Lord Ragnarok Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Not played them myself but what about heavy flamers? AP 4 means no Eavy armor, and no cover save, so only leaves Inv of 5 (if so equipped). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1861813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Howland Greywolf Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 IRONCLADS!!!!!!!! Is it possible to shout that louder. Yes they have some nasty PC's on 'em, but get the charge and you'll be laughing. I run two and a venerable at 1,000pts and my freinds hate me for it (mostly because they are unluky). The only real threat is the warboss, but he can be targeted and instadeathed. And with a heavy flamer on one of their arms (the meltergun is good for those times when a nob is exposed) and you have no problems. In theory. Probably. Not. I hope. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1861854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Doesn't the Ironclad strike at Initiative? Going toe to toe with a Warboss with Power Claw doesn't seem like a sane thing to do with a Dreadnaught, let alone all the Nobs. But I guess it could work. The problem with the Heavy Flamer is it doesn't insta kill, so your unlikely to bring down any of the Nobs, wound them probably but the squad will still be kicking and now the heavy flamer toting unit is a juicy target, Land Speeders may be cheap but aren't very durable, Dreadnaughts risk getting torn down by Power Klaws. Hense I prefere either lots of cheap Blood Claws backed up by Wolf Guard or a Vindicator or two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1861986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 They changed that though in the most recent faq- vindicators are now a barrage weapon, so they ignore cover based on the hole. Wouldnt that ignore the smoke screen then? *looks at brand spanking new FAQ for C:SM* Urmm, Demolishers are not Barrage Weapons, they're just normal Ordnance Weapons. C:SM 5th Ed Errata Edit: Spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1861992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Barrage does do cover from the pie hole, however EACH BIKE provides a 4+ cover from the smoke on their bikes so they will all still get their cover unless they are under the pie hole. Remember brothers, they all have a cybork bodies...5+ invul so Iron clads are not necessarily the answer. Further more, he has 10 of these nobz...at the most, you're looking at 4 dead orks on a perfect roll. Leaving 3 Nobz and a warboss with their power claw attacks. @ Wolf89...I know you really wanted to get first dibs on VINDICATOR!!! Sorry. @ Max - apologies for violating the curse policy (sincerely)...wasn't thinking. No ale for me. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 They only have Cybork bodies if they are upgraded with them and a max unit of 10 is absolutely, incredibly expensive. I'd love to see an opponent dump so many points into a single unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 He does dump those points in Vash...they're pretty tough to kill... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Nevertheless all the better since it's now a huge part of his army, take them out and he likely won't have a lot left. Blood Claws, Power Fists, Heavy Flamers and Ordanance are what I'd suggest. A 5+ invulnerable isn't that great, and btw the FAQ's are no longer "official" so to deal with an uber cheesy unit, ignore the change to the rules to lose Barrage and blast them to hades and back. EDIT: Lets crunch some numbers, lemme just nab my bro's Ork Codex *yoink* and have a looksie. Ok the following: Nobz (10) -Bikes x10, Painboy, Grot Orderly, Power Klaw x2, Cybork Bodies x10, Eavy Armor x10, Stikkbombz x10 Total: 645 Points Add to that: Warboss -Eavy Armor, Warbike, Attack Squig, Cybork Body, Eavy Armor, Bosspole, Power Klaw Total: 160 Unit Total: 805 Now if your buddy REALLY ups on wargear, he can add lots more Big Choppa's and Power Klaws, Ammo Runts, combi-weapons, and lots of other nasties and the price can skyrocket even higher. Nevertheless as you can see it's an incredibly, INCREDIBLY expensive unit. Even more expensive than a Land Raider Crusader full of Assault Terminators. So get rid of it and you put a huge dent in his army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Not to side track to far but whats this about FAQ's not being official? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
13thWarrior Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 agreed...but 2d6 str10?? I don't see how these would go against the Dread's Rear Armour? I am also an Ork player ... you can take save against these! There is no AP listed. I suggest Melta Guns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
13thWarrior Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Brothers, can anyone crack this list: Warboss on a bike, power claw, cybork body, tough 5 - 5+ invul, 5 attacks, furious charge, 3 wounds, Waagh banner 8x Nob Bikerz, 3 power claws, boss pole, cybork bodies, 5+ invul, furious charge, 2 wounds each, toughness 5 Pain boy on bike, FNP ....oh! and twin-linked 3 shot, strength 7 machine guns....(and don't give me stuff about their ballistics skill, lol) And no ale for the first guy that says vindicator! ;) :wallbash: If I say Rotacidniv ... does that mean I have extra Ale ration? Dakka Guns are Str 5 only ... you get saves as well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
