Ultramarines FAQ

[StrangeGuy]

Where's it from though? Black Library, BFG etc. I don't have my codex with me (loaned it to a damned xenos player) but I don't remember anything about a lance armed battle barge in it.

[Brother Pariah]

Where's it from though? Black Library, BFG etc. I don't have my codex with me (loaned it to a damned xenos player) but I don't remember anything about a lance armed battle barge in it.

There was a big article (which some decry as mere fanfic) in Battlefleet Gothic Magazine that described the Ultramarines fleet in detail, including the infamous Seditio Opprimere. This minor historical footnote would probably be overlooked by all but the most meticulous scholar-squirrels, if the Seditio Opprimere was not the most brokenly overpowered ship in the entire BFG game.

[Captain Idaho]

I would like to propose some amendments to your answers Legatus.

 

Q: Are the Ultramarines generic?

A: The Ultramarines are generic in that they do not have any special units or wargear that is not available to any other average Space Marine Chapter*. They do not have any excentric quirks or personal agendas either. The Ultramarines are exceptinal in the resources available to them and in the selection of their recruits. The systems of Ultramar had once been designed to supply a full Space Marine Legion, though a lot of the industry and facilities had been given to the successor Chapters during the Second Founding. They still have access to a lot of facilities not usually available to Marines, such as their own fleet docks. Their recruits selection is exceptional in that they do not pick from children that grew up in an environment of tribal or gang conflicts, as is the case with most other Chapters. Instead, the Children of Macragge are subjected to mandatory military academies from the ages 6 to 14, so by the time they are selected to become Ultramarines they have already had about 8 years of military drill. An excellent foundation to make them into Space Marines.

 

I would like to add emphasis to this:

 

The worlds of Ultramar are extremely martial, with every child raised from an early age in military barracks until they are 35, whilst the newborns of the people are left on the mountains to perish if they they are deemed weak. (Source - Index Astartes Ultramarines) This means the Ultramarines come from a people whose mindset and physical prowas is completely geared to being strong, disciplined and dedicated to the art of war. The Ultramarines are therefore the consumate proffessional warriors.

 

Q: Is the empire of Ultramar a violation of the Codex Astartes?

Concidering who wrote the Codex, probably not. It is worth to point out, though, that however many systems chock full of PDF a Chapter may own are of no strategic value without the fleet to transport them to other worlds. All those systems can do is defend themselves. they are not strategic assets at the disposal of the Ultramarines, and having only one system or more than that is of little consequence, except that the Chapter has more resources available to resupply and has more worlds to look after.

Ultramar has hundreds of regiments ready to join the Imperial Guard on demand, but once they are introduced into the Imperial Guard they cease to be Ultramar units. They are then under Imperial command.

 

I would like to add:

 

Ultramar was around before the Heresy and the creation of the Codex Astartes, and like the other worlds and dominions of the 1st Founding Legions turned Chapters, the Ultramarines were not required to give up their home world(s), but future Chapters would not be granted dominion over more than a single world. In this way, no Chapter had to give up what it already had, just reduce it's fighting strength.

 

As way of an example, the Salamanders and Raven Guard both hold dominion over two planets each, the Ultramarines are no different in that they hold more than a single world under their control.

[The Emperor's Champion]

It's a Battlefleet Gothic "Special Character" thing for the Ultramarines fleet.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

It's a Battlefleet Gothic "Special Character" thing for the Ultramarines fleet.

 

And it is evil beyond doubt.

[Ktan]

You are explaining it like you would to an Ultramarine, you have to explain it like you would to an Imperial Fist.

 

I think this is definitely a point to consider.

 

Also, I'd throw something in about the Codex.

 

Maybe like:

 

Q: How strict is the Codex?

 

A:The Codex Astartes is a tactical treatise, originally compiled by Roboute Guilliman. It details the organisation of a Space Marine chapter. However, it also contains large amounts of tactical info, from strategies, to evaluations of previous battles. These also come from a number of sources, including other Primarchs. [i'm sure there are sources elsewhere, but I don't know if any explicitly say other Primarchs, or if this is my own conjecture.]

