Enough with the power gaming!

[SquirrelKing]

I've been back to these forums for a few weeks now and I have noticed that most of the conversations/topics always turn to the power gaming aspect of the hobby. Now, I have nothing against it personally (I am a reformed min/maxer), but I found that power gaming is a great way to get out of the hobby.

 

There have been quite a few new players posting questions about units and such (like me) and the answers have been mostly given from the effeciency viewpoint. But new players that are starting out should also have an idea of what units are fun to play with: for fluff reasons, or because the model just looks cool.

 

So I was wondering if we can all just give an example of a unit that we just love playing with, be it because of conversion, fluff, battle experience, etc.

 

I would have to say that the most fun I have are with my bike squad. 7 man strong (I only have 7 bikes!), dual melta and champ with power sword. I love the imagery of bikes on the battlefield, even if it's unrealistic. Game-wise, I love the mobility and the versatility I can get from the unit: tank/heavy armored infantry hunting. Plus, twin-linked bolters help me with my biggest problem: I roll very poorly, so those re-rolls help a lot :lol:. I have a had some great games with them too (which helps!). I have played one game with them in 5th and I gave them the Mark of Slanesh for getting the jump on marine players (I play mostly against marines). They did not too bad. I hadn't noticed that they lost their extra attack from the previous codex... Ah well, next game we'll see how they perform with one less HTH attack. I can't wait to try them out again.

[Zhukov]

Hmm I think my Berzerkers and especially my precious Skull Champ with Powerfist! The things he kills is sometimes just unreal hehe (instakill Vulkan + beating 1 Termie next round, after that charging 2 Attack bikes and beating them too, only to die next turn horribly to a Meltagun!). Great fun, less if he sometimes dies to having to make a single save due to wound allocation. (so I like the sheir amount of killyness of such a small model and ralative inexpensive model)

 

I love using Obliterators too, starting with Lasscanons, going to plasmaguns/meltaguns and at last ending in an assault is quite fun sometimes too. (so I like the versatility and the effectiviness of this one)

 

Apart from that... I get my fun out of outplaying my oponent :lol:

[eyescrossed]

Fun? What is fun? :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joking :P

In all seriousness, I field a unit of 5 Nurgle Terminators (soon to be bolstered to 7 for fluff reasons) and a Nurgle Termie Lord, Deep Strike them in and have them annihilate a large part of the opponent's army most of the time, even when people have told me to either go Termies in a LR or Termicide (I'm looking at you jeske :P ). They're fun, and they follow my army's fluff. I love 'em.

[VonMerrick]

I'm also revamping my Iron Warriors. I last set them up after reading their Index Astartes articles years ago. In those days the iron warriors were the only Traitor Legion to have access to the Vindicator and a basilisk.

 

As a result, my current list used 2 Vindicators and in friendly games I am still allowed to use my Basilisk in non-Apocalypse games. I know there are more effective options out there then Terminator and "pie plate" heavy Iron Warriors list which as a result are lower on troop choices. I just feel thats how the army would fight, regardless of whats more effective. So for me, its Vindicators ,Terminators.(The reaper looks so cool on a Termie, but in game it leaves a lot to de desired), and my favorite is the converted basilisk.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love winning and want all my armies to be competitive and have a chance. Nothing is worse than losing the game before you start. However myself and my friends use the matra "You chose the army, the army chooses the list." Having themes and a fluffy display case worthy army is more important than winning every game. I'm not a fan of powergaming, but have nothing against people who do it and respect them as opponents. Its a legitimate and legal style of play just as I expect them to respect my lists for being more story oriented. I think this goes back to the fact that my group are avid fans of the black library books and I have a second college degree in literature so I love to write. Each tabletop battle gets built up with a one to two page blurb prior to the games, and we always link our battles into mini campaigns. Battles without fluff behind them don't interest me at all.

