Vash113 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ah yea a Crusader full of Wolves, I like it. I've always thought it amusing that the SW and BT are the only two Chapters that can actually FILL a Land Raider Crusader, though incidentally only the SW can do so purely with Power Armored bodies. Good stuff. :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Vanilla Marines = 10 man squad + Master/Captain + Chaplain + Elite Techmarine x3 = 15. Can't QUITE fill it to the brim with PA Marines, but I'm not sure I'd want to be within a mile of that squad. Especially if it was Vanguard + Kantor + Chaplain + Elite Techmarine with Servo Harness x3 is something I don't want to ever mess with. Even without adding upgrades to anything but Servo-Harnesses, you're getting (off the charge) 10 PF attacks, 4 PW attacks, 46 basic attacks. All re-rolling their to-hits. Start upgrading the Vanguard, and Khorne himself trembles in fear.*** Nob bikers are toast. But Spacewolves do it better and with more style. *** not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The problem with marines is each Techmarine with a Servo-Harness is at base what 75 points? x3 your lookin at 225, another 150 or so for a Captain, 100 for a Chaplain, plus just for expediency a round 200 for a Tac squad and you've got 675 points of models in the tank, plus the Land Raider Crusader itself. Space Wolves can do it for less than 300 with full kit. Maybe not quite as nasty but still. 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Guard leader are nothing to scoff at. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 i was going to say we could also throw in ICs if we felt like it too, just we get more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Thats the funny thing... not to get to far off topic, but Ive seen SM lists with more IC's than us at 1500pts, or even 2k. More ontopic however- Johnnywolf?! So, have you had another fight against them? Care to share the results? Anyone else got hands on imperical* evidence? *as opposed to imperial, wich may be made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Nob bikers are not a walk in the park. People would play nob bikers take five of the nobs with power klaws and the warboss with a power klaw. Nob bikers have all of the following saves: 'eavy armor - 4+ armor save warbike - 4+ cover save or 3+ cover save if they turbo boost Painboy - the whole unit had cybork bodies for a 5+ invulnerable save and also benefit from FNP So they get two saves from all shooting attacks. For instance they would get a cover save plus an invulnerable save versus a krak missile. The best way to kill them is in close combat with a S8+ weapon that ignores armor saves. Don't delude yourself and think you can easily defeat this unit. They will go through anything in one round of close combat. They can nuke landraiders in close combat since when charging they get +1S from furious charge. The entire unit is complex so they can parcel out single wounds and not pull whole models. I am not saying they can't be beat but you must have an army specifically designed to beat them and your list should be designed to beat other armies such as lash spam and daemonic hordes if you want to win a lot of games in a competitive tournament environment. I find it very interesting that three of the vanilla SM SCs are armed with either power fists or the thunder hammer... Marneus, Pedro and Darnath. Both Marneus and Darnath are eternal warriors. Vanilla SMs are better equipped to beat nob bikers by using these characters. 0b :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Don't forget that nob bikers take the Waagh banner for +1 WS and boss poles to reroll failed Ld tests. 0b :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 So they get two saves from all shooting attacks. For instance they would get a cover save plus an invulnerable save versus a krak missile. I'm afraid not, no model may take more than one saving throw versus a single wound, cover, invulnerable or armor doesn't matter, you get one. FnP is not a save and is taken after saving throws are made unless it's negated. For instance you can take an armor save and fnp, but you may not take a cover save and then an invulnerable save. Hense a Vindicator Blast will generally blast down Nobz easier than in cc unless your well prepared for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 The problem with marines is each Techmarine with a Servo-Harness is at base what 75 points? x3 your lookin at 225, another 150 or so for a Captain, 100 for a Chaplain, plus just for expediency a round 200 for a Tac squad and you've got 675 points of models in the tank, plus the Land Raider Crusader itself. Space Wolves can do it for less than 300 with full kit. Maybe not quite as nasty but still. 