The Octaguide

[Ace Debonair]

Ferrus Manus, the Dancing Queen of the Librarium

 

:P

I solemnly resolve never to irritate a moderator again. :)

You were planning to before you saw that?

That shall forever remain one of the mysteries of the age. ;)

 

Octavulg, I don't know what sorcery you conjured up to edit this guide, but it's worked. Having re-read the entire first post, it's a substantial improvement. You've kept all the relevant details and banished the subliminal message that we could all use a slap in the face. (Or at least it's significantly more subliminal, and less slap in the face. :lol: )

[NightrawenII]

I have read it. Then and now. :) And I like it. It's straight, informative and well-writen.

 

*Salutes in respect.*

[StratoKhan]

A revised version has been posted. A much, much longer revised version.

 

The new version is far better.

[Lysimachus]

Overall, a much, much better article; far more user friendly! Not as funny, admittedly, but I suppose 'the needs of the many...' and all that. :)

[Gree]

Their canon is as good/bad/right/wrong just like GW's canon.

 

Wrong. BL is the only fluff source that is not internally coherent. GW and other sources (Forgeworld, Dark Heresy etc.) all do their best make sure that their products are coherent with one another - BL does not, and it shows up regularly and obviously. The fluff is secondary to the story for BL, and no matter how you look at it that makes it less authoritative.

 

Don't make me laugh. The codices are just as bad. For example there are at least three different codices which contridict the events of the Damocles Gulf crusade. the Tyranids version of the Battle of Macragge reads differently from the Marines version. the Cadian Kasrkin have changed, etc, etc. I could go on a roll.

[Hfran Morkai]

Don't make me laugh. The codices are just as bad. For example there are at least three different codices which contridict the events of the Damocles Gulf crusade. the Tyranids version of the Battle of Macragge reads differently from the Marines version. the Cadian Kasrkin have changed, etc, etc. I could go on a roll.

 

GW themselves have told us not to take Black Library stuff as canon, regardless of inconsistencies in their own stuff the parent company has informed us that the only thing from BL we should consider canon is the Horus Heresy series.

 

So whilst they have their own irregularities, which some people might even mention is a deliberate part of GW's philosophy with nothing being true..we're not allowed to argue with it.

[Gree]

Don't make me laugh. The codices are just as bad. For example there are at least three different codices which contridict the events of the Damocles Gulf crusade. the Tyranids version of the Battle of Macragge reads differently from the Marines version. the Cadian Kasrkin have changed, etc, etc. I could go on a roll.

 

GW themselves have told us not to take Black Library stuff as canon, regardless of inconsistencies in their own stuff the parent company has informed us that the only thing from BL we should consider canon is the Horus Heresy series.

 

So whilst they have their own irregularities, which some people might even mention is a deliberate part of GW's philosophy with nothing being true..we're not allowed to argue with it.

 

Where? Where have they said this? Mind giving me a quote? To my knowledge, GW considers both canon and Black Library to be both equally true and false.

[Marshal Rohr]

Wanting BL to be canon is like wanting cancer. It really just makes your life worse.

[Gree]

Wanting BL to be canon is like wanting cancer. It really just makes your life worse.

 

 

I did not say it was canon, I was simply pointing out the fact that the Codcies are hardly better in must cases.

[Marshal Rohr]

Which is why I said it would make your life worse. Because it's even more stuff to Wade through.

[Hfran Morkai]

Where? Where have they said this? Mind giving me a quote? To my knowledge, GW considers both canon and Black Library to be both equally true and false.

 

It appears you have me there.

 

I've been searching for something indicating that GW does not endorse the Black Library as canon yet nothing has been thrown up.

 

I seem to remember someone else making that statement on this very forum, however I cannot remember for the life of me who, so I might have fallen to propaganda unless I can find it in some GW staffer's journal.

 

I apologize for my mistake

[Gree]

Which is why I said it would make your life worse. Because it's even more stuff to Wade through.

 

That's really more of an opinion, however this is nethier here or there.

[Marshal Rohr]

^_^

 

 

Seriously?

[Gree]

^_^

 

 

Seriously?

 

What's wrong is having a different opinion? Can you not tolerate what other people think?

[Ferrata]

I'm not liking this current run of form, I seem to be actually moderating people and not using the title to get free drinks, minis and ladies (well, two out of three ain't bad, ask Meatloaf).

 

This is not a discussion about whether or not BL is canon or not. This is a discussion about whether or not this guide makes eight points....I mean we are discussing the guide. Get back to it before I have to bang heads together.

 

You've been Modded ^_^

[Octavulg]

Why do I leave the Black Library out? For a variety of reasons.

 

Firstly, I don't need it. The various official books produced by GW in the form of rulebooks, codices, and White Dwarf articles have produced enough material to choke a wildebeest. Much of it can be difficult to find, yet a remarkable amount of it is still considered official and drawn upon regularly by both the company and the player base. I can do without the BL.

