Dornian Heresy - Codex In Progress

[Ferrata]

Chaos Legions: Codes: Chaos Space Marines

All of these can be represented using the standard Chaos Rules. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Iron Hands and where they're taken.

That is a little shoe-horning I believe. The White Scars are much better represented by the Dark Angel codex, and more specifically the Ravenwing. This way, you can get a leader in a Land Speeder (nice for the richer Khans) and superior biking ability :D

[Brother Aiwass]

Grey Knights can be taken as allies in marine armies and vice versa. We'll have to agree to disagree on the World Eaters :)

 

Well, yeah xD

 

BTW, I think that if some army must use the BA codex, this would be the Night Lords :P

 

Fear factor=Death Masks; Lots of jump troops (besides some people disagree on this, they are the first Legion to have Raptors :P); Dante=Zso Shaal (whatever is called); Psypowers fit as well (fear of the darkness, wings); Terror Tactics=Deep Strike Land Raiders :D

 

Chaos Legions: Codes: Chaos Space Marines

All of these can be represented using the standard Chaos Rules. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Iron Hands and where they're taken.

That is a little shoe-horning I believe. The White Scars are much better represented by the Dark Angel codex, and more specifically the Ravenwing. This way, you can get a leader in a Land Speeder (nice for the richer Khans) and superior biking ability :D

 

CSM Nurgle can fit well with BA I guess, and SM codex with Iron Warriors (Master of the Forge, Techmarines a gogo, allied basilisks, vindis), Lysander.

[Guest Mordray]

I disagree. WE are supposed to be martial, and the Ultramarines of the alt-verse instead of the pre heresy Blood Angels. I also see no reason why the World Eaters would have Baal predators and fast vehicles and enough Land Raider to make it rain via DS. If we are going to use the 40k wargear Black Templar/SM fits better I think. If not, C:CSM. In the C:CSM you have assault squads as troops (berzerkers) and Oath of Moments (Icons/Marks), larger squads legion like, better Ld and Demonic Possesion as POTMS, lesser daemons and scouts and so on.

 

Just because a unit exists doesn't mean you have to use it... just because a special ability exists doesn't mean you must use it.

 

Other then squad size Codex: BA is a far better representation of the [DH] WE then the Chaos dex...

 

If you've got a problem with Baal Predator's and likely the DC and Sang' priests then what about the Rubic/Nurgle/Noise Marines? Oh and lets not forget the insane Dreads and Defilers... and the lack of the newer hardware. [DH] WE will have access to the wargear and vehicles of Codex: SM (via fluff). The only codex that allows this and the ability to deploy a force that favors assault is the BA 'dex.

[Brother Aiwass]

This is because the C:BA is a shiny codex and a "shiny codex syndrome" is kickin' around in my opinion. But you're wrong about the "The only codex that allows this and the ability to deploy a force that favors assault is the BA 'dex" because C:BT fits better.

 

EDIT: And a 'zerker list, and SW army are all about "favor assault".

[The emperors chosen]

So should I put a hold on the thread in the ultramarines forum, or keep it going?

[Aurelius Rex]

Briefly - I put a big post in the WE rules thread and it's getting late here - I think that there are many possible options for the codex to use depending on how you want to present and play them. Personally I think the Space Wolves codex would work best for me - see the WE thread for details, but I would be happy to leave the JP heavy assaults to the Emperor's Children ;) - but other WE great companies could be better fitted to C:SM or C:BA. :D

 

@AGPO - I had the same provisional thoughts on the Thousand Sons and the Word Bearers, and the still pre-heresy EC could fit nicely. :D

 

Ferrata - Great to see you here - the author of the DH WS. :D Ravenguardy bikes and the odd speeder? Could certainly be interesting. How about the Khan captain in C:SM to open up lots of bikes? Do we need to use marks of slaanesh for them at all, do you think?

 

@Maximvs - Night Lords with BA rules? Interesting, and I haven't even written the IA. :D

 

@TEC - It has got a little away from us over there, but if it is generating useful debate then it could stay on for now. :)

 

 

Has anyone given thought to a summation of what each legion would be like on the battlefield - a short paragraph or two as a target for what we are aiming at simulating? If we can get ones for the EC, RG and WB then we can start individual rules threads for those legions tomorrow. :D

[The emperors chosen]

what we have over there now is really as far out as I was planning on going, as reading the IA, there really isn't that much of a difference, and I don't want to have to write a new set of rules when there already is one. Some questions though, do the UM have things like razorbacks, assault cannons, and storm bolters?

