[Daemon review] Armoury.

[eyescrossed]

Okay :D

[Captain Malachi]

We've also got the heralds to go through, sorry eyescrossed, but elites won't be for a while. But yes, it will be elites after we finish the HQ section.

[Captain Malachi]

Right, well if we're all done with Slaanesh, we can move on to Nurgle. (if anyone has anything else to say on Slaanesh please feel free, I just want to get the armoury over with fairly quickly)

 

Aura of decay: If you're playing tyranids this can be quite effective on your princes, but otherwise it's overcosted and underpowered, S2 just isn't enough, if it had some kind if AP value maybe, but it doesn't. Not a fan.

 

Cloud of flies: Like aura of aquiescence, this is pretty much mandatory, though a little less so since Nurgle's units have low initiative. Still, I'd take it anyway, so cheap!

 

Noxious touch: Yeah, this is Nurgles game breaker, wouning anything on 2+ makes this one of the most cost effective, and just plain useful, upgrades in the book.

 

Plaguesword: Wounding on a 4+ is nice, but all the units that have these are pretty rubbish in CC anyway, so don't rely on it to win you games. However, it does make plaguebearers are viable anti-MC unit, provided they can get in to combat.

[minigun762]

Aura of decay: If you're playing tyranids this can be quite effective on your princes, but otherwise it's overcosted and underpowered, S2 just isn't enough, if it had some kind if AP value maybe, but it doesn't. Not a fan.

 

Cloud of flies: Like aura of aquiescence, this is pretty much mandatory, though a little less so since Nurgle's units have low initiative. Still, I'd take it anyway, so cheap!

 

Noxious touch: Yeah, this is Nurgles game breaker, wouning anything on 2+ makes this one of the most cost effective, and just plain useful, upgrades in the book.

 

Plaguesword: Wounding on a 4+ is nice, but all the units that have these are pretty rubbish in CC anyway, so don't rely on it to win you games. However, it does make plaguebearers are viable anti-MC unit, provided they can get in to combat.

 

Agreed, the 2 key abilities are Noxious Touch and Cloud of Flies. I'd consider them mandatory upgrades for Daemon Princes, Great Unclean Ones and Heralds (if you ran anything other than Epi)

 

It should be noted that most units need either Noxious Touch or Unholy Might, but both of them is normally overkill.

[Raptor1313]

Pretty much agree on Nurgle. Nurgle's not about tricks, when it comes to the armor.

 

Disagree a bit on Noxious touch, though. Useful on DPs, comes on poppa GUO, but not worth the points on plaguebearers and heralds.

 

I'd note that it's brutal IF you have the volume of attacks to make it worthwhile.

[Captain Malachi]

That's true, I guess I just kinda forgot plaguebearers could even take it. You're right, no point on plaguebearers, and as for heralds, well let's be honest they just shouldn't be taken at all.

[minigun762]

That's true, I guess I just kinda forgot plaguebearers could even take it. You're right, no point on plaguebearers, and as for heralds, well let's be honest they just shouldn't be taken at all.

 

Agreed, I didn't even realize you could take it on Plague Bearers.

I mentioned it on Heralds on the off chance someone REALLY wants to play one.

[Raptor1313]

We'll cover the intrinsic worthlessness of Nurgle Heralds when we get to them.

 

I believe we'll also need to cover the Chariots and the Mounts, though should that be in the Herald section? It seems more relevant in the Heralds, since they're the ones that can take them.

 

EDIT: clarified it to be nurgle heralds

[Captain Malachi]

I've thought about it, and we'll do the mounts and chariots in the heralds entry, no sense in doing it here, noone else can take them.

[Captain Malachi]

Alright, here's the first section covering the undivided gifts.

 

Armoury:

The gifts available to the daemonic legions are varied and powerful, usually. In this section we’re going to give you quick overview of each gift, just so you know which ones we consider good and which ones we don’t.

 

Gifts of Chaos:

Boon of mutation:

Pass a toughness test or die and become a spawn for the daemon player, sounds good right? Well it has some drawbacks, for one thing it’s very short ranged, and most of the models you want to use it on have high toughness. It can be used in close combat though, so it has it’s uses. Generally though, you’ll want to leave this one alone in competitive games.

 

Breath of chaos:

Brutally effective against troops, but only minimally effective against vehicles, this can be very dangerous if used right. Effectively you kill any one wound model under the template on a 4+, provided it isn’t protected by an invulnerable save. It’s drawbacks come from it’s high price, short range and limited effectiveness against vehicles. We have many ways to kill men, not many to kill tanks, so think carefully with this one about whether it’s going to be worth it or not. The units who want this are the fast ones.

 

Iron hide:

3+ armour save. Pretty much a mandatory on most of the units who can take it. We like this one. Unfortunately though, it is expensive, though the models that can take it usually need it.

 

Daemonic flight:

Jump around the board and kill things. The only unit that can buy it is the daemon prince, and he pays for it. But, it is a very useful upgrade. It’s a good way to make killy things killier.

 

Daemonic gaze:

A simple, relatively decent, ranged attack. Not bad at killing a couple of men a turn, but it won’t do anything to battle tanks, might take out a transport though if you can get side shots. General rule, if you want to be in combat, leave this one at home, if you want to be at range, well then take it, however you’ll likely already have it.

