Chaos with the new wolf dex?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

This was brought up in the rumors thread. Anybody planning to do this? Most of the new codex info is in the rumor thread. The codex has been seen by plenty of people now so enough is confirmed to start speculating. The new grey hunters are just like our vanilla marines but with atsknf. Now that we're not the only people with uber grit the chaos codex is looking even more lame and boring. Thoughts?

[DuskRaider]

No. I've said it on other forums, but if you want to play Chaos, use the Chaos codex, however bland or crappy as it may be. I think it's a bit lame when folks jump ship to make a "counts-as" with the newest and most popular or powerful codex to hit the shelves. It reeks of power gaming. I for one will continue to use the Chaos 'dex until GW gives us a new one, for better or worse (most likely worse).

[the jeske]

drop pods , obel scouts , Lt lvl Hqs that are actually good and different , terminators with tons of options , WG that can make a stand in for chosen, actually working jump packers and bikers , a possibilty to make a whole terminator army [AL were the first to use whole terminators companies and not single squads to bolster normal sm] , ultra grit troops with ATSKNF [more fluffy then icons that stop to work when they die] and two specials .... more or less hello there AL ,NL , WB lists . wold raiders etc may not be fluffy as crusaders etc , but who cares its possible to make a more fluffy AL list with SW dex then the chaos dex.

[The_Crippster]

I'm still deffinetly sticking with the chaos dex. the new SW dex dosnt have Plague Marines, Dual Princes, Lash of torment, Oblits and other fun little things like that.

 

I wouldnt be above using some SW models to counts as CSMs, those beards are cool!

[Corpse.]

Agreed with Jeske,

Codex should represent more then just a few things of a legion of chaos. I see loyalist codex-esque iron warrior Counts-As all the time, and thats with a pair of conversion beamer iron smiths without using the heavy support dreadnoughts. (Or very few of them considering a terminator heavy force)

 

If the SW codex can represent a few legions here and there, I won't mind it. For the casual player who just paints them chaotic and uses any marine codex, I say thats a bit over the top and should be WYSIWYG represented. (Beyond just messing around with the new rules of course, that should be fine)

[Hellbreaker]

I have 3 notes to share.

 

1. No devoted squads('Zerkers, TS, etc)

2. No Defiler~ <3

3. Space wolfs are for furries.

 

Cheers!

[davidren2401]

The Lone Wolf unit would be great for representing rouge chaos champions

[chillin]

Just checked it out.

Would probably be good for when I use all undidvided army. You mean I can customize my chaos lord....wierd.

And I can use my converted dreads again. I still won't use anything chaos is not supposed to have, plaz cannons & multimeltas in squads etc. I will probably play around with it some, the people I play against won't care. I will still probably use the chaos dex (such as it is :tu: )

mostly though.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

I'm going to give it a look.

[incinerator950]

3. Space wolfs are for furries.

 

About damn time someone else said it

[Lord_Caerolion]

Plus, Acute Senses means my Night Lords can actually see in the dark again!

[Drudge Dreadnought]

3. Space wolfs are for furries.

 

About damn time someone else said it

 

Yep. And i agree with Duskraider as well. Still, its nice to know the options are there for people who don't mind doing it.

[Corpse.]

Space Wolf genre has been around before gay bars started making the furry fandom popular.

 

SW's are just another victim because they're based off animals. The 13th company is based off the legendary werewolf. Anything popular gets the "Mary sue" tag, fag-tag(from 4 channers normally), and furry/etc/nazi additional requisite before they feel good enough about themselves that they "voiced their opinion".

 

Space wolves in the hands of an old gamer who's used them since 3rd edition comes across this and feels like the old vampire loving goths that get labled with the messed up "your a twilight fag lover" label.

 

Give it up. Following the masses is a mob mentality, and we all know how well that settles for the orks.

 

Though I can agree with how people feel when a 9 year old shows up with a battle force+AoBR set mixed together and asks you to play them. All new armies get that... Its just because its "that time of the half-year". Real men deal with it without complaining.

[chillin]

I think it's a bit lame when folks jump ship to make a "counts-as" with the newest and most popular or powerful codex to hit the shelves. It reeks of power gaming.

 

I don't think someone who might try the SW dex to represent an undivided legion would be doing it for power gaming reasons. After all the pwr gamers make up some BS about how their dual lash princes in their "NL's" army are actually NL's DP's that are SOOOO terrifying that they scare the enemy troops into going where they want them to. Or the "WB's" player that sz their lash sorc's are actually 2 WB's DA's that are such a great orators that they talk the enemy solders into bunching up under falling ord. shells. A fluffy BL army is made up of 2 lash DP's, PM's and 6-9 oblits...right ? A slanny lash sorc in a rino full of khorne brzrkrs is ok if abby told the brzrkrs not to smash the slanny sorc's face open with a chain axe...that's not pwr gaming. Those are the pwr gamers. People that try to run fluffy undivided armies have been handicapping themselves since this dex came out. I can't blame them if they want to see if the SW's dex let's them represent their undivided armies better then the current chaos dex does.

---When I saw "acute senses" in the SW's (rumored) dex I immediately thought of Burias-Drak'shal, icon bearer of WB's, who had a daemon inside him, and also NL's with their acute senses of C:csm 3.5. When I read about "counter attack" I immediately thought of Black Legionaries, who have not pledged to any 1 god but have fought for thousands of years in hundreds of battles and know what to do when an enemy charges them.