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Guard leader are nothing to scoff at. :cuss And as I said previously... But Spacewolves do it better and with more style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Yea I know, I was agreeing with you. :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Nob bikers get two saves most of the time due to FNP. FNP is for all practical purposes another save. There are a few units in 40k that can single out the pain boy such as a farseer with mind war, daemon with boon of mutation or a vindicare assassin. If you can eliminate the pain boys early in the game it really helps a lot. 0b :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I have beaten nob bikers with a BA list. I had a lot of meltas and a lot of power fists plus I was running Dante and Corbulo. Shooting them with S8+ is ideal since they can't use FNP. Of course the first time you shoot them with a high S gun they will assign the wound to the warboss since S8 does not insta kill him. Dante allows you to reroll all failed hits so this really helps your power fist attacks. You need to make sure you get the charge as the extra attack is needed. Whatever you charge the first squad of nobs with is going to probably die due to there power klaws striking back. I setup so the nob bikers have to take dangerous terrain tests to assault. Their FNP does not work against DT tests by the way but they will get the 5+ invulnerable save. I also use Dante to assassinate the warboss before he can hit back. This where their using the warboss to absorb wounds from shooting can hurt them. 0b :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 The squad I'm putting together for my vow is as follows WL/WGBL with TH/SS 2x WG with TH/SS 2x WG with Assault Cannon and Powerfist all in a redeemer There are better buildouts for this squad, but I'm equipping them in anticipation of the new codex (yeah, I know.... :P ) Anyway, this squad should handle them pretty well. Alternatively, I'm also putting together a WP in TDA that has a Frostblade/Power Weapon with a combi melta. He might be a good choice instead of the WL or in addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Nob bikers get two saves most of the time due to FNP. FNP is for all practical purposes another save. There are a few units in 40k that can single out the pain boy such as a farseer with mind war, daemon with boon of mutation or a vindicare assassin. If you can eliminate the pain boys early in the game it really helps a lot. 0b Actually any unit can single out the Painboy if they force enough saves on the unit to make the Painboy take one. Hense why Vindicators work so well. You get 6 wounds on a Nob Biker Squad of 6 models, the Painboy is going to have to take a save and if he fails, he's toast, regardless of whether the other models saved or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Nob biker players take a warboss and 10 nob bikers. Against vindis they keep spread apart and use turbo boost. Vindis won't stop them. 0b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 10 Bikers and a Warboss fully kitted is well over 800 points, against a full squad that size you can pack on the firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 A buddy of mine in my club won the Baltimore GT and his army has two warbosses leading two full nob biker squads. Shooting alone is not going to stop them. It sounds like you have not actually played against a nob biker list yet to be honest. 0b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladislao Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 hello fellow warrior... i m sorry i did not read the entire thread... by the way, i m actualy playing orks so maybe i can be of help... Yes, the bykers are a very strong unit, but not a cheap one.. you can try to shot them out, but with pour results... light fire scratch them, missiles are countered ( actually i give the wound to the war boss, so i can use also the feel no pain ) maybe some laser blast can scare them, but with a bit of luck this would be uneffective... What i really fear, are s 8 power attack... i will never ever charge a big pack of blood claws... beacouse every power fist attack will outright slay one of my bikers... so use you full fisted blood claws to counter this squad... maybe they will be killed at the end, but taking with them a great part of the strength of the squad, and consider that a nob bikers squad + the war boss is worth more then double a 15 man strong full equipped blood claws squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 hello fellow warrior... i m sorry i did not read the entire thread... by the way, i m actualy playing orks so maybe i can be of help... Yes, the bykers are a very strong unit, but not a cheap one.. you can try to shot them out, but with pour results... light fire scratch them, missiles are countered ( actually i give the wound to the war boss, so i can use also the feel no pain ) maybe some laser blast can scare them, but with a bit of luck this would be uneffective... What i really fear, are s 8 power attack... i will never ever charge a big pack of blood claws... beacouse every power fist attack will outright slay one of my bikers... so use you full fisted blood claws to counter this squad... maybe they will be killed at the end, but taking with them a great part of the strength of the squad, and consider that a nob bikers squad + the war boss is worth more then double a 15 man strong full equipped blood claws squad Ladislao, I'm wondering what you think of terminators to combat this unit. I'm thinking of centering my army around the squad listed below: WL/WGBL with TH/SS 2x WG with TH/SS 2x WG with Assault Cannon and Powerfist all in a Land Raider Redeemer I was originally thinking of BloodCrushers when I decided on this unit, but I think they'll do well against your bikers as well. The redeemer has some punch and the assault cannons should do some damage before the charge. