New HH novel in the pipeline "The First Heretic"

[Legio Draconis]

I always knew Robbie G was a :lol: :D

[Piousservant]

The first draft was less successful.

 

"The last hundred years of your life have been a lie, you lead the only Legion ever to fail me, and you are the only son to disappoint me. Go back and restart over a century of work over dozens of planets. By the way, you're the only primarch who is totally wrong about everything they believe in. Even the ones who were raised in the wilderness, pretend to be animals, or are clinically insane - those guys are actually righter than you are. I know you actually made your world a place of peace and enlightenment through religion, and even Angron couldn't bring his own homeworld to compliance, but he's still better and less of a failure than you. And I know I've been okay with your work for the last 100 years, but I've changed my mind suddenly, and felt the need to humiliate you about it. Hey, I brought Robby G. You like Robby G, right? You two should be close. He's a total success, and you're a complete failure. Opposites attract, yeah? Anyway, here's your brother."

 

"Hi, Lorgar," said Guilliman. "I'm here to show you how to live your life because you apparently can't do it without a babysitter."

 

Lorgar was already reaching for the phone.

 

"Are you calling Chaos?" The Emperor frowned. "Don't be calling Chaos, Lorgar. Long-distance charges, man."

 

But Lorgar wouldn't listen.

 

"Hello?" he asked. "Is that Chaos?"

 

"AAAARRGHRHGGHGGHGH. EVERY MOMENT IS WRATH AND AGONY."

 

"Khorne? Is that you?"

 

"BLOOD FOR THE... FOR ME."

 

"That's tremendous. Can you put Tzeentch on?"

 

 

I have to admit, I kinda wish that the book was actually like that... :D

 

But I agree with Alecto, I thought the extract on your blog was good and Logar as I would have imagined. And there just isn't much you can do for numpties who will call it "emo" - aside from compulsary sterilisation. But I believe that's frowned upon these days.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The first draft was less successful.

 

"The last hundred years of your life have been a lie, you lead the only Legion ever to fail me, and you are the only son to disappoint me. Go back and restart over a century of work over dozens of planets. By the way, you're the only primarch who is totally wrong about everything they believe in. Even the ones who were raised in the wilderness, pretend to be animals, or are clinically insane - those guys are actually righter than you are. I know you actually made your world a place of peace and enlightenment through religion, and even Angron couldn't bring his own homeworld to compliance, but he's still better and less of a failure than you. And I know I've been okay with your work for the last 100 years, but I've changed my mind suddenly, and felt the need to humiliate you about it. Hey, I brought Robby G. You like Robby G, right? You two should be close. He's a total success, and you're a complete failure. Opposites attract, yeah? Anyway, here's your brother."

 

"Hi, Lorgar," said Guilliman. "I'm here to show you how to live your life because you apparently can't do it without a babysitter."

 

Lorgar was already reaching for the phone.

 

"Are you calling Chaos?" The Emperor frowned. "Don't be calling Chaos, Lorgar. Long-distance charges, man."

 

But Lorgar wouldn't listen.

 

"Hello?" he asked. "Is that Chaos?"

 

"AAAARRGHRHGGHGGHGH. EVERY MOMENT IS WRATH AND AGONY."

 

"Khorne? Is that you?"

 

"BLOOD FOR THE... FOR ME."

 

"That's tremendous. Can you put Tzeentch on?"

 

 

Can't see why that draft was unsuccessful. Hell, I'd buy that book if it was written! Seems like a totally synchronous addition to the 40k canon. :D

 

You do adress one fact that I don't think I've seen brought up about the Emperor's treatment of Lorgar discussed anywhere else, in that even the "wild" Primarchs, and even Angron (who didn't pacify his own world. Well, not that we know of), they didn't deserve the same treatment that Lorgar did. He was the only Primarch to have been shamed like that. At least with Magnus he had the decency to make it appear to be tackling a larger issue. Instead, Lorgar just got told to shut up and do what Guilliman does.