 

Unholy might:

+1 strength. Pretty much a mandatory choice on most things, only units that don’t want to be in combat or that don’t use their strength to wound (Nurgle units and screamers mostly) should leave it.

 

Instrument of chaos:

Can throw a combat your way, but unfortunately our units should be crushing their enemies thoroughly, not drawing. Considered points filler by most, but if you have some points left over it can help occasionally.

It's a little long, but to be fair it has to be. I left out icons as I thought we might give them their own section, thoughts on that?

[Raptor1313]

Icons get their own little section. I think we've got a pretty good little discussion in on them, and it should be food for thought for folks. We've got a firm 'I like icons' camp and they've got reasons, and a firm 'Don't much care for the things' camp, also with reasons.

 

Could just stack at right after the undivided gifts.

[eyescrossed]

You're all doing a great job! :lol:

[Captain Malachi]

Right, next up, Khorne! Should have that done by this evening.

[Raptor1313]

Actually, we covered Khorne on page one.

 

I think it's safe to say that we've covered the armory. Chariots get covered in the herald section, since that's the only place it's relevant.

[Captain Malachi]

I meant that's what I'll work on writing up next.

[Captain Malachi]

Right, here's Khornes section.

 

Gifts of Khorne:

Blessing of the Blood God:

A 2+ save against psychic powers and force weapons for 5 points? Why would you ever not take this? As you may have guessed, we like this one. Pretty much a mandatory upgrade, unless you’re up against armies with no psykers.

 

Death strike:

A simple ranged attack, high AP and decent strength, but only one shot on generally low ballistic skill models, means this isn’t all that great. It also has a stupidly short range. Pure-Khorne armies can use this to give them some shooting, but otherwise it’s pretty rubbish.

 

Fury of Khorne:

Rending on power weapon armed units is pretty pointless, it can let you hurt vehicles, but generally the two/three attacks just won’t do it. Can be useful on flesh hounds, or in mono-Khorne where you have little else to bust vehicles, but generally it’s not worth it.

 

Hellblade:

A power weapon, comes as standard on most Khorne units, and by golly it’s good. This is why Khorne units are used more than others.

[Raptor1313]

Whoops. I blame grad school for the brain fartage.

 

I think the Khorne section looks pretty solid. Khorne's armory just doesn't lend itself to a lot of thought other than 'business end towards enemy'.

[Captain Malachi]

Yeah I agree, that had to be the easiest bit to write up so far. Anyway, I'll work on Tzeentch and hopefully have that up by tonight, but knowing me I'll get delayed and you'll all have to wait 'til tomorrow.

[Raptor1313]

No Biggie. At least the armory section is pretty much written up.

 

When you get it written up, PM it to me, Mal? I'll do some formatting and any grammar editing, though that won't be 'til next week, since this week is a shotgun to the forehead in terms of papers and tests (and then work joined in on the fun. Talk about a tag team that's not cool....)

[minigun762]

since this week is a shotgun to the forehead in terms of papers and tests (and then work joined in on the fun. Talk about a tag team that's not cool....)

 

Sounds like someone needs a weekend with the Daemonettes and a barrel of booze. <_<

[Raptor1313]

considering how much I talk against 'nettes, I'm not sure I want to be in their clutches for a weekend. I'm not sure I'd like where that goes, since hell hath no fury like woman scorned, and 'nettes come in numbers. :P:

 

Coherency is not part of this weekend's plan, though, I'll tell you that much. :D

[Captain Malachi]

Sounds like someone needs a weekend with the Daemonettes and a barrel of booze. :D

Hmm, crazy ladies with claws and a hangover to end all hangovers? Sounds good to me :P

[Captain Malachi]

Right, here's Tzeentch's section.

 

Gifts of Tzeentch:

Bolt of Tzeentch:

Our only real ranged anti-tank, this is a particularly important upgrade. It is fairly widely available, pretty much any Tzeentchian unit can take it, though it often costs a lot. The only place it’s not recommended is on flamers unless you have a specific plan in mind for it.

 

Master of sorcery:

Lets you shoot another weapon, note that you can’t fire the same one twice, so no bolting a tank twice in a row. Works best with we are legion as we don’t have a varied enough ranged arsenal to have any that really go well together.

 

Soul devourer:

Pretty much useless, it gives you a power weapon, but the lord of change and the daemon prince already ignore armour, and the herald will never be good in combat no matter what you do. The instant death is nice, but the things that need to be killed that quick often have a high leadership or eternal warrior, seriously limiting its effectiveness.

 

Warpfire:

Only horrors and flamers have this, it’s a simple ranged attack. Flamers can’t get enough shots to do much with it, and should be using their breath of chaos ability, but horrors can pump out enough shots to decimate infantry units with good rolls.

 

We are legion:

Shooting at more than one unit is very good, since it enables you to use bolt of tzeentch on a tank, and the use daemonic gaze or breath of chaos on an infantry unit. This gift often costs a lot, but more often than not it’s worth it. Works best with we are legion.

[minigun762]

looks perfect.

[Raptor1313]

Looks pretty good to me.

 

I'd mention that while you can take it on flamers, I'd take larger units of flamers. 3-man suicide flamers don't really need it, since they probably won't use it.