=I= Coming in 2010?

[Justicar Valius]

I'll bet 5 internets that DE come out in autumn, never dustrust the Pie God. DPAs visions were ages ago, back when they didn't know if it would be Daemons or or Hunters.

 

GW are revamping all the out of date army books EG.-August=Daemons of Chaos.

That's a pure model release with plastic horrors, plastic daemon prince, plastic bloodcrushers, plastic seekers and metal Changeling as well as metal Kairos.

 

DH in January at best

[Eltnot]

Hate to put a downer on everyone, but where has it been rumoured that DH/WH are being done at all? Our codices have been removed and replaced by PDF versions, that's about it apart from some changes to the boxes. All I see is reduced support for these armies, but by removing the options to induct/ally, they effectively don't have to touch our codices again to still comply with their "providing support" ideals. Unless I've missed some nugget of awesomeness in this 58 page thread that is.

 

I don't like to see it happening as much as anyone else around here, but there seems to be a lot of people banking on getting new Grey Knights just because there aren't any rumours disproving the idea.

 

Just my current 2 cents.

[Brovius]

There are a lot of signs indicating Grey Knights, actually. You just need to read GW's actions carefully.

 

Grey Knights are strongly hinted because of the second wave of Chaos Daemons models being released. It makes sense to do such a supporting/tie-in release, especially since GW has done it recently with Space Hulk (New codex and models for Tyranids and Blood Angels, the two factions in Space Hulk).

A GK release also allows GW to bring out a Stormraven kit, (as the BA codex says that Grey Knights were the first to be using the Stormraven) which will be selling to both Grey Knights players AND the overwhelming amount of BA players who have emerged since the release of their codex in April.

 

Those are two reasons as to why GKs are strongly hinted. Another one being the PDFs of the DH codex. When GW does printing runs, they have to print x-amount of codices to turn a profit on the line, and y-amount to make substantial profit. Hence, if they do not expect to sell at least x-amount before a new codex comes out, they won't print another line because it will be unprofitable for GW to do so.

The removal of many product codes is something that tends to happen a quite a few months before release for similar reasons, because new models are on the way, and they don't expect to sell all of the current models in time.

 

We need to keep in mind that GW is a business, and they do their best to maximize profit. Despite the complaints of 4/5 5th edition codices are Imperial ones, GW are going to produce what will maximize their profit, including strategic releases that coincide with other releases to drum up support, and therefore, profit, for an otherwise not very popular army. More Daemons players will mean more GK/DH players if they get a new codex, with updated rules that will actually affect Daemons.

 

At the moment, we are seeing nothing but Fantasy, because GW are trying to rebuild popularity for it. Hence the little to no 40k being mentioned. From this, we can gather that GW is keeping quiet on 40k releases until WFB 8th ed starts to get some serious support and makes GW more money. Once the Fantasy rush is over, and people have bought up on WFB rulebooks and models, GW will likely announce a sneaky 40k release before the end of the year. If they wait until January, that will be 9 months without a 40k codex, which is too long a delay for their most popular game system.

 

Once fantasy fever dies down, we'll hear more. Just be patient. While seeming stupid at times, GW know what they have been doing, they have done it for well over 25 years now. GW are the biggest wargaming company for a reason

[Eltnot]

There are a lot of signs indicating Grey Knights, actually. You just need to read GW's actions carefully.

 

Grey Knights are strongly hinted because of the second wave of Chaos Daemons models being released. It makes sense to do such a supporting/tie-in release, especially since GW has done it recently with Space Hulk (New codex and models for Tyranids and Blood Angels, the two factions in Space Hulk).

A GK release also allows GW to bring out a Stormraven kit, (as the BA codex says that Grey Knights were the first to be using the Stormraven) which will be selling to both Grey Knights players AND the overwhelming amount of BA players who have emerged since the release of their codex in April.

