=I= Coming in 2010?

[Valerian]

Yeah, but I think that the complaints are that it would be across the board, and not limited to an upgrade power, or a psychic power booning a single squad.

 

What I got, reading between the lines, was that this would be a GK 'special rule', as in all GK get it, but it's not an army wide rule (as stated, there are at least a handful of Inquisitorial and possibly other units in the Codex).

 

I think it will just be a Grey Knight special rule, too, but when the codex is named Codex: Grey Knights, and they comprise 95% of the available unit choices, then it is close enough to an army-wide rule as to make no real difference. Again, everyone's concern is that they are taking armour save re-rolls and applying them across the board (at least to all GK units), and not just to a single squad, or some special (limiting) circumstance.

 

Of course, it could be an expensive upgrade option, but we'll have to see. I doubt that though. The wording released just seemed to infer that all GK armour was anointed (why wouldn't it all be?).

 

But, we'll see eventually,

 

V

[number6]

Dare I ask what all the fuss is about here, seeing as we actually have no idea whatsoever what any new codex is going to look like? Getting all bent out of shape because of self-torture over self-developed inferred rumours about rerolling armour saves is ... counterproductive, to put it lightly. :whistling:

 

Moving on to another line of inquiry. (hint hint)

[Valerian]

I'm not sure about how I feel about the concept yet, but they are definitely for the Grey Knights and not Penitent Engines (I got it from two sources that I trust). I eventually got over the idea of Marines riding Thunderwolves for one of my other armies, so if this bothers me, I'm sure that I'll get over that, too. Blood Angels got Sanguinary Guard for their new codex (not to mention the Stormraven), which was "out of the blue", so I would say for you to not be surprised for the new exo-suits. It seems that every new 5th Edition codex has gotten something new, that had never been in the "fluff" before, but has been "ret-conned" in. Even Codex Space Marines got the Thunderfire Cannon.

Not suprised at all. Just ' :rolleyes: '

I guess we have very different perpectives as none of the other units you mentioned seemed drastically out of theme, just silly. ..... But a double-barrelled, 30ft+ tall mech fit in with small, flexible daemon-slaying army that isn't over reliant on mech? Perhaps the IG but not the GK. Besides as I said, the niche is well covered by another army. It seems silly to want to spoil that just so the certain greedy kids gain some wish-fullfillment by having everything in one army. I feel sorry for the Tau because they loose one of their unique pulling-points if this is true.

 

I think I get your point now - you have more of a problem with the exo-suit fitting the theme, more so than that it is new and unusual, and not supported in any fluff. Yeah, okay, I get that. We'll just have to see how they try and pull it off. I don't really see it as stepping on the toes of the Tau, but we can differ on that opinion.

 

Please tell your just being a contraian to my responses?

 

Oiad, please don't take my responses the wrong way; I'm not trying to be contrary at all, just trying to point out a different point of view, is all.

 

How much survival power do you want?

 

Just enough to balance against the high points cost of each individual model. No more, and no less.

 

Most armies would love T4+, 2+/6++ save with shrouding against artillery.

 

I would love that too, and it would probably be sufficient. When you suggested an improved Invulnerable Save in that earlier post, I commented that such a solution alone would not be sufficient. I see here, that you have included the change to a 2+ basic Armor Save - now that is a big improvement to survivability - and would probably be a sufficient resolution to the problem of running an expensive, elite army.

 

It sounds spoilt, overcooked and too costly asking for more.... However, some of you seem like you want an automatic 'win' button from the upcoming codex...

 

I'm certainly not asking for the "I win" button, or anything more than what you just suggested (2+/6++ with Shrouding). The only reason that I even responded before is because you had only mentioned adding an Invulnerable save to help survivability:

 

As for the re-rollable saves - I'm happy it's just a rumour. Increasing survivability can be better set by increasing the Invulerable save for each knight

 

I was noting that one of those alone wouldn't be good enough, as it only applies against weapons that ignore your Armor Save.

 

Hopefully that is all clear now.

 

Best regards,

 

V

[boreas]

My point GKs need to be played with subtlty, wittling down their opponents and maximising on their flexibility. This is how we always had to play them regardless of the ever increasing odds. Obviously this makes them less of a starter army than the horde lists suggested, and against such armies these tactics are much harder to realise.

