Enough with the power gaming!

[SquirrelKing]

I agree with Jeske and Zhukov here: there is no need to that far. But I'm not sure how serious that reply really is anyways :)

 

Like every extreme opinion, it tends to get people rattled, which I also think was the point! Powergaming is a valid form of playing the game, I just wanted to read something different and maybe a bit more fun (for me anyways).

 

BTW Jeske, you still haven't answered: what unit do you have the most fun with? ;)

[Corpse.]

Yeah, chaplains with rerolling attacks can be sweet, but thats in the same straits as having a lash sorcerer hanging with them getting them first turn charges (and in some cases, without being shot at). Extra attacks vs rerolls, interesting. So just for fair comparison, 30, 15 hit, 15 reroll for 22.5 hits and with 40 attacks 20 hits, sounds fun, and near equal, but your right on one being scoring. Though for scoring troops without DP's, GD's, and all the other nasty melee that is chaos I think Blood Angels got a little shafted, even with their cool death company. (I still say those guys should have been optional!)

 

Raptors have a unique edge in the codex. First turn charge and all, gives time for zerks to get close and do their thing. Others can do so too, but for first turn charges not relying on infiltration or HQ's with wings/bikes, raptors do get that bulk in there when the situation is good for it. (They arent all in transports/not close/in dawn of war, etc)

 

Gotta love the raptors. Even their name sounds cool as hell.. "Oh I see your striking scorpions, warp spiders and swooping hawks, come face my Raptors".

[40kChrista]

For me, my fav unit so far is the Greater Demon. The whole idea of this thing ripping out of some poor, but blessed, Chaos Marine is just too cool.

It's just a trade off for the Champion, I go from from one close combat monster to a REAL close combat monster!!

Plus I had a blast converting it for my Word Bearers force.

 

For me that is where the game is best, the models... especially now. I started playing 40k

back in second edition, virus grenades anyone?, my first model box set was one of the first Space Marine sets... the plastic was white/cream!!

The detail of the models is just staggering these days, and love converting/kit bashing to make my Word Bearers as unique looking as

possible.

 

-edited for spelling, sorry!!-

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

And now, to not be completely off-topic, let me tell you of my chaos marine army in 2nd edition....well, no. But seriously, the units I really enjoyed most back then - when there were no defilers around yet, which I would probably love nowadays, if I still had my chaos marines - were the daemons, because of the whacky way you had to summon them to the battlefield with summoning points earned in different ways for each god. That could be really complicated when using daemons from several different gods.

 

But the coolest was definitely Khorne: if you had a Bloodthirster and one squad each of hounds and letters, you needed around 30 summoning points to get them all down. And you got one point for each hit in CC, 2 for each hit in CC by a model with the mark of Khorne.

While I could have summoned them piece by piece, I loved getting my understrength (points-wise, because half the points were in daemons) berzerkers into CC, have them be almost wiped out, then at the last moment summon an army of daemons led by a bloodthirster and just clear the enemy off the board.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

BTW Jeske, you still haven't answered: what unit do you have the most fun with? :tu:

Many years ago when i had a (very) small Night Lord hoarde (bikes, CSM squads and a single Termie that i used as a Lord), I remember taking it to a friends for a game. He collected blood angels and didn't wanna use one of his assault marine units for that game so we put a bobble of blue tack on their heads and he let me use them as Raptors for more fluff. it was fun and i can't remember the result if i'm honest. That's the point of this thread. What unit did you enjoy playing with. That was the only time I ever used raptors but I really enjoyed it. They were fun. I think i only had about 3 or 4 left at the end of the game out of 10 but it was more about keeping it fun.

 

I also played Orks and wanted to play a minimum of 2000 pts every time. I always played to win with the Orks, I was a lot younger and super competitive and to be honest, I don't know if it was how much i hated losing with them (50/50 success rate) or the fact that I ended up loathing painting green, but I soon lost interest in the Orks and the were either sold, pulled apart for my bits box or they lie at the bottom of a rubbish tip somewhere. I loved my "aquired" Basilisk and my Goff biker squad, but neither mean as much to me as "fun" models than my Land Raider which has been done up as Abaddon and retinue's transport.

 

Jeske, please, one day, just put together a collection of units that look at fluff and try it. It can be fun. It's not always about the winning.

 

CLS

[Senseilord Ashahara]

Hmmmmmmmm

 

Alpha Legion player here too, Squrriel King. I miss my Legion rules.