13thWarrior Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 And the answer to figting the Nob Mob ... Fortify in Bunkers and/ or Ruins and use the table terrain against the Nobs. They will each have to take Dangerous Terrain (sometimes several times each turn). Yes it only occurs on a roll of '1', but with ten rolls that could be two. If they have had to make several tests because they left, entered, or moved through Dangerous Terrain, this could be twenty or more rolls and would cause four or more wounds. No Armor or Cover Save allowed, only Invuln; no Feel No Pain because of no Armor Save. When wounds accumilate, whole models must be removed. The Ork player will be taking wounds in HIS own Movement Phase (counts as free). They cannot Turbo Boost thru Dangerous Terrain, or Shoot or Assault when they TB. Free round of Shooting and Assault for you! Drop Pod or Flank the Nob Mob and make your opponent choose his targets. With this point sink, ITS tactics become crucial! Get them to turn around and travel thru Terrain again or they will have enemies at their rear. Take away their mobility. Make the Ork player Assault you thru terrain (Ruins, etc), they can have StikkBombs, but it is uncommon, will take Dangerous Terrain Tests (see above), YOU will get Counter Attack, YOU will tie Init with the Choppas (which allow Armour Saves) and strike before the Power Klaws. Make them make (and fail) Saves. Attack the WarBoss as an Independent Character with a Frost Blade or Lightning Claws and take him out! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Nevertheless all the better since it's now a huge part of his army, take them out and he likely won't have a lot left. Blood Claws, Power Fists, Heavy Flamers and Ordanance are what I'd suggest. A 5+ invulnerable isn't that great, and btw the FAQ's are no longer "official" so to deal with an uber cheesy unit, ignore the change to the rules to lose Barrage and blast them to hades and back. Heavy Flamers are useless, as Nobz will still have their 5+ invulnerable and their FNP against them. Vindicators have never been Barrage weapons, that would be really stupid rules lawyering to treat them as such. Lets crunch some numbers, lemme just nab my bro's Ork Codex *yoink* and have a looksie. Ok the following:Nobz (10) -Bikes x10, Painboy, Grot Orderly, Power Klaw x2, Cybork Bodies x10, Eavy Armor x10, Stikkbombz x10 Total: 645 Points Add to that: Warboss -Eavy Armor, Warbike, Attack Squig, Cybork Body, Eavy Armor, Bosspole, Power Klaw Total: 160 Unit Total: 805 Now if your buddy REALLY ups on wargear, he can add lots more Big Choppa's and Power Klaws, Ammo Runts, combi-weapons, and lots of other nasties and the price can skyrocket even higher. Nevertheless as you can see it's an incredibly, INCREDIBLY expensive unit. Even more expensive than a Land Raider Crusader full of Assault Terminators. So get rid of it and you put a huge dent in his army. I am myself also an Ork player so I have to correct that: sound Ork players NEVER take Eavy Armor, not Stikkbombz. The main point here is to make every model unique so as to be able spread wounds and only remove a Nob when all of them have been wounded once. Ammo runts and combi-weapons are quite cheap and an easy way to do that. We do the same thing with our WGBG by adding RC and WP to some models only. Btw as I explained higher up in a post ( that nobody seems to have noticed :) ) with a bit of math-hammer, a WGBL with WGBG will ruin a Biker Nob's day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 My opponent doesn't take stick bombs or eavy armor either (he relies on the the bike's T5). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 What about Vindicators, yes he might deploy his models so that you only hit 1 or 2 but their is where the Rhino comes in, Tank shock the unit to put them together and than put down that Pizza. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 He'll do a death or glory attack which is very likely to suceed. The only somewhat reliable way to have them bunched up is if they win a CC and roll poorly for their consolidation move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 He'll do a death or glory attack which is very likely to suceed. The only somewhat reliable way to have them bunched up is if they win a CC and roll poorly for their consolidation move. But that still gets the rest of that squad bunched up, and thats the points, the rhino is cheap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well they'll only have to move aside if they fail their Morale test, which is very unikely as they'll test on the Ld9 of the Warboss with a re-roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott-S6 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Not to side track to far but whats this about FAQ's not being official? FAQs are no longer considered official - they are just guidelines. However, the Vindicator non-barrage rule is from the errata - this is official. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pax Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 *** Edit sorry didnt mean to post hit wrong button Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Heavy Flamers are useless, as Nobz will still have their 5+ invulnerable and their FNP against them. Vindicators have never been Barrage weapons, that would be really stupid rules lawyering to treat them as such. Heavy flamers can do some damage is all I'm saying, I already said they aren't excelent at taking down nobs. I also have a problem with the "stupid rules lawyering" part. If you take a look at the Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition Vindicators Demolisher Cannons are listed as Ordanance 1 Barrage. Sorry if you think that's stupid but I'm afraid it's in the codex and not rules laywering. :) I am myself also an Ork player so I have to correct that: sound Ork players NEVER take Eavy Armor, not Stikkbombz. Really? All the Nob Biker units I've seen have taken Eavy Armor so they last longer in close combat against regular foes, and I see no reason why they wouldn't take Stikkbombz aka Frag Grenades. Unless every Nob is given a Power Klaw they'll still strike at initiative against IG, Tau, Sisters etc. For 10pts that's hardly a huge investment. The main point here is to make every model