GW's New Blood Angels FAQ

[Kapitalist-Pig]

Thank you James you said exactly what I wanted you to. Now that we know that "use" is part of the arugment, lets say I have a character that runs at init 6 and I get to use FC, does that mean the entire squad gets the bonus then?

 

Most people will answer no, for the main reason that you have to wait for the init of the model.

 

Lets take it one step further, I will quote from both C:BA and CRB and you tell me how the wording is different.

 

"C:BA Liturgies of Blood page 42: On a player turn in which he assaults, a chaplain and all members of any squad he has joined can re-roll failed rolls to hit. Models in a Death Company can also re-roll failed rolls to wound."

 

"CRB Universal Special Rules Page 74: Furious Charge: Models with this skill are known for the wild ferocity of thier assaults. In a turn in which they assaulted into combat they add +1 to both their Initiative and strength characteristics when attacking in close combat."

 

Neither mention that these abilities are lost if the model is lost in combat, neither of these have added stipulation. To even question that is to try and find some way of screwing the people who play with those rules.

 

And Yes I do understand that they need to be in range to gain the bonus, but I again say that you measure at the start of the assault move, for if any model with FC has charged they gain the bonuses period. It is already part of thier stat line no wiggle room.

 

Again I really do appriciate the dialouge. To see others thought and try to look at it from a different point of view is most refreshing and enjoyable.

[Emperors Immortals]

Very glad this had been issued, a little disapointed about Dread libbies though - but at least i can still take heavy flamers or the shotgun thingy.

 

Awesome :)

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Now I am a little bit confused. If I charge a unit with Ini 6 and this unit kills my priest does this mean my unit will still geht the benefits of FC or not? Same example with a chaplain it should be no problem to benefit from his abilities even he dies before I can put out my attacks as the wording is different. Help me! ;)

[JamesI]

Now I am a little bit confused. If I charge a unit with Ini 6 and this unit kills my priest does this mean my unit will still geht the benefits of FC or not? Same example with a chaplain it should be no problem to benefit from his abilities even he dies before I can put out my attacks as the wording is different. Help me! ;)

This is sadly not clear, but based on the wording of the FAQ, it seems the unit would not get furious charge.

[Tame]

Very glad this had been issued, a little disapointed about Dread libbies though - but at least i can still take heavy flamers or the shotgun thingy.

 

Can you really ?

[vahouth]

Very glad this had been issued, a little disapointed about Dread libbies though - but at least i can still take heavy flamers or the shotgun thingy.

 

Awesome :P

 

I don't think you can bro.

[JamesI]

Very glad this had been issued, a little disapointed about Dread libbies though - but at least i can still take heavy flamers or the shotgun thingy.

 

Can you really ?

I don't think you can.

[daboarder]

I thought the faq meant that the range for FC was measured after movement of charges but before attacks are made.

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Now I am a little bit confused. If I charge a unit with Ini 6 and this unit kills my priest does this mean my unit will still geht the benefits of FC or not? Same example with a chaplain it should be no problem to benefit from his abilities even he dies before I can put out my attacks as the wording is different. Help me! :P

This is sadly not clear, but based on the wording of the FAQ, it seems the unit would not get furious charge.

 

Oh, I think I finally got it. :) I think you are right James, the wording seems to point heavily in that direction. Hm, so I have to keep an eye even more on my priest.

 

Cheers

Sang

[Sanguinarian]

Firstly, the FAQ states that Libby Dreads cannot take any extra gear.

 

As far as when the SP dies is irrelevant being that the effect is already granted if the unit meets the requirements and since there is no further statement stopping the effect once activated. Melee happens simultaneously, we just slow it down to Initiative order so we can resolve the outcome. Our I5 troops, and the enemy I5 troops are not standing around watching and waiting for the I6-7-8-9-10 to go first. It is a whirlwind of combat and the cause of FC is really from the blood in the Chalice more so from the SP himself (maybe).

 

Next, anything not spelled out or defined in our codex (C:BA) is in the BRB, and the SP insert should then simply be added to it for our guys that have Red Thirst tendencies.

[SamaNagol]

The FAQ with regards to the Sanguinary Priest is counter-intuitive. But it is now law so that's how it runs.

