Grey Knight Rumors Thread

[Marmande]

Updated summary as of 2/21/11 (All credit for compiling goes to Oiad):

 

Rumour Summary

 

Grey Knight Special Rules:

 

Aegis: Psykers targeting a squad with Aegis suffer -1 Ld. Psykers within 12" of a dreadnought with Reinforced Aegis suffer -4 Ld.

And They Shall Know No Fear

Combat Squads

Psyker Pilots

Brotherhood of Psykers

Psyker Mastery Levels: Character can use 1 psychic power per turn for each level (so 2 powers per turn at level 2).

Preferred Enemy: Daemons

 

========

 

Wargear:

 

Nemesis Weapons: Are Force Weapons which provide a +1 Invulnerable save in assault. In addition, one force weapon attack maybe cast per squad, per turn.

 

Upgrades can be taken for any squad with nemesis force weapons:

• Nemesis Daemonhammer: +1 Strength
  Nemesis Force Halberds: +1 Initiative.
  Nemesis Falchions: Force Lightning Claws.
  Nemesis Warding Stave: Power weapon that conveys a 2++ Invulnerable save.
  

Storm-bolters: As Storm-bolters. [Needs to confirmed but they may act as a pistol (extra +1A) in assault...]

Daemonhammer: A thunderhammer with Daemonbane.

Daemonbane: Re-roll to hit and wound against daemons.

Psycannon: Str 7 AP4 36" Assault 2/Heavy 3, Rending

Incinerator: Str 5 AP4 Template, Rending, Ignore Invulnerable saves

Psycannon 'Psyk' Bolts: Str 5 AP5, Assault 2

Psyk-Out Grenades: Reduce morale of the unit they assault.

 

========

 

Psychic Powers:

 

Hammer Hand: +1 strength in Close Combat

Warp Quake: Any deep striking unit that lands within 12" suffers automatic mishap.

Holocaust: S5 AP - Large Blast 12"

Unknown: Unit becomes Initiative 10

Warp-Rift: Template that auto removes models from play

The Summoning: A single friendly unit that is anywhere on the table is placed within 6" of the librarian and counts as deep striking.

Smite: As C:SM

Might of Titan: Beginning of librarians assault phase. Unit within 6" gains +1 str and extra D6 armour pen vs vehicles. Bonus is cumulative with hammer hand.

The Shrouding: Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" gain stealth (minimum 5+ cover in the open).

Mind Blades: Start of any assault phase. One enemy unit within 6" loses 1 toughness for the rest of the assault phase.

Vortex of Doom: As C:SM

Sanctuary: Enemy assault phase. Enemy units wishing to assault any Grey Knight within 12" of librarian must make a difficult AND dangerous terrain test.

Sanctified Flame (Grand Master Draigo Only): Shooting attack - Template, S5 (always wounds Daemons on 2+) AP -, Assault 1

Psychic Communion (Grandmaster and Captain only): Take a psychic test. If passed, you may modify any reserve rolls by + or -1.

Heroic Sacrifice (Brotherhood Champion only): In assault, when the champion dies take a psychic test. If passed, make one attack against any one model that was in B2B with him. If the attack hits, that model is instantly removed!

Cleansing Flame (Purifiers only): Start of any assault phase. All enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck with saving throws allowed. Casualties count towards combat resolution.

Astral Aim (Purgation Squad only): Shooting Phase. Unit and attached characters may fire at any unit in range and regardless of line of sight. Target automatically gets a 4+ cover save that cannot be modified.

Reconstruction (Techmarines only): Beginning of techmarine's movement. Re-roll any repair roll.

Fortitude (Vehicle only): At the start of Grey Knight player's turn, removes any shaken or stunned results.

Zone of Banishment (Captain Stern only): During Stern's assault phase. All models (friend, foe & even Stern) within 6" make a strength test or are removed from play. Daemons must re-roll passed tests.

 

========

 

Army List

 

HQ

Special Characters:

Supreme Grandmaster - Lord Kalgor Draigo: WS7 BS6 S5 T5 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv2+/3++ Points 275

Wargear: Titan Sword (Master-crafted force weapon with Daemonbane + strength 10 vs daemons and psykers), Storm Shield + Storm bolter(!), Frag, Krak, Psyk-out grenades

Special Rules: Independent Character, Grand Strategy, Psychic Mastery 2, Eternal Warrior, Fearless

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion, Sanctified Flame

Lord of Titan: Takes Paladins as troop choices.

 

Grand Master Vorth Mordrack: WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ 200 points

Wargear: Master-crafted Daemon hammer, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo

Special Rules: Psyker Level 1, Grand Strategy, First to the Fray (If he deploys via deep strike, he and his unit arrive first turn and does not scatter)

Ghostly Bodyguard (Ghost Knights): Terminators with Stealth USR. If Mordrack suffers an unsaved wound, at the end of the phase roll a d3. If the result is equal to or greater than his remaining wounds a Ghost Knight appears. If Mordrack dies, the Ghost Knights also disappear.

