and it takes them out one by one without the need for multiple wounds (double the toughness) and they don't get their feel no pain. Get into combat, hit hard, and that's the way to kill them with S8 power fists (S10 DCCW works too but be careful of power claws). Wulfen work nicely too, but it takes 13th company at that point. Shooting is best left to the rest of the ork army, most of the time the bikes will ignore everything you throw at them... sure flamestorm cannons work nicely, but that's only taking out one of their wounds at a time, and I've only seen it THAT much more effective with nullzone, and they STILL get feel no pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaldnir Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well what the above poster said rings true....A couple venerable dreadnoughts will also work wonders. You could also try using Logan(I realize this isnt play fair) with his axe he can make short work of every greenskin monkey on the field(even if they happen to be hiding in a tank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Good points...thanks brother. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yeah.... this is a job for the bloodclaws. Drop pod a squad, or two, with power weapons, and maybe an ironclad right around them. Hide on the other side of the pods, and then charge with whatever you got.... or counter charge. You should do some damage to them, and once the rest pile in your good to go. Lets look at the points of this unit: Warboss with the above equipment, including boss pole- 140pts. He cant have a Waaagh banner BTW. 8 Nobz, on bikes, with cybork bodies and a painboy- 430pts. Waagh banners for all+ 3 powerclaws- 195pts. Thats a total of 765pts. So the question is... what can you get for 765pts in a space wolve army that can deal with these guys? Lets see... WGBL- Frostblade, Assault Cannon, TDA, RC, Pelt WGBG- TDA, RC, Assault Cannon, LC. WGBG- TDA, RC, Assault Cannon, LC. WGBG- TDA, RC, LC, SS. WGBG- TDA, RC, LC, SS. In a drop pod. 413pts. 12x Bloodclaws- 2x Powerweapon, 1x Powerfist, in a drop pod- 231pts. 12x Bloodclaws- 2x Powerweapon, 1x Powerfist, in a drop pod- 231pts. So thats 875pts. Sue me. But you get the idea. Instead of looking at a single unit that can take them on look at a combination that can work for you. He probly wont run this in less than 1500 pts. That being the case bring in a vendread in a pod and a Grey Hunter shoot-pack in a pod. Throw in a pair of whirlwinds and a predator for some firepower against his other boys and you should be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Nice one Mage, thanks... I think I've been plateaud or hit a mental block on what to do...these are giving me some great new angles to deal with him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I agree that GM made a nasty counter unit, but look at power fists and thunder hammers over the lightning claws and power weapons... needing 5's to wound is tough, needing 2's to wound and you cut through armour and FnP? hell yea I'll take that. Granted you'll be swinging last, but there's a reason why you have re-rollable 2+'s and 3++ inv. saves... wound allocation is nasty... just use Omar's 4 AC in a pod squad... that's 8 models (7 WGBG and 1 WGBL) that have storm shield allocation and stuff... also giving them combi-flamers/plas/melta is nice too before the charge and counter. I agree the Ironclad is a tough nut to crack and puts a lot of hurt out... the Ven. Dread by far is the nastiest for the points, but he's likely to blow up on that first round of combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'm with Mage. Counter his mobility with well placed semi-mobile units and perhaps static strong units. Ala drop podded Termies and Blood Claws. Other than that? Maybe some BC Bike Pack and Long Fangs, with a AC/Melta Dred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 i have seen it a few times, but have always done well with dealing with it. the first time, i wasn't expecting it at all, so didn't really think of a way to counter it. i wound up shooting SB, 4x AssC, and some bolters at them until they kinda just gone.i think it took three rounds or shooting and i had to sacrifice my infiltrating scouts. the next time was against the same guy, but i was using IG... pie plates... and a whole lot more shooting. two turns, with out them touching a single thing. the last time was my favorite. we were messing around with playing 2.5k games and the local ork player wanted to try something he heard about out. i was 99% sure it was this. so i did something really fun too. i took the grey knight termies. with three incinerators (two on GKT and one on the GKBC). remember, turbo busting is a cover save now, not an invulnerable save(which would matter ether way with incinerators, but i wanted him to know, that he didn't get and armor save, invul. save, or cover save). i got really luck on the deepstrike and landed about 2 inches away from his squad funneling between two buildings, well and "there's nothing the smell of freshly incinerated ork in the evening." the whole squad bit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Grey Mage has got the right idea. Swarm