If only our varient lists had been in little special books then we could get away with using them like the obsolete loyalist ones.

Still, I get away with using my Lost And Damned traitor guard/ Alpha Legion force at the GW and that is good clean fun.

Nothing delights your freinds and wows the ladies like rapid firing 30 mutants with fire arms.

[Night Stalker]

Yeah, chaplains with rerolling attacks can be sweet, but thats in the same straits as having a lash sorcerer hanging with them getting them first turn charges (and in some cases, without being shot at). Extra attacks vs rerolls, interesting. So just for fair comparison, 30, 15 hit, 15 reroll for 22.5 hits and with 40 attacks 20 hits, sounds fun, and near equal, but your right on one being scoring. Though for scoring troops without DP's, GD's, and all the other nasty melee that is chaos I think Blood Angels got a little shafted, even with their cool death company. (I still say those guys should have been optional!)

 

Extra attacks vs re-rolling is one thing. And Blood Angels Veteran Assault Squad (the non-scoring choice) have 2 base attacks. Also, Blood Angels are not as bad, good player can be in top 5 using this codex.

 

Raptors have a unique edge in the codex. First turn charge and all, gives time for zerks to get close and do their thing. Others can do so too, but for first turn charges not relying on infiltration or HQ's with wings/bikes, raptors do get that bulk in there when the situation is good for it. (They arent all in transports/not close/in dawn of war, etc)

 

Gotta love the raptors. Even their name sounds cool as hell.. "Oh I see your striking scorpions, warp spiders and swooping hawks, come face my Raptors".

Forgive me, but relying on Lash is relying on HQ with wings :rolleyes:

 

And sure, they are cool to use, but still it does not change at all that they are overpriced by about 2 points each. I don't mind playing uphill battles, but i know it.

 

Hell, i used to pay 30 or more points for raptors!

[SquirrelKing]

Hell, i used to pay 30 or more points for raptors!

 

 

I miss my three melta infiltrating raptor squad :mellow:

 

Why did they have to take the Raptors' special rules out? I can live with one less special weapon, but losing d.visage AND hit and run? too much IMO. Now they're no better than loyalists...

[Night Stalker]

Hell, i used to pay 30 or more points for raptors!

 

 

I miss my three melta infiltrating raptor squad :lol:

 

Why did they have to take the Raptors' special rules out? I can live with one less special weapon, but losing d.visage AND hit and run? too much IMO. Now they're no better than loyalists...

 

Not only no better (tbh, worse), but also more expensive (Loyalists pay 190 for 10 WITH Sarge AND ATSKNF AND Combat Tactics AND Combat Squads)

[the jeske]

BTW Jeske, you still haven't answered: what unit do you have the most fun with?

i dont play with units , I play with army builds . when someone builds a list to use a single units [or same units spamed] offten the list is bland or doesnt work or both at the same time .

in the 4th i liked playing with my AL because it was a hard army to use , easy to screw over and requiered skills to play , unlike some builds [khorn BL or IW] . Rigth now I play a NM water list , but I dont think I really like them . They are just less boring then the classic csm builds we have right now[and less played . I hate mirror matches].

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

See, no context of fun in the hobby... I feel for you.

[Zhukov]

Well to be honest I dont have really 'fun' like most of you would call it either in the playing with units. For me its more the challenge and tactical aspect which I like. I look upon it more as some kind of sport. I do like the collecting and assembling part and to a lesser part painting too though. And I like the meta gaming part too, to look at forums etc.

 

Once you are used to winning and using optimised lists its quite hard to take a step backwards, at least for me that is. I dont like the idea of playing with builds which are much less effective and then losing. Then me and my oponent dont know if I lost because of his skill or that my list sucked. But I dont see the problem actually, if both you and your oponent play with a competative list then everything works fine no? So whats a friendly list actually? Why bother with both coming with a weak list, while you can come both with a working list and practice for tourneys too!

 

I cannot imagine playing with stories or something like that. Thats just.... well nothing for me. But I respect people who like to imagine that their models have some kind of personality or whatever you wanna do with it. I have nothing do with fluff its as simple as that.

 

But now my chaos is finished I am looking towards a 2nd army and maybe I will give reading fluff and building some kind of fluffy army a go. We'll see.

[the jeske]

See, no context of fun in the hobby... I feel for you.