Mordrack can only joining Ghost Knights and he must purchase 1-10 at the start of the game. Here's the profile:

• Ghost Knight: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4(5) A2 Ld9 Sv2+/5++ Points 32
  Weapons: Nemesis Force Halberds or Nemesis Daemon Hammers (both free), (Storm Bolter, grenades unknown)
  Options: Nemesis Falchions (+5/model), Nemesis Warding Stave, Psybolt ammo, Master Craft any weapon (+10 per model), Brotherhood Banner (+25), (more?)
  Special Rules: Stealth, Psyker level - See Mordrack
  Psychic Powers: See Mordrack
  

Brother Captain Arvann Stern: WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points ?

Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo

Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 2, Strands of Fate (exactly the same as now)

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion.

 

Castellan Garran Crowe: WS8 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I6 A* Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 150

Wargear: Blade of Antywr (close combat weapon that provide +1S & +1I and re-rolls in first round of cc) Artificer Armour; Frak, Krak, and Psyk-Out Nades, Storm Bolter; Iron Halo

Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 1,Fearless, The Perfect Warrior (see Brotherhood Champion), Litanies of Hate, Master Swordsman (His CC attacks are Rending and Rend on a 4+)

Psychic Powers: Cleansing Flame, Hammer Hand, Heroic Sacrifice

Keeper of Anarch: Takes Purifiers as troop choices.

 

Inquisitor Torquemada Corteaz - DaemonHunter: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv2+ Points 100

Wargear: Master-crafted Daemon hammer with Daemonbane

Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 2, Stubborn, Spy Network (Steal Initiative re-roll), I've Been Expecting You (auto shoot arriving enemy deep strikes)

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Mind Blades, Sanctuary

Lord of Formosa: Takes Henchman warbands as troop choices.

 

Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov - WitchHunter: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W4 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv2+

Wargear: Master-crafted Multi-melta, Master-crafted Power sword, Frag, Krag, Psyk-out and Rad grenades, Orbital Strike Relay

Special Rules: Independent Character, Relentless, Stubborn, Dread Reputation (units within 12' re-roll moral and pinning tests) By any means necessary (Place blast over a friendly model. If you do so the shot does not scatter)

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Mind Blades, Sanctuary

 

Inquisitor Helynna Valeria - XenoHunter: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3(5) Ld10 Sv3+(4++) Points 100

Wargear: Frag, Krak, & Psyk-Out Grenades, Graviton Pistol (Range: 12\" Strength: 10 AP: 1 Type: Pistol, One Shot), Runes of Destiny (All saves against her attacks must be re-rolled) Dagger of Midnight (+2A), Hyperstone Maze (alternative attack)

Special Rules: Independent Character, Psychic Mastery 2, Stubborn

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Mind Blades, Sanctuary

 

Standard:

Grand Master: WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 175

Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo

Options: Psycannon, Incinerator, Psilencer, Servo Skulls (Up to 3), Blind Grenades, Meltabombs, Digital weapons, Psybolt ammo, Empyrean Brain mines, Psyk-out grenades. Master-crafting.

Special Rules:Independent Character, Psyker Level 1

The Grand Strategy: Pick D3 Units and give them a special rule -

1. Hammer of Righteousness: Nominated unit re-rolls to wound rolls of 1 for the duration of the game
   
2. Shield of Blades: Target unit gets Counter Attack
   
3. Spear of Light: Target unit gets Scouts
   
4. Unyielding Anvil: Target unit gains Scoring
   

Note: All these units are affected by the one choice.

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion

 

Brother Captain: WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 150

Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo

Options: Psycannon, Incinerator, Psilencer, Servo Skulls (Up to 3), Blind Grenades, meltabombs, digital weapons, psybolt ammo, empyrean brain mines, psyk-out grenades. Master-crafting.

Special Rules: Independent Character, Psyker level 1.

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion.

 

Brotherhood Champion : WS7 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A* Ld10 Sv2+/4++ Points 100 (Chaplain+Emperor's Champion Combo!)

Wargear: Artificer Armour, Frag & Krag, Storm bolter, Nemesis Force Sword that re-rolls fails to wounds.

Options: Digital Weapons, Empyrean Mines, Psybolt ammo

Special Rules: Independent Character, Fearless, Psyker Level 1, Titans Herald (Litanies of Hate)

The Perfect Warrior: Instead of an attack value he makes special cc attack ability, using one of the following:

• Sword Storm: Makes one A on each model in B2B.
  
• Blade Shield: Does not attack, but re roll failed saves.
  
• Rapier Strike: Makes D3 Attacks (+1 if charged) at I10 but must be against an IC or MC.
  

Psychic Powers: Hammerhand, Heroic Sacrifice.

 

Librarian: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+/4++ 150 Points

Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapon, Storm bolter, Orbital Strike Relay, Terminator Armour, Iron Halo

Options: Upgrade to Psyker Mastery 3 +50 points. Take additional psychic powers for +5 points each.

Special Rules: Independent Character, Psyker Mastery 2

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand

 

Inquisitor: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv4+ 25 Pts

Wargear: Power Weapon w/ Instant Death, Forcefield (enemy takes save vs wound or die)

Options: Psyker Mastery 1

Special Rules: Stubborn, Independent Character, Henchmen Retinue (3-12)

 

Inquisitorial Henchmen

• Arco Flagelant: WS5 BS1 S5 T3 W1 I3 A4 Ld8 Sv - ? Points
  Wargear: Close Combat Weapon
  Special Rules: Feel No Pain
   
  Banisher: WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+ ? Points
  Wargear: Eviscerator
  Special Rules: Preferred Enemy: Daemons, Aura of Faith (Demons within 6" re-roll successful invulnerable saves.)
   
