Which Legion dissapointed you the most?

[Gree]

And second, Guilliman, for sitting there after beating Kor Phaeron thinking "If I stall a little longer, Dad will get offed and I'll be able to come back and boss my brothers around like the meglomaniacal :cuss that I am, and threaten to start another civil war if they don't do what I say."

 

Yeah sure, just like Guilliman to not immidetly head to Terra to renforce the Emperor and destroying a large rebel renforcement on the way there. Yep, all that 2nd editon fluff anf Index Astartes articles about doing that are wrong according to you.

 

When Horus turned against the Emperor and led the galaxy into the most destructive civil war it had ever seen, the Ultramarines were engaged deep in the galactic south. Their very successes had carried them far from Horus' armies in the north-east and Guilliman did not receive word of the betrayal until the battle for Terra was under way. Gathering his Legion, Guilliman led his forces towards Terra, en route destroying a rebel fleet on its way to reinforce Horus

[bigaldo]

Because I don't care who is giving the orders, if they don't make sense, they should be questioned, at least for clarification. If some bloke told me I had to go and kill my brother and burn his planet, I'd be thinking "Isn't that a little extreme?", not "Grab yer torch an' pitchfork!!!." So Russ is either a) an idiot or :D seriously bloodthirsty/drunk enough to think killing his own brother is a good idea at a moments notice.

 

And its all made up mate, its a fantasy battle game :P I'm simply pointing out how suss the Smurf's conduct was - especially declaring Dorn a heretic. He of all people had proved his loyalty, even if the Imperial Palace was badly designed :cuss

 

I always got the distinct impression that Guilliman and friends, as well as the other Legions who arrived late, inexplicably took their sweet time.

[Gree]

And its all made up mate, its a fantasy battle game :P I'm simply pointing out how suss the Smurf's conduct was - especially declaring Dorn a heretic. He of all people had proved his loyalty, even if the Imperial Palace was badly designed :D

 

Dorn went off on a vengance crusade when the Imperium needed rebuilding and reorganization the most. I am not bashing Dorn or anything, I understand his reasons for going off on his vengance quest. But leaving to go off on his own was dereliction of duty at best.

 

I always got the distinct impression that Guilliman and friends, as well as the other Legions who arrived late, inexplicably took their sweet time.

You can get that impression, but however I myself would simply stick to what is actually written down. The only thing the Ultramarines IA articles implies is that they arrived speedily.

[BlackDragon]

I was quite disappointed with the Iron Hands in the HH novel. Gabriel Santar was disappointing as the first captain, he just wasn't Space Marine material. He was caught unawares when Ferrus and Fulgrim fight the first time round and got knocked out. Then when he fights Kaesoran (the EC terminator captain) on Istvan he had the chance to finish him, but instead decided to pause and look for a bit before being cut in half.

 

Ferrus was cool, but I was disappointed that he was finished off so easily by Fulgrim. His eagerness to fight caused his Iron Hands to get massacred when he decided to go charging off after Fulgrim on Istvan while Corax and Vulcan wanted to regroup and recover.

[Ragnar Lodbrok]

Because I don't care who is giving the orders, if they don't make sense, they should be questioned, at least for clarification. If some bloke told me I had to go and kill my brother and burn his planet, I'd be thinking "Isn't that a little extreme?", not "Grab yer torch an' pitchfork!!!." So Russ is either a) an idiot or :huh: seriously bloodthirsty/drunk enough to think killing his own brother is a good idea at a moments notice.

 

And its all made up mate, its a fantasy battle game :P I'm simply pointing out how suss the Smurf's conduct was - especially declaring Dorn a heretic. He of all people had proved his loyalty, even if the Imperial Palace was badly designed <_<

 

I always got the distinct impression that Guilliman and friends, as well as the other Legions who arrived late, inexplicably took their sweet time.

 

 

I used to think this way about Russ as well but then giving it more thought if I had been told that due to Magnus' witchcraft he had almost killed my father and caused Terra to be in danger I would have done the same. As far as Russ knew Magnus had purposefully attacked the Emperor psychically in order to accomplish something thus violating all the Treaties setup about his psyker powers in the first place. I imagine Russ figured Magnus was purposefully jeopardizing everything to prove a point.

