Valerian Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 No prob's Valerian. Such news could have spawned a few threads but that's what this one is for and it was starting to stagnate without it. Have to thank Stickmonkey even if it doesn't seem like 5/5 brilliant news. The main point that narks me off is GWs insistance in focusing on anti-daemon abilities. We know GKs hunt daemons primarily but not completely. All it takes is a different writer to come along a rewrite a completely different set of rules for daemons to make these redundant again. Exactly, I've written about this before. It's okay if Grey Knights have some aspects that are better against Daemons, but they should be things that are optional, and paid for (just like another Marine pays for a Meltagun, to be better against vehicles, for example). When it is incorporated into the unit rules or army special rules, like the anti-Daemon stuff was in the current 3rd Edition codex, then you have to figure out how they are going to pay for that advantage, because they can't get it for free or it won't be fair to the Daemon player. However, if they pay for it and are not playing against Daemons, then it isn't fair for the Knights player. In my Fandex, I resolved this by keeping all of the special rules opponent neutral, and keeping the explicitly anti-Daemon stuff in pay-as-you-go upgrades, that you take if you want to, but don't have to if you don't think Daemons will be an issue. It looks like they've just revised the same old system from before (inherent anti-Daemon abilities with Daemonic Infestation as the trade-off), which really was a cumbersome rules mechanic that didn't work very well. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Updated the original quotes above. Harry is replying to the thread now and is still insistent that GK's will be AAGKs from now on, not PAGKs. ;) That more than makes up for the NFW changes I raged about above. having every GK with a PW will be awesome, might counter balance the high price and low number of attacks..i wonder if they will keep true grit and the strength bonus of the NFW? I've wondered this myself. Maybe they'll do what they did with the SW codex and just give GK's the counter-attack USR instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Updated the original quotes above. Harry is replying to the thread now and is still insistent that GK's will be AAGKs from now on, not PAGKs. ;) That would be quite sweet, and would give them the enhanced survivability they need to offset the high-cost per model. We simply can't have the same protection as a 15 point Marine, but pay 30+ points per model. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 i do have to wonder though a GK with arty armour, (S6?) power weapon and storm bolter as standard, makes them more effective than SM honour guard.. i strongly doubt they will remain at 25 points per... just wont make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 i do have to wonder though a GK with arty armour, (S6?) power weapon and storm bolter as standard, makes them more effective than SM honour guard.. i strongly doubt they will remain at 25 points per... just wont make sense? Price would have to go up, significantly, if you add in the psychic powers per squad, and access to S6 AP3 ranged weapons. I'm trying to figure out in my head what a fair price would be, and I don't think even 50 points per would be too much for all of that. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I gues it depends on the special rules, if they get stick with only two attacks again (even if charging) then they might be ok at 40 ish points per.. if they get more attacks then i dont know. i think psychic stuff will be upgrades for the justicar so wont have a bearing on the price of squads, also logically the justicar should get a decrease in cost compared to standard troops (currently x2) unless they intend to give him force weapon too? But then with new rules we will lose ID that beats EW and no more retinues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 No, this was my point. Apparently, they won't have S6 weapons anymore. Imagine Sanguinary Guard minus the jumpacks, masks and master-crafting, but with some flimsy additional rules and long range stormbolters, then you're mostly there. The price will go up in any case to at least 30pts+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I'd be ok with 35 pts AAGK WS5 BS5 St4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 S2+ (A3 ld9 for the justicar). Power weapon and stormbolters all around, grenades, no "true grit" or other, Shrouding (night fight), Aegis (Psychic hood vs psychic powers targetting the squad). 25 pts to switch both the stormbolter and PW to a psycannon (St6 AP3) or 5 pts to switch both to an Incinerator. Add the capacity to buy psychic powers. Then add some fodder (as hinted by SM) equivalent to IG veterans (7 points, BS4, lots of special weapons, access to chimeras and possibly valkyries) and we have a good Troops section. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I wouldn't. S Guard are 25 points a pop. With MC Power Weapon, 12" Move, 2+ Save and AP4 Bolt Pistol wannabe's. If we cost more and lose S6, just becuase we have WS5 and 24" Angelus Bolter (versus AP4, 12" move and Master Crafting), I'll be bitterly disapointed. As it stands, PAGK should cost around the same points as the Sanguin Guard, with AA and all NFW counting as Power Weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Sanguinary Guard are 40 points a pop (5 for 200 points) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 ...and have both AA and Power Weapons. So basically GKs would get less for the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 gentlemanloser was saying they were 25 points a pop. I was correcting him. I have no idea what the correct cost for the Grey Knights will be. Based on the rumors they have longer range shooting, if they are WS 5 and Bs5 that's better than SGs. Shrouding and Aegis are good. All of