New FAQ!on gw website!

[HsojVvad]

\But w.e. hope GW hears us out and gets us new book or white dwarf or PDF fixing things. for a quick start. or w.e.

You do know that GW can nerf the DA, and just make you pissed off because they take too much away without giving anything.

 

Becareful for what you ask for.

 

On another thought. Funny GW finally does something, and does what people ask for and people still complain. Guess you can never please everyone

all the time. So it's a hit and miss, no wonder GW took too long to do anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Gealgain]

I've been playing DW for about 2 years now, faithfully weathering salvoes of incoming fire on my first company.

I wonder how many will call me bandwagon or cheesy now?

[The Shadow Guard]

On another thought. Funny GW finally does something, and does what people ask for and people still complain. Guess you can never please everyone

all the time. So it's a hit and miss, no wonder GW took too long to do anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

 

You can never pelase everyone...someone is always bound to complain. It's actually alright to complain, providing there is substance to the complaint. I guess, I too belong to that section this time around ... It's a change from my routine of defending GWs efforst with the DA from the upgrades for third edition, the inception of the DA 4th ed codex and the coming of the fifth I have generally been suppportive of GWs direction and against what i belive to be unfair complaints.

 

However this update is great.... but the fact that it addresses ony some of the issues in a random manner gives the appearance that it was a half hearted afterthought to me. Perhaps they were simply responding to the most vocal complaints as a stop gap.

 

everytime a DA Codex or Updae was released my gut feeling was always very positive but sadly this time around there is a sense of emptiness.., a feeling of the DA being left in the wilderness... of expected reinforcements that never turned up.... I am sure it will pass. :lol:

 

In the meantime we will make do with what we have, as always, and what we have not is certainly a lot better than what we had a couple of months ago! :lol:

 

SG

[publius]

In regards to the FAQ, there are a couple of things that can be taken away from this. The first is modernizing. Landraider Crusaders got boosted MASSIVELY with the addition of the BS 4 PotMS. This will make them a much more (and less expensive then their C:SM counterpart) useful item for 250 points. Cyclone and TH/SS options have become very useful, as you can have Termies now with mole whackers w spray shields and Missiles and not feel too cheated. Typhoons with free multi meltas are a bonus with the fact that even with the points they are still cheaper then their C:SM counterparts (these are really great for scaring the hell out of your opponent).

 

This is less obvious, but the normal Land Raider has been boosted as well by the PotMS. So many times when I've played Deathwing, have I wanted to move 6'' or 12'', and being able to fire two lascannons at two targets, or one lascannon while moving full speed, is huge.

 

I like taking normal Land Raiders in my Deathwing, partially because the current metagame in 40k has resulted in more and more "big nasties", really tough characters or vehicles, rather than in more troops, so I can often win a game if I can deal with it. Lascannons are better suited for this sort of thing. Plus, the LRC's optimal range is from 12-24'', but sometimes it's better to deal with armies at a distance. Cyclone launchers and Lascannons are great when keeping your opponent at 48'' arm's length.

[krewl]

I don't understand the ay you feel The Shadow Guard. Why the sad face when you get 50% of the stuff that is rong with your codex fixed?

Even if 50% is still there not resolved, it is also 50% which is fixed.

 

I know things like scouts in elites (Fine by me, but the wargear options need the fix, rifles, homers and cloaks etc.) annoy you, but Naaman would be an extra SC, and him moving scouts to troops would be a re-write issue. You are talking new codex big changes here while GW did the following; Let's make all wargear for marines work the same, and not touch prizes.

 

That gives some shifts and benefits yeah, but it improves DA a lot. (Mostly the wings though).

 

I feel GW was burned so much on the BA pf codex we can forget that ever happening again. So as far as pre-new-codex changes this ammounts to what I about expected to be the maximum attainable. Does this solve evryones issues? Nope, obviously not. Does this make DA an army to take to a tournament table again? I know I will!

 

I think the motivation behind what they updated was to make general play easier. (A bolter is a bolter is a bolter makes for better play then trying to keep the 24 varioations of ruls for the same landraider in your mind.) So equalise wargear.

 

So next would be price changing. That would account for playtesting and re-balancing. I think they just said "forget it lets not open that can of worms that the same army can be more expensive or less depending on the FAQ (version) you use" and they just accepted some prices would be off (cheaper like the CML we have or more expensive like the drop pod and razor). As GW is not that much about tournaments I imagine they see that as balancing eachother out as well, not realiing tournament players would use the plus side to the maximum and go codex SM for the other options.