 

The Codex is also a living document. Imperials tacticians have added to it over the millenia, adding new insights and information to further enhance the tactical value of the Tome. [i believe this is stated in the 5th Ed C:SM]

 

It is better to think of the Codex Astartes as like Sun Tzu's Art of War, in many instances, rather than a technical handbook. It provides the information to solve problems; interpretation is a large part of that. Some aspects, like organisation, however, and markings are stricter. [if this could be sourced, or if we could explain why markings are so strict. Maybe because battle has no right/wrong answers, per se, but markings can be standardised]For these reasons, Non-Codex often refers to ignoring Codex organisations, since ignoring the Codex for its tactical value is tantamount to throwing out all historical knowledge about war [This is an interpretation of Octavulg's Octaguide section about the Codex. If this could be supported that would be great. I also hope I've not misquoted the fellow xD]

[Cptn. Palladorus]

What specifically makes the Seditio Opprimere a deviation from the Codex Astartes?

[Captain Idaho]

It is a gunship type of vessel, with it's primary purpose to be long range fire support (the thing has something like S6 Range 60cm port and starboard Lance Batteries!) and destruction of other vessels, as opposed to the usual purpose of a Battlebarge being to breach defences and deploy Space Marines

[blackoption]

I'm sorry legatus, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

 

Q: Does the introduction of such things as the Tyrannic War Veterans and the Seditio Opprimere mean that the Ultramarines have begun to violate the Codex Astartes?

 

NO. The Codex is a living and evolving document. New threats are abound to arise over time. Thus new tactics, techniques, and procedures are created to counter these threats. Though while the creation of these items may not have been in the letter of the Codex (at the time), they followed the spirit of the codex is tactical problem solving to the codex's balanced approach to warfare (C:SM 5th Ed, pg. 51). The Codex stress fluid and flexible operations.

[Marshal Rohr]

The TWV are more of a faction, not a unit.

[Gree]

You are explaining it like you would to an Ultramarine, you have to explain it like you would to an Imperial Fist.

 

I think this is definitely a point to consider.

 

Also, I'd throw something in about the Codex.

 

Maybe like:

 

Q: How strict is the Codex?

 

A:The Codex Astartes is a tactical treatise, originally compiled by Roboute Guilliman. It details the organisation of a Space Marine chapter. However, it also contains large amounts of tactical info, from strategies, to evaluations of previous battles. These also come from a number of sources, including other Primarchs. [i'm sure there are sources elsewhere, but I don't know if any explicitly say other Primarchs, or if this is my own conjecture.]

 

The Codex is also a living document. Imperials tacticians have added to it over the millenia, adding new insights and information to further enhance the tactical value of the Tome. [i believe this is stated in the 5th Ed C:SM]

 

It is better to think of the Codex Astartes as like Sun Tzu's Art of War, in many instances, rather than a technical handbook. It provides the information to solve problems; interpretation is a large part of that. Some aspects, like organisation, however, and markings are stricter. [if this could be sourced, or if we could explain why markings are so strict. Maybe because battle has no right/wrong answers, per se, but markings can be standardised]For these reasons, Non-Codex often refers to ignoring Codex organisations, since ignoring the Codex for its tactical value is tantamount to throwing out all historical knowledge about war [This is an interpretation of Octavulg's Octaguide section about the Codex. If this could be supported that would be great. I also hope I've not misquoted the fellow xD]

 

About this the Ultramarines don't interpret the Codex like other chapters.

 

As befits the Chapter of Roboute Guilliman, the Ultramarines adhere rigidly to the tenets laid down in the Codex Astartes, For ten thousand years they have fought in the manner described in its holy pages. Other Chapters may freely interpret the words of Guilliman but, to the Ultramarines, such deviation is unthinkable. The Codex Astartes is a work of divine wisdom, sanctified by the Emperor himself, and the Ultramarines see no reason to deviate from its wisdom. The life-long lessons of discipline and self-reliance that are taught to the people of Ultramar from birth give them the strength of character to hold true to teachings over ten thousand years old.

 

This statement implies they hold true to the teachings of the Codex ten thousand years ago, however an earlier quote in the same article has the codex evolving.

