The Emperor's Champion Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 This is taken from Lexicanum and in their acknowledgments say this piece came from Index Astartes II. Rogal Dorn died fighting on board a Chaos ship, after attacking a Black Crusade fleet with a vastly outnumbered force. Seeing the importance of attacking the enemy fleet while they were still preparing he relied on hit-and-run attacks until his reinforcements could arrive. Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter. And his scrimshawed skeleton (minus the one hand) is encased in amber and stored in a shrine on Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Tigris Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I am disappointed in no primarch really. People say Russ but the fact remains that he went to Prospero, following his orders, broke the back of Magnus the Red over his knee, went back, kicked the Alpha Legion out of his home, and was completely awesome the whole time. People always pick Johnson as well (as a DA player I'm a bit distressed by this) but people don't realize it wasn't his fault half of his legion fell (not quite anyway) and when he got back to Caliban he owned the battle for his home planet, the cause justified the means. Fulgrim wasn't a disappointment because he was an amazing warrior, he was brilliant, a bit conceited, and he was possessed, he didn't fall on his own will like some of the other primarchs (hint hint Lorgar) Magnus the Red was a hero, trying only to help his father see his favorite son's betrayal. Another one people seem to overlook is Horus was also manipulated. He fell to chaos in a moment of weakness and the treachery of the Word Bearers (big surprise, stupid Lorgar) I could go on. There are many reason why each Primarch was a hero or at least not a disappointment. But I'm afraid I must prepare for an encounter with my brother space wolves. *edit* Aha, realizing the topic after reading so many primarch comments. The legion that disappointed me the most was my own, the Dark Angels. We tore ourselves apart and destroyed our own planet before half of the legion got pulled into the warp and scattered throughout time. Ya, we messed up big time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Every Traitor Legion dissappointed me equally as they were weak-willed cowardly traitors. If you look at their actions and the sneaking around and hiding things from their own brother marines in their own or other Legions tells you that they knoew what they were doing was wrong and yet still being too weak to resist being able to do it. When they finally did turn they did not even have the guts to stand-up and face the Loyal Marines in their own Legions, the Loyalist Legions, or their Brother Primarchs or the Emperor in a straight-up fight, until after they had betrayed and used cowardly sneak attacks to decimate the Space Marines and other Loyalist Forces. The fact that in the end they got spanked and sent whining back to their disgusting masters like the curs they had turned into only proves what weak dogs they were and remain. While as a loyalist loyalist...okay plain loyalist , i can only agree with your assesment of the cowards who turned...then again war isn't suppose to be fair :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 What's this obsession the Primarchs seem to have with snapping the backs of giant red things over their knees??? First Sanguinius and the Blood thirster and now Russ and Magnus??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 must be in basic primarch training manual 1, run into battle like a lunatic. 2, pick the biggest red thing you can see. 3, pick it up and break its back. 4, battle won, go for a beer with the lads and tell the story til your drunker than space wolf in a brewery seems a battle winning formula to me IMHO pmsl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Tigris Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 must be in basic primarch training manual 1, run into battle like a lunatic. 2, pick the biggest red thing you can see. 3, pick it up and break its back. 4, battle won, go for a beer with the lads and tell the story til your drunker than space wolf in a brewery seems a battle winning formula to me IMHO pmsl Awesome! I'm totally quoting you =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson Cartel Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 must be in basic primarch training manual 1, run into battle like a lunatic. 2, pick the biggest red thing you can see. 3, pick it up and break its back. 4, battle won, go for a beer with the lads and tell the story til your drunker than space wolf in a brewery seems a battle winning formula to me IMHO pmsl Sig'd mate! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badhaggis Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 i really dont think the hh was the iron warriors fault, if anything they are the least chaotic chaos force, tend not to use deamons, dont worship the dark gods, only occasionally use thier power. id rather have them in charge than horus's clone. in hh the word bearers have got the short end of the stick. the Emperors children annoyed me (damn fulgrim) but i hate the death guard so i cant choose which is worse. any views on the titian legios and imperial army regiments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 i really dont think the hh was the iron warriors fault, if anything they are the least chaotic chaos force, tend not to use deamons, dont worship the dark gods, only occasionally use thier power. id rather have them in charge than horus's clone. in hh the word bearers have got the short end of the stick. the Emperors children annoyed me (damn fulgrim) but i hate the death guard so i cant choose which is worse. any views on the titian legios and imperial army regiments? Nobody