[the jeske]

and the noob picks an army with models he likes the look of and he sadlly doesnt pick eldar as his starter army. and he loses a game , then another , then another , then goes to the forums and finds out that it would have been better to builds a list first, ask around and then buy stuff . but he is in for the fun and fluff. three months later after more games lost he starts to look at the new prices and how a BL list would have done better[+he finds out that GW tells him there is no fluff anymore as models goes , everything can be made "counts as"] . another few months later he ebays his army after having tons of fun with having his ass handed down to him.

 

this is not the 4th ed codex . there is no middle tier list like we had before .We have one playable builds with 2 lists , 2 fring list that if someone wants to play good are hard to master and random and thats all. With the advent of power builds in sm dex [you dont have builds anymore, you have special characters that force the build on your list] trying to play an army with random models is a quick way to change army or stop playing fast .

[SquirrelKing]

Jeske, as much as I value your opinions, as much as I pity you for the group of people you seem to play with.

 

I don't think I have ever read a more cynical view of something called a "game/hobby". I started just as you described. During 2nd ed, my friend was playing Space Wolves/Eldar. I tried out a few games, got to play both races and finally decided that I liked the play style, plus the models, of Marines. When I got to the store, I saw Chaos Marines and fell in love. So I decided right then and there to play Chaos.

 

So yeah, there was a learning process. I had my butt handed to me so many times it wasn't funny anymore. Plus I roll like crap, so I sometimes got discouraged. But at least I had models I loved, moded the way I wanted. I had put my personality into them and gotten attached to them in ways simply winning a game would've never done. I play with the same group of friends that I started out with. We play for fun, and winning is nothing but bragging rights while we have the post game cigarette.

 

I haved played in some local tournements and the experience was ok I guess. I love making army lists, and as I've said, I can min/max with the best of them, but playing to win was not something that made me happy with the hobby. This is the main reason why I stopped playing M:TG as well: it was all power-combo-this and first-turn-burn-that.

 

If the model(s) you love is not doing anything in games and is limiting your fun factor... well then do something else with it that you might enjoy more. "Counts as" is great for this. Here is what I did with a unit/model that I love but that I dislike the rules for: the chaos dread's rules suck for me, so I use it as a deamon prince. I use the stat line and psychic powers to simulate guns and a big-ass robot. So no, it's not a vehicule per se, but at least I'm having fun with it (plus the new DP is cool).

 

Also, my group is just awesome. We are always encouraging each other and and we try to make every game the most fun that we can (even rewinding mistakes and such in-game). Sure we have tense moments and more competitive games, but the norm is pretty laid back. I stopped playing because all of them moved away and games became a rarity. Now we have schedules that permit a bit more travel so we're trying to make a few games per year happen.

 

If the way you have fun is by powergaming, great. If you get all you need out of this game/hobby by crushing your opponenets and being the most effective army builder, even better. But you do realise that's not all there is to the hobby right? Not trying to be condescending, but some people just like to model and paint and couldn't care less about "points and stuff".

 

So, what model do you enjoy playing with the most and why? :lol:

[JamesI]

My homemade Tzeentch Sorceror on Disk. Lots of fun and kills a lot of stuff before he dies. Usually hangs out with Raptors.

 

Not really a tournament unit, but fun.

[Important]

I use possessed. Alot of people well to be honest everyone says they are worthless these days. I have proven many wrong with charging a unit and they realise how many attacks I dish out and also they can have a fun bonus! Sure they cost alot of points and can end up with scout wich I have no use for since I put them in a rhino. But it's all compensated for how awesome the models are!

 

I love winning but not as much as a fair and even game. I can loose it aslong it was fun and not a slaughter. This is also why I don't go to big tournaments.

[Joshta]

My fav unit is Vindicators... and all tanks.... but vindicators take the cake for me. U can pop anything with a vindicator! I like demonic possession, and the look on my opponents face after scoring a shaken or a stunned on a vindicator, when i tell him i have DP, a little peice of them dies inside.

 

BTW i am know for almost never scattering!

 

LC LR terminators are pretty dope as well, nothing like eating space marines!

