The Marines Exemplar

[Ecritter]

Salamanders do ritual branding, and Veterans (assuming the Chapter Master was a Veteran) get them on their faces.

[Octavulg]

Keep in mind - there may be fewer Marine Chapters than Titan Legions.

 

While there are only a thousand Marine Chapters, most Forge Worlds have one or more Titan Legions (according to Lexicanum, at least).

 

10% of Imperial Planets are Forge Worlds. That means there are about a hundred thousand? Even if you assume that that's not entirely accurate, or that Knight Worlds and such may be counted, that's still a LOT of Titan Legions.

 

EDIT: Titan Legions aren't necessarily that big, though.

[Lord Tybault]

Ritual scars? Hm... I vote for not having every tiny litle bit of information made into something it isn't. And, like Ecritter wrote, rotual scras aren't indicative of geneseed.

 

Anyway, we're also talking about devotion. My original idea was that each warrior would have different kinds of litanies inscribed upon his armor: battle litanies, devotional litanies and, above all, a personal litany each battle-brother wrote on his won and which exemplifies what his life is meaning, what his special motives are, which sacrifices he's gonna make and which oaths he swore. At least something like that. maybe we could even delve into the realm of proper rituals and specifiy the most common or important ritual the chapter has?

[Argon]

Keep in mind - there may be fewer Marine Chapters than Titan Legions.

 

While there are only a thousand Marine Chapters, most Forge Worlds have one or more Titan Legions (according to Lexicanum, at least).

 

10% of Imperial Planets are Forge Worlds. That means there are about a hundred thousand? Even if you assume that that's not entirely accurate, or that Knight Worlds and such may be counted, that's still a LOT of Titan Legions.

 

EDIT: Titan Legions aren't necessarily that big, though.

 

 

From what I can gather from Lexicanum and the sources I have access to, it seems like only the Forge Worlds of some importance have a Titan Leigon. Lexicanum's list of Titan Leigons names 23 loyal leigons.

 

 

 

Ritual scars? Hm... I vote for not having every tiny litle bit of information made into something it isn't. And, like Ecritter wrote, ritual scars aren't indicative of geneseed.

 

 

Well, I did say it was a personal theory and not a very good one at that .

 

 

 

 

Anyway, we're also talking about devotion. My original idea was that each warrior would have different kinds of litanies inscribed upon his armor: battle litanies, devotional litanies and, above all, a personal litany each battle-brother wrote on his own and which exemplifies what his life is meaning, what his special motives are, which sacrifices he's gonna make and which oaths he swore. At least something like that. maybe we could even delve into the realm of proper rituals and specifiy the most common or important ritual the chapter has?

 

 

The personal litany sounds sort of like a record of deeds. Basically "I am Brother XXXX of the Marines Exemplar, and this is what I've done.", right?

[Aurelius Rex]

...

 

10% of Imperial Planets are Forge Worlds. That means there are about a hundred thousand? Even if you assume that that's not entirely accurate, or that Knight Worlds and such may be counted, that's still a LOT of Titan Legions.

 

...

That sounds like a staggeringly high figure! Where does that stat come from - the admittedly handy, but unreliable Lexicanum? :wub: Sure, forge worlds get talked about in 40K fiction a lot, and are probably used / mentioned in about 10% of campaigns and the like, but I would say that it's more to do with them being seen as important and valuable places to fight over. Instead, my 'picking numbers out of the air' estimate would be that there are scores, or pushing it, low hundreds of forge worlds, with admittedly higher numbers of knight worlds. :tu:

[Lord Tybault]

Well, I did say it was a personal theory and not a very good one at that .

Ah, overlooked that. Hard to get all the facts with so many posts and people posting them around...

 

 

The personal litany sounds sort of like a record of deeds. Basically "I am Brother XXXX of the Marines Exemplar, and this is what I've done.", right?

Not quite... rather something like the following:

 

+ 'Lo, there do I see my Enemy.

+ Eager to kill and defile.

+ 'Lo, there do I see my Primarch

+ And my Brothers standing beside me.