 

Those are two reasons as to why GKs are strongly hinted. Another one being the PDFs of the DH codex. When GW does printing runs, they have to print x-amount of codices to turn a profit on the line, and y-amount to make substantial profit. Hence, if they do not expect to sell at least x-amount before a new codex comes out, they won't print another line because it will be unprofitable for GW to do so.

The removal of many product codes is something that tends to happen a quite a few months before release for similar reasons, because new models are on the way, and they don't expect to sell all of the current models in time.

 

We need to keep in mind that GW is a business, and they do their best to maximize profit. Despite the complaints of 4/5 5th edition codices are Imperial ones, GW are going to produce what will maximize their profit, including strategic releases that coincide with other releases to drum up support, and therefore, profit, for an otherwise not very popular army. More Daemons players will mean more GK/DH players if they get a new codex, with updated rules that will actually affect Daemons.

 

At the moment, we are seeing nothing but Fantasy, because GW are trying to rebuild popularity for it. Hence the little to no 40k being mentioned. From this, we can gather that GW is keeping quiet on 40k releases until WFB 8th ed starts to get some serious support and makes GW more money. Once the Fantasy rush is over, and people have bought up on WFB rulebooks and models, GW will likely announce a sneaky 40k release before the end of the year. If they wait until January, that will be 9 months without a 40k codex, which is too long a delay for their most popular game system.

 

Once fantasy fever dies down, we'll hear more. Just be patient. While seeming stupid at times, GW know what they have been doing, they have done it for well over 25 years now. GW are the biggest wargaming company for a reason

To sum up your entire post, no we don't have any rumours, just lots and lots of conjecture and assumptions.

[Brovius]

There are a few rumors around the place, but they are rare and hard to come by.

Most of the time, rumors are someone's idea of a joke, so i'd much rather have logical assumptions over false datasheets and "i heard from my friend who is in the loop that...".

[Verythrax Draconis]

Hate to put a downer on everyone, but where has it been rumoured that DH/WH are being done at all? Our codices have been removed and replaced by PDF versions, that's about it apart from some changes to the boxes. All I see is reduced support for these armies, but by removing the options to induct/ally, they effectively don't have to touch our codices again to still comply with their "providing support" ideals. Unless I've missed some nugget of awesomeness in this 58 page thread that is.

 

I don't like to see it happening as much as anyone else around here, but there seems to be a lot of people banking on getting new Grey Knights just because there aren't any rumours disproving the idea.

 

Just my current 2 cents.

 

 

If you bother to read this whole thread, you'll see tons of real rumours and their sources ;)

[boreas]

But he is right that, as of now, there is a lot more conjectures than rumors. No smart man would put real money on GK or SoB coming out again. We'll be the first army since squats to have our entire section of the website emptied without having our codex coming out next...

 

Phil

[Eltnot]

But he is right that, as of now, there is a lot more conjectures than rumors. No smart man would put real money on GK or SoB coming out again. We'll be the first army since squats to have our entire section of the website emptied without having our codex coming out next...

 

Phil

You forgot about Chaos Dwarves, they've disappeared from GW's love as well.

 

Zoats are another example of things disappearing but they weren't exactly a force on their own to begin with.

[Brovius]

Chaos Dwarves were mostly an offshoot Chaos army, much like Beasts of Chaos were. Most CD players had Chaos armies already. Squats were at least a very independent faction. I'm not sure of this, but i think CD still have unit summaries in the back of the Fantasy rulebook too. They did last edition, and if so, CD are more of a DE case, where GW just doesn't deem the player base is large enough to warrant a new army book.

 

Zoats were part of the Tyranid army a long, long time ago, and if you are going to use that argument, SW lost the Leman Russ Exterminator, which was one of their exclusive tanks. I'm sure many other armies have lost models over their lifespan, too. Tyranids have basically lost Carnifexes with their stupidly high points cost.