 

You only measure for Furious Charge at the point when you are rolling attacks. Logicially it should be at the point you make your Assault move, as this is when it is 'activated' in the USR. However the BA FAQ now makes a special case for them when using the Blood Chalice.

[Kapitalist-Pig]

Ahh but FAQ are not rules, they are anwsers to questions that are asked. Errata's are rule changes. Therefor, we could argue that we could ignore that question and anwser based on the fact it is an FAQ not an errata.

 

Not to mention that all the FAQ states is that we are to measure when we are useing FC, applying th bonuses happens after all requirements of FC happen. Since there is no entry in C:BA for FC you must look at the BRB and read it from there.

[SamaNagol]

These aren't FAQs, they are 'Official Updates'

[Kapitalist-Pig]

Actually if you look at the document, there is an Errata section and an FAQ section clearly defined. Sticking making the two different sections completely different. It is fine that it is an offical update because the Errata section would then be called into question. FAQ's are not rule changes since they are question that are fequently asked. Errata's change the rules/specific profiles of things in the book.

[nurglez]

Says the dread libby cant take equipment, i was under the impression that there was a difference between equipment and weapons.

[SamaNagol]

Doesn't matter what it says inside the document. If the title is 'Official Update' that :D is an official update.

[Kapitalist-Pig]

Actually what is inside the document, and the catagories do matter, ortherwise it would all be Errata. Plus I have not seen any questions inside any Codex. So to say that what is inside the catagories inside the Update does not matter is fallacious.

[Brother Landrain]

Firstly, the FAQ states that Libby Dreads cannot take any extra gear.

 

It actually is specific in saying...

 

Can a Furioso Librarian take additional equipment(such as extra armour)?

 

While in the codex it says...

 

Replace one Bloodfist(and built in weapon) with: FragCannon

Replace Storm Bolter with Heavy Flamer

 

It can be argued that a Replacement is NOT additional equipment.

 

While I think the additional equipment restriction is stupid, they were specific, and as such... RAW...

If they wanted all Fury Libs to be the same, they should have asked, "Can a Fury Lib modify its wargear after the upgrade?"

[Brother Landrain]

Actually if you look at the document, there is an Errata section and an FAQ section clearly defined. Sticking making the two different sections completely different. It is fine that it is an offical update because the Errata section would then be called into question. FAQ's are not rule changes since they are question that are fequently asked. Errata's change the rules/specific profiles of things in the book.

 

Eratta --- These are actual literal changes to the EXACT wording of the original Document. Correcting Typographical or Content errors.

 

The Mephiston eratta, is a content change/clarification

 

The SP erratta, is a TYPO error, two words were transposed.

 

FAQ's -- frequently asked questions, are actual RULINGS and CLARIFICATIONS of the way that the rules are intended to work.

 

Combined, these are all OFFICIAL RULINGS as per Games Workshop, and their version of 40K.

(this does not mean you have to use them in private games, but in a pickup game, expect others to use them, and at tournaments expect them to be used.)

 

If they were not, they would have a disclaimer, as seen of the Forgeworld Datasheets...

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i think they didn't want to change the wording of the rule, but they were afraid of saying anything that made it seem like, any unit that was within 6" of the SP at any time during the turn or assault phase had FC. how would you keep track and how easily could an unscrupulous player take advantage of such a rule? so they basicly said with their ruling, you measure after assault moves have been made. now, why they didn't just change the rule to, "after all assault moves have been made, but before any attacks, if a unit is within 6" of the SP, it gains FC for the remainder of the assault phase."

 

i honestly don't know why they even bothered to faq that particular question when they put so little thought into the wording of their answer.

[The Mangler]

I actually don't think it is worded that badly.

 

"CRB Universal Special Rules Page 74: Furious Charge: Models with this skill are known for the wild ferocity of thier assaults. In a turn in which they assaulted into combat they add +1 to both their Initiative and strength characteristics when attacking in close combat."

 

Neither mention that these abilities are lost if the model is lost in combat, neither of these have added stipulation. To even question that is to try and find some way of screwing the people who play with those rules.

 

You have to have the furious charge ability to gain the bonuses from furious charge. Once you are no longer within in 6 inches of the priest, or he is dead, you do not have the furious charge ability any more so you cannot claim the stats modifiers.