 

The Codex Astartes laid down the tactical doctrines of the Imperium's fighting forces and was to grow and evolve over the millennia into a massive tome that detailed everything from battlefield stratagems to uniform markings for various squad types

[Brother Pariah]

The Codex Astartes is too complex for us to deal with in a reasonably concise manner in this FAQ, I think. I will link to, and I encourage people to add to, the "What is the Codex Astartes?" Project. We can briefly talk about the Ultramarines' attitudes and relationship with the Codex here, though.

 

As far as Legatus's answers go, there is some good and some bad in there. I will try to edit everyone's responses together to present a reasonably-balanced set of answers. It's clear to me that the Tyrannic War Veterans are a controversial issue, and need to be explained carefully. The Ultramarines themselves were obviously divided on the issue, and eventually voted to amend the Codex Astartes to "legalize" the TWVs.

[Seahawk]

There was a big article (which some decry as mere fanfic) in Battlefleet Gothic Magazine

What people are forgetting is that it is an officially printed ship in White Dwarf as well...

[Legatus]

Why wouldn't we go by what their own background says?

 

4th Edition TWVs: "In the past it had been argued that it was contrary to the teachings of the great Codex Astartes for Space Marines to specialise to this degree, but two factors weighed against this. First, the necessity of having a full strength Veteran company available and second the deeply-felt hatred for the Tyranids within the Chapter."

4th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 50.

 

5th Edition TWVs: "Though secretly thoughtful of the strength of Cassius' newfound fervour, Calgar acceded to the request. The Chapter Master's sanction given, Cassius pulled together his corps of Tyrannic War Veterans. Though Cassius' recruits were initially few in number, each fresh clash with the Tyranid Hive Fleets provides new followers to his cause.

As the movement has grown, Cassius has become ever more withdrawn and his followers an ever more influential faction within the Ultramarines. Though this is perhaps a minor deviation from the Codex Astartes, Lord Macragge tolerates his mentor's divergence."

5th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 87.

 

I was pretty much rephrasing the 4th Edition description in my FaQ answer.

 

Newfound information is added to the Codex Astartes. It will now include all the accumulated tactics and doctrines to fight Tyranid effectively, much of it coming from the experiences of the Ultramarines, and a lot is probably written by Marneus Calgar himself. However, that is different from changing the Chapters organisation structure. Adding information about an enemy that was not known before is not "against the Codex". Changing the Chapter's organsition is.

 

The Codex advocates flexibility. Specialisation is the opposite of that. If the Ultramarines specialise to fight Tyranids, they will obviously be better suited to fight Tyranids. However, that means they are now less suited to fight Orks, Eldar, Rebels or Traitor Marines than an average Chapter, as they decided to focus considerable elements of their Chapter on one particular foe (about half of the first company, which is the strongest company of a Chapter).

[chaplain belisarius]

Finally! great idea-well done sir! Knowledge is the cure to ignorance!:)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

There was a big article (which some decry as mere fanfic) in Battlefleet Gothic Magazine

What people are forgetting is that it is an officially printed ship in White Dwarf as well...

 

That doesn't make it right!

[blackoption]

The Codex advocates flexibility. Specialisation is the opposite of that. If the Ultramarines specialise to fight Tyranids, they will obviously be better suited to fight Tyranids. However, that means they are now less suited to fight Orks, Eldar, Rebels or Traitor Marines than an average Chapter, as they decided to focus considerable elements of their Chapter on one particular foe (about half of the first company, which is the strongest company of a Chapter).

 

Specialization is not the opposite of flexibility. If it were, then their would be no difference between Assault, Devastator, and Tactical Marines. Specialization is to focus on an aspect and make it a strength. While yes, this often (though not always) means you accept risk by not being as strong in another aspect. Flexibility is applying your strengths where the enemy is weak while still preventing your enemy from exploiting your weakness. If the enemy is powerful, but sluggish, use mobility tactics. If the enemy is agile, deny him his mobility and fix him so you can use your superior strength.