[Eltnot]

Chaos Dwarves were mostly an offshoot Chaos army, much like Beasts of Chaos were. Most CD players had Chaos armies already. Squats were at least a very independent faction. I'm not sure of this, but i think CD still have unit summaries in the back of the Fantasy rulebook too. They did last edition, and if so, CD are more of a DE case, where GW just doesn't deem the player base is large enough to warrant a new army book.

 

Zoats were part of the Tyranid army a long, long time ago, and if you are going to use that argument, SW lost the Leman Russ Exterminator, which was one of their exclusive tanks. I'm sure many other armies have lost models over their lifespan, too. Tyranids have basically lost Carnifexes with their stupidly high points cost.

Chaos Dwarves were not part of the Chaos Army but had their own entire range including hobgoblins. Squats existed in RT and in 2nd ed but didn't receive a codex in 2nd ed, only the army list in the little army list booklet that came with the game. Zoats were also originally available to Eldar pirates/mercenaries.

 

But this is really neither here nor there, my point is that GW has let armies die a slow death before by simply not updating their rules (technically you can still play Chaos Dwarves from the army list book that came out at the beginning of 6th Edition I think). Chaos Dwarves are no longer available for purchase as both DH and WH appears to be going. This could be a signal that we will be getting a new codex shortly, but the release of the pdf's makes me think otherwise.

 

Whilst I want to see new releases for both armies as much as anyone else here, the fact of the matter is that all rumours are now over 6 months old or so and were hinting that something was coming for us. something has come for us. It was crap, but the PDF's have arrived. They also coincided roughly when people thought we were getting a "new" codex. A lot of people seem to believe that we will see something in Jan 2011, but that is only because we didn't receive a "new" codex when one was expected. As I said before, not a lot of rumours, bucket loads of conjecture and assumptions.

[Whitefireinferno]

TBH I raelly dont think we will see a new Hunters codex and just because Daemons is getting their second wave of models does not mean GK's are going to come out for more than one reason they Dont make GW metric crap tons of money and they have more widly played armies that I could see getting updated before them like DE, Eldar and Tau because you see more of them than you see of GK if anything I would expect to see SOB befor GKs and anyhow the only real thing keeping the GK afloat is the fact IG can take a hood and mystics thanks to them not because they like the GK they like that One Inquisitor with some floozys.

 

Also they could just bring out the StormRaven as a second wave since they would make more money from BA players than the GK players and anyway By now it has lost alot of appeal due to not being as great as most had hoped.

 

So yeah we get some Daemons in a month or so and other than that I would expect the Bondage elves to be following them.

[Brovius]

By releasing a Stormraven kit alongside a GK codex would drum up sales from both BA and GK players. A few people in my gaming group are considering GKs as an army once they are halfway competitive.

With the daemons second wave, we will be seeing a possibility of more Daemons players and larger, more various Daemon armies from older players. What better way to screw over Daemons than by releasing the guys who kill them best? GW is all about the Imperium, and making sure Imperial codices are the best ones out there. Compare Tyranids to the rest of the 5th edition codices. Tyranids by far got the worst codex, because they aren't Imperial.

It's another way for GW to piss off the Xeno and Chaos players, and what SM player doesn't think GKs are awesome? If they keep some form of allies in, we may see a resurgence of GKTs in a SM army list again, which (as i'm sure you can work out) will make GW more money, by having these awesome models useable in other Imperial armies.

It is unlikely that allies will still be available, but it is GW. You can never be certain

[Eltnot]

It is true that releasing the Storm Raven along with GK would be a nice way of introducing the model, I'm more looking at the changes that our new pdf brings.

 

Removal of Allies option - This change was kinda expected from the point of view of keeping things in order. GW doesn't have to worry how SM and IG codicies will interact with units from WH and DH.

