Death Heads V5.0

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

:tu:

^_^

You took out the Marine? But he looked so damn... good! :lol:

 

Sorry I don't have anything more constructive than this, it's midnight and I'm juuuust about to go to bed. That said, at a glance it looks fairly complete, if a little bit... compact.

 

Anyway, good work KHK! ;)

[Donkey Kong]

I wouldn't have touched Dazzo's work had it stayed put. He deleted it from his images, it didn't show up and so I had to remove it :'( . Guilty conscience is guilty.

 

How do you mean compact, and where would you suggest expanding?

[Donkey Kong]

I know it's almost ridiculous at this point, but is there anything that anyone sees has a hole, anything you think need expanding or just any suggestions? Thanks,

 

KHK

[Ferrus Manus]

I've put the changes in bold, just to save time.

 

The Chapter marks their upper echelons with one of sixteen golden kraken helms.

Artistry remains a treasured talent on the world,with craftsmen regularly erecting new structures and statues to replace the old.

During the Horus Heresy, Klysium hosted one of the greatest battles not involving the Legionnes Astartes.

When the Death Heads set out in search of a recruiting base, one of their first discoveries was Klysium, a world in conflict with the Arch Enemy of Mankind

leading the Chapter to feel the same about their Librarians and other Chapters with similar heraldry.

Considering Gehenna, this makes me smile.

 

In general it is good, there is just the occasional sentence that could be linked with the previous with use of a ';' instead of starting a new sentence. Just to help the article flow better. Otherwise it is good.

[Donkey Kong]

Edits made, thanks FM!

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

When I said compact I simply meant it isn't quite as padded out as some other IA's are. Some include more words per sentence or simply to add length to the article. Just because you have a more concise article doesn't mean it's a bad thing at all so don't think it was a criticism.

 

It's more the overall look and structure of the piece I was commenting on though, I think taking out the picture of the marine has adversely affected the article as it changes the aforementioned look and structure just through it's presence. The same can be said of images of chapters homeworlds and other artwork. You don't need it by any stretch of the imagination but I do think it makes a nicely rounded article to include one or two images like that.

 

You should PM Dazzo to see if he still has the image.

 

Then again, that is my two-cents so if you prefer it without or don't see it as that much of an issue then it's up to you, obviously.

 

It's a good chapter KHK and props for working on it hard enough to get it this far, not to mention I doubt it's going to be rejected from the Librarium.

[Donkey Kong]

Well, I sent a PM to Dazzo and I added a little bit about the Chapter's story telling in the Chapter Cult.

 

I'll be adding the Death Heads to the Librarium soon.

 

Before this, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the Death Heads from beginning to end,

 

GHY, you're at the top of the list.

 

Thank you all,

 

KHK

[Octavulg]

Death Heads

 

The name feels like it should be Death's Heads. Not that that necessarily works better...

 

What's a Death Head, anyway? A Space Wolf is pretty clear, as is a Blood Angel, but a Death Head? Do their heads produce Death? Are they the heads of Death (either in the sense of a leader or the sense of a cranium)? It pushes a littler farther into strange and odd than Space Marine names really should. The explanation later is a good one, but it might not be a bad idea to change either Death or Heads. I think it's the Heads bit that's really the problem, but I'm not sure. Just feels odd.

 

I'm tempted to suggest the Fear Faces, but that's just silly. ;)

 

"We shall never die!"

 

Bet you a dollar?

 

Both at odds with the relentless fatalism of the true soldier of the Emperor, and patently untrue.

 

Composed during the Ninth Founding, the Death Heads have famed themselves for their ferocity.

 

You can't fame yourself.

 

Furthermore, it makes it sound like they're all self-aggrandizing. Nobody likes a self-aggrandizmenter.

 

Sworn guardians of the Maelstrom, the Death Heads have earned their reputation amongst the traitor Astartes and Ork Warlords that threaten the Imperium.

 

What kind of reputation is that? You didn't actually say. It can be assumed, but...

 

The Chapter marks their upper echelons with one of sixteen golden kraken helms.

 

Look. I read the entire Circle of Zerthimon, and illithids are still only a little creepy. Opening with your squid-helmets is not a winning formula. The squid is a not a noble and majestic creature, feared by all. Honest. Golden squid least of all.

 

Golden-brown squid...mmm...

 

I wanna make a Planescape chapter now. And I'm hungry. Damn.

 

These helmets have been passed down since their discovery on the Chapter's home world, and there is no greater glory than earning the right to adorn one.

 

Being admitted to the prescence of the Emperor should be, off the top of my head. Furthermore, the statement implies that this is the greatest glory in the Imperium - which it isn't.

 

Furthermore, adorning one would be decorating it. Wearing one, on the other hand...

 

Should a bearer fall in battle, no effort is spared to reclaim this treasured relic.

 

Not sure bearer is the right term, though I can't think of a good replacement. This is not an appropriate term - and you're playing fast and loose with tenses generally, here.

 

"Should one of the bearers fall in battle, no effort will be spared to reclaim the treasured relic."

 

The Death Heads first Chapter Master was the Silver Skull Stannum Denarious.

 

Did you intentionally name him after Roman currency?

 

Denarious believed in the virtues of surprise and fear tactics.

 

Traditional term is terror tactics. You really should dress this up so it sounds a little more impressive - right now it sounds kind of like you're very impressed by the idea, but have little actual understanding of what they are.

 

To amplify this and to pay homage to the Silver Skulls, Denarious ordered every marine to print a skull on the faceplate of their helmet, a tradition that the Chapter continues to honor. Since Denarious' time, the skulls have changed becoming more bestial and alien in nature. Some mock the xeno enemies of the Emperor with oblong and fanged skulls while others imitate more feral beasts that inhabit the Imperium. The Death Heads drew their name from this mark upon their founding, and only full battle brothers are permitted to display it.

 

Neat. Should mention sooner. Also bears a bit of resemblance to the Night Lords - confess, traitors! Confess!

 

I'd mention this in one of those "opening chapter blurbs" that are found in italics at the start of articles. More briefly, obviously.

 

Klysium rests on the border of the Maelstrom, standing as a barrier against the forces of Chaos and the Ork empires that threaten to overrun the Imperium.

 

You really have to stop changing Latin terms by one letter. Really.