 

I understand your point, here, but WH40k's mechanics don't allow for that. No matter how subtle one can be, 5th ed. doesn't allow for subtle play. Trying to whittle down an enemy that can move it's trukks to insure second turn charge (at the very least) anywhere on the board, or that can plop down Mycetic spores even while spawning 200-300 pts of extra gaunts (thus playing a 2200-2300 pts mass army against you 2000pts elite army), or that can shoot 3-6 big blasts (Shrouding won't help much with indirect), or that can outflank you, or drop-pod all around you, or have all-fast-vehicle army or all-cavalry marines, etc... The thing is, WH40k is very "in your face" (hence why Tau, for example, are getting harder and harder to play) and GKs cannot "kite" around their adversary as they used to. The table is just too small... I agree that re-rollable AS will jump the cost/model a lot, but if you want a 40 models (including vehicles) army, you need to jump each model's resiliency a lot. If you have 60-70 models, then, you're playing space marines by another name, no?

 

By the way, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just curious about a proper way to have "the" elite army of 40k (ie, the one that will always, always have the fewest models in a standard 2000pts list) be viable under the current ruleset...

 

Phil

[Inquisitor Fox]

I actually don't see the Exo-frames as out of place at all, nor are they really infringing upon the Tau's territory (and being that I play both.. well..)

 

The reasoning is this: The Grey Knights, even more than most marine chapters, are spread thin fighting a superior force to most armies in the field. We can argue that according to fluff daemons are far more dangerous than most xenos. So they have to maximize force with minimum manpower. History has taught us the solution to this is mechanization. Here lay the problem in that the Grey Knights are often deployed into terrain and situations that make tracked vehicles (the tank technology of the Imperium) impractical. Daemonic infestation often occurs in civilized (or once civilized) locations with cities and other difficult terrain. In addition, daemons also have greater daemons, daemon princes, soul grinders and other daemonic engines that will make short work of a traditional tank by merely ripping it to pieces.

 

The solution is to strap one of the greatest warriors in the Imperium, a Grey Knight, into a mechanical augmentation that will render him bigger, faster, stronger, and more heavily armored. Yes, you can argue that power armor and terminator armor already does this, but obviously it simply isn't enough against some of the forces that daemons can command. Dreadnaughts are closer to what is needed, but there's only so many of them available (even ForgeWorld acknowledges the desire to not be a dread in their entry on Grey Knight dreads in IA2) and they're hard to replace, with a general lack of saracophagi. Exo-suits will fulfil the same function, allow hand to hand style combat against greater daemon sized forces, while maintaining mobility and ease of deployment in tight nasty terrain like infested hive cities.

 

I just hope they can be transported by Storm Ravens like a dread... :)

 

In terms of competition with the Tau.. the Tau military is a rapid strike/rapid response animal. It is mobility and firepower, with very little emphasis on static traditional warfare. They do NOT possess power armor or terminator armor technology... instead they have their battlesuit technology which accomplishes the same thing for them. It takes a traditional infantryman and makes him bigger, faster, stronger. Their suits are jump pack equipped for mobility, and tend to carry superior firepower and weapons fits. In addition, they are often accompanied by drones, deployed via deep strike from Mantas, and are MUCH more prevalent in number than dreads (or presumably an exo-frame). Tau suits occupy not only Elites slots, but HQ slots , Heavy Support slots and even FA slots if Forge World XV-9s are in play (which are just plain sweet IMO). You can't quite build an entire army on battlesuits, but you can come darn close!

 

This would be similar in fluff to building a Deathwing force. Crisis suits are, IMO, closer in fluff to a suit of terminator armor than they are to a dread. Tau do not use Titans or dreads.. they'll just nuke you from orbit and Mantas just to be sure.

[Bishoujo]

I think the Exo-Suit idea could be pretty cool if they do it right. I would love to have something along the lines of an obliterator (though not as versatile - maybe pick 2 weapons per suit instead of having 6 like an oblit). GK desperately need a decent way to pop armor at range. Right now we can leave a 250 point land raider parked in the back, or give up a land raider to bring in a lascannon/missile launcher dread. I'd like a better option.

 

But, then again, maybe all of these rumors are just bunk and we'll just be totally surprised with what we end up with. All in all, I'm excited for next year and our mystery codex.