  Crusader: WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+/3++ ? Points
  Wargear: Power Weapon, Flak Armour, Storm Shield.
   
  Demonhost: WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5++ ? Points
  Wargear: Fearsome Claws and Runic Chains (CC weapons), Warp Shield (5+ Invulnerable Save)
  Daemonic Power: Roll a d6 on the start of each of YOUR turns, all Daemonhosts in your unit gain one of the following until your next turn unless otherwise stated:
  • Re-Knit Host Form - Feel No Pain
    
  • Warp Grasp: No Armour saves against Daemonhost's CC attacks
    
  • Daemonic Speed: Fleet & I10
    
  • Warp Strength: Strength 6
    
  • Energy Torrent: Shooting attack: 24" S4 AP3 Assault 1, Blast
    
  • Unholy Gaze: Shooting Attack: 24" S8 AP- Assault 1
    

Deathcult Assassin: WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W1 I6 A2 Ld8 Sv5+/5++ ? Points

Wargear: 2x Power Weapons.

Special rules: Special Dodge (5++)

 

Servitor: WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ ? Points

Wargear: Carapace Armour, Servo-arm, Heavy Bolter or Multi-melta

Options: Up to 3 can be armed with Plasma Cannons

Special Rules: Mindlock (see other codex servitor entries for details)

 

Jokaero Weaponsmith: WS1 BS3 S2 T3 W1 I3 A* Ld8 Sv5++

Wargear: Jokaero Ingenuity: (Lascannon, multi-melta, Heavy Flamer), Digital Weapons, Defence orb (5++)

Inconceivable Customisation Roll D6 each turn and add +1 starting at second turn. Bonus applies to squad:

• 1. No effect.
  2. +12? range to all guns.
  3. Armour saves improved by one.
  4. All shooting weapons become rending
  5. All models gain a 5+ invulnerable save
  6. "The Works": Roll twice on the table and apply both results. No result can be taken twice.
  

Mystic: WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+ ? Points

Wargear: Flak Armour, Las Pitsol

Special rules: Psychic Beacon (works like an Space Marine Locator Beacon)

 

Psyker: WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+ ? Points

Wargear: Flack armour, Las Pistol

Special Rules: Psychic Barrage (psychic Blast Mark Attack)

 

Warrior Acolyte: WS? BS? S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv4+ ? Points

Wargear: Laspistol and chainsword, Flak Armour

Options: Boltgun, Storm Bolter, Hot-shot Lasgun, Combi-weapon, Power sword/or Plasma pistol, Storm Shield, Power Fist, Power armour, Meltabombs

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Elites:

Techmarine: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+ Points ?

Wargear: Conversion Beamer, Servo Skulls, Nemesis Weapons, Orbital Strike Relay, Psybolt ammo, Frag Grenades, Krag Grenades

Options: ?

Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 1

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Reconstruction

 

Purifier Squad: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+ Points 24

Wargear: Nemesis Force Weapom, Power Armour, Storm Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.

Options: Psybolt ammo, Psilencer, Psycannon, Incinerator (free!), Master-crafting (Justicar only)

Special Rules: Fearless, Psyker level 1

Psychic powers: Hammer Hand, Cleansing Flame

 

Venerable Dreadnought: WS6 BS4 S6 FRONT13 SIDE12 BACK10 I4 A3 Points 175

Wargear: ?

Options: ?

Special Rules: Psyker

Psychic Power: Fortitude

 

Paladin Squad

Paladin Terminator: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 2+/4++ Points 55

Squad Size: 1 - ?

Weapons: Storm Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Nemesis Force Halberd

Options: Psyk-out grenades, Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Force Weapon upgrades, Psycannon, Incinerators, Psylencers, Apothecary, Banner of Brotherhood, Psybolt Ammo, Master-crafting (+5 points).

Special Rules: Psyker Level 1

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust

 

Assassin Profile: WS8 BS8 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld10 Sv 4++ Points: See temples below

Rules: Feel No Pain, Fleet, Fearless, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Uncanny Reflexes (4+ Invulnerable save)

• Callidus 145 Points
  Wargear:C'Tan Phase Blade (Power Weapon w/ Instant Death), Neural Shredder (Template S8 AP 1 Pistol Hits are resolved against Leadership not Toughness)
  Additional Special Rules: Hit and Run, Stealth, Polymorphine (When Callidus arrives from reserve, choose an enemy unit; they immediately take D6 S4 AP 2 hits. She does not scatter when DSing)
   
  Culexus 135 Points
  Wargear: Psyk-Out Nades, Psyocculum (?), Animus Speculum (12" S5 AP1 Assault 2. For every psyker within 12" of the assassin, add 2+ to the Speculum's assault value)
  Additional Special Rules: Etherium: Any unit wishing to shoot or use a psychic power on the Cullexus must pass an LD test on 3d6 (Vehicles are LD10). If the test is failed they can't target the assassin but can target others.
   