 

When the Death Heads set out in search of a recruiting base, one of their first discoveries was Klysium, a world in conflict with the Arch Enemy of Mankind. A sizable force had made landfall, and once more, Klysium was in flames. What struck Chapter Master Denarious the most, however, was the strength of body and mind of the Klysian warriors. They fought with everything they could muster, never retreating, never surrendering. The old Death Head respected their courage, and with the might of the Chapter, they exterminated the filth from the world. Following this, Denarious took Klysium as the Chapter's homeworld.

 

Holy overly abrupt segue, Batman! Perhaps a little transition for the twenty thousand years of history that just went by?

 

On the battlefield, the Death Heads number amongst the most barbarous Chapters in the Imperium. The Chapter's first specialty, striking fear in of the enemy, remains a valued tactic. Neophytes are trusted with assassinating enemy leaders and devastating enemy morale. Full assaults are often spearheaded by newly inducted assault marines and veterans. These brutal warriors tear directly into the enemy, opening the way for larger landings of armored vehicles and more Astartes. The Death Heads favor light and swift attacks followed by armored advances.

 

Truly, the most feared weapons of the Gaulish barbarians were their tanks.

 

Poor choice of terms there, wot?

 

Unlike a majority of Roboute Gulliman's kin, the Death Heads deviate from the Codex Astartes in their organization. The Chapter maintains ten companies, though eleven are in existence. The First Company houses the Chapter's veterans. The eldest, wisest, strongest, and most experienced marines are drawn from every Company to fight under the banner of the First. In addition to this honor, the marines receive training in using the Chapter's numbered suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armor. The First Company rarely operates alone, instead marines are returned to their battle companies where they can fight alongside their brothers and share their knowledge and experience. The Third through Eleventh Company are each active Battle Companies, following the standard Codex formation of mixed squads.

 

You missed the Second. Furthermore - why are they all Battle Companies? How did this deviation arise?

 

Minuo

The Death Heads' Minuo functions as standard Chapter's Master of Recruits. The Minuo is a Chapter veteran, selected by a council of Chaplains. Upon election, the Minuo takes the title up as his name for the remainder of his service. The Minuo is bound to Klysium, separating the him from his battle brothers and the battlefield. It is his duty to train hopefuls until they are ready to fight alongside full battle brothers. However, the Death Heads have adopted a more unconventional approach to motivating recruits. By having the Minuo criticize every fault, ridicule every failure, and praise only the best, he forces the hopefuls to prove themselves worthy to become Astartes. Those that do not are often crippled or die, while those that do demonstrate the strong and defiant nature the Death Heads adore.

 

Wow. A Space Marine Chapter has high recruiting standards...Shocking. Truly shocking.

 

I think having a Master of Recruits without exacting standards would be more unique.

 

* * *

 

The writing needs work, and many of the names feel silly, even by IA standards. The Tainted feel tacked on. A lot of space is dedicated to telling us things we already know, and the most interesting thing about the Chapter is just how they decided squid heads were frightening. It's also very, very short (though that's not necessarily a bad thing).

 

It...just needs more. More polish, more depth, and more coherence. Take out the pointless things, expand on the unique points.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Look. I read the entire Circle of Zerthimon, and illithids are still only a little creepy. Opening with your squid-helmets is not a winning formula. The squid is a not a noble and majestic creature, feared by all. Honest. Golden squid least of all.

 

I think your being a mite unfair. They might not be creepy to you, or fear inspiring but I think to the average soldier joe fighting against an eight foot tall waking battle-tank that anything is going to be frightening. They took these images from their culture as ceremonially important. I don't think that the Thousand Sons massive headpieces are intimidating in the slightest but I do accept that they are carryovers from their original culture. Before they were turned into walking snuff-boxes that is.

 

Also, I think if you met an Illithid in real life, you would be plenty scared. Try to put yourself in the boots of the people who would be facing them perhaps, or have you no fear at all?

 

Not everything on a space marine is designed to inspire fear, if it was all the legions would have been replaced by the Night Lords and left at that.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Grey Hunter Ydalir

[Donkey Kong]

The name feels like it should be Death's Heads. Not that that necessarily works better...

What's a Death Head, anyway? A Space Wolf is pretty clear, as is a Blood Angel, but a Death Head? Do their heads produce Death? Are they the heads of Death (either in the sense of a leader or the sense of a cranium)? It pushes a littler farther into strange and odd than Space Marine names really should. The explanation later is a good one, but it might not be a bad idea to change either Death or Heads. I think it's the Heads bit that's really the problem, but I'm not sure. Just feels odd.

I'm tempted to suggest the Fear Faces, but that's just silly. :)

 

Following that logic, you should also be able to tell me what a White Scar, a Raven Guard, a Death Guard, a Thousand Son and an Ultramarine are. Please, enlighten me, for I am ignorant to all.

 

Also, Fear Faces, you're right, it is silly, hence I feel that way about the rest of the post. You're right, starting off bad leads to something worse.

 

Bet you a dollar?

 

Both at odds with the relentless fatalism of the true soldier of the Emperor, and patently untrue.

 

Inspiration is mostly taken from the song, Raise the Colours High. The last line of the chorus is "We shall never die". Following that, it goes with any Chapter, does the Chapter die with the passing of a generation of marines? No.

 

You can't fame yourself.

Furthermore, it makes it sound like they're all self-aggrandizing. Nobody likes a self-aggrandizmenter.

What kind of reputation is that? You didn't actually say. It can be assumed, but...

 

Actually, any way you try and push it, I can't think of a single individual that hasn't been responsible for their own fame. As far as reputations, reading and making assumptions go, that's the reader's business, if I said they had a good reputation it'd be condescending, like saying that you're a fool and don't understand the basic concept of a reputation.

 

Look. I read the entire Circle of Zerthimon, and illithids are still only a little creepy. Opening with your squid-helmets is not a winning formula. The squid is a not a noble and majestic creature, feared by all. Honest. Golden squid least of all.

Golden-brown squid...mmm...

I wanna make a Planescape chapter now. And I'm hungry. Damn.

 

Continuing with the silly, I see. Well, I'm glad I'm motivating you to do something for your own enjoyment, whether it be play video games or eat. However, I can't help but feel that saying giant squids and octopi are not scary kind of puts you at an odd angle. There have been plenty of movies with a giant octopus attacking ships, hell they're probably as many as there are ones about sharks. If I wanted to be a bigger jerk about it I could toss around the atrocity that was Mega Shark Versus Giant Octopus.

 

In all honesty, giant squids and octopi have been monsters in many a movie and book (ie Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea). They are scary enough.