[randian]

Because I don't care who is giving the orders, if they don't make sense, they should be questioned, at least for clarification. If some bloke told me I had to go and kill my brother and burn his planet, I'd be thinking "Isn't that a little extreme?", not "Grab yer torch an' pitchfork!!!."

That same question applies equally to the traitors themselves. None of it really makes sense as presented.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

igaldo Posted Today, 07:55 AM

Firstly, Russ, for not even stopping to think about it when Horus says "Nah Dad has changed his mind, cut Magnus into itty pieces for me" and so willingly turning on his own brother, thus destroying the only Legion with a real chance at foiling Lorgar's plans

 

Er, it's called loyalty. Russ trusted Horus, just as the Emperor did. Why would he have stopped to think first (without the benefit of hindsight)?

 

Yea, it is called loyalty.

I spent the last 4 years in college studying history, and its application.

 

The hardest part of its application was remember to judge the actions of the past in the context of the past. To judge history with a modern mindset put your knowledge in conflict with the standards and morals of that time period.

 

WLK

[bigaldo]

They taught you that? I spent all my high school years being taught that, then got to University and found that the academics like to judge the past by today's morals. Guess it makes it easier for them to act all liberal and superior. But I do see your point, it just kind of seems that Russ wasn't too bright in making that decision is all.

 

As for the Traitor Primarchs, for most of them you are correct that they didn't really question, but with guys like Angron and Perturabo who were so badly mistreated by the Emperor, I see a little more motivation for them than just "We were told to do thus." Fulgrim, Lorgar and Mortarion on the other hand... :cusss :huh:

 

On a side note, what is the general consensus on this board for the Alpha Legion and their motives? I'm told there are 2 versions now, though I'm yet to read Legion.

[randian]

As for the Traitor Primarchs, for most of them you are correct that they didn't really question, but with guys like Angron and Perturabo who were so badly mistreated by the Emperor, I see a little more motivation for them than just "We were told to do thus." Fulgrim, Lorgar and Mortarion on the other hand... :cusss :huh:

How was Perturabo mistreated? He was told to conduct his part of the Great Crusade in a way he didn't like, but that's not the same as being mistreated. Perturabo chose to nurse his resentment rather than resign. I guess he liked the authority and renown of his position more than he cared about his supposed principles.

 

As for Angron, the only real mistreatment occurred when they first met. Arguably, not removing the rage implant is mistreatment, of the "sin of omission" sort. After that, if anything the Emperor gave Angron entirely too much leeway in how he conducted war. Angron was never given a proper lesson in martial honor and discipline by the Emperor, so Angron grew to see and enjoy war as mere butchery. From there it is but a short hop to taking Khorne's offer of "keep doing what you're doing and I'll never restrain you, unlike that mean nasty Emperor".

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

They taught you that? I spent all my high school years being taught that, then got to University and found that the academics like to judge the past by today's morals. Guess it makes it easier for them to act all liberal and superior. But I do see your point, it just kind of seems that Russ wasn't too bright in making that decision is all.

 

As for the Traitor Primarchs, for most of them you are correct that they didn't really question, but with guys like Angron and Perturabo who were so badly mistreated by the Emperor, I see a little more motivation for them than just "We were told to do thus." Fulgrim, Lorgar and Mortarion on the other hand... :cusss :P

 

On a side note, what is the general consensus on this board for the Alpha Legion and their motives? I'm told there are 2 versions now, though I'm yet to read Legion.

 

naw, my high school years was spent learning history by rote, no deeper looks or intrepertation. sadly, some of my college was too. i did have 2 very good teachers, that taught me more in a semester than the rest did in my entire, too long college career.

 

and i got to agree with randian, perturabo wasnt mistreated by the emperor, but rather twisted by horus. but if perturabo had faith in the goals of the emperor, he would have accepted his duty. he wasnt the only primarch to garrison his marines...

 

WLK

[bigaldo]

Oh we have plenty of interpretation here in Aussie Universities. Unfortunately being mindlessly left-wing without properly analysing the situation is fashionable here. So we have "academics" who judge our past, for example treatment of Aborigines in the 1800s, by modern standards, because it gives them the opportunity to show how liberal and open-minded they are, and take the moral high ground. But thats off topic :P

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Oh we have plenty of interpretation here in Aussie Universities. Unfortunately being mindlessly left-wing without properly analysing the situation is fashionable here. So we have "academics" who judge our past, for example treatment of Aborigines in the 1800s, by modern standards, because it gives them the opportunity to show how liberal and open-minded they are, and take the moral high ground. But thats off topic :lol:

 

same here. i live in the Florida, USA, just north of the city of Jacksonville. This is apart of the "Bible Belt" of the US South, and we have our own history, sadly alot of it, that can be examined and seen in many different ways...