+ 'Lo, there do I see the Line of my Chapter

+ Back to the Beginning.

+ 'Lo, they do call to me.

+ They bid me take my Place among them

+ In the Halls of Heroes

+ Where the Brave may live forever.

 

Admitted, it's ppretty obvious where I got it from but it simply presented itself. We can always change it to something more fitting of course - something more personal and original.

[Ecritter]

Nice movie quote ;)

[Lord Tybault]

Nice movie quote ;)

It's NOT a quote, I'm not that dull. It resembles the original wording pretty much, yes. But technically it's only a working hypothesis anyway.

[Shinzaren]

Antonio Banderas would be proud ;)

[Argon]

The personal litany sounds sort of like a record of deeds. Basically "I am Brother XXXX of the Marines Exemplar, and this is what I've done.", right?

Not quite... rather something like the following:

 

+ 'Lo, there do I see my Enemy.

+ Eager to kill and defile.

+ 'Lo, there do I see my Primarch

+ And my Brothers standing beside me.

+ 'Lo, there do I see the Line of my Chapter

+ Back to the Beginning.

+ 'Lo, they do call to me.

+ They bid me take my Place among them

+ In the Halls of Heroes

+ Where the Brave may live forever.

 

Admitted, it's ppretty obvious where I got it from but it simply presented itself. We can always change it to something more fitting of course - something more personal and original.

 

You got it from a movie, apparently. I have no idea which one <_< .

 

 

So it's basically a personal Badass Creed? That sounds pretty cool.

[Ecritter]

Argon, watch 13th Warrior.

[Lord Tybault]

You got it from a movie, apparently. I have no idea which one :D .

One of the coolest ever made - indeed it was '13th Warrior'.

 

 

So it's basically a personal Badass Creed? That sounds pretty cool.

Every day learning something new... Yes indeed, a badass Creed is what i was referring to. After all an Astartes is a superhuman BADASS killing machine, right? ;)

[Captain Apollo]

so guys are we also going to put what i said earlier about their Demeanor? About them being quiet and reserved in personality and long range combat but Lions and boarder line Beserkers in close combat. Also I was wondering if they would have any Artifacts from their parent Chapter, anything to link them to their Primarch, who ever we finally decide that is, if we havent already lol. In this part i would see they being more partially to skulls, seeing as their symbol is a skull. Sorry if this is a little off topic but i just thought we could maybe shed some light on these things before the IA came out.

[Lord Tybault]

Either way we're still talking about beliefs so how about we outline one very specific ritual that exemplifies the nature of the chapter - for want of a btter name I call it the "Ritual of Cleansing":

 

Each battlebrother is constanly fighting against Chaos and putting himself - and esepcially his soul - at risk of being subdued and overtaken apart from being killed and/or ripped apart. They of course steel themselves due various meditation excercises and prayers, ward themselves with faith and litanies, but they also need to rid themselves of the corrupting and malign influence of the Chaotic Powers.

Therefore, each battlebrother undergoes a specific ritual after each deployment to cleanse himself and make his body and soul pure again. Whil his armor and weapons are cleaned, repaired and resanctified, the battlebrother first gets himself anointed with sacred oils and afterwards takes a bath in holy water. The duration of that bath is depnding upon the duration of his earlier deployment and the intensity of his contact with the enemy.

Once that is done, the battlebrother clads himself in his usual chapter garbs and undergoes a lenghty and straining confession before his company chaplain or, in more dire circumstances, before a Reclusiarch or the Master of Sanctity himself. He will then be judged and either absolved or be assigned a personal penance by the respective chaplain before he is judged pure (and therefore combat-worthy) again. This of course does include personal prayer sessions between each part of the ritual.

 

What do you guys think?

[Argon]

Either way we're still talking about beliefs so how about we outline one very specific ritual that exemplifies the nature of the chapter - for want of a btter name I call it the "Ritual of Cleansing":

 

Each battlebrother is constanly fighting against Chaos and putting himself - and esepcially his soul - at risk of being subdued and overtaken apart from being killed and/or ripped apart. They of course steel themselves due various meditation excercises and prayers, ward themselves with faith and litanies, but they also need to rid themselves of the corrupting and malign influence of the Chaotic Powers.

