Brother Alucard Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 SPOILER page 430 Ahriman and Ankhu Anen ''killing'' Kallista It's too late... the Wolf is at the door and it hungers for blood. Oh, Throne...no, the blood. The Ravens, I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied! Do you think this is in refrence to the rumor that the Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons successors, or is it refering to the Raven Guard? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I took it as a Blood Raven reference, mostly because I am completely unaware of any relationship between the RG and the TS. Plus it fits in with current thinking of the relationship between BR and TS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2325908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachocuban Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 The blood ravens have a high amount of Librarians as well don't they? That seems TS'ish Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2325934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Alucard Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share Posted March 19, 2010 That's how I understood it. Unless any ''Keepers of the Fluff'' know any thing that we don't know regarding TS and Raven Guard? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2325979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korraz Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Well, you could take this also as a foreshadowing, of what will happen to the Raven Guard. The failed experiments, the degenerating gene seed, the imprisoned subjects and Corax' search for the salvation of his legion. I'll take it that way, because I hate the BRs for their awful DoW-Fluff... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANCIENT FALOR Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I really think it comes as close as u can. Without saying hey theyre 1k sons sucessors. So yeah pretty good connection to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 but didn't the thousand sons undergo the rubric before they would have a chance to have created a successor? or are you suggesting that the sons geneseed was used at a later founding to create the blood ravens? are the "lost sons" perhaps a reference to one of the 2 missing legions? though the raven of blood could be a reference to the blood ravens, especially with the remark on knowledge..... then again it could be a reference to the bloody mess created by Corax in his attempt to rebuild the Raven Guard. o' the vagueries and hints!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kaelgrim Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 To me, its been everything but SHOUTED that the Blood Ravens are 1k Sons successors. You have some mysterious librarian become Chapter Master, make all sorts of sweeping changes to keep his chapter together, they don't know their Primarch, their geneseed origin is unknown, etc. Its a heavy psyker chapter and they wear red. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Loken Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 plus the Space Wolves don't like 'em. But then apparently no chapter likes 'em according to the weapons profiles in DoW2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 If the capitals are assigned as in the book, I would say: Wolf: SW Raven: Raven Guard (the speaker seems to be refering to those 2 as something that the interlocutor knows, and that time only SW and RG existed) Raven of blood: clearly a BR reference, probably to the chapter logo itself. sons: sons of someone, not Sons as in Thousand Sons. So they can be sons (sucessor chapter) of anyone in the context. The ravens, probably by the phrases. Unless, by the context of the coversation in book, the theme of "lost sons" is already known. It's just an analysis of the presented text. Some context would be appreciated :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissah Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Maybe not every Thousand Sons made it to the Planet of Sorcerrers and some did survive the Space Wolves assault. They went out and created there own thing, its a long shot but I hope we get answers in Prospero Burns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Alucard Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 seems to be leaning to Blood Ravens then..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 The Blood Ravens rate right up their next to the Soul Drinkers in my opinion; that is that they should be flayed from the mind of man forever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I took it that way. Maybe the Blood Ravens was a way for Ahriman and Magnus to prove they are still loyal? A little internal secret ala Alpha Legion. They know they can't say anything, even to the Ravens, for doom would be assured. But they know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Alucard Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 I took it that way. Maybe the Blood Ravens was a way for Ahriman and Magnus to prove they are still loyal? A little internal secret ala Alpha Legion. They know they can't say anything, even to the Ravens, for doom would be assured. But they know. I like that idea Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2326954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 but didn't the thousand sons undergo the rubric before they would have a chance to have created a successor? Don't the AdMech keep stores of each Legion's geneseed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 but didn't the thousand sons undergo the rubric before they would have a chance to have created a successor? Don't the AdMech keep stores of each Legion's geneseed? Yeah, but "officially", all the traitor's geneseed where removed from the banks and destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 