  Eversor 130 Points
  Wargear: Neuro Gauntlet (Lightning Claw), Executioner Pistol (12" S4 AP2 Pistol, Poisoned 2+), Meltabombs
  Additional Special Rules: Furious Charge, Frenzon: Gain d6 attacks on the turn they charge instead of 1
   
  Vindicare 145 Points
  Wargear: Exitus Pistol: (12" S: X AP:1 Pistol, Sniper), Exitus Rifle (36" S:X AP: 1 Sniper, Heavy 1), Blind Grenades,
  Options: Rounds: Must one of the following ammo types to shoot with
  • Hellfire: 2+ to wound.
    
  • Shieldbreaker: No damage, but permanently removes Invulnerable saves of target.
    
  • Turbo-Penetrator: Inflicts 2 wounds on any non-vehicle model wounded. Has penetration of 4D6 against vehicles!
    

Additional Special Rules: Infiltrate, Stealth

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Troops:

Special Terminator-Justicar Upgrade Character - Justicar Anval Thawn: WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4(5) A2 Ld10 Sv2+ ? Points

Wargear: Nemesis Force Halberd, Artificer Armour, Storm Bolter

Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 2, Fearless, I Shall Not Yield (on the spot 'Miraculous Intervention' - see Saint Celestine).

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand.

 

Grey Knight Terminator Squad

Grey Knight Terminator: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD9 Sv2+/5++ 40 Points

Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades.

Options: Psybolt ammo, Psilencer, Psycannon, Incinerator, Master-crafting (Justicar only)

Special Rules: Psychic Mastery 1

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand.

 

Grey Knights Strike Squad

Grey Knight: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 LD8 Sv3+ 20 Points

Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword.

Options: Psybolts

Special Rules: Psyker Level 1

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake.

 

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Transports

Rhino 40 points

Special Rules: Psyker

Psychic Power: Fortitude

Units taken by: Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Purifier Squads, Henchmen Warbands. SS with Teleporters can't go into/take a Rhino as a dedicated transport.

 

Chimera ?

Psychic Power: -

Units taken by: Only Henchmen Warbands.

 

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Fast:

Grey Knight Teleporters: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 LD8 Sv3+ 20 Points

Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword.

Options: Psybolts, Personal Teleporters

Special Rules: Psyker Level 1

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake.

 

StormRaven: 205 Points

Wargear: ?

Options: ?

Special Rules: Psyker

Psychic Power: Fortitude

 

Razorback 45 points

Special Rules: Psyker

Psychic Power: Fortitude

Units taken by: Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Purifier Squads, Henchmen Warbands. SS with Teleporters can't go into/take a Razorback.

 

--------

 

Heavy Support:

Purgation Squad

Grey Knight:WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 LD8 Sv3+ 20 Points

Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Weapon, 4x Incinerators, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Options: Replace Incinerators with Psycannons at +20 points each, Silencers for +? points.

Special Rules: Do not need line of sight.

 

Dreadnought WS4 BS4 S6 FRONT12 SIDE12 BACK10 I4 A2 Points110

Wargear: ?

Options: ?

Special Rules: Psyker

Psychic Power:Fortitude

 

Nemesis Dreadknight: WS5 BS4 S7 T7 W4 I4 A3 Sv2+/4++ 130 Points

Wargear: Heavy Psycannon, Super Incinerator, 2 close combat weapons.

Options: Personal Teleporter

Special Rules: Monstrous Creature, deep strike, Psychic Mastery 1

Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust.

 

Land Raider (and variants, including redeemer)

Wargear: ?

Options: ?

Special Rules: Psyker

Psychic Power: Fortitude

 

========

Sources:

• Commissar Ciaphas Cain - Bolter & Chainsword
  
• Dagmire & Katie Drake - Heresy Online
  
• Bestial Fury & Marshall Augustine - Warseer
  

Special thanks to Vhaylar.

[Marmande]

Saving just in case.

[Growler67]

You mentioned Ordo Xenos and Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors Wargear. Any mention of units as well or just =I= Lord Wargear? Will there be anything on DeathWatch Company Kill-Teams or Hereticus units or is this only a Malleus Dex with a sprinkle of goodies for other =I= Lords?

[Gentlemanloser]

Awesome compilation, muhc appreciated! :P

[AlexHolker]

Assuming Augustine's rumours are accurate, I am not a fan.

1.

Only one FA choice, the Stormraven.

2.

Either 0 or possibly 1 units in the FA and HS slots combined that work with the traditional GK deployment (teleporting terminators).

3.

GKs teleporting from orbit are awesome. GKs teleporting 6" twice per round and getting a 30" teleport once per game is self-parody.

4.

Reducing GKs to WS4 and A1 (no True Grit?) is bad. Preferred Enemy vs. Daemons seems like a cop-out.

5.

GhostKnights, really? It's awesome when a Canoness does it in DoW, but that's no excuse for the GKs stealing it.

6.

The psionic powers Warp Rift and Zone of Banishment sound like a good way of making a daemonic incursion

worse

. Tearing holes in reality is a bad thing when it makes it easier for daemons to enter the material universe. Plus, more JOTWW shenanigans.

7.

No ISTs, only WS3, BS3 mooks.

8.

Making power armour, storm bolters and storm shields available to said mooks. Who gave these losers the keys to the armoury?

9.

No Henchmen as troops without Coteaz.

10.

4D6 armour penetration for the Vindicare is just insane. Removing invulnerable saves regardless of source is also insane.