 

The 3rd would be rules updates. again a step closer to actualy writing a new codex. Fixing the drop pods rules, Ravenwing turbo boosting, adding a weapon option on the razorbacks, dreads and venerable, etc. etc.

 

4th step would be the be-all and end-all of updating, adding characters, FOC changes, special rules. They have a process for that called "Buy this new codex", :wacko: and thus that will never be in a new PDF FAQ document.

 

On the deathwing squads, yes ours are 15 points more expensive, but for that they get:

- Deathwing assault, which is great because you CAN use it but you don't HAVE TO, which after playtesting is way better then HAVING to drop the same % of drop pods I can tell you.

- You get fearless, also great boon as your army does what you want and when I lose CC with all those S8 powerweapons I am probable at my last guy anyways, and about fearles saves, I have a 2+. So who cares about it?

- Also you get the option to mix CC termie gear in with shooty gear. Again a great add on. easing wound allocation through unique models, opening the 3++ save for you in every squad, still giving the CC troops a gun worth shooting in the CML hile walking up to the enemy for stomping.

- And last, you will want the CML as the heavy and it is 10 points cheaper then the codex SM guys get it (Or BA or SW) so all this you get for just 5 points!

 

In short I feel you are looking at this from a glass half empty perspective, which I must ad we are not used to from you. It surprised me a bit.

[FerociousBeast]

Well, to attempt to explain The Shadow Guard's perspective (not that he needs my help, but I'm typing right now and he isn't :D), he's probably a power-armor Dark Angel player. Like I am. If you're into the Greenwing, you don't get much from this FAQ at all.

 

I'm not personally complaining because the changes are positive and I'll take what I can get, and at the very least this new FAQ signifies a very welcome about-face in GW philosophy. But it doesn't help the army I have very much, and I'd imagine the same is true of TSG's.

[krewl]

That I get, beeing a mainly TDA addict and bikes aswell DA has been my army from 2nd. (Tried SM bikers, not the stuff for me) tried loganwing in pure TDA that also does not work very well. mixed loganwing does work but is not for the Terminator fans here :D )

 

Greenwing get's little out of this, that much is true. however the FAQ is still a good thing cause it solves several things.

The things it does not solve would be what has been mentioned before and mainly affects greenwing. But why not play using some wing parts?

Greenwing with Bels as captain (Still steal for his points) 2 or 3 TDA squads, some LS tornadoes, Rhino's with a 5pts extra SB on it, those kind of things added to your list would improve your army aswell. Greenwing is not religiously about only the PA marins in rhino's I might hope?

Cheap ven dreads with TL Lascannon and a scoring TDA squad with the apoth in it and a cml will add to your ranged firepower, adding a massive ressilience element (And firepower sokr if you are lucky, in your list, meched tacticals would survivive even longer. A landraider with a c squad inside and belial with claws would ad to ranged firepower again while providing a massive counter hgarge element.

 

In short I think with some wing elements your greenwing will also be buffed to improve your greenwing based lists. I'm sorry to derail into list building a bit to much here, but that's the way my mind works on 40k. ;) In short I think ytou could build nice shooty but with strong CC element army using all wings which keeps versitility in all your units (Bit of CC and a bit of shooty in almost all units.)

 

I think that fits the DA "image" quite well.

[FerociousBeast]

My army is a themed army, focusing on a Battle Company-led strike force. I have written fluff and plotted out the major engagements encountered while on its campaign. I know exactly what elements are included in the strike force. Belial is not one of them :D

 

It's about the story and setting for me, and Belial+TroopTerminators doesn't fit the story or setting.

[krewl]

Then I can only wish you the best of luck. (Even if you are the master of your own fluff :D )

[The Shadow Guard]

I don't understand the ay you feel The Shadow Guard. Why the sad face when you get 50% of the stuff that is rong with your codex fixed? Even if 50% is still there not resolved, it is also 50% which is fixed.

 

In short I feel you are looking at this from a glass half empty perspective, which I must ad we are not used to from you. It surprised me a bit.

 

Well, as I said in my earlier post, I wanted to see what the Nay Sayers bandwagon looked like!! :cuss

 

I have no problems at all with what is in the Codex Update. It is what isn't there and what that signifies. To me, a half finished job is not job at all (very personal perspective). I was merely using the scouts to demonstrate this. The update contains a change to the scouts listing which essentially clarifies the fact that the sergeant may also take a sniper rifle ("any scout being changed to any model) but the sergeant still cannot take a teleport homer... which for a chapter containing more than 100 TDA suits is ridiculous. I hope you see what i mean...