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 A buddy of mine in my club won the Baltimore GT and his army has two warbosses leading two full nob biker squads. Shooting alone is not going to stop them. It sounds like you have not actually played against a nob biker list yet to be honest. Did I say counter the Nobz with shooting alone? No I did not. Please read the posts your responding too before making assumptions. Vindicators and Terminators armed with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields are, in my experience, the most effective ways of dealing with Nob Bikers, and it can help to have a large Blood Claw pack as a meat shield for the Nobz to have to grind through first before reaching the Vindy/s and Termies, but it's not entirely necessary. Alternately Blood Claws can do decently on their own but with much less chance of surviving and hense I prefere Termies and Vindies as they have a greater chance of emerging unscathed than the Blood Claws. But a large fully kitted pack of BC is still far, far cheaper than Nobz, easily 1/3 the cost of the Nobz and Warboss actually so even if the pack bites the dust as long as they take some Nobz with them it's not too bad. So like I said, read first before doubting next time ok? :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 ;) 0b :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Ok folks, noticing the thread getting testy. Please keep the tone civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladislao Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 hello fellow warrior... i m sorry i did not read the entire thread... by the way, i m actualy playing orks so maybe i can be of help... Yes, the bykers are a very strong unit, but not a cheap one.. you can try to shot them out, but with pour results... light fire scratch them, missiles are countered ( actually i give the wound to the war boss, so i can use also the feel no pain ) maybe some laser blast can scare them, but with a bit of luck this would be uneffective... What i really fear, are s 8 power attack... i will never ever charge a big pack of blood claws... beacouse every power fist attack will outright slay one of my bikers... so use you full fisted blood claws to counter this squad... maybe they will be killed at the end, but taking with them a great part of the strength of the squad, and consider that a nob bikers squad + the war boss is worth more then double a 15 man strong full equipped blood claws squad Ladislao, I'm wondering what you think of terminators to combat this unit. I'm thinking of centering my army around the squad listed below: WL/WGBL with TH/SS 2x WG with TH/SS 2x WG with Assault Cannon and Powerfist all in a Land Raider Redeemer I was originally thinking of BloodCrushers when I decided on this unit, but I think they'll do well against your bikers as well. The redeemer has some punch and the assault cannons should do some damage before the charge. What do you think? It's a bit risky... but it could work.... but can be improved, a lot: some advices. You should give Storm shields to every one... you will take enough power fist hits to saturate your unit... so the termy without the shield will die fast, and you cannot afford this right? So you have to change the weapon load out and here you have your ace... cyclone missile launcher.. they will istant kill the bykers, so they cannot take the feel no pain test, and you have 4 shot... 6 if you want to use a wgbl and then what makes our termy so much costly but so much better than the others... runic charms and wolf pelt so, i would do a 4 termy + wgbl squad, with 1 thunder hammer, 2 power fists, a chain fist, the wgbl armed with a single power claw, every one with storm shield, and 2 or three cyclone, runich charms and wolf pelt for every one... this would be a bykerzs killer unit.... but beware not to get lured in some trap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladislao Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 oh, one last thing, kill the warboos as fast as possible, so the leadership of the mob will drop to 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I don't disagree. I should have said it in the opening, but all the WG will have runic charms and pelts. I'm a little leary of giving them all SS as I believe that will not be legal once we get the new codex. I really like the Cyclone. I'm not sure why I haven't looked at it before. I'll probably begin work on a cyclone once I'm done with this squad. Thanks for the input. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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