is sayin the heresy was any one legions fault as a whole, but it was certain individuals with under hand motives (kor pheron and your boyfriend erebus im looking at you.) as for the imperial army they just blindly followed the primarch they we assigned to weather traitor or loyalist, i mean i doubt some ordinary soldier is going to argue with a marine let alone a primarch do you. and the titan legions were sort of following either the fabricator genral or his successor which sort of takes away any disappointment anyone should have for them. at the end of the day, titan legions and imperial army were blindly following orders. kor pheron, erebus and the word bearers were responsible for planting the seeds of the heresy. so to change my previous opinion i find lorgar and the word bearers the most dissapointing not cos they turned traitor on the flimsiest of reasons, but because they never saw the rot within there ranks in time to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge The Weak Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 After just reading 'Fulgrim' again I am going to say Ferrus yet again. Him and the Iron Hands completely failed at showing those girlie Emperors fluffbags who is boss. Really though their own First captain nearly dies, comes back even stronger in robotica form and still can't kill fook all. Waste of a legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 After just reading 'Fulgrim' again I am going to say Ferrus yet again. Him and the Iron Hands completely failed at showing those girlie Emperors fluffbags who is boss. Really though their own First captain nearly dies, comes back even stronger in robotica form and still can't kill fook all. Waste of a legion. your forgetting one small point up to that point in the crusade/heresy the iron hands, salamanders and raven guard had never had to fight there brother marines. the drop site massacre was the very first time legion engaged legion in hostile warfare, every marine was techically equal to each other in combat. compared to marine vs alien or marine vs human rebel which would be a walk in the park, this was more a case of 30,000 near indestructable genetically superior killing machines against 40,000 equal indestructable killing machines. so IMHO ferrus's only real mistake is that he treated the fight against the traitors like he would of done a rebel army of humans or an army of aliens, instead of using his brains and realising he shouldnt just go charging in all guns blazing. and it was this small mistake that ended up messing things up, its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Every Traitor Legion dissappointed me equally as they were weak-willed cowardly traitors. If you look at their actions and the sneaking around and hiding things from their own brother marines in their own or other Legions tells you that they knoew what they were doing was wrong and yet still being too weak to resist being able to do it. When they finally did turn they did not even have the guts to stand-up and face the Loyal Marines in their own Legions, the Loyalist Legions, or their Brother Primarchs or the Emperor in a straight-up fight, until after they had betrayed and used cowardly sneak attacks to decimate the Space Marines and other Loyalist Forces. The fact that in the end they got spanked and sent whining back to their disgusting masters like the curs they had turned into only proves what weak dogs they were and remain. Haha! I like your attitude! [Gives a warrior's salute] Angron wasnt really a traitor.......the Big E betrayed him first, and then pawned him off on the War Hounds cause he couldn't deal with em, but besides him and Magnus, most of the Primarchs seem to just turned traitor "cuz Horus is doing it, Woot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Night Haunter was evil Gollum-Joker-Batman long before Chaos had anything to do with it. Lorgar went Chaos before Horus. Fulgrim was possessed by a demon weapon. So then if you exclude Horus, Magnus and Angron, only 3 Legions can be said to have turned to Chaos "cuz Horus is doing it, Woot". And even then, Perturabo was a grim and jealous furious sort of dude with some issues against some Imperial stuff. Alpharius and Omegon had a lot of weirdness and apparently aren't technically Chaos.... Mortarion is the only one whose reason for turning seems to be utterly random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well Mortarion was especially close to Horus. Presumably the Warmaster had been in extensive dialogue with him about the reasons why he needed to turn traitor, although unfortunately we haven't really been privy to any of it! The Horus Heresy series needs: A book actually explaining the internal turmoil of Horus and why he went against his father. So far it reads far too much like, 'a wizard did it'. False Gods touched on Horus being upset that the Imperium he had fought so hard for was being turned over to lackies - the opening speech from Collected Visions 2 written by Alan Merrett needs to be given much more of an airing than its received so far, because at the moment the Heresy comes accross far too much as the collected bad guys from various comic books all going against the Imperium for their own reasons. IMO it needs to be described as an alternative vision for the Imperium by Horus, even if it comes accross and ultimately turns out to be the wrong one. I once read that the core concept of the Heresy was built on Milton's premise of 'Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven', but we have seen very little of that ideology so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 They're all pretty disappointing. Where the legion doesn't disappoint, the Primarch does, and vice versa. Note that most of the below is at least a little sarcastic. Except the bit about red color