 

The overall DA Codex is certainly better than what it was before the update with little downside.... but it is still half done....

 

The DA, I feel above all, need the army list to reflect their background fluff and the true spirit of the unforgiven. This can be done without maing the army verly powerful but by clever rules. I just get the feeling that the wings were fixed as those are what most of the attention was.... but the true spirit of the DA lies in the Greenwing supported by elements of the DW and RW...

 

So, I do see that the glass is half full... but am disappointed that they didn't take the time to make it nearly full.... afterall a half full glass = half empty glass when multiplied twice makes a full glass empty!! :P :devil:

 

SG

 

 

My army is a themed army, focusing on a Battle Company-led strike force. I have written fluff and plotted out the major engagements encountered while on its campaign. I know exactly what elements are included in the strike force. Belial is not one of them :lol:

 

It's about the story and setting for me, and Belial+TroopTerminators doesn't fit the story or setting.

 

FB thanks for stepping in.... you got my sentiments entirely right too..:lol:

[Master Avoghai]

Well I think that the funniest thing about seeing our dear SG jumpping in the naysayers bandwagon is that you used to be one of the most zealous defenders of the codex... Even after the codex : SM when everybody saw in which proportion DA were nerfed and ho difficult it was for the conceptors to justify....

 

So it looks strange to see you complaining about half of the job remaining undone after saying so many times that everything was fine and that our codex perfectly represents how a marine army should work.

 

Note there's no anger or bitter tone in my post... Like we say in France, only dumb people never change their mind...

 

Welcome in the bandwagon, I've your place warm :)

[The Shadow Guard]

Well I think that the funniest thing about seeing our dear SG jumpping in the naysayers bandwagon is that you used to be one of the most zealous defenders of the codex... Even after the codex : SM when everybody saw in which proportion DA were nerfed and ho difficult it was for the conceptors to justify....

 

So it looks strange to see you complaining about half of the job remaining undone after saying so many times that everything was fine and that our codex perfectly represents how a marine army should work.

 

Note there's no anger or bitter tone in my post... Like we say in France, only dumb people never change their mind...

 

Welcome in the bandwagon, I've your place warm :D

 

 

Tactical and strategic surprise is a hallmark of our most beloved primarch... a true nature of the unforgiven.... Just honing my skills!! :D :D

 

SG

[Wildfire]

Nice to see you guys got a bit of help. Not much of a DA fan myself, but I certainly am glad to see they aren't the bastard stepchild any more!

[GlauG]

I've been playing DW for about 2 years now, faithfully weathering salvoes of incoming fire on my first company.

I wonder how many will call me bandwagon or cheesy now?

 

 

 

I had a bit of this at the "Throne of Skulls" tourney at the weekend... despite being one of TWO DA players, everyone who saw the army first said "Oh, so you brought these guys because of the new FAQ Update?" despite the fact that the FAQ came out /after/ we had to send in our army selection... Infuriating. :sick:

[krewl]

Just do not let them get to you.

 

Regardless of how you decided to play Dark Angels, you have as much right to it as anyone.

- You want the loltastic 30 TH&SS termies list of doooooooooom? Fine.

- You are a Hell's Angel who wants a biker only army? Fine.

- You are a powerplayer squeezing every last drop of power from a points number? Fine.

- You are a Fluff fan who only plays with models he named individually based on the information from Black library books, and all their gear is in character even if useless? Again Fine.

- You are in DA just for the beautiful models and cause they can wear robes and look cool. Fine.

 

Even if you jumped on DA just now because of the new FAQ only, have no link to background or story and just want the best rules and models for the points, there is still nothing other people can say or do that would invalidate your choice for Dark Angels.

If others choose to have an in house shrine for the Lion that their business but in no way it will have any meaning on how you play your models bought with your money and painted with your time, paint and effort.

 

So if anyone DOES attack you for bandwagonning please inform they are not allowed to ever buy any other army ever again. As that would clearly be betraying the trust his curent little plastic men have laid into him right now. <_<

[Tanhausen]

I've been playing DW for about 2 years now, faithfully weathering salvoes of incoming fire on my first company.

I wonder how many will call me bandwagon or cheesy now?