 

Being admitted to the presence of the Emperor should be, off the top of my head. Furthermore, the statement implies that this is the greatest glory in the Imperium - which it isn't.

Furthermore, adorning one would be decorating it. Wearing one, on the other hand...

Not sure bearer is the right term, though I can't think of a good replacement. This is not an appropriate term - and you're playing fast and loose with tenses generally, here.

"Should one of the bearers fall in battle, no effort will be spared to reclaim the treasured relic."

 

Out of this entire blurb, I've gotten one piece of information really in context with the IA, that is to make it in context of the Chapter. If you've been keeping up, and I'm sure you have based on your opinions so far, the helmets are given to the Chapter Master, Captains, Master of the Forge, Master of Sanctity, Chief Apothecary and Librarian and head of the Honor Guard. As far as Chapter organization goes, you don't get much higher.

 

Adorn, like almost every word in the glorious English language, has multiple definitions. And while most have to do with decorating something, putting your key to office on your head is decorating if I've ever seen it.

 

Did you intentionally name him after Roman currency?

 

Yes. I named the Silver Skull Captain after a silver coin, a little tongue and cheek humor which you seem to be full of. I italicized the important bits for you.

 

Traditional term is terror tactics. You really should dress this up so it sounds a little more impressive - right now it sounds kind of like you're very impressed by the idea, but have little actual understanding of what they are.

 

Thank you, although to be honest, I can't see how I can do any more than state what they do in their combat doctrine. Placing tactics anywhere else is out of place, as a member of the Lexicanium I'd have thought you would know that.

 

Neat. Should mention sooner. Also bears a bit of resemblance to the Night Lords - confess, traitors! Confess!

I'd mention this in one of those "opening chapter blurbs" that are found in italics at the start of articles. More briefly, obviously.

 

I feel it got the recognition it needed in its paragraph.

 

You really have to stop changing Latin terms by one letter. Really.

 

Elaborate, please. As far as I know, I have two Latin names in the IA, Klysium and Stannum. Hardly over the top any way you push it.

 

Holy overly abrupt segue, Batman! Perhaps a little transition for the twenty thousand years of history that just went by?

 

A homeworld is a homeworld. What happened in the past as an introduction may have happened so many years ago. For example, twenty two years ago you were born, a wee bundle of joy weighing x units and measuring y units. To continue your life saga with what happened to twenty two years of your life! is a bit radical.

 

Truly, the most feared weapons of the Gaulish barbarians were their tanks.

Poor choice of terms there, wot?

 

Ignorance on my part, what?

 

You missed the Second. Furthermore - why are they all Battle Companies? How did this deviation arise?

 

No, I didn't. The second is mentioned later in the section you've deemed "tacked on". Obviously, I'm at fault here, how dare I not include vital information about a company of the chapter that you're commenting on by sticking them in a section that clearly isn't worth noting.

 

Why are they all battle companies?

I don't have an answer. Why are the Space Wolves organized in that manner? Why are the Salamanders three companies short and each Company about 20 marines over? Why are the Raven Wing all mounted on bikes, shouldn't they be the Sixth or Seventh Company?

 

Wow. A Space Marine Chapter has high recruiting standards...Shocking. Truly shocking.

I think having a Master of Recruits without exacting standards would be more unique.

 

In response to your ill-tempered sarcasm, I ask you to please find me another chapter with recorded information about an abusive Master of Recruits.

 

The writing needs work, and many of the names feel silly, even by IA standards. The Tainted feel tacked on. A lot of space is dedicated to telling us things we already know, and the most interesting thing about the Chapter is just how they decided squid heads were frightening. It's also very, very short (though that's not necessarily a bad thing).

It...just needs more. More polish, more depth, and more coherence. Take out the pointless things, expand on the unique points.

 

You see, this is where opinions contrast. Personally, I like The Tainted. I also like the names I chose, though you're more than welcome to suggest anything you like. Polish, fine, I can agree. Depth, perhaps, I'm sure there are several sections that need it (and the fear tactics). Coherence, I feel it fits together pretty well.

I don't see anything being pointless.

 

Thank you for your contribution to bettering the IA,

 

KHK

[Octavulg]

Following that logic, you should also be able to tell me what a White Scar, a Raven Guard, a Death Guard, a Thousand Son and an Ultramarine are. Please, enlighten me, for I am ignorant to all.

 

A White Scar is a scar that is white.

 

A Raven Guard is a member of the Guard who resemble or evoke Ravens.

 

A Death Guard is a member of the Guard who resemble or evoke Death.

 

A Thousand Son is one of an organization of one Thousand Sons of someone.

 

An Ultramarine is a foolish concept, best forgotten. They can't all be winners. Alternately, a Marine who is Ultra (official GW POV! Notice all the banners with Ultra! on them?).

 

A Death Head, on the other hand, sounds like some kind of drug addict. It's possible to see "Head which resembles or evokes Death", but it assumes

 

Inspiration is mostly taken from the song, Raise the Colours High. The last line of the chorus is "We shall never die". Following that, it goes with any Chapter, does the Chapter die with the passing of a generation of marines? No.

 

No. However, we generally refers to people before it refers to organizations - admittedly, sometimes the people who make up the organization, but it's inextricably tied to people. If you wanted to convey that the Chapter remained forever, then you should say something like, say, "The Chapter shall never die!".

 

Actually, any way you try and push it, I can't think of a single individual that hasn't been responsible for their own fame. As far as reputations, reading and making assumptions go, that's the reader's business, if I said they had a good reputation it'd be condescending, like saying that you're a fool and don't understand the basic concept of a reputation.

 

No, as in you can't use the word that way. Fame is a noun, not a verb. And you say they have a reputation among Traitor Astartes and Orks, but don't say what it is. If you want to leave it up to the reader, that's your business, but it's an odd exclusion.

 

Continuing with the silly, I see. Well, I'm glad I'm motivating you to do something for your own enjoyment, whether it be play video games or eat. However, I can't help but feel that saying giant squids and octopi are not scary kind of puts you at an odd angle. There have been plenty of movies with a giant octopus attacking ships, hell they're probably as many as there are ones about sharks. If I wanted to be a bigger jerk about it I could toss around the atrocity that was Mega Shark Versus Giant Octopus.

 

In all honesty, giant squids and octopi have been monsters in many a movie and book (ie Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea). They are scary enough.