 

This tactical flexibility is what allows the ultramarines to counter every threat in the Imperium. Without specialization of any kind, then we limit our own tactical options. Squads, and even Companies, can specialize. (6th-10th companies in a codex chapter). Yet it is how a company (and the chapter as a whole) use these specialized teams, that determine if they are a flexible fighting formation or if they always smash a round peg through a square hole.

[Ktan]

...

 

Not having my Codex with me for further research = bad times ;p

[Legatus]

Specialization is not the opposite of flexibility.

Yes, I think it is. Check out the definition of "Specialist" or "specialization".

 

Assault Squads and Devastator squads are specialised, while Tactical squads are not. A Company with 6 allrounders, two close combatants and two ranged supporters is still flexible. And even if close combat would not be the ideal approach against a particular enemy, at least the squad could still employ the tactics they specialised in. Specialising in fighting a particular kind of enemy is different, as every time the squad is not fighting that enemy they cannot apply their specialist tactics. If a Company, and the strongest Company of a Chapter at that, is 50% specialised in fighting one particular kind of enemy, then we are talking about a commitment and degree of specialisation that is starting to be an issue. Which is what the 4th Edition Codex Space Marines also had pointed out. But the Ultramarines decided that it is ok in this case, as they really hated those Tyranids, and they needed a new full 1st Company, and promoting Tyrannic War Veterans is much quicker than to wait for proper Veteran to distinguish themselves and earn the promotion.

[blackoption]

We are going to just have to disagree on this issue. I see what where your logic is, but it doesn't match up with my experiences and training.

[The Emperor's Champion]

There was a big article (which some decry as mere fanfic) in Battlefleet Gothic Magazine

What people are forgetting is that it is an officially printed ship in White Dwarf as well...

 

That doesn't make it right!

Actually, it does.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

There was a big article (which some decry as mere fanfic) in Battlefleet Gothic Magazine

What people are forgetting is that it is an officially printed ship in White Dwarf as well...

 

That doesn't make it right!

Actually, it does.

 

No it doesn't... That makes it generally acceptable, but not right :)

[The Emperor's Champion]

What I mean is, it makes it canon. And since whether you -like- it or not canon is right, therefore it is right (in that sense).

[Captain Juan Juarez]

What I mean is, it makes it canon. And since whether you -like- it or not canon is right, therefore it is right (in that sense).

 

I know.. I'm just argumentative.

[Legatus]

I have got a few:

 

 

Q. The Luna Wolves, the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves were the top three Legions during the Great Crusade, and the Ultramarines were not really involved in the Horus Heresy. Did the Ultramarines Legion even distinguish itself in any way during those times?

A. The Luna Wolves, the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves were the three Legions with the most victories. The Ultramarines in the other hand were the Legion with the most liberated worlds. Each alien planet or fleet destroyed, or each defended Imperial world would count as a victory, but neither would count as a liberated world. The way Guilliman took care of establishing defenses and trade routes for the worlds he liberated allowed him to continue his crusade efforts where other Legions might have had to return to reinforce their ranks or defend worlds they had already liberated against new attacks.

In particular, the Ultramarine legion was praised for the following traits:

 

- They made faster progress than other Legions due to the way Guilliman organised their efforts, and they ultimately liberated more worlds than any other Legion

 

- They conquered worlds with a minimum of collateral and infrastructural damage and made sure the worlds were stable and well defended when they left

 

- They suffered fewer casualties in battle than any other Legion due to Guilliman's tactical expertise

 

(5th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 13; 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines, page 12)

 

 

Q. Cannot the success of the Ultramarines Legion during the Great Crusade be attributed entirely to the Legion's enormeous size?

A. The Emperor did not present Roboute Guilliman with an already over-sized Legion. He started with a normal Legion, and the Ultramarines were already said to be faster in their progress from the very beginning. After a short time the Legion started to be reinforced by the first recruits from Macragge, and because of the thoroughly organised recruitment program on the one hand and the few casualties on the other hand the Ultramarines soon came to be the largest of the Legions. The Ultramarines' successes were not a result of the Legion's size, their size was a result of their successes.

(5th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 13; 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines, page 12)