 

 

 

Also, I cast my vote for join-able exo-suits - put 5 together to create a super suit. Voltron style. Or Transformers style. Or whatever your fantasy might be. Power rangers?

[Brovius]

Also, I cast my vote for join-able exo-suits - put 5 together to create a super suit. Voltron style. Or Transformers style. Or whatever your fantasy might be. Power rangers?

 

Then this mega suit does battle with a Bloodletter that popped a pill to make him grow 50 feet tall ;)

[Eddie Orlock]

You know, it could be as simple as Knights in Sentinels. Use the `Power Armour`excuse normal landspeeders pull to not be open topped et voilà. You could even take them in squadrons, and they`d have an excuse to keep their shirts on. Strap them on to a storm raven, two in the hold and one on the clamps and they could drop out and slag things with some molly-meldas. With dedicated raven transport, I`d call `em a fast attack choice.

 

Also, I would not be surprised if the next T`au book included an option to take an all suit force.

[Bishoujo]

Also, I cast my vote for join-able exo-suits - put 5 together to create a super suit. Voltron style. Or Transformers style. Or whatever your fantasy might be. Power rangers?

 

Then this mega suit does battle with a Bloodletter that popped a pill to make him grow 50 feet tall :D

 

Well played Brovius. I shall submit our idea to the Black Library.

 

Mega Knight VS Khornezilla

 

Who will win this epic battle? And will there be anyone left alive in the hive city to care?

[Master Toddius]

OMG!!! EXOSUITS!?!?!? How DARE the game designers bring something new into the demon hunter arsenal after 20 years of 40k!!! I say NO to game evolution! I want it the same without any changes for another 10 years!

 

:(

[Marmande]

OMG!!! EXOSUITS!?!?!? How DARE the game designers bring something new into the demon hunter arsenal after 20 years of 40k!!! I say NO to game evolution! I want it the same without any changes for another 10 years!

 

:huh:

 

It can be new without being dumb.

 

I'll have to see how it looks before making any final judgements, but if given the choice I'd rather that this just turns out to be a Librarian Dread kit and nothing more.

[Gentlemanloser]

Given it was called a Walker, I'm thinking it's going to be more Sentinel like (ugh, I just don't like those mini AT-ATs), rather than faux MC throne like. :)

[Brovius]

Mega Knight VS Khornezilla

 

Tyrannokhornus Wrecks, Khornifex, he goes by many names

[Uncle Mel]

The organization of GKs chapter being fleshed out has opened a number of new "roles"

 

The relation of Ordos Malleus to the Inquisition is also expanded upon

 

Officio Assassinorum also has an interesting fluff piece...albeit very short

 

 

Yummy

[Eddie Orlock]

More Rumours.

I saw that too. I wonder if it's whole new cloth, or, going back to the Trader roots of a mostly codex chapter with a psychic first company.

[Gentlemanloser]

Opens up Chappies. :yes:

 

But I'm still more interested to find out more about the 'Paladin' that's been mentioned a couple of times.

 

New name for a B-C? The GK version of a Chappy? Or a Company Champion? Maybe we're nicking the BT Emperor's Champion. Can't get more Champion than the GK! :woot:

[Valerian]

Opens up Chappies. ;)

 

But I'm still more interested to find out more about the 'Paladin' that's been mentioned a couple of times.

 

New name for a B-C? The GK version of a Chappy? Or a Company Champion? Maybe we're nicking the BT Emperor's Champion. Can't get more Champion than the GK! :P

 

Because of the context in which it was used, it appears to me that the Paladin would be the leader for a GKT squad (note that there was a rumored Paladin "upgrade character", as the Justicar is a leader for the standard Grey Knight squads. Thus he would be assuming the position of the Brother-Captain. Again, I assume that this was done to "re-purpose" the Brother-Captain label to a new role as an alternate HQ choice. The Brother-Captain would likely become the (or one of the) "2-Wound" options.

 

 

Brother V

[panbient]

i'm thinking Spring 2011 is going to be it, take a good look at the logo at the end of the clip in this link - http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/08/17/dawn-of-...ay-as-the-orks/

 

would be rather sensible to shoot for complimentary tabletop releases around the same time as the game, no?

[Gentlemanloser]

The =][= in Retribution?