unique so as to be able spread wounds and only remove a Nob when all of them have been wounded once. Ammo runts and combi-weapons are quite cheap and an easy way to do that. We do the same thing with our WGBG by adding RC and WP to some models only. I don't see the point in that. You can do that regardless of having to make each model unique, you place one wound on each model before you place a second, unless the same model fails more than one save they'll all likely be wounded before one bites the dust anyway. Hense using Insta Kill weapons is generally a far better idea. Btw as I explained higher up in a post ( that nobody seems to have noticed <_< ) with a bit of math-hammer, a WGBL with WGBG will ruin a Biker Nob's day. Maybe, that's assuming a correctly outfitted bodyguard is available, that the Nobz are so kind as to get into combat with said Wolf Guard and don't attack somewhere else. Wolf Guard are capable of dealing with Biker Nobz when well outfitted for it, that doesn't mean we're done discussing the matter. One solution does not mean there aren't others. ;) FAQs are no longer considered official - they are just guidelines. However, the Vindicator non-barrage rule is from the errata - this is official. Unless I'm much mistaken the FAQ's and Errata are one and the same. The Errata documents even say Space Marine FAQ and so forth. The line saying FAQ's were no longer official does include the errata documents as I understand it. Unless your talking about Tournament FAQ's but those have never been official outside of any given tournament. That said what other FAQs are you talking about than the errata FAQs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I also have a problem with the "stupid rules lawyering" part. If you take a look at the Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition Vindicators Demolisher Cannons are listed as Ordnance 1 Barrage. Sorry if you think that's stupid but I'm afraid it's in the codex and not rules laywering. :rolleyes Sorry if I sounded rude, what I meant is that it is obvious that Demolisher Cannons aren't indirect fire weapons. And even if they were, Biker Nobz would still get their cover save as it doesn't come from area terrain, but is a permanent cover. Really? All the Nob Biker units I've seen have taken Eavy Armor so they last longer in close combat against regular foes, and I see no reason why they wouldn't take Stikkbombz aka Frag Grenades. Unless every Nob is given a Power Klaw they'll still strike at initiative against IG, Tau, Sisters etc. For 10pts that's hardly a huge investment. Do you really think that the aforementioned Tau, IG or Sisters without a Power Fist would manage to get past T5, 4+ save and FNP ? They'd need about 50 attacks to cause a single wound. I agree though that in this case Eavy Armour is useful, but most of the times it is redundant with Cybork body. The main point here is to make every model unique so as to be able spread wounds and only remove a Nob when all of them have been wounded once. Ammo runts and combi-weapons are quite cheap and an easy way to do that. We do the same thing with our WGBG by adding RC and WP to some models only. I don't see the point in that. You can do that regardless of having to make each model unique, you place one wound on each model before you place a second, unless the same model fails more than one save they'll all likely be wounded before one bites the dust anyway. Hense using Insta Kill weapons is generally a far better idea. What I meant is that to take full advantage of the new wound allocation rules, Ork players make every Nob unique, thus allowing them to put a wound on each Nob before having to remove one. The larger groups of identical multi-wound models are, the greater is the probability to have to remove whole models even before they are all wounded . In the case of Instant Death of course this is useless, hence my advice of a WGBL with a WGBG with CMLs and lots of PF, combined with Vindicators for good measure :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1862961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 @ Vash - the section for Demolisher cannons is listed as Errata, after that is FAQ. Since the Vindy fix is in Errata, it's completely legal and binding, everything after it is a guideline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1863119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I'll have to check my codex, but I believe there's no reason to take 'eavy armor on Nob Bikers, since taking a bike confers a 4+ armor save in addition to the 4+ cover save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1863150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 @ Vash - the section for Demolisher cannons is listed as Errata, after that is FAQ. Since the Vindy fix is in Errata, it's completely legal and binding, everything after it is a guideline. Ok, I see the different sections, but the whole document is called a FAQ, and FAQs are no longer legal according to GW itself, it didn't say the FAQ section of the FAQ documents, it said the FAQs are no longer legal. I take that to mean the documents in their entirety are no longer legal and official, whether the ruling is under the title Errata or FAQ. Either way GW either needs to grow some cajones and stand by their FAQs or not, saying one part is official, the other not doesn't make a lick of sense. I'll have to check my codex, but I believe there's no reason to take 'eavy armor on Nob Bikers, since taking a bike confers a 4+ armor save in addition to the 4+ cover save. Ah yes that's correct, still even without Eavy Armor the unit still comes to 750+ points, quite a chunk of any army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158810-killer-nob-bikerz-with-a-warboss/page/2/#findComment-1863183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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