that is probably not worth 40 points a pop though, 30, maybe 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I know, I was backing you up, regardless of the estimated costs which you had handled. BS5 is just wishlisting at the moment by boreas, and probably many others too. With a lack of rumours about the profiles it sounds like that will stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 HAHAHAHA! Math fail! Just realised they were 40 a pop and beaten to it! :) I wasn't taking much stock in PAGK going to BS5, that would be unexpected, and utterly awesome. Still, as James said, 40 points would still be too much for trading the 12" move and AP4 and MC. 35 would probably be more like it, and probably still a little too costly. But then, we'll have to wait to see what Army Wide rules stay (And then there's Red Thirst and Descent of Angels to weigh agains Aegis and Shrouding). Which I'm cool with, as long as the pre upgraded Justicar costs the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 And theyve started work on the SOB right? im so happy for all you GK players...i bet you cant wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 QUOTE (Harry @ Aug 3 2010, 07:12 AM)The one thing I have posted about Grey Knights is they all wear artificer armour And who said a wish never came true :) I rememeber this little topic back in May, I mean the artificer/2+ area B) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=200669 I wish for 2+ Armour Grey Knight troops Aye, you got to be careful with those wish ^_^ You know with everone putting a wish, I wish - They make plastic GK spure - Phil Kelly to be the Auther as I alway like his codex - New terminators for Grey Knight IP :D Grey Knights are going to be pretty cool, can not wait for the models. I don't think that DE will be released before GK, because they have dex and models still available. People like Harry tell rumours. Everything will become clear in about few weeks. Hope for DH. For someone who post "rumours" I never seen Harry wrong with the info, pretty spot on. IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Quick Insane' make some more brilliant wishlisting predictions! ^_^ And theyve started work on the SOB right? im so happy for all you GK players...i bet you cant wait! According to Harry, they started on them a little while after. Judging by that and other info my prediction for releases in the the next year: Dark Eldar Inquisition Necrons Ecclesiarchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Quick Insane' make some more brilliant wishlisting predictions! ^_^ And theyve started work on the SOB right? im so happy for all you GK players...i bet you cant wait! According to Harry, they started on them a little while after. Judging by that and other info my prediction for releases in the the next year: Dark Eldar Inquisition Necrons Ecclesiarchy I'm pretty sure that Black Templars will appear next year. Which probably pushes the sisters to 2012 (sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 well, its possible if GK are early next year (lets guess February as I keep hearing January-March rumored), then you could get Necrons in May, Templars in August/September and Sisters in time for Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 i really hope they are out next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoWolf Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 You really think that the =I= will be separate from the ecclesiarchy? Interesting thought, SoB as a stand alone army. Could easily be done, but then that leaves the =I=. I don't really think they could be stand alone, unless they port some sort of modified allies in. I mean, Death watch could be put in (and with the upcoming RPG Death watch I can see this coming) but with GK and SoB on their own, whats left to make a big army? Dark Eldar and Necrons I see coming out next year, as I need, err...they need the update. Black templars need the update too, just as Dark angels and to a lesser extent Eldar. Personally I think that the SoB will be before the BT, as the BT still have a working codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 i hope you are right-id like plastic sob and an updated codex (or even a new one?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I'm pretty sure that Black Templars will appear next year. Which probably pushes the sisters to 2012 (sorry) Really? Wasn't there some statement about doing over the older editions first? That's why I've listed Sisters ahead of Black Templars or Dark Angels, who would be close behind. I haven't heard much to do with either Necrons or BT's to be honest so they better get started quickly. Maybe the only reason Templars are expecting a codex by then is because it'll be about time for Matt Ward to write another SM codex(!) :D You really think that the =I= will be separate from the ecclesiarchy? Interesting thought, SoB as a stand alone army. Could easily be done, but then that leaves the =I=. I don't really think they could be stand alone, unless they port some sort of modified allies in. I mean, Death watch could be put in (and with the upcoming RPG Death watch I can see this coming) but with GK and SoB on their own, whats left to make a big army? Dark Eldar and Necrons I see coming out next year, as I need, err...they need the update. Black templars need the update too, just as Dark angels and to a lesser extent Eldar. Personally I think that the SoB will be before the BT, as the BT still have a working codex. Hardcore Adeptus Sororitas players have been calling for seperation from the =][= for ages. I know many didn't like being lumped like that. With Grey Knights and Sisters supposedly being at the fore now that GW have listened to the players and acted maybe they'll go for those titles instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 i just hope they update my SOB asap...and make some plastic models! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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