them with multiple units. Don't even bother shooting at them unless you've got AP2 weaponry or better unless you're planning on charging them. 24 bolter shots = 18 hits = wounds = 3 failed saves = 1.5 unsaved wounds after FNP. (about 1 in 15 shots will wound, and with wound allocations, that's 45 or more needed to kill a single Nob in shooting, depending on squad loadout) 24 AP2 weapon (S7 or higher) = 18 hits = 15 wounds = 7.5 failed saves = 7.5 wounds (lbetter than 1 in 3 will wound, and if S8 or higher, will kill outright) The story: You have to be supurbly lucky to do jack to them in shooting without template weapons. When you do swarm them, hit them with three or more full squads, supporting them with a Dreadnaught if you have one (but never send the Dread in alone), and ALWAYS with characters. They can be overwhelmed, and even if you aren't overwhelming them, you're lowering their total model count so they are less effective in later turns. Those wounds that don't kill outright add up, and eventually the squad gets relatively fragile compared to where they started. Use sacrificial units to delay them getting to your important ones, screen with rhinos and other vehicles to deny them the charge, and think about using reserves to be able to dictate where on the board he's going to be able to move and how you're able to concentrate your forces. Not an easy fight, but their low model count starts to work against them after a couple of turns. Assuming you survive the first couple turns relatively intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 You think a Nob bike mob is hard? Two weeks ago i had faced a Nob ARMY!!!. Two Warboss (one with bike), a Nob bike mob with Pain Boy, two Nob mobs with pikkups and Pain Boys and 2x 7 Looters. Believe me that wasn´t funny. The pikkup mobs had been his troop choises. All Nobs with FNP and cybork body. That´s sick. To make it more worse i wasn´t with my SW but with my Salamanders. In 16 years i had never been overrun that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Still, a low model count, with small squad size, subject to leadership checks. Focused fire should be enough that by turn 2, 2 casualties will end up causing him to run 40% of the time. Nobz are amazing. Until they have to start making leadership checks. Trukks are amazing, until you realize they're AV10, open topped, and can be popped at range by just about anything. Lootas at 7 men will break after 2 casualties. And they only have a 6+ save. It sounds like you were caught by surprise and weren't able to concentrate like you would have wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 You think a Nob bike mob is hard? Two weeks ago i had faced a Nob ARMY!!!. Two Warboss (one with bike), a Nob bike mob with Pain Boy, two Nob mobs with pikkups and Pain Boys and 2x 7 Looters. Believe me that wasn´t funny. The pikkup mobs had been his troop choises. All Nobs with FNP and cybork body. That´s sick. To make it more worse i wasn´t with my SW but with my Salamanders. In 16 years i had never been overrun that fast. Oh, don't get me wrong DB. The :angry:B* has a battle wagon with a def rolla. Inside is Grazkull and another nobz squad with a pain boy. And another Battle wagon with def rolla full of boyz. My intent is to blow the battle wagon so the nobz and Graz have to slow and purposeful their *sses across the board while I deal with the first biker squad. Along that line...does anyone else believe the ork list/dex broken? Def Rolla for example gives 1d6 strength 10 hits against a unit when it tank shocks. If you death or glory it gets 2d6 str10 hits. Now if you death or glory with a dread it gets 2d6 str10 hits to the REAR armor. What in Russ' foamy ale moustache is that all about???!?!? Broken is my opinion. No need to swear and certainly no need to bypass the swear filter, next time you'll get a warning, Max_Dammit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Death or Glory is bad odds even for a Dreadnaught against a Rhino. It's suicide against a Battlewagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 agreed...but 2d6 str10?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 WGBL- Frostblade, Assault Cannon, TDA, RC, PeltWGBG- TDA, RC, Assault Cannon, LC. WGBG- TDA, RC, Assault Cannon, LC. WGBG- TDA, RC, LC, SS. WGBG- TDA, RC, LC, SS. In a drop pod. 413pts. 12x Bloodclaws- 2x Powerweapon, 1x Powerfist, in a drop pod- 231pts. 12x Bloodclaws- 2x Powerweapon, 1x Powerfist, in a drop pod- 231pts. Good choice but here, as in almost all cases in V5 Cyclones are better than Assault Cannons. 