 

 

well its not a hobby its a game . just like Z said I like to game . play against tough opponents and tough players . Build new lists with interesting aspects of game play.... now 99% of that in the 5th ed with codex sm and csm was killed . there is few if builds most of them have same game play , there is no tactics . No w40k is no as much"fun" for me as it was in teh 4th . A lot of people here thought the same and from maybe 300 players attanding tournmants every week we droped to around 100 maybe less . Most people moved to warmachine/horde or just plain quit playing.

 

ah just to make it more understandable for non tournamant people . Yes I am playing to win , but I hate to win[or lose] because of scenarios or army set up . And I dont mean the actuall win condition , but something like playing against 1750 necron for kill points [or same with nids]. bad match ups are ok [like khan has with nob biker builds] , but having low win and higher auto lose match up ratio sucks and with fewer armies to play this happens a lot more offten [well at least durning the testing or when you play someone who took a break from the game ]

 

Aside for games I always liked to convert stuff [hate painting but I have my wife for that] , but right now conversions either requier me to have the same units in the GW legal size [i cant make my own tanks or resculpt my own csm as anyone at any time can tell me to replace the model with a GW legal one ] . + GW killed WYSIWYG and gave people the counts as rule . Normally I dont care how an army looks like , but after the third time I played against a khan army using bretonian knights as bikes [or rather headless horses] I did take a break from playing for two weeks to cool off a bit .

[Corpse.]

Ouch Jeske, headless bret horsemen? Who cares about collecting daemons and using magnetised bases when you can buy brets and play both games... Heh, sounds chaotic there. Maybe I could jump up there some day and bash a bit with my Nurgle resup army. Bought low cost models, cheaply redone as nurgle marines, all classic, and 20 bucks gets me 50 marines or more in bits.

 

Ive even done a GW-Sprue army at one point, just to practice carving.... Sold the thing though, you could do the same if you get P.O. enough! (I just ask all my buddies if I could take the sprues they usually throw away, be amazed what you can build with it~)

[Zhukov]

but after the third time I played against a khan army using bretonian knights as bikes [or rather headless horses] I did take a break from playing for two weeks to cool off a bit .

 

Haha thats so funny and awefull at the same time

[Griffin]

Generally I'm a fluff player - so all my armies adhere closely to the fluff as close as possible to still be semi competitive. Hower sometimes it's fun to go balls to the wall and take a Landraider + Abaddon + Termi Retinue with all the trimmings and just gun for the biggest nastiest enemy unit and kill it. Or take max Termies, Raptors, oblits etc and just deepstrike units like leaves falling in the wind. Other times 5 man units + Rhino's and just rhinoing all over the place.

[the jeske]

but after the third time I played against a khan army using bretonian knights as bikes [or rather headless horses] I did take a break from playing for two weeks to cool off a bit .

 

Haha thats so funny and awefull at the same time

 

 

you know whats the worse thing about it . that you play and dont really care [you already have army/armies] and next to you stands a noob or worse a noob with his parent and asks why does he have to buy all those costlly marines when he could just as well buy square bases for his dwarfs..... then the real fun starts :)

[Griffin]

That's truely terrible - I seriously feel for you guys.

 

I mean fugly unpainted models on a board vs each other isn't really that much fun is it ? Isn't it much nicer to play with nicely painted models (both armies) against each other on cool terraine, watching a story unfold ?

[VonMerrick]

Our group treats 40k as a hobby primarily. When we got into it many years ago, we became collecting and painting armies first. That was our primary focus. Once our armies were painted and based, we built full tables with different terrain. Once all this was done we played games against each other.

 

Even after these years, we don't play a game until the army/unit is fully painted, I have a office/gameroom in the house where my blasted urban terrain table is being worked on and models are displayed in glass display cabinets. My group of friends gets together to have a beer and paint our models or build them mostly. So far this year we've played 3-4 games and we're happy with that. I'm not playing again until I get 1500 point of Iron Warriors painted and based which at my speed (due to work and other hobbies) will be about 2 months. Then I'll go back to playing games at a store or with friends until the new SW dex is ready. Then I'll go back to build/paint mode and emerge in a few months again.

 

For most people I know, its a model/terrain building and painting hobby. Thats why we don't like other games which involve pre-painted minis. Its no fun to just sit down and play with "counts-as" or minis painted by someone else. Maybe because we were scale model builders first before 40k.