 

but not as off topic as you think, for isnt this topic the reading and interpretation of the written histories of the Primarchs? (okay, stretching it a bit :P )

 

WLK

[Terrible_Trygon]

Gulliman should have really got to Terra. Then he could have shouted "AUN’VA!", disintegrating Horus in the resulting sonic death wave.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Gulliman should have really got to Terra. Then he could have shouted "AUN’VA!", disintegrating Horus in the resulting sonic death wave.

 

love your sig on Gulliman's position during the Heresy and his future book release...

 

WLK

[bigaldo]

Do I smell a Dune reference? :)

[Terrible_Trygon]

No, that was Rise of the Tau reference. From something Gulliman did.

 

‘In the name of Aun’Va, you will all fall before me! AUN’VA!’

 

The word left his lips with force enough that the very air before him warped and distorted. World Eaters shattered beneath the sonic pressure of the assault, armour and bone alike compacting. Red rain was shaken into mist as the buffeting waves cleaved the air into two.

[bigaldo]

Ah, the whole killing word thing made me think of Fremen. After, this is a website entirely about Sardaukar, er I mean Space Marines, whom GW were blatantly inspired by in the 80s.

[Gree]

As for the Traitor Primarchs, for most of them you are correct that they didn't really question, but with guys like Angron and Perturabo who were so badly mistreated by the Emperor, I see a little more motivation for them than just "We were told to do thus." Fulgrim, Lorgar and Mortarion on the other hand... :cusss :D

How was Perturabo mistreated? He was told to conduct his part of the Great Crusade in a way he didn't like, but that's not the same as being mistreated. Perturabo chose to nurse his resentment rather than resign. I guess he liked the authority and renown of his position more than he cared about his supposed principles.

 

I don't think Primarchs can resign. Given that the Emperor essentially forced Angron to join him I don't think he would let a primarch hang up the bolter and retire to a civillian job.

[Octavulg]

the red is blood, they used the blood from there dead librarians to colour there armour to cement there worship of Khrone

 

And the brass? What's that, their melted fillings and bionic implants?

[shamen]

the red is blood, they used the blood from there dead librarians to colour there armour to cement there worship of Khrone

 

And the brass? What's that, their melted fillings and bionic implants?

 

I dont know, go find a world eater who aint insane and ask him. im dark angel not an insane bloody thursty nut job :P

[Tutteman]

Gulliman should have really got to Terra. Then he could have shouted "AUN’VA!", disintegrating Horus in the resulting sonic death wave.

 

love your sig on Gulliman's position during the Heresy and his future book release...

 

WLK

 

Oh I like the counter quote people use. It goes something like this and you may have seen it.

 

"Sure, being at the Siege of the Imperial Palace looks good on your CV, but not as good as not being there because you were being sent halfway across the Galaxy to make sure you couldn't be there"

And obviously I'm disappointed in all you traitors out there. Now you've all been very naughty and need to say sorry... ;)

[shamen]

If you ask me, everyone who insults the ultra-smurfs should say sorry :D , NOT :) LMAO . they got there bums handed to them by a small group of religious fruit loops, and then instead of rushing straight back to help out dad and the fellow brothers in arms as ordered. they decide to sit back go slow and take the scenic route back, and then arrive to late to do bugger all and come up with the saddest excuse ever. "sorry we were late but we just saved you lot from reinforcement coming this way, now bow down to our primarch and do as he says or we will brand you a heretic like the others!"

 

Now im not biased in anyway :rolleyes: , but as far as im concerned if you have the largest legion ever (a fact the smurfs go on about to this day) and you cant even smack a few word bearers around the head, then there is something wrong. but then to turn round and say "oh it aint "our" fault we were late, there was these horrid traitor reinforcement and we jumped them so it was there fault, and then our dog ate our map home, blah, blah, obey the codex, blah, blah, then you are either the Emperors pet, or youve got alot of explaining to do.