schemes. The Dark Angels are lead by a narcissistic twit with delusions of grandeur and the charisma of a haddock. They deal with this through schism, annihilate their own home world, and then decide to cover it up by hunting down their Fallen brothers for the rest of time - whatever they have to sacrifice to do so. In short, they keep sacrificing their greater obligations for their personal honor - first by sending marines back to Caliban, then by bombarding Caliban, then by cheerfully dropping whatever they're doing to hunt down the Fallen. The Emperor's Children now have the most pathetic "turned to Chaos" story ever (oh, it was a daemon weapon. I miss the days of exquisite torture - at least that allowed the mind to speculate wildly). Perfect =/= slavish obedience to hierarchy, and it would have been far more interesting watching them try to justify their new twistedness and horror as perfection while the gap grows ever larger. The Iron Warriors actually don't disappoint me much. However, they evidently couldn't stand up to the battered remnants of other legions and the Ultramarines. The Word Bearers stood up to the Ultramarines! The Word Bearers! They were probably praying half the time! Shape up, dammit. The White Scars - Jaghatai Khan should have a much larger role in events than he does. To be honest, much like the Iron Warriors, they're not that disappointing - they disappoint only in their failure to excel. Space Wolves - oh look. They drink a lot. More specifically - what's with the whole Thousand Sons thing, eh? Eh? Wanna explain that one to the class? Imperial Fists - The Soul Drinkers. Nuff said. Night Lords - Did it ever occur to you to talk to the Emperor about these visions, Mr Kurze? Or to check, occasionally, how your home world was doing? Or to install a large, artificial light source there? Of course not, because you're too busy emulating Christian Bale. Blood Angels - Ah, right, kill the mutants because they're horrible. But leave the winged mutant alone because he's pretty (and bigger than us). Hypocrites. Iron Hands - Oh, look, we wear black. How original. And our sole contribution to the Heresy is to get annihilated in a premature attack. Lovely. World Eaters - Should we keep our beautiful blue and white colors, or go for the oh-so-original red? Tough call. Let's go with the dull route. Ultramarines - Is the wake of our father's death the time to force our Primarch's pet project on our fellow Legions? Damn right! And we'd better call Dorn a traitor, too, just to make sure. Death Guard - Hmmm. Let's totally give in to the being that ravaged us with horrible plagues! Thousand Sons - What could be wrong with toying with arcane forces that can rip out your mind? I mean, there's no danger there, right? Black Legion - Right, Horus was weak. That's why he embodied the power of the Chaos Gods, besieged Terra, killed Sanguinius, nearly killed the Primarch, and damaged the Imperium so badly it still hasn't entirely recovered. Word Bearers - Bloody religious fanatics, with their fanaticing. And more red! Dammit. Salamanders - The logical thing to do is, after all, to engage the traitor legions on the ground. Especially after the Iron Hands spoil any hope of a surprise assault and get them all ready... Raven Guard - See above, but with added emo. Alpha Legion - Mutter mutter...twin primarchs...mutter mutter...Eldar...mutter mutter...load of revisionist overly-credulous hogwash...mutter mutter...stupid Black Library. In conclusion, they're all terribly incompetent, not very bright, and ought to have been replaced by battle robots. Not painted red. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 a few small corrections for the above muppet: Dark Angels: the lion wasnt a narcissist cos he didnt love himself in an erotic way, i mean come on could you see him looking in the mirror every day saying to himself "wow im a bloody great looking guy today." he was to busy planning battles and beating the hell out of big red things. and his delusions of granduer werent for himself but the imperium as whole. Iron Warriors: Anyone remember who pounded the Imperial palace with giant cannon's given by a certain man in black power armour, enough said :P White Scars: So who took and held one of the biggest space port on terra for nearly most of the siege, id call that excelling above and beyond the call of duty Iron Hands, Salamanders, and Raven Guard: Not there fault seeing as they had never fought other marines before, so i cant really fault there tactics. but they could of given it abit more thought, instead of rushing in making custers last stand a playground fight lol World Eaters: whould you go against Khorne if he told you change that girlie blue and white to blood red and brass, nope didnt think so :) and now the only thing i agree with: Word Bearers: yeah why did they change there bloody armour red - think they were jealous of the world eaters - red armour dont make you more insane no matter what khorne tells you in you sleep!