 

What I would have done differently:

1&2.

Give the GKs a few orbital assets, say an Orbital Auspex Array (1/turn act as a Teleport Beacon or allow re-Deep Strike for one squad) or a rebalanced Deathstorm Drop Pod w/Teleport Homer in FA to make GK teleportation better, and Orbital Bombardment in HS.

3.

See above. Letting you re-Deep Strike up to 3 squads in any turn by locking on the squad with the OAA would give a similar level of mobility without the silliness of 6" teleports while making the limitation on its usage non-arbitrary.

4.

Keep GKs as WS 5, A2, remove Preferred Enemy: Daemons.

6.

If the GKs are going to have a "Banish to the Warp" power, have it work only on Daemons (and do damage to Daemon Engines/Possessed vehicles). Make it less effective than JOTWW against big gribblies.

7&8.

Make =][= henchmen your choice of WS or BS 4. Remove access to power armour & storm bolters.

9.

Make generic Inquisitors allow Henchmen as troops (one per =][=?), not just Coteaz.

10.

Reduce Turbo-Penetrator AP to 3D6+3. Remove the "remove Invulnerable saves" clause until

GW

starts distinguishing between Invulnerable save sources again.

[jakehunter52]

Today is a good day to be alive.

 

Assuming Augustine's rumours are accurate, I am not a fan.

1.

Only one FA choice, the Stormraven.

At least it's an actual entry this time.

^_^

2.

Either 0 or possibly 1 units in the FA and HS slots combined that work with the traditional GK deployment (teleporting terminators).

Book has been rewritten so the "traditional" style no longer applies. It seems like it is more of a fast-moving elimination force rather than rapid reaction suppression team. Possibly due to more severe daemonic incursions?

3.

GKs teleporting from orbit are awesome. GKs teleporting 6" twice per round and getting a 30" teleport once per game is self-parody.

They already did. Now they are moving onto the next dish. And I think it will be awesome that we are going to be able to faster than DE in a sense.

4.

Reducing GKs to WS4 and A1 (no True Grit?) is bad. Preferred Enemy vs. Daemons seems like a cop-out.

A bit lame but understandable. We are already good enough w/ with a stormbolter, basic psykic powers that make us str 5, psykic resistance, an amazing jump pack and possibly power weapons.

5.

GhostKnights, really? It's awesome when a Canoness does it in DoW, but that's no excuse for the GKs stealing it.

No comment

6.

The psionic powers Warp Rift and Zone of Banishment sound like a good way of making a daemonic incursion

worse

. Tearing holes in reality is a bad thing when it makes it easier for daemons to enter the material universe. Plus, more JOTWW shenanigans.

No comment

7.

No ISTs, only WS3, BS3 mooks.

Still better than conscripts?

8.

Making power armour, storm bolters and storm shields available to said mooks. Who gave these losers the keys to the armoury?

Are you saying the Holy =I= is just a bunch of losers?

9.

No Henchmen as troops without Coteaz.

True

10.

4D6 armour penetration for the Vindicare is just insane. Removing invulnerable saves regardless of source is also insane.

The Imperium must have it's monsters too.

 

Overall, I am quite excited by all of this. It looks

scary

and that is what I want exactly. I can already see the scheming minds coming up w/ tournament lists made of Paladins, Purifiers and Dreadknights. But at the same time, I know that there are going to be limitations. The points costs are going to be on a scale that I don't think has ever been seen before, even with DA. The lack of anti-armour is going to be a significant factor and is going to force the player to choose between dreadknights, dreadnoughts and SRs. The base statline remains the same as other SMs and doesn't have some of the advantages that other top ranking armies have (SW's counter attack and BA FNP). A lot of our benefits will only affect a few armies (I find it ironic that 'Nids might be struggling quite a bit against us, almost more than Daemons). Personally, I will be looking to maybe taking one or two squads of Paladins w/ a couple squads of Strike GKs to support them (and enjoy that nice shield they provide) with a couple of Dreads, a Dreadknight and SR. But we'll see, that's looking expensive already. AWWWWWWWW!!!!!! :

lol

:

[boreas]

I'm really happy with all the rumors. I think some of the old paradigms are falling and it's not a bad thing. First, the GKs have been overhyped in the fluff. They are an elite astartes force, but not the end-all-invincible-we-come-in-and-wipe-out-and-always-win force the previous codex made them to be. They very good psychic astartes. While this may tarnish their fluff a bit, it now makes them a viable 40k gaming army. I didn't want my SSGK (the old PAGK) to be 25pts a piece. With the new stat line, they will be at least as good vs most armies and cost about 27% for a squad of ten (33% less for a squad of 5!).

 

Still, if "uber-elite" is your thing, this codex can represent it. With a GKGM or Draigo, you can make an all-paladin force. If you like the =I=, you can make =I=+henchmen warbands accompanied by "inducted" Space Marines (you don't have to paint them gray!). Add a few LR or use Valkyries for "count-as" Stormraven. If you like "pure" GKs, you now have lots of possibilities. An entrenched GK forces that's been fighting chaos on a planet for 6 months? Add more razorbacks, dreadnoughts and a techmarine to represent "on-site" transport since teleportation is harder in this chaos-polluted atmosphere! A shiny new force of "mass" GKs? Add a brotherhood champion (chaplain) to supervise all those SSGK, termies instead of paladins, purgators instead of dreads.