 

 

 

I had a bit of this at the "Throne of Skulls" tourney at the weekend... despite being one of TWO DA players, everyone who saw the army first said "Oh, so you brought these guys because of the new FAQ Update?" despite the fact that the FAQ came out /after/ we had to send in our army selection... Infuriating. ^_^

 

"Yeah, I'm so smart and have so much inside GW information that I sent the list in advance of getting the FAQ... you know, DA are master of secrets"

[Isiah]

So if anyone DOES attack you for bandwagonning please inform they are not allowed to ever buy any other army ever again. As that would clearly be betraying the trust his curent little plastic men have laid into him right now. ;)

Aye especially if the accuser was a BA player ^_^ :( :lol:

 

Seriously I find these kinds of comments puerile and totally unnecessary. The whole hobby depends on the sale of models and new shiny stuff -- all influenced by their tabletop performance.

 

Of course if they were made with a wink and a grin then that's OK. Next up: Grey Knights hate ;) ?

 

 

Cheers

I

[krewl]

I don't doubt it.

 

I think we real grey knight players will be the ones with metal models, al the others EVER will be bandwagon jumping clones of lameness.

As we all know I and those with me who played GK when they where still a horrible old codex are the ones who really deserve it. So I suggest making the Inquisition forum closed and to grant current posters only access! That will do wonders for the hobby and everyones fun right?

 

 

 

(No! I do not mean that. Duh, but just in case someone misses that due to the internet not showing sarcasm. ;) )

[breng77]

I think we real grey knight players will be the ones with metal models, al the others EVER will be bandwagon jumping clones of lameness.

 

Or people who bought models cheap on ebay when the codex stunk :cuss

[Lion El Jason]

Well, when our codex was released I said it was poor. We have never had a good codex, indeed the DA codex has consistently been the weakest space marine codex out, arguably the weakest overall codex for much of the life of 40k from 2nd ed onwards.

There were myriad mistakes made with the DA dex, the worst I think was trying to make all the points values in multiples of 5. Great for adding up... but then so is a calculator. The downside? We pay 5 points for 2-4 point upgrades. These do add up. Its noticeable that our 1500 point "Sample army" in the back of the codex can be made in the vanilla codex and costs only ~1200points.

 

I think the fact this FAQ has done huge things for some of our wargear, options and the like and we're still probably the weakest SM codex says a lot.

However Pure Deathwing certainly are now a mid tier+ list, the new wargear gives some awesome abilities and adds a lot to the army.

Ravenwing too got some bonuses, though I wonder what I'm supposed to do with my 2 tempests now...

 

Overall I think the FAQ is a good move. Perhaps having taken this first step they will make an effort to update the FAQ to fix more and more issues... until our new codex late 2015.

[Lion El Jason]

On another note, I was in my local GW and someone said "Oh I see someone has started playing Dark Angels now the FAQ is out" and before I could reply at least 2 other people in the store pointed out I had been playing DA since the 80s.

 

It was good to see someone have to back down over this kind of thing thrown round with no real knowledge of the player.

[Master Avoghai]

On another note, I was in my local GW and someone said "Oh I see someone has started playing Dark Angels now the FAQ is out" and before I could reply at least 2 other people in the store pointed out I had been playing DA since the 80s.

Yeah it seems that some players can't imagine that some people actually played DA before the FAQ...

[LardO'Blood]

On another note, I was in my local GW and someone said "Oh I see someone has started playing Dark Angels now the FAQ is out" and before I could reply at least 2 other people in the store pointed out I had been playing DA since the 80s.

 

It was good to see someone have to back down over this kind of thing thrown round with no real knowledge of the player.

Erp. I'm afraid this will happen to me when I show up at the LGS for the first time...(Not that I've been playing DA since the 80s, but certainly since before the FAQ)

Oh well!

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Yeah. I had a player ask me if I started my Deathwing because they got their boost.

 

I just looked at him. The guy standing next to me replied for me. "Yeah, he just bought 'em last week, and built, converted, painted and based them all up in a few days." (I have a fully painted 2000 point DW list that I play often). Seriously, it doesn't annoy me that people think I'm a new player or anything, as that doesn't happen often (idiots aside). It annoys me that people believe the culture of Space Marine players is that we just play whatever is new. There are a lot of players that have stuck with their codex. When I see a fully painted Space Wolves list that has a lot of love in it, I don't just assume that he picked them up with the new codex. And if he did, power to him. His army is good looking, and he's having fun. What does it matter if he did buy them when the new codex came out?

[Isiah]

Actually there is nothing wrong with army-hopping. Folks are in this hobby for a variety of reason – all of them valid to the individuals concerned – including playing what they believe is the strongest codex in order to win (before the next 'strongest one' come along that is). That is all grist to the mill ...

 

... it's the snide comments that are not required.