 

There are two requirements that need to be fulfilled when you would be using the stat bonus. You need to have charged and you need to have the furious charge universal special rule if either of these don't apply anymore you cannot claim the bonus.

[Kapitalist-Pig]

yes but in the BRB the FC rule stats that after a unit with this ability has assaulted, in that turn they gain. So the buff is immeadiate after the move has been made.

 

To that affect you have to go to the BRB in order to figure out whether they gain the bonuse, as long as they have one guy in range at the end of the assault move. This whole non-sense about applying the bonus when it is used is subjective at best. One could argue that since all the requirements of the FC have been meet up to the point, right before any attacks are made all the bonuses are applied.

 

Not to sound redundent, but if you have to wait to apply the bonuses to the unit, then you do not ever!!!!!!! get the bonus Init because you have to go down to Init 4 before you can apply the bonus. Therefor, making it just a strength modifier.

[Grey Mage]

yes but in the BRB the FC rule stats that after a unit with this ability has assaulted, in that turn they gain. So the buff is immeadiate after the move has been made.

 

To that affect you have to go to the BRB in order to figure out whether they gain the bonuse, as long as they have one guy in range at the end of the assault move. This whole non-sense about applying the bonus when it is used is subjective at best. One could argue that since all the requirements of the FC have been meet up to the point, right before any attacks are made all the bonuses are applied.

 

Not to sound redundent, but if you have to wait to apply the bonuses to the unit, then you do not ever!!!!!!! get the bonus Init because you have to go down to Init 4 before you can apply the bonus. Therefor, making it just a strength modifier.

Yep- you dont want until you strike to apply the bonuses- you apply them as soon as you know the assault move will successfully bring you into contact with the enemy.

[Brother Landrain]

Here is my Problem with the new Ruling on the Sanguinary Priest...

Looking at the first picture, we have two squads converging on a mass of Orks. By Current big book rules, we would only have FC and FNP on the top squad.

The lower squad is too far away.

The SP is attached to the top squad as it is within 2in at end of movement...

Declaring charges, both charge the orks. The order of the movement and from where to wear is shown.

The bottom squad moves first...

The top squad moves next, following all assault movement rules..

Now, Since the SP cannot get into BtB contact, it must move within 2 inches of a squad member in BtB...

It is now ALSO within 6 inches of BOTH squads...

Both squads get FNP and FC...

Is this what they really want?

Also... part of the wording really disturbs me... It is about FC.

BRB.pg75.col1.par4 "In a turn in which they assaulted into combat..."

So in my example... the lower squad, assaulted into combat, but.. they didnt have FC when they moved... so did a squad with this ability actually assault?

It seems counter to normal rules...

Normal: You get this (+1I+1Str), when you do that(assault), when you have this (FC)...

Now: you do that (assault), then you get this (FC), which then gives this (+1I, +1Str)...

[Sanguinarian]

Here is my Problem with the new Ruling on the Sanguinary Priest...

Looking at the first picture, we have two squads converging on a mass of Orks. By Current big book rules, we would only have FC and FNP on the top squad.

The lower squad is too far away.

The SP is attached to the top squad as it is within 2in at end of movement...

Declaring charges, both charge the orks. The order of the movement and from where to wear is shown.

The bottom squad moves first...

The top squad moves next, following all assault movement rules..

Now, Since the SP cannot get into BtB contact, it must move within 2 inches of a squad member in BtB...

It is now ALSO within 6 inches of BOTH squads...

Both squads get FNP and FC...

Is this what they really want?

Also... part of the wording really disturbs me... It is about FC.

BRB.pg75.col1.par4 "In a turn in which they assaulted into combat..."

So in my example... the lower squad, assaulted into combat, but.. they didnt have FC when they moved... so did a squad with this ability actually assault?

It seems counter to normal rules...

Normal: You get this (+1I+1Str), when you do that(assault), when you have this (FC)...

Now: you do that (assault), then you get this (FC), which then gives this (+1I, +1Str)...

I gotta ask why the debate over semantics? If you are a Blood Angels player, that is the way it has always worked. Read pgs.48&49 in C:BA, especially the little exerpts entitled "BLOOD CHALICE" & "THE RED GRAIL" for insight as to why FC and/or FNP only goes into effect once we move within range of either.