And even in the case of Magnus/Night Haunter, the Emperor was willing to leave them until half the Primarchs were baying for their blood (literally, in Russ' case). Lorgar gets his complaint out of the blue, with no other Primarchs taking exception, but maybe your book changes that, I don't know.

 

To sum up, yet another reason why the Emperor was a jerk for the way he treated Lorgar. Heh, as if we needed another...

[arisen]

I'm really looking forward to this, even moreso after reading the extract. I'm really anxious to see how the Word Bearers' corruption got to where it did. I'll be going to Games Day UK this year where I'll hopefully be picking up a copy (will you be signing there ADB?).

 

I really like ADB's writing style (the occasional swearing here and there really adds to the atmosphere, e.g. the navigator's single word reaction to the night lords' landing on the meteor at the start of soul hunter), and even though he's only written 3 BL books so far, I've enjoyed each and every one of them a lot.

 

Even though it's still just a draft, I'd like to point out a small spelling error; better to fix it now, then having to do it afterwards I'd say :lol: : Guilliman's rise was slow ... (I'm guessing that's because his ego weighs a ton :D )

[A D-B]

I'm really looking forward to this, even moreso after reading the extract. I'm really anxious to see how the Word Bearers' corruption got to where it did. I'll be going to Games Day UK this year where I'll hopefully be picking up a copy (will you be signing there ADB?).

 

I really like ADB's writing style (the occasional swearing here and there really adds to the atmosphere, e.g. the navigator's single word reaction to the night lords' landing on the meteor at the start of soul hunter), and even though he's only written 3 BL books so far, I've enjoyed each and every one of them a lot.

 

Even though it's still just a draft, I'd like to point out a small spelling error; better to fix it now, then having to do it afterwards I'd say :) : Guilliman rise's was slow ... (I'm guessing that's because his ego weighs a ton :D )

 

Ha, thanks for the typo catch, dude. Owe you for that one.

[arisen]

worst thing is, I mistyped it myself after copy-pasting to make it italic and bold :D . "Guilliman's rise" is more like it :) .

[Walter Payton]

"The last hundred years of your life have been a lie, you lead the only Legion ever to fail me, and you are the only son to disappoint me. Go back and restart over a century of work over dozens of planets. By the way, you're the only primarch who is totally wrong about everything they believe in. Even the ones who were raised in the wilderness, pretend to be animals, or are clinically insane - those guys are actually righter than you are. I know you actually made your world a place of peace and enlightenment through religion, and even Angron couldn't bring his own homeworld to compliance, but he's still better and less of a failure than you. And I know I've been okay with your work for the last 100 years, but I've changed my mind suddenly, and felt the need to humiliate you about it. Hey, I brought Robby G. You like Robby G, right? You two should be close. He's a total success, and you're a complete failure. Opposites attract, yeah? Anyway, here's your brother."

 

"Hi, Lorgar," said Guilliman. "I'm here to show you how to live your life because you apparently can't do it without a babysitter."

 

Lorgar was already reaching for the phone.

 

"Are you calling Chaos?" The Emperor frowned. "Don't be calling Chaos, Lorgar. Long-distance charges, man."

 

But Lorgar wouldn't listen.

 

"Hello?" he asked. "Is that Chaos?"

 

"AAAARRGHRHGGHGGHGH. EVERY MOMENT IS WRATH AND AGONY."

 

"Khorne? Is that you?"

 

"BLOOD FOR THE... FOR ME."

 

"That's tremendous. Can you put Tzeentch on?"

 

The sad thing is, that's how it has been presented in the fluff up until now.

[Ju'kosian]

Hmmm, I wonder if the Warmonger from the WB series shall make an appearence as he is said to have been a captain during the Heresy. Could be interesting to see who he is.

 

I think it's Sol Talgron, in the short story in 'tales of heresy', he's called 'warmonger' by that priest.