 

I think nids will be harder, actually. Shadows in the warp will affect us very badly since we'll depend on psychic test to get our full potential. SW? I'm still not sure about. They've got CA, but I wouldn't charge them anyways. Let them come to you while stormboltering and kiting. And if they finally charge, don't forget you have PW all-around (and the +1St HH!).

 

This is codex in the pure 5th ed. style: It will demand cohesion form the multiple facets of the codex in order to win. Harder? Yes. More fun? Yes. But it also opens up more modeling, fluff and style possibilities.

 

Phil

[Vindicatus]

I'm going to have to agree with Alex on this one.

 

Grey Knights are the best of the already elite. They are the Delta Force of the Astartes, charged with the mission to protect the Imperium of Man from the weirdness of the Warp.

 

WS4 A1? Really? Really?

 

You're telling me that now Grey Knights are nothing but silver painted standard Space Marines with a cooler version of the bolter and a glowy sword on a stick?

[boreas]

The problem here is that GK also have to be a viable gaming force. Sure, GKs could keep their current statline. They'd still be 25 pts and people would still have problems winning. Want or not, WH40k is first and foremost a game. And the ruleset cannot represent the fluff people read. At that rate, a single Space Marnie squad should be worth about 1000pts.

 

I think GW has made a very good compromise here. They could have done it otherwise and include non-GK fodder, because fodder is needed in this game and there's no going around that. In order to play this game, both player HAVE to remode models, not just wounds. Now, if GW had gone the non-gk fodder way, people would have (as theey did with the last codex) that they couldn't play "pure" GKs. People just can't have it both ways. So either you play a "pure" GK force with no SSGK. You get your "elite" delta force. Or you play general GK with the "regular" SSGk and suck up to the fact that this is a game and as such must bend fluff to meet some gaming requirement.

 

Phil

[boreas]

damned souble-post! :)

[Vindicatus]

I'm not strictly basing this off of fluff as I am previous statlines, to which they should adhere to as much as possible to keep true to the feel of the army.

 

Granted, some of that may or may not have been based on fluff in the past considering the background they come from, but I agree that it cannot be the basis at which an army is formed around. Elsewise, GMGK's would be able to pelvic-thrust Psyblast daemons off the table, standard marines would be able to eat nails and :) battle cannon rounds, etc etc.

 

The methodology behind this removes the 'elite' status of the Grey Knights with their 'compromises' made for the reduced stats. How? It makes it feel like just another chapter of standard space marines, versus what it used to. Yes, I came to the table with less than an opponent, and strangely, could remain extremely competitive. Yes, half my crap wasn't 'standard' compared to other updated codices.

 

That 1 WS and 1A made it all worthwhile. It made them different than just standard-joe.

 

Way to make alienate Grey Knight players, GW; hopefully you don't crush the dreams of Necron or SoB players with something equally disingenuous.

[boreas]

Yes, I came to the table with less than an opponent, and strangely, could remain extremely competitive.

 

I keep reading this from here and there and, frankly, it's crap. Utterly. GKs were not competitve. At all. I've never seen a tournement report (a real tournement, not you're across the street tourney with 50% newbies) where GK had even made it to the top-20. Even in friendly game, they were not, unless you played that crappy tri-landraider list...

 

Even in a friendly game, WS5 A2 meant squat against a mod of Orks or guants. Even against regular Meq, point for points we are now better. 10 GKs will attack 11 times , hit 5.5 times, wound 2.75 times rounded to 3 kills. At 200pts, it costs us 70pts to kill a Meq. Before, we'd attack 21 times, hit 14 times, wound 11.7 times and kill 4 marines. At 275pts, it was 68 pts to kill a Meq. Not a big difference. In fact, now, if we get the charge, we'll attack 21 times, hit 10.5 times and kill 5 Meq, which makes us better. And let's face it, in the real gaming world you'll face marines (50% or+ of the time).

 

Phil

[Vindicatus]

In the many games I've played versus Tyranids, horde-Guard, mech-Guard, and Orks...I have never had a problem remaining competative. Ever. Why? Because I believe in something more than 'run forward, gunline, fire, get into close combat'.

 

Grey Knights are the High Elves of the 40k world. They are elite. They fall outside of the normal bounds of the doable. They are a DIFFICULT army to play and they were DESIGNED that way. You have to think tactically to get anywhere with them and to make your opponent think on each inch of ground he gives or tries to take.

 

I don't know what game you're playing, or with whom you play it with, but Grey Knights are plenty competative in the right hands. Do we completely faceroll opponents? No. That's not 'competative'. At what point does that become fun? There are no tactics involved, no thought.

 

Side note : I don't believe in math-hammer. Most retarded way to show comparison ever. Even the most tooled out squad for cheap is going to get their poo pushed in when handled by a complete moron. Stats mean nothing against a tactically minded opponent.

[boreas]

How can you explain your so-called "competitiveness" when, all over the world, pure GK player don't place at tournement, ever? Are we all bad players? I guess so :rolleyes: Oh well, I'm happy with the new codex as it's being presented. Let each have it's own, I guess..

 

Phil

[Azezel]

I have to agree with boreas.