--- The "counts as" I've discribed are way more lame then using a SW dex to represent an undivided legion IMO. Grey hunters with their counter attack AND bolter, bp & ccw represent my 6-8 thoousand year old BL solders better then "I've fought (and lived through) hundreds of battles and all I have to show for it is that I picked up a ccw to go with my bolter & bp.

[chillin]

I have 3 notes to share.

 

1. No devoted squads('Zerkers, TS, etc)

2. No Defiler~ <3

3. Space wolfs are for furries.

 

1- I like running all undivided, fits MY armies fluff, no cult troops, no marked characters. NL, WB, IW's (maybe some brzrkrs), AL, also should have not cult troops/characters.

2- like defilers just fine but like preds and havocs just as well.

3- have no idea what you are talking about :blink: . Rather stupid statement IMO. Had to ask several people what your refrence ment. The 2 SW's players I know are into the Viking thing, I assure you they do not dress up in furry, fake animal costumes. If you accused them of that, they would laugh at you or get aggressive toward you (not sure which ?).

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Way to not take a joke Corpse. 0_o

[chillin]

if it was supposed to be a joke...sorry. I really didn't know what a furry was. Guess I don't run in that crowd :blink: .

The rest of the stuff I said, I stand by though ;)

[grimz]

It's not a bad idea, I might do it for my AL Cell, more so since I heard AL did originally have an all terminator army.

 

However... I like oblits.. and DPs..

[WarpWhisper]

When I read about "counter attack" I immediately thought of Black Legionaries, who have not pledged to any 1 god but have fought for thousands of years in hundreds of battles and know what to do when an enemy charges them.

 

Really? <_<

 

Tbh, from my point of view, that example really fits into all the others that you mentioned in the beginning of your post about pwr gaming; I've always assumed (maybe wrongly, I suppose) that counter-attack is almost the equivalent of furious charge, in that it represents an attack of anger and lost tempers; not a level headed response to an assault.

 

Although it almost makes it sound like you think that BL should be the same to the other Chaos forces as C:SM makes out the Smurfs are supposed to be to all other SM chapters. Which not being a BL, I may resent a little bit! ;)

[Legatus]

ultra grit troops with ATSKNF [more fluffy then icons that stop to work when they die]

In what bizarro world would giving Chaos Marines the one rule that has basically distinguished loyalists from Chaos Marines ever since 2nd Edition be considered more fluffy than fickle blessings of the dark gods? ATSKNF is like the antithesis of a fluffy chaos rule.

[the jeske]

that counter-attack is almost the equivalent of furious charge, in that it represents an attack of anger and lost tempers; not a level headed response to an assault.

only in the SW dex your told that the "counter attack" rule represents a level headed response unlike FC . same with banshees and exarch with counter attack , if an eldar would go actually angry and lost his temper he would either go chaos or die because of how high their emotion out put is.

 

its is way way beyond the lol and whining , when half of a faction[the undivided legions save BL] is represented better and more fluffy with another codex.

[WarpWhisper]

that counter-attack is almost the equivalent of furious charge, in that it represents an attack of anger and lost tempers; not a level headed response to an assault.

only in the SW dex your told that the "counter attack" rule represents a level headed response unlike FC .

Fair enough; I haven't seen the new SW dex yet, just brief rules summaries on the interwebz.

[Brother Amarel]

ultra grit troops with ATSKNF [more fluffy then icons that stop to work when they die]

In what bizarro world would giving Chaos Marines the one rule that has basically distinguished loyalists from Chaos Marines ever since 2nd Edition be considered more fluffy than fickle blessings of the dark gods? ATSKNF is like the antithesis of a fluffy chaos rule.

The problem is that the whole Icon Bearer thing is naff and doesn't well represent the situation either.

[chillin]

Really? :)

Tbh, from my point of view, that example really fits into all the others that you mentioned in the beginning of your post about pwr gaming;

 

I've always assumed (maybe wrongly, I suppose) that counter-attack is almost the equivalent of furious charge, in that it represents an attack of anger and lost tempers; not a level headed response to an assault.

 

Although it almost makes it sound like you think that BL should be the same to the other Chaos forces as C:SM makes out the Smurfs are supposed to be to all other SM chapters. Which not being a BL, I may resent a little bit! ;)

 

1- like I said if I (or anyone else) wanted to pwr game, we would just use 2 lash/PM/template spam wouldn't we. How is counter attack anywhere near as pwrful as that ? Can't counter attack when the other guy can just keep you outta hth range and drop templates on you.

 

2- counter attack is exactly a lvl headed response to being attacked. It's like being a counter striker in martial arts.

 

3- The only simularities between BL and UM's is that GW made them both poster boys (don't know why ?). Not just BL csm's could be well represented w/ counter strike but any of the legions, as the csm's in all of them have thousands of years of fighting experience. All that training and fighting offer no benefit unless you pledge to khorne and become a brzrkr ?

-

Like I said, I personally will probably play around with the SW dex but still mainly use the CSM one, but I can certainly see why some undivided legion players would want to give it a try, and I wouldn't have a problem playing against some one who did. It's not like I'm trying to talk anyone into it, I a doubt you are going to talk anyone out of it ;)

[Legatus]

The problem is that the whole Icon Bearer thing is naff and doesn't well represent the situation either.

It does not represent Cult units very well. It is quite sufficient for Chaos Space Marines with a deities blessing.