 

Looking forward to this novel 'first heretic"

Altough I think it's Khor phaeron and not Erebus who introduced Lorgar into chaos.

I thinik there's a mention of it in their Index astartes article.

[Yogi]

"BLOOD FOR THE... FOR ME."

 

That was great.

 

Man I'm still a fanboy.. back to the pain glove.

[Memnoch]

That excerpt is pretty damn cool.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The excerpt is brilliant, but beware, the Ultramarine players will complain about how you portrayed Guilliman, you portrayed him as a guy who was genrally was emotionless, but loved picking on his brothers... it's spot on! Logar does make a good case, will you be signing at Games day, if so, then I may go, the reported rules change seem to have ruined Games day so the Black liberary anf forge world stuff will be the only interesting stuff there, and I like signed books.

[Ashe Darke]

Well this is written from Lorgar, or another Word Bearer's perspective so it might be tainted with their view of him rather than what actually happened.

[Pcm979]

A D-B, if this book does well I have an idea for a sequel. It's called "The Second Heretic". Call me.

[Legatus]

you portrayed him as a guy who was genrally was emotionless, but loved picking on his brothers... it's spot on!

I feared that would be the majority reaction. :lol: I had hoped that Guilliman would not be presented in a negative light, but I guess it is hard not to if you want to give the protagonist hating him some justification (see Index Astartes Alpha Legion). I personally would still think that it was merely Lorgar's own bias that made him see maliciousness in Guilliman, but I did not really have any hope that the majority of readers would see it as anything other than proof of a negative character trait of Guilliman.

[Hrvat]

I enjojed the extract.

 

I can say that I didn't like the way Guilliman subtly proded Logar knowing it would infuriate him further nor did I have any sypathy for Logar.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

you portrayed him as a guy who was genrally was emotionless, but loved picking on his brothers... it's spot on!

I feared that would be the majority reaction. :) I had hoped that Guilliman would not be presented in a negative light, but I guess it is hard not to if you want to give the protagonist hating him some justification (see Index Astartes Alpha Legion). I personally would still think that it was merely Lorgar's own bias that made him see maliciousness in Guilliman, but I did not really have any hope that the majority of readers would see it as anything other than proof of a negative character trait of Guilliman.

 

Yes, because we all KNOW that Guilliman cannot have a negative characetr trait...

 

i wonder whats sillier, the amount of people that hate Guilliman, or the amount of people who think he has no "negative character traits".

I dont see him as being a terrible being like many nonUltramarines, but there was a non-verbal dig on Lorgrar in the extract, as brothers are bound to do.

 

WLK

[Legatus]

i wonder whats sillier, the amount of people that hate Guilliman, or the amount of people who think he has no "negative character traits".

And what would be the negative character traits of, say, Sanguinius, Vulkan or Khan? Are Corax and Ferrus Manus generally said to have such a trait? The background generally does not describe Guilliman with one, though a lot of people apparently feel that it would be too good to be true (unless it was the Angel, he's just perfect), so his motives for all of his deeds must have been in some way selfish.

[A D-B]

I just wanted to weigh in with my thoughts, here. I waited a while because they're no more or less valid than anyone else's, and I didn't want to give the wrong idea that "This Is How It Is" (by Aaron, age 29).

 

There's a difference in writing between clarity and simplistic prose. The fact people attribute so many varied demeanours and emotions in Lorgar and Guilliman here is, as far as I see it, pretty much perfect. Decent fiction should be open to interpretation; decent writing should show you something, take you there, and give you the information to make up your own mind about what's happening. It shows, it doesn't tell, and telling is something 40K fiction (and all fiction, actually) can suffer from. There's no subtlety to it - no nuance - and it can read like a dry battle report or a White Dwarf article.