 

If these rumours are true, GK - especially pure GK will be significantly more competative (they could hardly get worse). The cheaper PAGK allow people to play pure GK* without crippling themselves and, even without knowing what funky powers NFWs might have, the new GK mathhammer out to be better.

 

If you want GK to be even more elite, then you can play an all-terminator force - which I understand is more fluffy anyway, I believe that back in the day, the GK used nothing but TDA.

 

Stats have never been what seperates one colour of marines from another, it's the theme, the story and the fluff, which, if we're honest, has never had more than a nodding relationship with the crunch anyway.

 

 

*It seems to me that most DH players don't much care about the non-Grey Knight units. Most people seem to want to play pure GK and of the ones that don't play pure GK, a lot would if it were possible to do so and win.

 

PS. Vindicatus, 'disingenuous' doesn't mean what I think you think it means.

[Vindicatus]

I've had no problems placing in tournies around the state, however to your post :

 

Reason 1) People think like you do, and thusly never try.

Reason 2) This is a difficult army to play, and not everyone has the right sort of mindset or strategy to roll with the big boys. As such, people want to play tourneys in which the army is easier to play, the concept of them easier to grasp.

Reason 3) People, in almost every venue I've seen, have shelved their GK's for armies that they CAN faceroll an opponent without much effort or thought behind it.

 

 

I considered shelving my GK's for Blood Angels when they came out because I thought I might like something new, try to see just how I could do with another army after rolling dice as the Gk for so long. I didn't, because I wanted to see just how I'd measure up to the newer codices being release and thusfar the only one I've had issues with is the Dark Eldar one.

 

Now on a side note, I'm not saying that some of the other options aren't decent, I'm arguing that the sudden removal of their uniquness is a bit much in my opinion. I kind of liked being the only guy in my town with an army like this, and having abilities that, even against newer armies, still provide plenty of opportunity to be a pain in the ass if used properly. They had a different feel to them, and you were required to do more with less given to you. I, as a personal trait of mine, enjoy challenges, and took it on to try to make the most of it, which I've done to some measure of success.

 

Edit : Disingenuous [adj] : to lack frankness, candor, or sincerity. Obviously GW is only concerned with throwing out another army as updated versus putting actual effort behind it. I'm correct in my assumption that their notions are lacking in their sincerity at producing quality work compared to producing something shiny, pretty, and God-awful at the same time, and equally so in crushing said dreams of Necron and SoB players with utter crap.

[Gentlemanloser]

I've played DH since before the new Eldar Dex.

 

If you face a semi aware opponent, with a current codex ('Crons and Tau forgiven!), there is no way to compete. No way at all. We're outclassed. Outcosted, out gunned, out ruled.

 

Well, you can start 'inducting' IG units. Why by that time you might just as well be playing an IG list anyway...

 

The new rumours are brilliant. No, new GK aren't anywhere near Ultramarines with bling. From only a fluff standpoint, the bare basic Gtry Knight is a Psycher. That there is a massive difference, now actually represented in our rules, instead of "Oh you've just got a Relic Blade...".

 

We are an unique army, and will remain a totally unique army.

 

Every GK unit, every one including our vehicles, are Psychers.

 

The Ultra's have nothing on that. :D

[Vindicatus]

I suppose on some standpoint that's the point I'm making. I'd go back to edit my post but eh, gift of hind...thought. Just took a break at work and had time to compile everything in my head into a singular cohesive thought (after two more cups of coffee).

 

As such:

 

The various changes to 'update' the codex are good. They add to what could be considered by some to be severely lacking; I can admit times of frustration of having the old assault cannon on the front end of my LRC. :|

 

I consider it absolute crap that they took the concept and original idea behind the Grey Knights and round-filed it. I'd rather them stay true to the concept than downgrade them to silver-standard Space Marines. It makes it feel half-hearted, or that they're just dumbing it down so that anyone can pick it up and become super-amazing. Granted, it's a business and selling their product is what they believe in, but I don't think you should have to sacrifice something of that nature in order to do it. That all just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

 

I suppose all I can do is wait and see, and scrutinize the hell out of the book when it finally hits shelves in April. And hopefully in the early part of April; I'm starting to go crazy. :D

[Lord Ragnarok]

I've played DH since before the new Eldar Dex.

 

If you face a semi aware opponent, with a current codex ('Crons and Tau forgiven!), there is no way to compete. No way at all. We're outclassed. Outcosted, out gunned, out ruled.

 

Well, you can start 'inducting' IG units. Why by that time you might just as well be playing an IG list anyway...

 

The new rumours are brilliant. No, new GK aren't anywhere near Ultramarines with bling. From only a fluff standpoint, the bare basic Gtry Knight is a Psycher. That there is a massive difference, now actually represented in our rules, instead of "Oh you've just got a Relic Blade...".

 

We are an unique army, and will remain a totally unique army.

 

Every GK unit, every one including our vehicles, are Psychers.

 

The Ultra's have nothing on that. :)

 

Well, nobody does, which is great. :)

[Vindicatus]

If they keep that rule for the ..Calexus..(?) assassin where each psyker in range adds 1 to the assault value of the weapon...that could turn hideous pretty quick.

 

I still like my Callidus though; nothing quite like auto-glancing at AP1 and fuggering up some vehicles or 'jumping back' from an assault.