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 shamen Posted Today, 11:15 AM a few small corrections for the above muppet: Er . . . Octavulg Posted Today, 02:07 AM Note that most of the below is at least a little sarcastic. Except the bit about red color schemes. Who's the more fool, the fool or the fool who follows him? ^_^ On another note, I suspect the BL authors need to take some advice from the Evil Overlord List, specifically this: "Another of my closest advisors will be a prolific hack novelist. If any part of my Master Plan begins to resemble any of his work, it will be disregarded." It's not that Horus' fall was badly done, or indeed any of the other Primarchs. It just probably falls foul of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Caverstein Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Every Traitor Legion dissappointed me equally as they were weak-willed cowardly traitors. If you look at their actions and the sneaking around and hiding things from their own brother marines in their own or other Legions tells you that they knoew what they were doing was wrong and yet still being too weak to resist being able to do it. When they finally did turn they did not even have the guts to stand-up and face the Loyal Marines in their own Legions, the Loyalist Legions, or their Brother Primarchs or the Emperor in a straight-up fight, until after they had betrayed and used cowardly sneak attacks to decimate the Space Marines and other Loyalist Forces. The fact that in the end they got spanked and sent whining back to their disgusting masters like the curs they had turned into only proves what weak dogs they were and remain. Haha! I like your attitude! [Gives a warrior's salute] Angron wasnt really a traitor.......the Big E betrayed him first, and then pawned him off on the War Hounds cause he couldn't deal with em, but besides him and Magnus, most of the Primarchs seem to just turned traitor "cuz Horus is doing it, Woot" QUOTED FOR THE THRUTH It is all Horus fault for being so awsome and popular pre heresy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Dark Angels: the lion wasnt a narcissist cos he didnt love himself in an erotic way, i mean come on could you see him looking in the mirror every day saying to himself "wow im a bloody great looking guy today." Yes. Yes I could see that. Probably with a comb, and him doing the whole hair flick thing. he was to busy planning battles and beating the hell out of big red things. and his delusions of granduer werent for himself but the imperium as whole. Eh. He destroys his entire home world because there's some traitor marines on it who disagree with him. The only other Primarchs who destroy their home world are traitors. I mean, Kurze had just as much motivation to do so (arguably more). And yet Kurze doing it is a sign that he's gone completely crazy. But when Jonson does it it's evidently OK. Iron Warriors: Anyone remember who pounded the Imperial palace with giant cannon's given by a certain man in black power armour, enough said whistlingW.gif So you're saying they made it all the way to Terra, and still couldn't close the deal? White Scars: So who took and held one of the biggest space port on terra for nearly most of the siege, id call that excelling above and beyond the call of duty And for that, got a one line mention in things, became Guilliman's yes-men and otherwise don't show up again for the rest of the Heresy. The Blood Angels get more press. Iron Hands, Salamanders, and Raven Guard: Not there fault seeing as they had never fought other marines before, so i cant really fault there tactics. but they could of given it abit more thought, instead of rushing in making custers last stand a playground fight lol I kinda wonder whether Horus' success is one of those relative things. It's not that he's smart, it's that all other Imperial commanders are that dumb...it'd explain the whole Abaddon thing. World Eaters: whould you go against Khorne if he told you change that girlie blue and white to blood red and brass, nope didnt think so msn-wink.gif Girlie blue and white? The blue and white shows the blood better! Nobody's gonna be scared by some guy in red armor. Some guy in armor that's red because it's covered in blood? That's scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Girlie blue and white? The blue and white shows the blood better! Nobody's gonna be scared by some guy in red armor. Some guy in armor that's red because it's covered in blood? That's scary. the red is blood, they used the blood from there dead librarians to colour there armour to cement there worship of Khrone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Of course not, because you're too busy emulating Christian Bale. Not too familiar with Frank Miller's Batman then, I suppose? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigaldo Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Firstly, Russ, for not even stopping to think about it when Horus says "Nah Dad has changed his mind, cut Magnus into itty pieces for me" and so willingly turning on his own brother, thus destroying the only Legion with a real chance at foiling Lorgar's plans And second, Guilliman, for sitting there after beating Kor Phaeron thinking "If I stall a little longer, Dad will get offed and I'll be able to come back and boss my brothers around like the meglomaniacal :cuss that I am, and threaten to start another civil war if they don't do what I say." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamen Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 See i knew i wasnt the only person who thought rowboat and the ultra-smurfs were upto something, also why did he let the large word bearers force escape mostly unharmed and why didnt he follow them to terra. would have been there in enough time to kick some traitor butt then home by breakfast, guess he was chicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 So we are accepting made up stuff now? I am pretty disappointed in Fulgrim because how he got wrestled down by a gretchin in one of his battles. That is pretty weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 igaldo Posted Today, 07:55 AM Firstly, Russ, for not even stopping to think about it when Horus says "Nah Dad has changed his mind, cut Magnus into itty pieces for me" and so willingly turning on his own brother, thus destroying the only Legion with a real chance at foiling Lorgar's plans Er, it's called loyalty. Russ trusted Horus, just as the Emperor did. Why would he have stopped to think first (without the benefit of hindsight)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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