 

Removal of Inducted options - GW's answer as to why they removed these was because some of the options no longer existed blah blah blah. Here's my thoughts on why. If we can't induct units, we are completely a stand alone codex that no longer needs to new errata each time the SM or IG codex is updated. This of course means that they no longer have to update our codex for it to work fine. Chaos Dwarves are still stuck with a similar situation where they are left to get by on a codex that was considered obsolete back in 6th Ed, Fantasy is now 8th Ed. By leaving WH and DH with just a pdf codex and slowly selling off their remaining models, they don't have to worry about providing support for what is considered to be not commercially viable (or at least probably not at the moment).

[Oiad]

It's catch 22. You need the support to get the sales and yet the sales are what feed the support. The more consistent the release * the more human-like & elite the army is = more sales. Trust me, if Grey Knights/=][= were released every edition with competitive options they'd probably be one of the top selling lines. They have everything else going for them. It should be obvious to all that most kids like to play the kick-a*s, powerful, human heroes 'good guys'. Grey Knights fit that but just don't get the support because there are many other SM codieces waiting to be plugged that are proven sells to the kids.

 

If you were different and opted for tyranids or other armies of less humane origin as your first army then congratulations, don't let it go to your head.

[boreas]

It's catch 22. You need the support to get the sales and yet the sales are what feed the support. The more consistent the release * the more human-like & elite the army is = more sales. Trust me, if Grey Knights/=][= were released every edition with competitive options they'd probably be one of the top selling lines. They have everything else going for them. It should be obvious to all that most kids like to play the kick-a*s, powerful, human heroes 'good guys'. Grey Knights fit that but just don't get the support because there are many other SM codieces waiting to be plugged that are proven sells to the kids.

 

It's definitely a problem. GW has too many "powerful, human heroes 'good guys'". They have the Ultramarines, which as posed as the "best of the best" SM. Defenders of the only real "happiness" enclave in the Imperium, they are the few, the proud, etc... In comparison, GK are a shady organisation shrouded (haha) in mystery. But then again, you have the DA which are divided and shrouded in mystery. The SW can appeal to the whole "barbarian" crowd. The BA appeal to the whole "vampire/cursed knight" crowd. So it's really hard to find a truly unique place for GKs. Even more so if you want to move aways from the ultraspecialized "we only fight daemons" thing. Sisters are a bit more differentiated. They are women, they are the only "humans" in PA, they are a religious organization, etc...

 

I like my GKs and hope there is a new codex coming out, but once again, any outsider to wargaming wouldn't bet on it. Also, I can predict that a GK dex will bring a (I think rather justified) wave of "Jeesh, GW, yet another SM codex! We want xenos!!!".

 

Phil

[Brovius]

GKs are the best of the Adeptus Astartes (Sorry Mat Ward, but they are just that much better than your smurfs, regardless how much fanwank you put in your codices), the uber elite. They are an army that is meant to have that 300 feel to them, being ridiculously outnumbered, but each warrior being powerful enough to take down a whole squad, and as such, even a single model killed is a significant loss for the army. You cannot possibly say that any other army has that playstyle or feel about them. I like the idea of wiping out the enemy with inferior numbers, and it's just so awesome when you annihilate the other army with what is currently the weakest 40k codex B)

 

 

Now BA used to appeal to the vampire/cursed knight crowd, but now it's just trying to cash in on Twilight's success, with the introduction of Nipple Guard and whatnot.

 

Introducing Commander of the First Company, Edward Cullen. Special rules include:

Sparkly Skin: As long as Night Fight rules are NOT in use, any model can target Edward Cullen with a shooting attack, regardless of intervening terrain/other models, etc.

Twilight Fever: All units in a SoB army within 24 inches of Edward must roll a Ld test. If the test is failed, the unit moves towards Edward, and runs if possible. The unit cannot initiate assault or shoot at Edward, as they have been overcome with Twilight fever, but instead pretend to drink eachother's blood to gain his attention.

Shiny 'Vampire': All models not subject to Twilight Fever gain the Preferred Enemy special rule against Edward. Seriously, Vampires don't :) sparkle!