 

Giant squids aren't scary to individual people. Wolves get people. Dragons get people. Giant squid get ships and sperm whales. Also, there's no explanation of where these helmets came from (beyond being found on the home world), why they're important, or why the squid is seen as so terrifying. Also, a large portion of the scariness comes from the size. Shrinking it (to helmet size) makes it seem much less so. How are ancient helmets found on the Chapter home world even compatible with modern power armor?

 

Also, I am inspired to play Planescape: Torment entirely independent of you. It's very nice that way.

 

Out of this entire blurb, I've gotten one piece of information really in context with the IA, that is to make it in context of the Chapter. If you've been keeping up, and I'm sure you have based on your opinions so far, the helmets are given to the Chapter Master, Captains, Master of the Forge, Master of Sanctity, Chief Apothecary and Librarian and head of the Honor Guard. As far as Chapter organization goes, you don't get much higher.

 

You know, I don't think you actually explain that in the article proper (who specifically got them, that is). That's also seventeen helmets. Unless you're not counting the Second Company Captain's (in the IA).

 

The blurb points, out in order: that your statement that getting a helmet was the greatest honor possible is not true - it might be within the chapter, but you didn't clarify that. The bit about adornment. That bearer is not quite the right term for someone who has been entrusted with a sacred helmet. Makes it sound like he carries it around, rather than actually, y'know, wearing it. Finally, I gave you an example of how you could write that sentence so tenses were consistent and good grammar preserved. Which is not the case right now.

 

Adorn, like almost every word in the glorious English language, has multiple definitions. And while most have to do with decorating something, putting your key to office on your head is decorating if I've ever seen it.

 

It's decorating your head, not the helmet. As currently structured, the sentence means decorating the helmet. It is flat-out wrong.

 

Yes. I named the Silver Skull Captain after a silver coin, a little tongue and cheek humor which you seem to be full of. I italicized the important bits for you.

 

Perhaps an article about the Death Heads is not a place for too much humour? It doesn't fit the tone, and people will tend not to get the joke because of it.

 

It's also not a bad idea to conceal references a little more. The Dark Eldar codex is an example of what not to do: Kruellagh the Vile and Dr. Jheste are not well-hidden references (though Jheste moves toward obscure). That the Denarius is some form of Roman money is well known - and it's jarring. Remembering that it's silver seems likely to be less well-known.

 

Thank you, although to be honest, I can't see how I can do any more than state what they do in their combat doctrine. Placing tactics anywhere else is out of place, as a member of the Lexicanium I'd have thought you would know that.

 

Actually, as a Lexicanium, I know all kinds of things. Including that sometimes you have to tell people things at the start, so they don't ask questions on the way through.

 

"Denarious believed in the virtues of surprise and fear tactics." could become "A firm believer in the virtues of terror tactics and making good use of the element of surprise, Denarious ordered..." and segue into the bit about printing the skulls on the helmet. It feels more natural. The current way looks like you're trying to include surprise and terror tactics because they're cool and lead to victory. It's like how some DIY Chapters write their own tactical compilation, better than the Codex Astartes.

 

I feel it got the recognition it needed in its paragraph.

 

The basic concept of your chapter might be worth mentioning at the outset. Most IAs do have that italicized introduction bit, and it would be a good place to put it.

 

Elaborate, please. As far as I know, I have two Latin names in the IA, Klysium and Stannum. Hardly over the top any way you push it.

 

Denarious was the other one I was thinking of. I was thinking Klysium was a one-letter change from Elysium (which it is), but it's apparently also a place in its own right. So that's fine.

 

A homeworld is a homeworld. What happened in the past as an introduction may have happened so many years ago. For example, twenty two years ago you were born, a wee bundle of joy weighing x units and measuring y units. To continue your life saga with what happened to twenty two years of your life! is a bit radical.

 

Generally speaking, yes. However, not in a biography of me. At minimum, I'd expect some explanation of what changed on the world due to the flooding - of which there currently is very little.

 

Ignorance on my part, what?

 

Meant mostly that calling the chapter barbaric and then going on about their armored assaults seems...odd.

 

No, I didn't. The second is mentioned later in the section you've deemed "tacked on". Obviously, I'm at fault here, how dare I not include vital information about a company of the chapter that you're commenting on by sticking them in a section that clearly isn't worth noting.

 

I'm sorry. Like most people, I read and comprehend in the order in which information is presented. In this section, you have mentioned every company but the second. The reader will ask "what about them?". And besides - it's organization. Surely the appropriate thing to do is mention the Second Company, which is part of the organization of the Chapter no matter which one you consider?

 

I don't have an answer. Why are the Space Wolves organized in that manner? Why are the Salamanders three companies short and each Company about 20 marines over? Why are the Raven Wing all mounted on bikes, shouldn't they be the Sixth or Seventh Company?

 

I suspect the Space Wolves do so because it fits with their Space Viking nature - likely a practice adopted from Fenris. Units of warriors organized around a single charismatic figure is likely the way Russ learned to fight and make war.

 

The Salamanders are three companies short because all but seven were destroyed at Istvaan.

 

The Ravenwing are all mounted on bikes because they're a scout company responsible for finding the Fallen, and apparently interplanetary intelligence gathering is easier on a motorcycle.

 

The Death Heads maintain a formation solely of Battle Companies and with one additional company because...

 

In response to your ill-tempered sarcasm, I ask you to please find me another chapter with recorded information about an abusive Master of Recruits.

 

I ask you to find me one with a Master of Recruits who isn't.

 

Space Marines are tough and hardy. The recruitment process kills a massive number of recruits. Training does too. Space Marines have exacting standards, and if you buy the fluff train for almost the entirety of the day. Why would a tough, hard-to-please Master of Recruits be worthy of comment?

 

You see, this is where opinions contrast. Personally, I like The Tainted. I also like the names I chose, though you're more than welcome to suggest anything you like. Polish, fine, I can agree. Depth, perhaps, I'm sure there are several sections that need it (and the fear tactics). Coherence, I feel it fits together pretty well.

I don't see anything being pointless.

 

I said nothing about whether or not the Tainted were a likable concept. I said they felt tacked on. They pop up from nowhere, they have no particular links to the rest of the article, and they disappear again. Their appearance has had no perceptible effect on the chapter as a whole. They do not feel like an integral part of the Chapter. The Fallen are an integral part of the Dark Angels. The entire IA: DA builds up to them. Not so with the Tainted.

 

If you like the names, that's fine. But Filo Howl is a silly name. I'm sorry. I like the name Tancred. It would still be silly in a modern context (so I don't use it in one). Filo Howl, however, is silly pretty much no matter where you go.