Therefore, each battlebrother undergoes a specific ritual after each deployment to cleanse himself and make his body and soul pure again. Whil his armor and weapons are cleaned, repaired and resanctified, the battlebrother first gets himself anointed with sacred oils and afterwards takes a bath in holy water. The duration of that bath is depnding upon the duration of his earlier deployment and the intensity of his contact with the enemy.

Once that is done, the battlebrother clads himself in his usual chapter garbs and undergoes a lenghty and straining confession before his company chaplain or, in more dire circumstances, before a Reclusiarch or the Master of Sanctity himself. He will then be judged and either absolved or be assigned a personal penance by the respective chaplain before he is judged pure (and therefore combat-worthy) again. This of course does include personal prayer sessions between each part of the ritual.

 

What do you guys think?

 

That sounds pretty good. What would "usual chapter garb" be?

[Lord Tybault]

That sounds pretty good. What would "usual chapter garb" be?

 

In this case I'm taking my inspiration from the Bl books and comics, but real-life knightly order as well. No marine would constantly be in his power armor - the power supply gets exhausted and needs replacement, it gets damaged and needs repair etc. Therefore I think it's totally fitting and appropriate that the battlebrothers wear "only" cowls when not in combat to not wear down the equipment too much - and also do display a certain humility if you will. Not running around like an incarnate god of war all the time makes oneself somewhat humble I'd reckon.

[Argon]

That sounds pretty good. What would "usual chapter garb" be?

 

In this case I'm taking my inspiration from the Bl books and comics, but real-life knightly order as well. No marine would constantly be in his power armor - the power supply gets exhausted and needs replacement, it gets damaged and needs repair etc. Therefore I think it's totally fitting and appropriate that the battlebrothers wear "only" cowls when not in combat to not wear down the equipment too much - and also do display a certain humility if you will. Not running around like an incarnate god of war all the time makes oneself somewhat humble I'd reckon.

 

I'm going to assume you mean cowl as in "robe", not cowl as in "hood".

 

 

Alright. I'll see how I can include the ritual into the beliefs section. It would probably make a lovely sidebox if nothing else.

[Lord Tybault]

I'm going to assume you mean cowl as in "robe", not cowl as in "hood".

Yup - "robe" was the word I was looking for. Some robes might be hooded, though. :)

 

 

Alright. I'll see how I can include the ritual into the beliefs section. It would probably make a lovely sidebox if nothing else.

Whatever fits the bill. Just wanted to add some more substance myself and this is what I thought about when contemplating beliefs of the chapter.

[Argon]

So, would you guys say we're done with the Beliefs section?

 

If so, what should we work on next?

[Lord Tybault]

So, would you guys say we're done with the Beliefs section?

We have general beliefs, fleshed it out a bit, have shed some light on one of the most important rituals... I do have something in mind for the chaplains, but I think it'll fit better into the Organization/Combat Doctrine sections, so I'll skip it for the moment.

 

 

If so, what should we work on next?

Maybe we should do it chronologically? Not sure how we'd go about origins, though, to be honest... But I think we could tackle Organization next.

[Captain Apollo]

as for organization, seeing as these guys are the first line of defense against black crusades and what not, they should have an extremely flexible company organization in order to deal with all situations, like being attacked by hordes of specialist daemons and chaos marines and not being able to have reinforcements for long periods of time. It was also stated that they were dispersed across a wide range of combat theaters during the 13th Black Crusade ,so my idea is that they have a very independent company structure that allows them to fight alone for long periods of time, like having terminator squads (say first squad of every battle company) be integrated in the company chain of command and roster, this would allow them to deal with a multitude of situations with out waiting for first company reinforcements when some terminators are needed, i got the idea from when Garviel Loken lead his company in the Whisper Head action. We can also have a larger number of specialists in order to be completely flexible and be the leaders and mentors of the initiates during such an occasion when that specialty will be needed in a confusing and chaotic battlefield.