 

can all ultra-smurfs just admit it once and for all, you took your time cos you were scared that your shiny blue armour would get dented. you shameless bunch of preening muppets

[bigaldo]

Shamen... will you marry me? :rolleyes:

 

And agreed, I'm pretty sure Perturabo would have been set upon by one of the other Legions if he just tried to quit, because its unlikely his Legion would have been too co-operative if he decided he wanted out and the Emperor wanted to retain their services. The Big E couldn't allow that kind of dissent, or the whole Crusade would have disintegrated a lot earlier than the Heresy. Half the Primarchs would still be on their home-worlds just hangin' out. It strikes me as odd that for someone who is such a supposedly powerful pysker, not to mention apparent "master psychologist", he had no inkling that "Hey, Perturabo might be pissed that I'm putting him almost soley on garrison duty or through meat grinders, and hey, I bet Angron isn't annoyed about me betraying his slave-brothers on the eve of battle, hell naw!"

[Gree]

If you ask me, everyone who insults the ultra-smurfs should say sorry :P , NOT :devil: LMAO . they got there bums handed to them by a small group of religious fruit loops,

 

Actually no, it was about half the Word Bearers legion and onyl a small part of the Ultramarines where assembled at Calth and Macragge, the rest where on other worlds. The Word Bearers also employed Virus weapons, the Ultramarines still won.

 

Upon its surface, the Fourth company fought the Word Bearers to a standstill. The traitors held superiority in numbers, weaponry, and brutality, but the Ultramarines would never give in. As driven as the warriors of Lord Kor Phaeron were, they could not dislodge the Ultramarines, many of whom had once called the planet home.

 

That was from the Word Bearers IA and the Ultramarines 4th Company article in Inferno. Please read the relevant fluff in part before you make such claims.

 

and then instead of rushing straight back to help out dad and the fellow brothers in arms as ordered. they decide to sit back go slow and take the scenic route back, and then arrive to late to do bugger all and come up with the saddest excuse ever. "sorry we were late but we just saved you lot from reinforcement coming this way, now bow down to our primarch and do as he says or we will brand you a heretic like the others!"

 

When you find a peice of fluff that actually says that I would be inclined to discuss it with you. However until then I will go with what GW actually said.

 

Now im not biased in anyway :) , but as far as im concerned if you have the largest legion ever (a fact the smurfs go on about to this day) and you cant even smack a few word bearers around the head, then there is something wrong

 

Again, not all the legion was present at Calth, you are ignoring the context.

 

but then to turn round and say "oh it aint "our" fault we were late, there was these horrid traitor reinforcement and we jumped them so it was there fault, and then our dog ate our map home, blah, blah, obey the codex, blah, blah, then you are either the Emperors pet, or youve got alot of explaining to do.

 

Yes, because space travel in 40k is always safe, fast and reliable, expecially when the galaxy is infested with traitors that set you up so that you can't fight. Give me a break, I'll take what GW actually wrote over fan-ranting with nothing to back it up.

 

can all ultra-smurfs just admit it once and for all, you took your time cos you were scared that your shiny blue armour would get dented. you shameless bunch of preening muppets

 

Or not, It's pretty obvious to anyone who actually reads the relevant articles that the Ultramarines hurried back as soon as they could.

[Captain Tezdal]

Shamen... will you marry me? :(

 

And agreed, I'm pretty sure Perturabo would have been set upon by one of the other Legions if he just tried to quit, because its unlikely his Legion would have been too co-operative if he decided he wanted out and the Emperor wanted to retain their services. The Big E couldn't allow that kind of dissent, or the whole Crusade would have disintegrated a lot earlier than the Heresy. Half the Primarchs would still be on their home-worlds just hangin' out. It strikes me as odd that for someone who is such a supposedly powerful pysker, not to mention apparent "master psychologist", he had no inkling that "Hey, Perturabo might be pissed that I'm putting him almost soley on garrison duty or through meat grinders, and hey, I bet Angron isn't annoyed about me betraying his slave-brothers on the eve of battle, hell naw!"

 

 

unless the big E had the Heresy planned.....struck down, worshipped, ready to become a full fledged warp god......but nooo...stupid Lords of Terra had to hook him up to the Golden throne so he wouldnt be able to be reborn.