 

There are a lot of things you explain more than once, or that you explain that are kind of integral to all Space Marine chapters. You also don't explain a number of things which seem to be of importance - like those damn helmets, or the differing company structure.

 

Plus, it's only 2000 words long. Is that really all there is to say about this Chapter?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

If you wanted to convey that the Chapter remained forever, then you should say something like, say, "The Chapter shall never die!".

 

I think your being more than a little picky with this point Octavulg. I still stand on what I said about your own views on what is scary and what isn't.

 

I think it's fine, it's a war-cry after all and you want to intimidate the enemy more than sing any type of slogan. War cries are used to put your opponent off balance and less about how grammatically or thematically correct it is. Saying 'we' in reference to the brotherhood as a whole in order to make a war-cry less cumbersome is not exactly a huge issue and probably the weakest criticism you've leveled so far.

 

Filo Howl, however, is silly pretty much no matter where you go.

 

I think whether a name that KHK likes and you don't is less of a pressing issue for the Lexi when reviewing a potential addition to the Librarium, frankly. Not only that but you really do seem to miss a rather large point when dealing with, well, anything really. Opinion is subjective. Just because you don't think something is fantastic doesn't mean it's not.

 

While most of the points you make do have some merit, a lot of others don't simply because you are taking your own opinion as law and inferring that anyone who disagrees is wrong and simply on principle that is something I disagree with.

 

Not only that, but you didn't exactly jump into this topic gently, you jumped in headfirst with the full intention to put the authors back up with the camber of your comments. Now I like the Death Heads and will defend them against some of your more... disagreeable points.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Grey Hunter Ydalir

[Octavulg]

I think your being more than a little picky with this point Octavulg. I still stand on what I said about your own views on what is scary and what isn't.

 

I'm always picky.

 

Because y'know what? "That's a little issue - I don't think I need to fix it." is the absolute antithesis of a good IA. Commissar Molotov and flintlocklaser don't decide that stuff is minor and unimportant, so they're just gonna leave it. They may leave it for later. They may work on other things first. They do not forget about issues and not bother fixing them.

 

I think it's fine, it's a war-cry after all and you want to intimidate the enemy more than sing any type of slogan. War cries are used to put your opponent off balance and less about how grammatically or thematically correct it is. Saying 'we' in reference to the brotherhood as a whole in order to make a war-cry less cumbersome is not exactly a huge issue and probably the weakest criticism you've leveled so far.

 

A war-cry that can be countered by the opponent responding, "Oh yes you will, once we shoot you." lacks a certain something.

 

I think whether a name that KHK likes and you don't is less of a pressing issue for the Lexi when reviewing a potential addition to the Librarium, frankly. Not only that but you really do seem to miss a rather large point when dealing with, well, anything really. Opinion is subjective. Just because you don't think something is fantastic doesn't mean it's not.

 

Everything is a pressing issue regarding submission to the Librarium. See second paragraph. Furthermore, just because you think something is fantastic doesn't mean it is. I assure you, this is the case with almost everything I write as well.

 

While most of the points you make do have some merit, a lot of others don't simply because you are taking your own opinion as law and inferring that anyone who disagrees is wrong and simply on principle that is something I disagree with.

 

Alternately, a lot of this is me pointing out things that look wrong from an outside perspective and the authors getting all defensive because what they produced must be perfect. People who disagree with me through the lens of "I like it, so it's OK"? They usually are wrong. As am I when I try that.

 

Not only that, but you didn't exactly jump into this topic gently, you jumped in headfirst with the full intention to put the authors back up with the camber of your comments. Now I like the Death Heads and will defend them against some of your more... disagreeable points.

 

Go for it. But you're not doing so well so far. Furthermore, your visitation to my intentions lacks something - possibly because you don't have a damned idea what I intended.

 

Words are misused. Ideas are not fully explained. Concepts are raised and cast aside without further elaboration (the kraken helms, the Tainted, and the flooding of the planet, off the top of my head). Feel free to ignore these points and focus on the more subjective parts of what I said. It won't change the fact that right now, there are major flaws with this IA.

 

EDIT:

 

I've reread everything I've said, and have also concluded that KHK went looking for an excuse to ignore what I've said and get offended. Good for him. Doesn't change the fact that the article needs work.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Octavulg

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

possibly because you don't have a damned idea what I intended.

 

A fair point, in reality I have no clue that's true. However, as I said I am judging your comments by how they come across. When you talk about viewing something from the outside that's exactly what I am doing, you can re-read your own words all you like and still come to the same conclusion, I'm looking at it differently and that is the impression I was given.

 

Go for it. But you're not doing so well so far.

 

:down: No probably not.

 

They may leave it for later. They may work on other things first. They do not forget about issues and not bother fixing them.

 

Fair enough and that's true. However, I think minor points would be more in the vein of something not making sense in the construct of the 40k universe, not so much what name the author elects to give his characters.

 

went looking for an excuse to ignore what I've said and get offended.

 

Presentation Octavulg, presentation in a text only format dictates how your words will be taken. Ridicule and sarcasm rarely come across well, no matter how jovially you intended the remarks and I doubt you actually intended to offend him, merely you didn't quite seem to think how it could be taken the wrong way despite what I said above.

[Donkey Kong]

I've reread everything I've said, and have also concluded that KHK went looking for an excuse to ignore what I've said and get offended. Good for him. Doesn't change the fact that the article needs work.

 

Nice attitude, I might add. No, I didn't disregard everything you said, I disregarded the nonsense that you cannot deny is nonsense. I honestly don't care what you intend to do in any video game or at any meal. I also don't really think that the names should matter, or even be a part of your criticism. I can understand Denarious, I don't know that it's common knowledge, maybe a different community? Regardless, I'll be changing it.

 

Filo Howl, really, please explain to me how it is silly. I would honestly love to know, I've heard this a dozen times from a dozen different people, tell me how the name is silly. What makes Filo so ridiculous? The fact that it shares a name variation with a Middle Eastern dough doesn't mean much. So, please explain it to me, I've yet to see how Filo Howl is silly.

 

A war-cry that can be countered by the opponent responding, "Oh yes you will, once we shoot you." lacks a certain something.