 

With beings as emotive and complex as the primarchs, it's not as simple as just saying "Guilliman was feeling this". That may be what some fans who read this purely for the facts are after, but that's pretty terrible writing, and does an injustice to the setting as well as most readers. It's also very, very boring. People don't need to be told what they're seeing. People like to see things and make up their own minds; it's what separates all the writers I like from the ones I put up with. I like to see a scene and be made to think about it by decent writing. I like to do a little brainwork.

 

Despite the many reactions people are getting from this (and I've now seen about 150 or so, over various places), the overriding responses are:

 

1. Sympathy (or pity) for Lorgar, even though he's overemotional and appears to be on the edge of losing control.

 

2. Respect for Guilliman keeping his temper, whether he's making a few subtle cracks at Lorgar's expense or not.

 

Ultimately, the language used is careful not to simply state: "He felt this". This is a scene (among a few chapters) where that level of simplistic and objective interpretation would only harm the damn thing. If you believe Guilliman is baiting Lorgar, then that's fine. If you believe Guilliman carries himself with weary dignity, merely wishing to be done with this, then that's killer, too. But I was very, very careful not to state it, either way. Everything that says Guilliman is being a tool comes from Lorgar's own perception - his own words, even. There's no specific description saying Guilliman was being petty, it's all down to interpretation from what's happening in the scene, with descriptive clues and resonant possibilities. That's key, because that makes "But this novel is from the Word Bearers' point of view" actually incorrect. This novel is about the Word Bearers, and Lorgar sees what Lorgar sees. None of the neutral description damns or exalts any of them. It's down to interpretation of the details shown.

 

Which, I reckon, is how it should definitely be.

 

Jesus Christ. I apologise if that reads like an extremely tedious Director's Commentary. I'll spare us all that in the future.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I think I finally realized why I like your books so much ADB. I never noticed the difference in writing style as compared to other marine books/40k fluff.

 

I personally think that ya, Roboute is a bit smug about the whole affair and is happy that Lorgar got rebuked. Then again, Lorgar is overreacting a bit but who can blame him? Its faults on both sides and thats what I love about alot of the traitor Legion fluff during the Heresy.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

This novel is about the Word Bearers, and Lorgar sees what Lorgar sees. None of the neutral description damns or exalts any of them. It's down to interpretation of the details shown.

Which, I reckon, is how it should definitely be.

Jesus Christ. I apologise if that reads like an extremely tedious Director's Commentary. I'll spare us all that in the future.

 

Actually, it is helpful to have somewhat of a primer from the author. I don't think you've rail-roaded us in sharing this point of perspective either.

You've got to remember (as if you didn't) that you are writing for people just entering double digits to old blokes. People who didn't finish high school to university alumni.

So when someone with a narrow window starts a post to tell us how wrong A D-B is on Book X, we could all have been saved from someone's passionate diatribe with a primer like this.

Not that I dislike the discussion, but when we are told how silly an author is, if this kind of primer filtered out half the personal attacks, we'll all be ahead :)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i wonder whats sillier, the amount of people that hate Guilliman, or the amount of people who think he has no "negative character traits".

And what would be the negative character traits of, say, Sanguinius, Vulkan or Khan? Are Corax and Ferrus Manus generally said to have such a trait? The background generally does not describe Guilliman with one, though a lot of people apparently feel that it would be too good to be true (unless it was the Angel, he's just perfect), so his motives for all of his deeds must have been in some way selfish.

 

Neither Vulkan, Corax or the Khan have had a direct written on them, so for me to speak for them would be premature.

 

Ferrus Manus: his rage blinded him and led to the Dropsite Massacre being as bad as it was, also his legion was led around by the nose, so bluntness and anger seem to fall under a negative character trait.

 

Sanguinius has only been written in complemantary terms so far, but once a book comes out i bet we'll learn more of his.

 

everyone has good and bad negative traits, and thats what makes them real. if a person is shown in only one light they become a mary sue or a villian twisting their mustache while petting a cat.