 

Secondly, it is not subject to nearly as much studio direction as articles produced by the GW Studio proper. The Black Library is a separate wing, and there are enough mistakes in Black Library articles to raise the question of whether there's any editorial oversight even for the structure of the writing, let alone the concepts in it. Most Black Library material is edited to a lower standard than the stuff produced on this forum. I have to accept Studio material that is such (though I reserve the right to ignore anything Matt Ward writes about anything), but the Black Library lacks the weight of Studio products, so it is possible to dismiss it in a way that Studio products can't be.

 

Thirdly, they are usually first person or third person narratives. They're stories. IAs are not, and drawing on sources like what you're writing will often provide you with better insight into how to write it. Drawing on the Black Library makes people want to write stories about how many Orks they killed.

 

And that is a general explanation of why I ignore the Black Library. I may produce an analysis of what is and isn't considered canon sometime.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Why do I leave the Black Library out? For a variety of reasons.

 

Because to put it succinctly: The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, whilst the brain is busy daydreaming.

 

 

On the topic of the Guide, I have read both versions... Despite the fact I should be working.

 

I think its kind of sad that there needs to be a guide like this, no matter that it is done very well.

[Ferrus Manus]

I think its kind of sad that there needs to be a guide like this, no matter that it is done very well.

You say that, but once you've been around for long enough you start to see a trend in what people write about (and how well its written, by which I mean how well the great why is explained) and how new they are to the game. So, with guides like this it would be nice for that not to be the situation.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I think its kind of sad that there needs to be a guide like this, no matter that it is done very well.

You say that, but once you've been around for long enough you start to see a trend in what people write about (and how well its written, by which I mean how well the great why is explained) and how new they are to the game. So, with guides like this it would be nice for that not to be the situation.

 

I've attempted three or four IAs and I always began each by going back through the Do's and Don'ts at the very least.

 

Personally I just don't write them anymore even though my last was semi-warmly recieved, as they require alot of time, patience and dedication to do it the right way.

[Octavulg]

Because to put it succinctly: The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, whilst the brain is busy daydreaming.

 

That's a good short version. :P

 

On the topic of the Guide, I have read both versions... Despite the fact I should be working.

 

And I wrote them, despite the fact I should be writing essays in order to graduate.

 

Isn't the symmetry delicious?

 

I think its kind of sad that there needs to be a guide like this, no matter that it is done very well.

 

Other than the fact they might get to be a little samey, I think it'd be great if everyone had one of these. It'd give newer writers a firmer base for their writing, and help experienced writers get tips they might otherwise miss.

 

Personally I just don't write them anymore even though my last was semi-warmly recieved, as they require alot of time, patience and dedication to do it the right way.

 

That's half the fun, though. If there weren't any work to it, there wouldn't be any reward. Finishing an IA is no fun. The process of getting it there...that's fun. That's a LOT of fun.

 

I'd recommend either finding ideas you like more or trying to challenge yourself by doing things with IAs and writing you have not done before.

[Lt. Smash]

It's a nice guide you've got here, :P

But the constant bickering really let it down.

 

I think it'd be great if everyone had one of these.

 

Yes I know that sounds weird but, are you saying it would be great if veryone wrote a guide to writing an IA?

 

You'd need a whole new board to post all the Guides. But yes it would be nice. 'specially since I've already stuffed up one IA of mine, and am halfway through the process of stuffing another one up. -_-

[Octavulg]

It's a nice guide you've got here, biggrin.gif

But the constant bickering really let it down.

 

I enjoy a bit of bickering. Bickering shows me new ideas and provides me with valuable insight into the board and its denizens.

 

Also, I either am enlightened or get the opportunity to tell people they're wrong with evidentiary backup. I enjoy both.

 

Yes I know that sounds weird but, are you saying it would be great if veryone wrote a guide to writing an IA?

 

More a guide to what they see as important in IA writing and development, but yeah. Plus any particular tricks they've picked up individually - I don't think I've seen anyone else suggest reading an IA aloud, for example, so that sort of thing.

 

I admit I probably like it more as a theory than as an actual practice (dammit people, stop stealing my thunder! :D). However, I think it might make for better criticism and better critics if we all took the time to think carefully about what we do and don't like in IAs and how we do those bits of IAs we do well.

[Ferrata]

Okay, I've given it a brief read and its much better than the first version. More informative without making people feel like they shouldn't be doing this :D. A few questions;

 

Do you want this added to the DIY Guide?

If you do, would you mind if I split it up into sections? (At the moment it is so long I think people might skip it. If I can send them to specific sections it might work better).

You need to add underneath recommended reading "Everything written by Ferrata, ever" :)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Personally I just don't write them anymore even though my last was semi-warmly recieved, as they require alot of time, patience and dedication to do it the right way.

 

That's half the fun, though. If there weren't any work to it, there wouldn't be any reward. Finishing an IA is no fun. The process of getting it there...that's fun. That's a LOT of fun.

 

I'd recommend either finding ideas you like more or trying to challenge yourself by doing things with IAs and writing you have not done before.

 

Oh I have a very good, in my own mind, idea for another IA... But the fact is, that although I'd like to my heart isn't in it because failure is not something I can tolerate! :)

[Octavulg]

The guide is now over ten thousand words long, most of that being an analysis of what to do with each section of an IA.

 

EDIT:

 

What? I was on a trip.