 

I gave you a perfectly fine explanation, and you continue to pick. Maybe my explanation is full of it, and maybe I am too. The fact of the matter is I'm not changing it because of your opinion. As terrible and stubborn as that may seem, it's a minor aspect in any ordeal, it works, and "We shall never die" sounds far better than "The Chapter shall never die", just like "Death Heads" sounds better than "Fear Faces".

 

A White Scar is a scar that is white.

A Raven Guard is a member of the Guard who resemble or evoke Ravens.

A Death Guard is a member of the Guard who resemble or evoke Death.

A Thousand Son is one of an organization of one Thousand Sons of someone.

An Ultramarine is a foolish concept, best forgotten. They can't all be winners. Alternately, a Marine who is Ultra (official GW POV! Notice all the banners with Ultra! on them?).

A Death Head, on the other hand, sounds like some kind of drug addict. It's possible to see "Head which resembles or evokes Death", but it assumes

 

Cute. However, they all assume.

What do the Raven Guard and Death Guard guard?

How are they a Thousand Sons when the legions clearly numbered far more than one thousand?

To be quite honest, no, I've never seen a banner with "ULTRA!" on it. I've seen a white, inverse Omega on an ultramarine blue colored Space Marine.

 

Giant squids aren't scary to individual people. Wolves get people. Dragons get people. Giant squid get ships and sperm whales.

 

So, the individual people on the ship that the giant squid is apparently scary to means that it's not frightening to individual people? I don't see your logic, nor do I see your point.

 

Also, I am inspired to play Planescape: Torment entirely independent of you. It's very nice that way.

 

To put this nicely, I don't care. You bringing it up in the first place made me wonder whether or not you care. Also, I would have hoped that personal insults would be beneath you, clearly they are not, and I am mistaken.

 

Denarious was the other one I was thinking of. I was thinking Klysium was a one-letter change from Elysium (which it is), but it's apparently also a place in its own right. So that's fine.

 

Then one would have hoped that you would have changed your original criticism. Denarious, meaning silver. In the end, you said, and I quote:

 

You really have to stop changing Latin terms by one letter. Really.

 

Three things is hardly worth "STOP YOU'RE MAKING ME RAGE!" blurb you've given me. Actually, it also reads along the lines of: you're stupid, stop trying to act like you understand Latin you online translator using :down: .

 

Meant mostly that calling the chapter barbaric and then going on about their armored assaults seems...odd.

 

Because barbaric Chapters, such as the Space Wolves, go around in loin cloths carrying wooden shields and axes and running around in face paint. To answer you, being barbaric does not mean being primitive. For all you lecture me on word use (and for the most part, rightfully so, thank you) I would have hoped you would have known this one.

 

I'm sorry. Like most people, I read and comprehend in the order in which information is presented. In this section, you have mentioned every company but the second. The reader will ask "what about them?". And besides - it's organization. Surely the appropriate thing to do is mention the Second Company, which is part of the organization of the Chapter no matter which one you consider?

 

I apologize, like most people, I read and then criticize. I do not read section by section, basing each section on its own merits, hence the idea of there being a flow.

 

As for the Second being in the organization, please enlighten me, because I'm not all that up to scratch, are the Fallen in the Dark Angel's organization?

 

Space Marines are tough and hardy. The recruitment process kills a massive number of recruits. Training does too. Space Marines have exacting standards, and if you buy the fluff train for almost the entirety of the day. Why would a tough, hard-to-please Master of Recruits be worthy of comment?

 

Maybe because this Chapter has a Master of Recruits who is outside of the normal Chapter's chain of command with the Tenth Company Captain holding the title. Also, you're argument is annoying beyond belief:

 

Q: Prove that the squirrel can fly.

A: Tell me why it can't?

Q: Why is the fish jumping?

A: Why shouldn't the fish be jumping?

Q: Why should I move before I shoot?

A: Why shouldn't you move before you shoot?

 

Questions and answers like these don't do anything, they're childish.

 

I'll be as honest as I can here, what annoys me the most is that you pick at things that shouldn't be important and you have simple passing mentions as to what should. For example, I honestly appreciate:

 

Watch your grammar.

Expand on X.

Y is pretty redundant.

 

However, you're concentrating on:

 

That name is a bad idea and you should change it.

That battle cry doesn't make sense, change it.

Squid isn't scary.

 

So, while yes, the article does need more work, and I have actually started retyping it, you're criticism was honestly a joke, I'm insulted by it and while it had some merit amongst the trash, it was overall unpleasant in tone and gave the impression that not only do you not care, you would rather deliver more nonsense than suggestions.

 

Thank you, though, for the typing exercise and the information you did give, I'll be sure to use it when I'm typing this new version.

 

EDIT: On reflection, my responses were anything but civil. I didn't lie when I said I didn't get much from your posts, but I did get some as far as what needs expanding. I appreciate the errors you've pointed out. Again, thank you for what I did get out of your post.

Edited October 31, 2009 by KingHongKong

[Octavulg]

Fair enough and that's true. However, I think minor points would be more in the vein of something not making sense in the construct of the 40k universe, not so much what name the author elects to give his characters.

 

Not so, grasshopper. Naming your Chapter Master Flavius Bean would be a bad choice, for example - because the silliness of the name kills the immersion.

 

All aspects of an article are important - right down to the individual word choices in the smallest section.

 

Presentation Octavulg, presentation in a text only format dictates how your words will be taken. Ridicule and sarcasm rarely come across well, no matter how jovially you intended the remarks and I doubt you actually intended to offend him, merely you didn't quite seem to think how it could be taken the wrong way despite what I said above.

 

No, I see how it can be taken the wrong way. I also see that KHK demonstrated rather amply that he intended from the outset to take it in that way if at all possible. I posted a critique of his IA. His response was wholly inappropriate, regardless of the merits or lack thereof of my own posts. Furthermore, you can quite easily read my post in a light which is not insulting. I challenge you to do the same with his.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Octavulg

[Octavulg]

Denarious kinda works, it's just that people will fixate on the currency bit before the silver bit (and I'd say various computer media have spread the currency bit wider than the silver bit), which may cause them to lack appreciation for its cleverness and may also jar immersion some.

 

And if you don't think the names you use in your chapter matter? What are you doing trying to get into the Librarium? If you don't want your IA to be the best thing it can be, why are you even bothering? Why should I care about making your IA good enough if you don't? Why should anyone, come to that? If your chapter isn't important to you, why should it be important to us?

 

You must care about your chapter, grasshopper. You should want it to be perfect. Or at least start out that way. It wearing you down would be understandable.