[Warsmith Aznable]

In regards to letting Inquisition armies die a slow death: It makes sense to me that they would pull the codices and offer a pacifier in the form of the PDFs while they worked on the imminent release of the next version. If they weren't planning on updating the codex and letting the army die, why not just sell them until stock runs out? Why bother with them at all, then?

[boreas]

If they weren't planning on updating the codex and letting the army die, why not just sell them until stock runs out? Why bother with them at all, then?

 

One could argue that this is exactly what they are doing. Models are progressively taken out as stocks run out. Now, I guess some store might send back models for some reason or others, or stocks might be redistributed between the different GW branches thus the models being on and off on the website. At the same time, they put the rules on PDF to let people play with their current model, but remove allies so they reduce the number of players actually using them. In the next two years, models and rules arn't updated, but the official answer is "we're working on it". Then comes the 6th ed rulebook and the armies are taken out completely (even from the stats at the back of the book. The "new and improved" website takes away the sections completely. By then very few players actually use the armies anyways, so GW can really justify taking them out ("Sales just didn't justify").

 

Once again, I do not wish this, but anyone looking at this from the outside (or any technocrat manager at GW head office) would see it like that...

 

Phil

[Judanas]

Twilight Fever: All units in a SoB army within 24 inches of Edward must roll a Ld test. If the test is failed, the unit moves towards Edward, and runs if possible. The unit cannot initiate assault or shoot at Edward, as they have been overcome with Twilight fever, but instead pretend to drink eachother's blood to gain his attention.

Shiny 'Vampire': All models not subject to Twilight Fever gain the Preferred Enemy special rule against Edward. Seriously, Vampires don't :cuss sparkle!

 

Thank god for all the copies of Dracula my sisters carry around. Who knew St Lucius was a pen name?

[Skiman94]

"Compare Tyranids to the rest of the 5th edition codices. Tyranids by far got the worst codex, because they aren't Imperial."

 

I totally disagree with this statement. I just think it is taking the "competative/Powergamers" Longer to figure out the lists to use. I also don't think it means the Grey Knights will be to over the top powerful. They will probaley keep their elite status becasue to be honest that is what draws most off us that play them to them..The feeling of going in knowing your outnumbered out gunned but with a lit bit of Luck/emperors blessing and good tatctics you can carry the day.

[boreas]

Well, if Gks get as many fluffy and frankly fun units like venomthropes, the Parasite and Mawlocks (which, really, aren't the best units in the game...), I'll be very very happy... To me, the Tyranids codex is the exact model of what a codex should be like, game-wise (I haven't read the whole fluff part): it can produce extremely solid lists (ever went against a multi-tervigon? ouch!) and extremely fluffy lists (a Parasite and lots of swarms: tougher than you'd think if not prepared for it!!!).

 

Phil

[Octavulg]

I'd like it if those two were the same thing, myself. :P

[PhallenFoenix]

Speaking a Tyranid/GK/SoB play, I don't think its possible for me to agree with Boreas MORE on this point.

 

On a side note, I've heard numerous blogs refer to gray knight as locked in for January.

 

I wish i knew exactly what they were basing "locked in" on.

[Brovius]

Speaking a Tyranid/GK/SoB play, I don't think its possible for me to agree with Boreas MORE on this point.

 

On a side note, I've heard numerous blogs refer to gray knight as locked in for January.

 

I wish i knew exactly what they were basing "locked in" on.

 

We had someone say that DE were 'confirmed', but offered up no supporting evidence. I think it's just a cocktail of speculation and wishful thinking in both cases. We should at least hear something by GDUK. If not, well it's been a while since i've received an "Incoming:..." email from GW. We might hear something solid sooner than you think

[Justicar Valius]

We might hear something solid sooner than you think

About Dark Eldar.

 

=][= probably won't be coming out this year, they are running out of months.