[Argon]

Maybe we should do it chronologically? Not sure how we'd go about origins, though, to be honest... But I think we could tackle Organization next.

 

Origins really only answers two questions:

 

1. When was your chapter created?

2. Why were they created?

 

 

In our case, we could go a little bit into the Astartes Praeses, but not to any real depth.

 

 

Organization is pretty well covered. Other than the Librarians and Chaplains in each company, they're a codex chapter.

 

The only real question I can think of would be if they have two chapter masters like the White Consuls do. I'm inclined to go with "no", because if there were two chapter masters I'd think the death of Absolon wouldn't have been that much of a problem. They would have only required an immediate interim successor in that case.

 

That, and it just makes things easier on us. :D

[Lord Tybault]

In our case, we could go a little bit into the Astartes Praeses, but not to any real depth.

Then maybe better leave it as is. We don't really know anything and what could we possibly make up?

 

 

Organization is pretty well covered. Other than the Librarians and Chaplains in each company, they're a codex chapter.

Fair enough. That's settled then.

 

 

The only real question I can think of would be if they have two chapter masters like the White Consuls do. I'm inclined to go with "no", because if there were two chapter masters I'd think the death of Absolon wouldn't have been that much of a problem. They would have only required an immediate interim successor in that case.

Unlikely given the fluff we have. I don't recall the Consuls having two, but certainly that is a pretty big exception.

 

So it's Combat Doctrine after all, eh?

[Argon]

In our case, we could go a little bit into the Astartes Praeses, but not to any real depth.

Then maybe better leave it as is. We don't really know anything and what could we possibly make up?

 

Maybe just a little history thing and how the Exemplars figure into it. Nothing fancy. Given that we're really building them around the fact they guard the Eye of Terror, it probably wouldn't hurt.

 

Organization is pretty well covered. Other than the Librarians and Chaplains in each company, they're a codex chapter.

Fair enough. That's settled then.

 

It wouldn't be a bad idea to refine it a bit.

 

 

 

The only real question I can think of would be if they have two chapter masters like the White Consuls do. I'm inclined to go with "no", because if there were two chapter masters I'd think the death of Absolon wouldn't have been that much of a problem. They would have only required an immediate interim successor in that case.

Unlikely given the fluff we have. I don't recall the Consuls having two, but certainly that is a pretty big exception.

 

It's in Dark Creed. Because they're also a Praeses chapter, they have one chapter master with the marines around the Eye of Terror and one on their homeworld.

 

 

So it's Combat Doctrine after all, eh?

 

Maybe. I think we should refine Organization a little bit first.

[Lord Tybault]

Maybe just a little history thing and how the Exemplars figure into it. Nothing fancy. Given that we're really building them around the fact they guard the Eye of Terror, it probably wouldn't hurt.

Hm... So something like: "Cadia as a first line of defence was suitable enough against "regular" incursions from the Eye, but against a full-fledged Black Crusade even a world like Cadia couldn't have hope to hold out. Therefore the High Lords decreed that a number of Astartes chapters be stationed in the vicinity of the Eye to support regular Imperial forces in that event. Some of these chapters are even rumoured to have been specifically created for that task, although their ancenstry and very much everything else has been forgotten by now." - Just a quick sketch.

 

 

It wouldn't be a bad idea to refine it a bit.

That's why I asked if we would tackle Organization next because I felt it could use some refining. The Codex Chapter part restricts us, though. What exactly would you refine?

 

 

It's in Dark Creed. Because they're also a Praeses chapter, they have one chapter master with the marines around the Eye of Terror and one on their homeworld.

I haven't read it, but that doesn't make much sense either. Surely every chapter master has a second-in-command who is more than capable to ensure matters are attended to in his absence. Why would a Praeses chapter need two chapter masters? If there's an authority issue the chapter master is at the front line and his representative is in charge of training, replacement and everything else that needs to be done on the homeworld. Is there an explanation given?