 

Filo Howl, really, please explain to me how it is silly. I would honestly love to know, I've heard this a dozen times from a dozen different people, tell me how the name is silly. What makes Filo so ridiculous? The fact that it shares a name variation with a Middle Eastern dough doesn't mean much. So, please explain it to me, I've yet to see how Filo Howl is silly.

 

Well, there is the whole pastry angle. Added to that, it's Howl. Giving anyone a verb as a last name is kinda silly. If you named him Shoot or Race or Turn it would seem silly as well. Filo's not quite as silly as Howl. It's weird, but in a universe with a Vladimir Pugh, I think it could pass unnoticed.

 

Plus there's the whole Howl's Moving Castle thing. Not that I know a damned thing about it, it's just another thing that might distract folks. Like naming him Churchill, Pratchett or some other figure of repute.

 

What do the Raven Guard and Death Guard guard?

How are they a Thousand Sons when the legions clearly numbered far more than one thousand?

To be quite honest, no, I've never seen a banner with "ULTRA!" on it. I've seen a white, inverse Omega on an ultramarine blue colored Space Marine.

 

Guard or Guards are both terms often used for military organizations. Witness various Royal Guards (as in plural Royal Guard), the Red Guard or the Coldstream Guards. Nothing wrong with that.

 

IIRC, the Thousand Sons originally did number a thousand.

 

Trust me - the term Ultra! does pop up in Ultramarines fluff and imagery. It's one of the true shames of 40K. Take a gander at the second Captain from the left on page 109 of the C:SM for example.

 

So, the individual people on the ship that the giant squid is apparently scary to means that it's not frightening to individual people? I don't see your logic, nor do I see your point.

 

Wolves, dragons, etc. engage people on an individual level. They are threats to individuals. A kraken is a threat to a ship - the people are incidental. It'd be like putting asteroids or bombs on your helmet. Yeah, they're scary, hell, they're really scary - but they don't threaten individuals in the same way that lions, or tigers, or bears do.

 

Oh my.

 

Because barbaric Chapters, such as the Space Wolves, go around in loin cloths carrying wooden shields and axes and running around in face paint. To answer you, being barbaric does not mean being primitive.

 

"barbaric

adj

1. of or characteristic of barbarians

2. primitive or unsophisticated; unrestrained

3. brutal

[from Latin barbaricus foreign, outlandish; see barbarous]

barbarically adv

 

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged 6th Edition 2003. © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003"

 

Note #2.

 

When in doubt, the reader will fixate on the meaning least appropriate to what you wanted. Best to use things that can't be misinterpreted. I think #3 might fit well.

 

I apologize, like most people, I read and then criticize. I do not read section by section, basing each section on its own merits, hence the idea of there being a flow.

 

As for the Second being in the organization, please enlighten me, because I'm not all that up to scratch, are the Fallen in the Dark Angel's organization?

 

Many people don't read to the end. They read until they decide they want to stop reading. If you don't explain stuff, that can happen long before the end is reached. I put in my comments as I read the thing for the first time, because that's the easiest way to see the problems a casual reader would see.

 

The Second Company has a replacement Second Company, do they not? The degree of officialness of the new one was not entirely clear. Even if that formation is not an official part of the Chapter's organization, you should explain the Second Company's absence. The Fallen were never a formal part of the Dark Angels chapter - the Tainted were a formal part of the Death Heads. Either their replacement or their absence should be a part of the organization.

[Donkey Kong]

And if you don't think the names you use in your chapter matter? What are you doing trying to get into the Librarium? If you don't want your IA to be the best thing it can be, why are you even bothering? Why should I care about making your IA good enough if you don't? Why should anyone, come to that? If your chapter isn't important to you, why should it be important to us?

 

On the contrary, I don't want names criticized because as of now, I'm pretty set on what I want the important ones to be. Denarious was honestly a pun I intended at silly'o clock in the morning in the first form of the Chapter.

 

Names such as Filo, Thussaud, Narrick and Tobulo are ones that I put some degrees of thought into. I know that most of these you never mentioned, I'm sorry if it comes out cross, just to give another scenario:

 

Thussaud was originally named Barbarossa (ie Red Beard). Questioning came about as to why I named the Captain after the Antagonist in the first Pirates of the Caribbean (Barbossa). A valid example considering the only things separating them are an ar after the second b. Suggestions came up and I liked Thussaud.

 

I can see where you're coming from with Howl, and I think you're right. It's even subconscious when I type that it's better to use Filo then it is to mention Howl.

 

Other things such as "We shall never die", please tell me that you think it sounds better than "The Chapter shall never die". I couldn't find sarcasm when I read through that comment and upon rereading, I got hints but nothing in the way of "laugh at this, it's funny".

 

Trust me - the term Ultra! does pop up in Ultramarines fluff and imagery. It's one of the true shames of 40K. Take a gander at the second Captain from the left on page 109 of the C:SM for example.

 

I'll have to trust you on this, I don't own the Codex.

 

Thank you for the dictionary excerpt, and you're right. I'll replace it with brutal.

 

I'll try and edit the Second Company into the Organization.

 

I'm really at ends on what is scary level. Yes, I agree with you that lions, tigers, dragons and bears all are scary to individuals. On the other hand, sailors, the main theme of the Chapter, are afraid of giant squid monsters. I also really like the chapter symbol that I've chosen and I like how the helmets tie it in. To be fair, I agree with you that they need a reason for even existing, but the argument that ancient helmets wouldn't work with power armor is sort of a moot point when Power armor that has existed since the Horus Heresy is still in use.

 

As a question to you, do you think that if there were some kind of octopus or squid monster on the homeworld akin to Frenis and its wolves or Nocturne and its salamanders, would it be appropriate for the scary squid helmet?

Edited October 31, 2009 by KingHongKong

[Ferrus Manus]

Other things such as "We shall never die", please tell me that you think it sounds better than "The Chapter shall never die". I couldn't find sarcasm when I read through that comment and upon rereading, I got hints but nothing in the way of "laugh at this, it's funny".

Personally I'd go with "Death is Immortal!" or something along those lines. Just a thought.

[Lysimachus]

Overall, I really like this one. The skulls on helms idea is very cool and, besides a few grammar bits, it's well written.