[Brother Aiwass]

Word Bearers... Let's see.

 

Righteous zeal, abhor the witch, suffer not the unclean alive, uphold the honor of the Emperor... Cenobytes, Holy orb of Antioch, Holy relic, Sacred standard...

 

All of this sounds pretty religious to me, very fanatic. Can someone guess what codex is? :(

[Ferrata]

Ravenguardy bikes and the odd speeder? Could certainly be interesting. How about the Khan captain in C:SM to open up lots of bikes? Do we need to use marks of slaanesh for them at all, do you think?

There is a great degree of flexability for the White Scars, divided as they are. It depends on the Brotherhood you are playing as - whilst they all share a common theme of bikes, speed and greed, they do have different levels of devotion to Slaanesh and different levels of wealth. The Ravenwing represents a more wealthy Khan, a speeder leader is something to talk about and boast about. Taking Khan from the SM codex, or indeed a captain on a bike, would represent a less well-off Brotherhood who have to rely on bikes and don't have the opportunity to field Land Speeders (it would be a forced removal). The use of the Chaos Codex with lots of bikes, daemons and transports would represent a Brotherhood who have fell into the embrace of Slaanesh more profoundly than their brothers and use daemons. For example, the Storm Lords would more likely use the Chaos codex due to the ability to take more magic :cuss

[Insacrum]

My two cents -

 

EC: I like the Idea that they are focused on using older style armor. One thing that I was thinking about is that wouldn't Tactical Dreadnaught Armor (Terminators) also be considered older armor. As such couldn't they be a TDA heavy armor (AKA Deathwing?) if you truly want to go old school with these guys the C:DA might be a good fit. you don't have as much as the way of jump pack troops, but if you go with deathwing and ravenwing, you can model the bikes as jetbikes for the purposes of showing them using older tech.

 

RG: I'm torn with these guys. I can see people wanting to just use the C:CSM and going slanneesh heavy. But I have a different radical codex to use the these guys as a "counts as" XYZ. Bear with me. These guys are heavily mutated and modified via Fabius Bial. What do people think of the fact that there mutations are continuing at a rapid pace. I could see someone using the Tyranid Codex for them. Your Sorcerers could be your HQ units, and when with tyranids (or at least the old school nids) when you were out of HQ range, your guys went psycho. You could use the Nid Broodlord as the Clonelord. With they astounding amount of tyranid mutations, it would make perfect sense in my head to represent the Raven Guard with them. If use the Tyranid Codex for the rules and simply change all of the fluff around it, I think you could end up with a nicely done army codex. The Hive Tyrant as the Demon Prince, etc.

 

WB: I would have to agree about the people who are suggesting the Witchhunters for these guys. I would even say that the WB would have the same stats as the sisters of battle (remember these guys could be weakening themself physically with fasting and other drastic means), while at the same time there armor could be weakened as well due to the etching and branding that they due to themselfs.

 

like I said...My two cents....

 

BTW, I can't wait for the Dark Angels IA (I hope Cypher turns out to be Lion El'Jonson, the voice of the Emperor)!

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

EC: I like the Idea that they are focused on using older style armor. One thing that I was thinking about is that wouldn't Tactical Dreadnaught Armor (Terminators) also be considered older armor. As such couldn't they be a TDA heavy armor (AKA Deathwing?) if you truly want to go old school with these guys the C:DA might be a good fit. you don't have as much as the way of jump pack troops, but if you go with deathwing and ravenwing, you can model the bikes as jetbikes for the purposes of showing them using older tech.

BTW, I can't wait for the Dark Angels IA (I hope Cypher turns out to be Lion El'Jonson, the voice of the Emperor)!

 

i thought that the legions were just starting to recieve terminator armor at the beginning of the HH novels, i don't think it would be in ready supply for everyone, nor would it be considered older. if anything i would think the EC would have less.