it seems a lot of people really want this to be a reference, but i would sort of doubt it as the only other thing GW has done with the BR since the beginning of DoW is try to draw gamers from the computer to the table top. i would be more likely to see the raven of blood as having to do something with the sisters of silence or the custodes. or it could have something to do with the actual cyber-raven that pops up at the end of the book. the raven is a symbol of odin in norse mythology. you might all be right, but it's not nearly a definite link, and calling it one is just wishful thinking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Vulkus Dorn Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 but didn't the thousand sons undergo the rubric before they would have a chance to have created a successor? Don't the AdMech keep stores of each Legion's geneseed? Yeah, but "officially", all the traitor's geneseed where removed from the banks and destroyed. We are lead to believe this but in reality the truth may be different. Think of the problems with the infamous Cursed Founding. I can see where the Imperium would try to run tests to see if it was something in the geneseed or if it was due to Primarch corruption from Chaos influence. I mean, lets face it, if they go rogue, declare them excommunicate and send in the Ordo Malleus to wipe them out. We already know that some loyalists remained from within the traitor legions when the war broke out so I'd imagine anything is possible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 From a pure marketing perspective it makes a great deal of sense for GW to bring the Blood Ravens into the lore more directly. Fact is that Dawn of War has done more to hype 40k and GW in general these past few years than anything else I can think of since maybe Space Crusade. I don't know how many people DoW has drawn to the hobby in terms of figures, but I do know anecdotally that quite a few people I know that played the PC games have set foot in a GW store for the first time in their lives solely due to how interesting they found the background and aesthetics presented in the videogame. To me the Blood Ravens make perfect sense as a Thousand Sons successor/splinter faction in terms of the lore (especially recent lore established in the HH books), but just as importantly it makes sense for GW to give a truly interesting, somewhat tragic backstory to a Chapter that has a real chance of overtaking the Ultramarines as the most recognisable of the Astartes with incoming young fans. Again, depending on how effective the crossover has been, don't be surprised if the BR are on the cover of the next edition 40k box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Again, depending on how effective the crossover has been, don't be surprised if the BR are on the cover of the next edition 40k box. In fact, the 5th box is a missed chance B) The problem is that the Chaos Rising expansion doesn't make clear if they are more likely to be listed as CSM or SMs... or both ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK 1K SONS Right near the start it mentions one of the 1k sons groups uses the Head of a raven as its logo for its sect thing then fast foward to the near the end but just before the wolves attack Magnus sends 4 smallish fleets away from Prospero with special orders and then blocked all transmissions to and from Prospero. So My theroy is they are indeed a 2nd founding of the Thousand sons or are first founding who left before the Rubric was cast and it did not effect them then got where they were told to go read their orders and boom Blood Ravens were Founded makes sense the Colour scheme the number of Psykers and the Fact there Chapter Master is a Psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Don't the AdMech keep stores of each Legion's geneseed? Yeah, but "officially", all the traitor's geneseed where removed from the banks and destroyed. Uh-uh. It was put in a 'time-locked vault'. Interpret that how you will, but the common interpretation is that they can't get at it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
devouruall Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 1. If you read the first twenty pages there is a reference to a TS CPT. having a raven's head on his shoulder pad inside the TS symbol. 2. The quote could be taken in many ways. 3. But the quote along the ravens head lets me believe that the BR are a surviving TS marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaust Mortium Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 As i have yet to read "A Thousand Sons" I can't really make an educated assumption of what the quote means, however i take it to mean a vision. This is when the thousands sons eralize what the imperium is to become due to thier actions. It is showing how the imperium becomes corrupt and devolves. "no, the blood. The Ravens " is referenceing the raven guard when they receive no help becuase of the horus heresy and are forced to perform horrible experiments to try and restore themselves as the emperor won't. Also, the lost sons could again be a reference to the Raven Guard but also to the legion of the Damned and any other space marines who become lost. They "Cry out for salvation" while Raven of Blood references the Blood Ravens who, due to the imperiums faulty and corrupt nature, "Cry out... for knowledge but are denied" In all I think this is more of the Thousand Sons realizing "Oh god....what have we done...we've destroyed us and all we stand for..." But as I have not read the book this is all I can say based off of strickly the quote. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195378-blood-ravens-reference-in-a-thousand-sons/#findComment-2327672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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