 

A few little points though (and I'm afraid on some of them I'm going to agrre with Octavulg!):

 

The name. I love it, but I do think it would be better as Death's Head (singular) or Death's Heads (plural)

 

The squid helms. Again, no problem with this, giant squids are plenty scary enough for me. However, they need more explanation. Where did they come from? How do they fit on an Astartes head? Were they made for Astartes? Or have they been modified to fit on top of a standard PA helm? Your word count is pretty low so this is an area you've got room to expand.

 

The 2nd Co. I'm sorry, but Octy was right, the Tainted bit does feel a bit tacked one. Maybe a quick sentence at the end of the first para, Org section, just to say something like: 'The Chapter's 2nd Co. has recently been replaced by an ad-hoc formation placed on special duties, though none outside the Chapter know why this is or what their purpose may be.'

I'd also think about moving the Minuo into the main Org text with the other characters and move the Tainted bit into the sidebar instead, would just stop the 'tacked on at the end' feel.

 

The names. Mostly, I think these are fine. 'Howl' is probably the weakest, but if you like it, I don't think it jars too badly.

 

Very nice work, anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the next edit.

 

cheers

 

Lysimachus

[Donkey Kong]

Edited into opening post. Edited November 2, 2009 by KingHongKong

[Donkey Kong]

The IA has had a basic overhaul. With the exception of the Tainted which, as suggested, will become a sidebar, the IA still has just over 2000 words, somewhat disheartening, but I'm sure I can find areas to expand, the Chapter Cult being the most obvious.

 

I hope to have a little more in by the end of this week, any criticism on it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

KHK

[Donkey Kong]

While it's still nowhere near completion, the IA has had several paragraphs added and quite a few edits.

 

The Combat Doctrine sort of gets in more with the Chapter's fear tactics, though it's more guerrilla actions . . .

I know it's a ridiculous question, but isn't guerrilla warfare a lot like infiltration and terrorism? Or am I just going insane? Probably the latter.

 

The Tainted have really been slipping my mind for a while. It's not that I don't like them, it's just that with everything I've changed, I don't know where to go.

 

In the first form, the Tainted are a group of renegades from the Chapter set on dying heroes deaths. The main purpose of them is to really add the 11th Company into the mix and give that "chasing treasure" feel that I wanted some aspect of the Chapter to have, hence Thussaud having the helm. Thussaud originally runs off into the Ork empires surrounding the Maelstrom, but I moved the Chapter away from the Maelstrom, making that a bit iffy.

 

I've sort of been thinking of another idea:

 

Thussaud gets caught in the warp following the Gehenna Campaign.

His ship, instead of being invaded by daemons, is basically torn apart.

The Ship then goes on and becomes part of an Ork Rok/ Space Hulk (another stupid question, is there a difference?), lo and behold, the Warboss finds Thussauds' helm.

He sticks it on his big head and goes across the oomiverse.

Narrick leads a boarding party on the Space Hulk after parts of Thussauds' ship are identified.

He finds the corpses of Second Co. and Thussaud. He also sees the Warboss.

Narrick tries to get the Warboss, He fails.

Narrick talks with the Captains about this, he feels that Thussaud failed to protect a Chapter relic, hence the shame.

The Captains want the helmet back and promise to make Narrick a Captain if he can get the helmet.

The replacement Second Co. is formed, Narrick is ashamed of Thussuad's loss and names his Co. the Eleventh.

Narrick sets off after Big Boss Tu-sod.

 

Ridiculous, unimaginative, overall bad, but I think it might work.

 

Opinions on the IA as it stands now and the possible replacement tainted section?

[Tyrannicide]

I haven't even bothered coming into this thread since the last time I commented (which I believe might have been in the other thread) but I do think you've put more thought into the broad outline of the 'Tainted'. I'm not sure how your current incarnation of their role plays out (and I would look if I had the time, sorry) but I do like this new idea of how they tie into the Chapter. It's one of the things I will support you on, though it needs much more developing.

 

That said, I've never liked the name 'Filo' or 'Howl', or a combination there of. I would personally look somewhere else. I may be one of the few that actually likes the name 'Howl' more so than 'Filo'. The name (Filo that is) just sounds too... playful (I'm sure there's a better word-choice, but my brain is slowly shutting down for the night) to be a Space Marine Captain.

[Lysimachus]

Overall, it’s very good, your writing has improved a great deal, even since the last edit. Hope you don’t mind but a few little points I noticed that might need changing:

 

 

To express the fear his Chapter inspired

 

They’ve not had time to do it yet, maybe ‘his Chapter should inspire’?

 

 

Monumental tides from the broken poles washed down the world's expansive canyons and submerging all but the highest cities.

 

Should either be ‘and submerged’ or ‘canyons, submerging’

 

 

Over twenty meters in length and ten thousand kilograms

 

Need to be 'and weighing' or add ‘in weight’ at the end

 

 

supplying recruits for the world's Arbites

 

did you mean Astartes here? Arbites (if I remember right) are usually taken to serve on a world other than the one they were born on, so they don’t feel any sense of loyalty to the population over the Imperium.

 

 

world's renown artistry

 

renowned

 

 

The final assault is the most disastrous operation by the Death Heads

 

Doesn’t sound quite right, sounds like it’s disastrous for them, which is clearly not what you meant! ;) perhaps terrifying or something like that?

 

 

The Death Heads are vicious warriors, throwing themselves into combat with unmatched ferocity. The Chapter's Astartes are often brash, headstrong, stubborn and volatile. These traits have benefited the Chapter in countless conflicts, where the Death Heads have prevailed against impossible odds. This proud nature has also worked against the Chapter, leading to the loss of esteemed battle brothers. The Death Heads are renown for their courage in the face of any foe, and every Chapter Astartes is proud to bear that mark. For everything the Chapter's collective bad temper has wrought, the Chapter's Astartes are equally patient, clever, tactful and perceptive, making them perfect for their roles as infiltrators and rebels.

 

I’d honestly remove the last sentence from this paragraph, it’s a total contradiction to the second sentence, and (IMHO) the feel of the Chapter as a whole. Oh, and renowned, not renown, again.

 

 

An assortment of traditions have been absorbed by the Chapter, predominantly from their parent Chapter, the Silver Skulls

 

Does this include the Silver Skulls practice of head-hunting, might be worth a mention?

 

 

 

As I said, I like it very much, and I think the new idea for the tainted is much better, I feel slightly sorry for Thussaud and his men now, after all, it sounds like they’ve not really done anything wrong, just been unlucky, and it’s more about the way Narrick views them.

 

Good! Keep going!

 

Lysimachus

Edited November 6, 2009 by Strike Captain Lysimachus