[Lady_Mournival]

EC: I like the Idea that they are focused on using older style armor. One thing that I was thinking about is that wouldn't Tactical Dreadnaught Armor (Terminators) also be considered older armor. As such couldn't they be a TDA heavy armor (AKA Deathwing?) if you truly want to go old school with these guys the C:DA might be a good fit. you don't have as much as the way of jump pack troops, but if you go with deathwing and ravenwing, you can model the bikes as jetbikes for the purposes of showing them using older tech.

BTW, I can't wait for the Dark Angels IA (I hope Cypher turns out to be Lion El'Jonson, the voice of the Emperor)!

 

i thought that the legions were just starting to recieve terminator armor at the beginning of the HH novels, i don't think it would be in ready supply for everyone, nor would it be considered older. if anything i would think the EC would have less.

That's something I've always been meaning to correct and of course also the assault Cannons. More then a couple Legions seemed to have terminators and assault cannons before the Heresy, much less before Ullanor (Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, Luna Wolves, Word Bearers, and more then probably Emperor's Children), and it's also the same with assault cannons. My best guess is they (TDA and AC) were first issued to the Emperor's favoured (LW), and then to the legions that could use a boost; the youngest (Apha Legion), 2 that had tragedies (EC and TS), and the slowest conquerors (the WB)

[Shotbreak]

-Sigismund's Chosen: Very much a tongue in the cheek parody of Abaddon's Chosen. The four are Helbrecht (Slaanesh?), Ludoldus (Tzeentchian), Sigenandus (Khornate) and Grimaldus (Nurgle?).

 

I think Sigismund taking Abaddons place is good, but IMO the chosen should be opposites for the Legions who are of each following.

Like Lucas the Trickster being something evil and with a better name I can't seem to think of as a champion of Khorne.

 

Slaanesh would be White Scars so Kor'sarro Khan would fit the bill

 

Nurgle would be Tycho

 

and Tzeentch would be a Raven Guard dude :D

[Skirax]

Lukas the Slaughterer/Reaper/Murderer/Butcher?

 

As for Raven Guard, Shrike fits nicely, obviously.

 

I'll repeat it, can I book the Iron Warriors please?

[Aurelius Rex]

I have posted the start of the Emperor's Children thread in the rules section. I will post up ones for the Raven Guard and Word Bearers in a day or so.

 

The World Eaters thread has created a lot of great discussion, and a lot of possibilities. I have been talked around to the idea of C:SW as being how I would personally field them... controlled, lots of dangerous leaders, and even their 'tactical' squads can have chain-axes and bolt pistols when bolters become inefficient... an entire army of close combat guys. That's not to say that it couldn't be done another way.

 

@Skirax - Re the Iron Warriors, feel free to come up with a thread along the lines of the WE and EC ones for when we reach that stage. Hopefully we can get through three at a time and maybe be ready to go with the Iron Warriors some time next week? I will get back to you on the PM's ASAP - although tomorrow looks to be tricky. :cuss

[Skirax]

Thanks AR, I'd love to do it! If we couldn't find some fitting rules, then would we have clearance to stray into 'Homemade' rules?

[captin wow]

Some ideas for Raven Guard

 

All units should benifit from the deep strike rule. Also should be a rule like "strike from the shadows" that adds +1 attack and +1 Initiative to the Raven Guard unit and -1 to BS and WS for units atacking the Raven Guard unit. This rule would only be applicable on the turn the units deep strike.

Also all Raven Guard units other than sorcerers and vehicle should take "spawn tests". basicaly each unit makes a spawn test each turn, if sorcerers are on the field on the role of a 1 D6 of the unit are transformed into spawn of chaos. If all sorcreres are dead/fled the field on a 1, 2 or 3 D6 of the unit are transformed.

I also think there could be space for the fleet of foot rule with the Guard due to there wingedness.

 

just sugestions anyways.