 

WLK

[Marshal Wilhelm]

i wonder whats sillier, the amount of people that hate Guilliman, or the amount of people who think he has no "negative character traits".

And what would be the negative character traits of, say, Sanguinius, Vulkan or Khan? Are Corax and Ferrus Manus generally said to have such a trait? The background generally does not describe Guilliman with one, though a lot of people apparently feel that it would be too good to be true (unless it was the Angel, he's just perfect), so his motives for all of his deeds must have been in some way selfish.

 

Sanguinius is written to be perfect, from Horus' viewpoint.

 

We have not had a book on Vulkan yet, Fulgrim gives us the most on him so far. I'd say letting Ferrus Manus rail-road him into Istvaan V was a big flaw, actually. But we need a Salamanders book to get the dirt....

Corax is also another good guy, yet stuffs up royally with the Weregeld experiment. Generally though, besides being reserved, he is seen as a good egg.

Khan, at the moment, is like Leman Russ-lite. He is ferocious and yet has not ever had enough written to say he was flawed.

 

Ferrus Manus was flawed. Blinded by pride and took the Warmaster's bait to chase after Fulgrim. He didn't communicate with Fulgrim and Fulgrim's curdled mind concluded falsly. Those are flaws.

 

Dorn, Sanguinius, El'Johnson, Russ and Guilliman are all well-fluffed characters. Dorn cracked, the Lion had inter-personal problems as did Russ. So only 1 of those 4 other "main Primarchs" (the ones with plenty-o-fluff) got the "perfect" aura.

 

Corax, Vulkan, Ferrus Manus and Khan are not well fluffed. Using them as examples as to why Guilliman shouldn't have flaws because they don't isn't sound. They could have flaws, we just don't know it yet. :)

 

I am not saying Guilliman is or is not, will or will not, be written as flawed or otherwise. I am saying that using the others as your reason for him not to be isn't sound, imo.

[Marshal Rohr]

I love it. Real character discussion. Its amazing. Who knew we'd see the day when we could actually debate the character traits of the Primarchs based on situations and not historical retellings?

[Legatus]

The problem I have with the display of smugness (or by Lorgar perceived display, though most readers will not take it as anything other than fact) is that it seems to be entirely contrary to how Guilliman is generally portrayed. Now, he is never directly portayed in one way or another as far as arrogance and vanity are concerned, but his deeds and his upbringing should be quite telling.

 

This is what the Index Astartes says about Guilliman's foster father, Konor:

"Konor was a well-liked ruler, yet his fellow Consul, a vain and jealous man named Gallan, plotted against him. In these times of prosperity, Gallan and a powerful group of the wealthy elite of Macragge had grown fat off the labor of slaves and vigorously opposed Konor's proposed reforms that would oblige them to provide their slaves with reasonable food and accomodation. Konor also pushed through legislation that forced the wealthy to contribute to his ambitious program to enlarge and improve the capital city. His reforms were of great benefit to the people of Macragge, but Gallan and his supporters were fearful of losing their wealth and power."

 

Guilliman himself, when being put in a position of command over all the Imperial forces and tasked with restructuring them, decides that the Legions be broken down into smaller Chapters. Where before he had been in command of the largest of all the Legions (more than half of all the Space Marines at times during the Scouring), by his own design he ended up with no more men under his command than every other Primarch. Or Chapter Master, for that matter.

He usually used his position of power for common good, just as his foster father did. And that would not really strike me as a person being vain about having a position of privileges or gloating when a competitor is put in his place.

Any smugness about being favoured by the Emperor or another Primarch being reprimanded seems out of character to me.

 

 

A D-B:

Jesus Christ. I apologise if that reads like an extremely tedious Director's Commentary. I'll spare us all that in the future.

Please don't.

[Hrvat]

For the matter of fact Guilliman is a very likable character as he is portrayed in most of the background, though there are some place where he is shown as acting a little superior compared to his brethren. Though I would agree on all three ocasions the primarch in question deserved that.