[daemon*hunter]

my faves are:

'Zerkers - Who doesn't love a bunny eared madman squashig marines, and popping tanks with an oversized carrot?

Daemon Princess: Sexy ;) (not got mine yet tho :()

Termies - Khorne - killy goodness

Termies - slaanesh - in the words of Iron Maiden "Be quick or be dead" (not so true for Termies :rolleyes:)

Termies - Tzeentch - They don't die!

Termies - Nurgle - ditto

Termie Lords - Mmm... Termie goodness

[lord gunthar]

i agree with joshta vindis with demonic possesion rock !!! (especialy wen use 3 for a mere 420 pts ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rahveel]

I have a blast playing a Fabious Bile army, with possesed or dread support, backed up by spawn. built the army to show people that some of the units that people claim suck can be quite effective (i was partilly right, it has won about half its games). the army is a blast to play with though, So much so that I am ordering the bits to make it in true-scale!

[Crusader169]

My favourite CSM/SM fluff unit is the Dreadnought. . theres just somthing i find cool about sticking a "dead warrior" guy in a robot to keep fighting :tu: no rest for the wicked

 

\

[Lord Humongous]

Honestly, I kind of agree with Jeske. If your list doesn't work, its not any fun after a while.

 

I still giggle a bit after using my lash prince and a unit of 3 oblits last week. Inflicting 17 plasma cannon wounds on a unit of 10 models that are not (any longer) in cover is simply insane.

But I also like my new land raider, which people say isn't very competitive.

[SquirrelKing]

Honestly, I kind of agree with Jeske. If your list doesn't work, its not any fun after a while.

 

You are right, and I guess the trick is to follow what you want to get out of the game, in the manner that you want. But you did use the word "fun", which is key.

 

I know it helps if I win, but winning is not my goal. Having fun is.

 

But experience helps in making lists, and sometimes you find units that just don't work for you (dreads for me) even if you like the model. Wow, it's late, and I'm rambling...

 

Another unit I have that I love is a VDR skimmer I made: twin-linked autocannons, twin-linked heavey bolter, twin-linked bolter. 142 points of flying coolness. It has never made much of an impact in games, but man do I love setting it on the table. <_< I think I had posted a picture of my old Fallen army in the army showcase sticky... if it's still there, you can see a (small) pic of it. **edit** don't think it exists anymore... ;)

[Artangel]

and the noob picks an army with models he likes the look of and he sadlly doesnt pick eldar as his starter army. and he loses a game , then another , then another , then goes to the forums and finds out that it would have been better to builds a list first, ask around and then buy stuff . but he is in for the fun and fluff. three months later after more games lost he starts to look at the new prices and how a BL list would have done better[+he finds out that GW tells him there is no fluff anymore as models goes , everything can be made "counts as"] . another few months later he ebays his army after having tons of fun with having his ass handed down to him.

 

this is not the 4th ed codex . there is no middle tier list like we had before .We have one playable builds with 2 lists , 2 fring list that if someone wants to play good are hard to master and random and thats all. With the advent of power builds in sm dex [you dont have builds anymore, you have special characters that force the build on your list] trying to play an army with random models is a quick way to change army or stop playing fast .

 

What total rubbish!!! if you can only play with 2 lists and be competitive I would blame your tactics/playstyle. I have around 15000 points of Chaos to pick and Choose from and have several army choices including a Pure Zerker, pure Death Gaurd and a pure Tzeench List. I also have several complete mix match lists including Slanesh Lords leading Zerkers and Plague Marines just to annoy the fluff purists:).

 

I have also been known to run 3 defilers, a total CSM lead by Fabius Bile and his super Marines, 3 vindis, 9 Oblits, 2 Deamon princes and a greater Deamon and countless other random armies/ideas all to great results at both my Club and Tournaments. I have allways found the secret of success is to never be predictable I beat some of my best friends on a regular basis because they allways field the exact same thing every time.