[darthrex354]

i don't see why a few special units and vehicles (say one or two per legion) couldn't be written up. if you don't give in to the temptation to undercost things i've found people to actually be exited to face a cool and unique homebrew unit in a friendly game. i've even got some ideas.

also, for EC, why not cosult the tempus fugitives great crusade codex, it has all the pre-heresy war gear and if you use restaint it's pretty balanced.

now my ideas for what i think would be cool home brew units

 

Ultras: a predator with a rail gun, and i thought it might be cool if they made a unit (based on reverse engineered battlesuits) that was halfway between power armor and a dreadnought

 

blood angels: in the DH the sanguinary guard are flying plague marines

 

space wolves: instead of being a shame, the wolfen (rage incarnate) are the highest state for the khornate wolves, the wolf guard of the DH are all wolfen, leading packs of bloodclaws in orgies of slaughter

 

iron hands: as an avid mecanicus fan and fluff junkie i know about the theories that, the viod dragon is the omnissiah, that its trapped in the noctis laberynth and manus hands were c'tan metal, my theory is that the hands are not chaos worshippers. they instead worship the void dragon. (the all metal being seen leading thier raid on mars is either a c'tan or manus transformed into a c'tan. hence they would use gauss weponry and the morlocks would be super pariahs

 

these are just a few ideas that i had, it's a new universe so i figure, have fun and don't obsess over weather it's totally legal :)

 

if i could, i love the iron hands and the necrons so could i work on the DH iron hands codex

[Araith]

I'll pitch in on this project. I didn't give much attention to the Dornian Heresy before, but now that I've read the pdf it's gotten me really interested.

 

Off to the WE topic then.

 

EDIT: Having entered there I'm not sure whether the current philosophy of mostly using count-as is the best idea. It quickly turns to using a codex, removing the goodies that don't fit with the Legion and leaving a stripped codex. Perhaps it'd be more interesting to write codices ourselves, but using as many references to legal codices as possible. So if the tactical squad or a tank doesn't differ from the parallel entry in the codex: SM we would just refer to the codex: SM. That'd give us supplementary codices much like the 3rd edition codex: Space Wolves, with a lot of similarities to the parent codex, but allowing us to let the unique character of the Legion to stand out more. Another comparison in this approach could be made to Bannus' Codex: Salamanders project.

[Lynnean]

i could work on the Blood Angels rules?

[Lt. Smash]

I'd like to help if it's possible.

 

I'd be willing to help in pretty much any area, but I'd enjoy playtesting the rules.

[Lynnean]

want it or not, i've started on a Custom Codex for the Blood Angels, if you guys don't mind.

though i won't work much on it the coming weeks.... school work is in the way >>

[Trupie]

I'm really sorry if this counts as necro-ing, but I just started really getting into the Dornian heresy. I was wondering if I could work on the Night Lords using Codex: BA as a base? Also, what is the format we are using? Will we use just army lists with custom special characters or are we merely deciding what to "count as" everything.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I've had a few ideas concerning Dornian Armies

 

1 Thousand Sons: Each Thousand Sons squad has the option to purchase 1 or 2 psychic abilities based off of their role i.e assault squads being able to read their enemies minds and so have prefered enemy, Devastators guiding their missles and such to their target and so have tank hunters. But as they are psychic powers a psychic test mustbe taken to use them. If the squad seargent is killed then the squad emediatly takes a leadership test, if they pass they continue as normal, if they fail they are immediatly pinned. Regardless if the seargent is killed the squad can no longer use psychic powers as they have no one to guide them (except veteran squads who are experienced enough to us their powers without a guide) unless they are joined by an IC who has the psyker special rule

 

2 Word Bearers: To me the Black Templars codex screams Word Bearers, half of the wargear entries are holy this and holy that and with the special rules associated with them (especially the Emperors Champion) they are a very religious, zealous chapter. The EC himself fits with the theme as the EC is usually determined by visions granted by the Emperor. Also the neophytes that are in the squads can be represented by the fanatics, military soldiers and pilgrims who fight alongside the Word Bearers.

 

3 World Eaters: I believe that the World Eaters would best be represented with a basis on CSM with a special character created that allows the player to alter the composition of their army i.e assault squads as troops, Vanguard remain fast attack, units gain counter charge. Or you could just go the easy route and use SW to represent them

[Trupie]

1) I kinda like the idea of the Thousand Sons using an Eldar-esque system for their psykers. Im actually building a full thousand sons army and I know that psyker spam can be really frustrating. Especially when you perils as much as I do :)

 

2) I totally agree with word bearers on this one.

 

3) By CSM do you mean Codex: Space Marine or Codex Chaos Marine?, I'll assume the former. Perhaps if we go the special character route, we can add a stipulation that all Assault Sqauds without Jump Packs are troops to stop it from becoming another C:BA