[Marmande]

Couple of things:

 

1 - Stormraven as sole FA: Spectral Dragon of Warseer, while saying that Augustine was mostly right (and said that he was much more on-target than Stickmonkey), he implied there was another FA Choice with an emphasis on Teleportation, so don't assume too much there.

 

2 - On the nerfed PAGK statline: Current rumors peg the NF Halberds as giving +1 Initiative while the swords give +1 Attack, so while I also lament the potential loss of WS5 acorss the board, we still have access to not only wargear that puts them above regular marines but also customizable statlines. Not to mention powers like Hammerhand and Mind Blades will make wounding (with power weapons) easy enough to offset the loss while keeping costs down, which is another big point.

 

I'll be adding some more bits and pieces later today, but feel free to post stuff if you find it first. :)

[Marmande]

Bestial Fury, a rumor dude who has corroborated much of what Augustine has posted, on Karamazov:

 

He has throne of judgement but he is infantry. It buffs him with attacks (4), strength (5), toughness(5) and artificer armor. Also has Multi Melta, Master Crafted power sword. No inv save. Has orbital strike that he is allowed to place on top of friendlies, even in combat (hmmm tarpit cheap henchies then blast bad and good guys with pie plate). He is an IC so attach to squads but can't get in transports as he is too large.

 

---

Forgot, has relentless

 

EDIT: He later clarified that Karamazov is NOT an MC, so no 2d6 for Penetration, but you can attach him to squads which sounds pretty cool. :)

 

EDIT 2: He provided further detail:

 

Also confers re-roll of failed pinning/morale tests for units within 12 inches. And can himself choose or fail morale/pinning tests. Has power weapon. MM is master crafted power sword.

 

Was also incorrect on attacks. Attacks=3

 

And Augustine on the Brotherhood Champion:

 

Brotherhood Champions are like a chaplain crossed with an emperors champion. In combat they have a series of combat stances that they can chose from.

[Requiemnex]

How can you explain your so-called "competitiveness" when, all over the world, pure GK player don't place at tournement, ever? Are we all bad players? I guess so :) Oh well, I'm happy with the new codex as it's being presented. Let each have it's own, I guess..

 

Phil

 

I have to agree here.. I do not play Grey Knights but I have never seen them do well and have actually never lost to them personally. Any GT or 40+ tourney I have attended there has been one time I saw them place above the middle of the road.

 

Math Hammer really just represents the general potential of a unit. It can be useful when thinking about your tactics. If you know that 9 out of 10 times the unit will operate like this, you will be able to make a more secure tactical choice with the unit.

 

I like some of the things written above and some of the things really show to how much the game is changing since the release of Blood Angels and Dark Eldar. I also think that the Grey Knights with all their pretty anti Psychic Power abilities and practically every unit having the ability to hit at Str6. Furthermore if paired correctely getting 2d6 armor pen.. I welcome them onto the Tourney tables as they will adjust a lot of the metagame. 4 runepriest lists will start to fade out again. Grey knights will also be able to foot slog/deepstrike without much issue.

 

Again.. Just rumors though. I never place much faith until I see it on the shelf.

[Marmande]

They're coming hard and fast now, with some info on the Brotherhood Champion:

 

Brotherhood Champion:

74441*10 2+

Infantry, Character

Artificer, Frag, Krack, Iron Halo, storm bolter

Anointed Blade: Nemesis Force Sword, re roll failed wounds.

 

Titans Herald: AKA Litanies of Hate.

 

* The perfect Warrior (instead of an attack value, makes special cc attack ability):

Sword Storm: Makes one A on each model in B2B.

Blade Shield: Does not attack, but re roll failed saves.

Rapier Strike: Makes D3 Attacks (+1 if charged) at I10 but must be against an IC or MC.

 

Powers:

HammerHand

Heroic Sacrifice

 

 

100pts Base

Upgrades:

Digital Weapons 5pts

Empyriean Mines 10pts

Psybolt ammo 5pts

 

And also some info from Dagmire, a moderator at Heresy Online and one of the people at the Overlords 40k podcast (which makes him the fourth person to corroborate Augustine's rumors) had this to say about the special character Grand Marshall Mordrack:

 

200 points

6 6 4 4 4 5 4 10 2+

this is the guy that comes with ghosts as his body guard.

Deep stikes like drop pods do, first turn landings ect

and give the D3 dice rolls to improve units

 

And more on the same model from Augustine:

 

him and his squad will DS with NO scatter.

Stats are accurate.

 

Stealth for the Ghost Knights. (one wounded terminators)

 

Roll D3 for each unsaved wound he suffers. If = or greater than his remaining wounds, another knight shows up and joins the unit.

32pts per ghost minimum of 1 and max 10

 

Can have Nemesis Force Halberds for free, or nemesis deamon hammers for free.

Falchions for +5 per model.

Nemesis Warding Stave.

Psybolt ammo

Any model may make any weapon Master Crafted at +10.

Brotherhood banner +25.

 

I should note that this is similar to a rumor that Blood of Kittens had awhile back involving a character that reduced the cost of GKTs for his 'retinue' or simply a unit for him to join.

[boreas]

I'm surprised that the champion has only 1 wound...

 

Phil