 

I geuss 20 years of playing 40K has given me a diffrent view on the game than some others

[Seahawk]

I agree with Artangel. But that's not the OP.

 

I absolutely love my defiler. Converted like from WD 282, a lot of love and fun went into building and painting it. It typically performs well, and sometimes doesn't. But it always is doing something. Like my terminators (that travel in packs of 10, typically), it makes things fun.

[Silent Shadow]

My view, ever since I started out, was to play for fun. Yes I lost my beginner games, but that just compelled me to design better lists and try different tactics. To me that helps to make the game more fun and satisfactory, it's a great feeling designing your own unique list, learning how to use it and then winning games with it. It's pointless just copying a list off the internet and then thinking 'how do I use this army?' in the middle of a game, it also helps you to become a better player, you accept losses, you learn from your mistakes and you try again. I believe everyone should have a 'fun' game every now and again.

 

Plus most of my opponents I play at my local aren't power gamers in the slightest, and the ones that are, are friendly and people you can have a laugh with so whatever happens in between the start and my eventual loss, I alwaya have a good game. :pinch:

 

Anyway, in regards to my favourite unit, I've always had a soft spot for a greater summoned daemon. At XXX points with Str and T of 6 with 5 attacks, it's a bargain. Yes he may turn up late/early, but he always proves to be a distraction for the rest of my army and he's cheap enough so you're not bothered if everything doesn't go to plan in regards with it. :woot:

[Dawkins]

I think the people I play with and the time spent away from work and my kids are what is fun for me about any hobby. Back in the days of herohammer I cared allot more about winning than I did having fun. The result was I got so burned out I missed third and fouth edition. I am back with a new play group and learning that game all over again. My IW's don't get the best units when I leave the marked units at home but I like an armour heavy army that I tend to play.

Lots of CSM's in rhino's and LR's.

[shadowman-x]

I just love Khârn.

There's nothing quite as satisfying as Khârn and one surviving skull champion mowing through a squad of 30 boyz and 10 nobz

[walpurgisnacht]

My guilty pleasure has always been retinues for IC's.

It happened after my Iron Warriors were destroyed by DE HQ with buddies. My poor little lonely lord...

After that, every list had moderately tooled entourage to follow the boss.

It became an obsession when I had max limit Terminators to fill my list with them and teleport in.

It was fun!!!Not cost effective in the slightest as the next nearest unit( the nearest either dead/destroyed/fleeing ) would just open the flood gates of hate and Congratulations! I now have target priority #1! Tell him what he's won, Biff! The Beatstick.

[Sons of Horus]

all Daemon Princes are sexy!! :P

 

termies are also cool especially Tzeentch termies since they rarely die ;)

 

for troops everyone loves zerkers :)

[Vertebrae]

I just played a 1000 point game against the new IG and I used a *gasp* Defiler!

 

Many people think that Defilers are to weak to be any real threat in games, but not only did he live to the end of the game, he was one of the reasons I WON! I love the model and I'm planning on taking 3 for tourny in a few weeks.

[eyescrossed]

I just played a 1000 point game against the new IG and I used a *gasp* Defiler!

 

Many people think that Defilers are to weak to be any real threat in games, but not only did he live to the end of the game, he was one of the reasons I WON! I love the model and I'm planning on taking 3 for tourny in a few weeks.

I too love Defilers. I normally run mine with 4 CCWs and the Battle Cannon. Great in combat, and can lob shells at the enemy.

[Vertebrae]

I just played a 1000 point game against the new IG and I used a *gasp* Defiler!

 

Many people think that Defilers are to weak to be any real threat in games, but not only did he live to the end of the game, he was one of the reasons I WON! I love the model and I'm planning on taking 3 for tourny in a few weeks.

I too love Defilers. I normally run mine with 4 CCWs and the Battle Cannon. Great in combat, and can lob shells at the enemy.

 

That's the only way to run them ^_^ . I really think that they are under-rated. Battle cannon + assault monster? Sounds like fun.