We get ultra competitive for things like Hockey, baseball and other sports. Its just 40k for us was viewed as a more artistic hobby. My wife does painting and other crafts so I use her as a sounding board for my little art projects. I get more satisfaction out of a well highlighted mini that took me a week and I went "all out" on, than I ever have over winning a game.

 

For us the games are a chance to be cinematic and act out classic fluff scenes or battles from our favorite black library stories.

[the jeske]

As a gamer I look at painting like this . I will never ever be able to paint as good as my wife does [both the speed and the quality] and If I cant do master class lvl then why do it at all , I will only make the units look ugly [and thats a bummer as some conversions take a lot of time to do] . So in the end most models in my collection that is not for sale or painted by my wife [and this most often comes hand in hand] has the 5 colors on it and thats it .

 

 

also as cinematic goes , since the 2ed W40k is not very cinematic at all , just like WFB. there is no interaction with terrain , no overwatch your army is practiclly standing there the whole opponents turn and doing nothing[ok so they roll saves ] . I more like the warmachine turns where you always have something to do on both turns . Techniclly one can try to do cool stuff , like charging one HQ with another one , but 99% of the time its a bad idea [either to charge or to put your HQ in a place where it can get charge by something that can kill it]. So again why do that ? To nerf your own army , to show less skills durning the game ? thats like disrespecting your opponent , saying "am so good , that I can win even when I make stupid actions" . Thats almost as insulting as showing up for a game with sub par list [and we pay for tables by the hour, so if I stomp him in 10 min or 1 hour I still pay the same] .

[VonMerrick]

Thats another thing I've noticed. I've never paid for a table to play on ever. The shops I play at fully furnish their tables and let the patrons play on them for free.

Also, I am not as good as a professional painter by any means, but I still enjoy the learning process. I am better now that I was 10 years ago, and that is what makes me happy and proud. My models are getting better and I can see the progress even if people I don't know can't.

 

You can never grow at anything if you don't practice/attempt. I can't imagine not trying something just beacuse I'm not a master at it. I enjy the learning process and growing from my mistakes. Life is more fun that way. I would be really sad if I was great and masterfull at everything I attempted. Life then would be boring.

 

I "bother" to better my myself. Whether it be finally learning to highlight an eye correctly, or take better photograph, or learn another language.

I don't need to compete with others as much as I enjoy challenging myself to grow and expand my abilities. I'll never be a master mini painter, an NHL player, or a pro photgraher but I enjoy the personal growth.

[Zhukov]

Very interesting to read all those different insights on the hobby.

 

I focused purely on gaming myself at first. Painting and converting with the speed of a turboboosting jetbike. Resulting in an bad looking army. However I do get all the painting/converting/wysiwyg points etc which I need to win tourneys, and I acomplished it in quite a short time.

 

Do I regret this? Hmm well yes and no. The minis are indeed a bit ruined so thats a pitty. But on the other side I did only choose Chaos because I like playing with it from a gaming points of perspective. The fact that I can win against any oponent while I have years and years less experience makes up for it. I dont like the models of chaos anyway so I dont want to invest much time it. (the only models I own and like are berzerkers, and yes they are quite ugly too if I compare them with Sworth Brethren).

 

However now I'm a bit longer in the hobby, I'm beginning to like the painting too. I now would very much like to work on having a well painted and assembled army (or at least a part) at some time. So I am now probably going for Black Templars, just because I like the models and paint scheme. Dont know if it will be as fun as playing with optimised lists, but maybe the fact that I play with a 'beautifull' army at some poitns can make things up. Time will tell. If not then I use my them purely for... well having a good painted army and my chaos purely for gaming like now.

 

Maybe I will post a picture of my finished chaos army, just for a few laughs for you guys :P

[Zeller]

Huge terminator squads. Lots of guns, lots of power weapons, huge squads make for intimidation, point-click-death user interface. They're fun. Something...or some squads always die when they join the fight.

[Just As Planned]

My favorite unit is my 5 man squad of Tzeentch Chosen. 5 guys all with meltaguns and an icon of tzeentch, converted from Dark Angels veterens for awesome robeyness.

[Preysight]

For the hell of it, I used 5 normal Chaos Marines as a unit of Possessed, just to see how much they sucked.

 

I enjoyed them so much that after the third time, I've decided to make a proper unit of them. Minor conversions from standard Marines, I reckon - I'm not a huge fan of the current Possessed models.