 

The DoW II X-Pack is about Orks, and I doubt the new playable faction will be more Marines. I think they were just trying to 'spice' up thier logo, I doubt it has anything to do with ur Codex, and I'm still hopeful on January for the Release. :D

[Tom James]

On the exosuits. Really is this a problem?

 

Old style imperial dreadnoughts were essentially this e.g. Deredo, Contemptor, and the Furibundus class dreads.

 

Yes the models do look abit naff these days but the idea is still there. Remodel to fit contemporary designs and away you go.

 

The fluff is certainly there. To make the distinction between this thing and a dreadnought, I would bet that they call it a Knight Titan (or a Grey Knight Titan). A little bigger than a dreadnought, about the same point cost and power as a LRBT, add in a nemesis force lance for a few more points. About the size of a deamon prince - that would be the ticket.

[panbient]

The =][= in Retribution?

 

The DoW II X-Pack is about Orks, and I doubt the new playable faction will be more Marines. I think they were just trying to 'spice' up thier logo, I doubt it has anything to do with ur Codex, and I'm still hopeful on January for the Release. :P

 

yeah, but so was the very first campaign, and when you got near the end who did you get to call in to take care of the xenos?

 

GKTs :cuss

 

they also specify a multi-race campaign with Orks being the first announces race. January would be great for the analog fans and still tie into the whole thing, new product on the marketplace and a new addition to a well recognized franchise to digitally advertise it to people who might not be following the tabletop action as closely. if anything the press release makes it sound more in line with the Dark Crusade and Soulstorm expansions for the original (which did also feature SoB as a playable 'race').

 

you might think they're just spicing up the logo, but i've never noticed Relic putting details like that only to ignore them later. that =][= in the logo is not there by chance.

[Brovius]

you might think they're just spicing up the logo, but i've never noticed Relic putting details like that only to ignore them later. that =][= in the logo is not there by chance.

 

That's implying that Relic have an extensive knowledge about the 40k universe.

Are you forgetting that these are the guys who had Ork voices coming out of Killa Kans. I'm surprised that the DoW Dreadnoughts aren't piloted by Guardsmen.

I'm sure there are other examples of their inaccuracies to the fluff, it's been ages since i've played DoW and i can't remember much of it

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

the inquisition is a very plausible race for the next dow II i cant see how tau, dark eldar, or emperor forbid the necrons would fit in. if you went full coruption statuse then they would hunt you down and if you stayed pure they would help you hunt down kyras. im just saying for me they seem like the most plausible race next to the gaurd. but from what we have seen the gaurd are not capable of holding off what comes to sub sector auralia.

[panbient]

you might think they're just spicing up the logo, but i've never noticed Relic putting details like that only to ignore them later. that =][= in the logo is not there by chance.

 

That's implying that Relic have an extensive knowledge about the 40k universe.

Are you forgetting that these are the guys who had Ork voices coming out of Killa Kans. I'm surprised that the DoW Dreadnoughts aren't piloted by Guardsmen.

I'm sure there are other examples of their inaccuracies to the fluff, it's been ages since i've played DoW and i can't remember much of it

 

you're staring at the trees instead of seeing the forest. they might not be tight with fluff but they seem to be rather cozy with the business side of GW. DoW is easily the most recognized of all 40k video games, Relic is also working on 'Space Marine' which GW apparently sat on the IP rights for Space Marine since around 1990 before letting someone move ahead with the title.

 

how long did it take Relic to announce the Tyranids after showing the bio-mass in the sky at the end of the original DoW2 trailer? the interviews clearly say a 'new' race for the game, one on hand that could easily be one of the existing races that hasn't been implemented into the game world yet; on the other - we seen plenty of rumours of a combined codex as well as 'Forces of the Inquisition' in the BRB.

 

regardless of those possibilities, nothing gets into a product of that caliber by chance. i'm not trying to say it's indicative of a release, but it just seems like plain good business sense to coordinate releases where the interest generated from one medium translates to gains in another.

[Gentlemanloser]

And if it is the GK, it'll be one, posibly two, GK units for the Marine army as an expansion. Just like the original.

 

No way DoW would introduce a seperate Marine army to compete with Relics chapter, when there is a wealth of other, distinct 'races' for them to implement.