1 WGBL Frost Blade; Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Shield; Terminator Armour; Wolf tooth necklace; Runic Charm and a Wolf Pelt Wolf Guard Retinue 1 CML; Terminator Armour; Power Fist; Storm Shield;Wolf tooth necklace; Runic Charm and Wolf Pelt 1 CML; Terminator Armour; Chain Fist; Storm Shield;Wolf tooth necklace; Runic Charm and Wolf Pelt 1 CML; Terminator Armour; Power Fist; Storm Shield; Runic Charm and Wolf Pelt 1 Terminator Armour; Power Fist; Storm Shield; Wolf tooth necklace; Runic Charm and Wolf Pelt 1 Combi Bolter; Storm Shield; Wolf Pelt 1 Combi Bolter; Storm Shield 1 Bolter; Storm Shield 4 Fenrisian Wolves The unit comes out at 663 pts, cheaper than a full 10 man Nob squad. Against bikers they'll have at least a round of shooting, dishing out 8 S8 shots against which Nobs only have their 4+ cover save (remember always take a Venerable Dread to get first turn and prevent them from turbo-boosting right away). This should kill about 2 Nobs. Next turn they turbo-boost,but on average again 2 dead Nobs from the next volley of missiles. Then the 6 remaining bikers shoot, killing the wolves and a regular marine. They charge, but we can assume that at least a klaw or the painboy have been killed. Let's say that 3 regular nobs and 3 klaws (including the Boss) remain. The WGBL strikes first with 6 attacks that hit on 3+, causing 2 wounds. The 3 Nobs without klaws cause 6 wounds, all saved thanks to the runic charms. They then cause 8 PK wounds, killing a CML WG and 2 regular WG. The WG hit at the same time, causing 8 PF wounds, leaving only the Warboss standing. Next turn the Warboss dies before being able to strike. If there is a 2nd Nob squad, use 3 Vindicators in addition, or Blood Claw squads with 3 PF and a WG with PF and Wolf Tooth Necklace. As Wolf 89 said, power weapons won't do squat here. The latter will dish out when being charged 13 PF attacks, killing on average 4 Nobs. The BC will be slaughtered in a turn of combat, but the Nobs will be nicely bunched up for the Vindicators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 /engage Ork Mode Oi, dis 'eres me time ter shine! Ter beat da Nobz, ya gotta 'it em where it 'urtz! Fer dis, you'ze gotta smack 'em wiv stuff like 'Eavy Flamers and Psycannonz. Anyfing dat takes der Cuvva an Eavy amor away is proppa! Lotsa power weapons charging them will kill 'em off fine so Blood Clawz work great, as do Dreadz! Krak rokkits will do, dey take away his Armor and Feel No Pain, leaving him with a 4+ Cuvva, but Instant Deff. If I come up wiv anyfing else, I'll edit me post. Failing dat, pie plate da zoggz! Now I get ter keep me ale, cuz Wolf said it first right? Waaagh! da pie plate! Waaagh! /disengage Ork Mode Scalphunter/Muhcarfur out :P (sorry if anyone has a hard time understanding this, you gotta learn yer Ork, ya zoggz!) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Blood Claws and Wolf Guard Terminators. Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields and lots of Power Fists, big squad of Blood Claws to absorb the charge of the Bikers or if you can, get the charge first, and Power Fists to Insta Kill them. The bikes increase their toughness to 5 but for insta kill purposes you use the standard toughness of 4, so Thunder Hammers and Power Fists are able to smack down each model with just one hit, gotta love that. Nob Bikers are nasty only if you don't know how to deal with them or aren't expecting them, they also happen to be HORRENDOUSLY expensive, especially with a Warboss attatched, pound em down and watch a huge chunk of your opponents army go bye-bye, even more satisfying when your opponent is relying on them as a scoring unit, which they can be with a Warboss in the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Unfortuneatly Bran...... Krak Missiles dont take away feel no pain. Its gotta be AP 2 or AP 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Instant Deff me boy, Instant Deff... :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Vindicators are better for that, no FNP, forced to use their cover saves, insta kills em. Can be tricky but works better than krak rockets which don't have a huge chance of causing a cassualty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Vindicators are better for that, no FNP, forced to use their cover saves, insta kills em. Can be tricky but works better than krak rockets which don't have a huge chance of causing a cassualty. See I wasn't going to suggest my favorite thing to Jonny because he said no pie plates... so now I'm depressed I missed my chance to say my favorite "V" word.. :devil: VINDICATOR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 They changed that though in the most recent faq- vindicators are now a barrage weapon, so they ignore cover based on the hole. Wouldnt that ignore the smoke screen then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Aye it would it would. Which means they'd be forced to relly on their invulnerable saves... if they took them, which isn't too likely... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Of course the very very bestest would be if they lined up side by side between two redeemers, but thats to impractical even for me ;). EDIT: On an equally impractical note Id like to throw out that while weve mentioned pie plates how about good old regular pie? Choclate cream, or just cream.... throw it over the unit, remove the pie plate, and the entire unit is missing completely. Then, your opponent will see the delicious delicious pie and instantly forget all about his bikers in an attempt to attain it for himself. Youll see it and want to keep it, and thus the person who wins the pie wins the game, and the bikers are removed the situation entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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