Marid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What have you read/heard that you leads you to believe you won't be able to have mostly non PA? If rumors are true, bringing Coteaz opens up the floodgates for utilizing the very diverse Henchmen units. I hope that you don't have to use Coteaz and precious Elite-slot Imperial Warbands to fill out troops. Although, something about the Imperial Warbands rumor doesn't look right. Mixing a Daemonhost with an Arco and a Mystic? It seems like throwing a wolf, a chicken, and a bear in a ring and standing clear to watch the fur and feathers fly. The rumors are a bit sketchy in this area to conclude much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I don't understand this "-Just- another SM codex" mentality about the Grey Knights. Sure they are another SM army, but they are drastically different in style and equipment compared to any other SM army. -Just- another SM army implies that they are exactly the same with maybe one or two new things thrown in(Stormraven for the Blood Angels, and Librarian Dreadnaughts anyone?). But Grey Knights are hardly like that. Where are their Predators, Drop Pods? Devastator Squads(Purgation Squads aren't quite the same)? Assault Marines? Bike Marines? What's that you say? Grey Knights are all Psykers? All will now have powers unlike the old 3rd Ed dex were it was only reflected in their weapons. This really. We're so different to a 'normal' SM army its staggering. And if you have to use a SC to open non GK as troops, I'm sorry but I can't feel bad about that. There's always the IG dex for mostly humans, and Apoc for a mix. That this codex gives an option via SC to make a non GK unit troops is only a good thing. /shrug By the sounds of it, this codex is going to do an *awesome* job of representing a militant GK force, supported by the Human Inquisition elements than might have been used to to get it in place. If you want to add a Planetery Defense Force to the mix, for epic battles, that is unfortuneatly Apocaplypse's purview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 P.S. I don't mean to be offensive or upset anyone. I just see this statement tossed around a bit to much and I find it to be somewhat silly. The whole point of Grey Knights(to me) is that they ARE different, that they AREN'T just another Marine Dex with 1 new unit and a bad naming convention. I think all this reported new Wargear and new Units(Paladins, and the Dreadtimus Prime, and Purifiers, etc) are showing that rather well. Now it is just a matter of waiting to see if all this is true. That may be the point, but by removing non-marine elements and options you make them more like regular space marines. I don't want to play a force that is all space marines. I want to play a unique army that has a mix of regular humans and super humans. The kind of armies you read about in the BL novels. In the universe of 40k, the idea of entire armies of Grey Knights fielded at one time is basically unheard of. Grey Knights are (or were) small forces augmented by imperial agents and local defense forces pieced together to overcome a dire threat. A threat that allows no time to send for great numbers of reinforcements. If I recall all major fluff instances where you truly get a glimpse at the Knights in action and not just as a "presence", The Knights are acting somewhat alone. The 1st War for Armageddon, if memory serves, 100 Terminators fought and slew Angron and his Thirsters with no back up(While the Wolves and IG tied up the rest of the enemy army). A pure Grey Knight force. If you count the first Ben Counter book, 300 Grey Knights fought and died on a Daemon world without a single non-gk marine or a single non-marine human backing them up. A pure Grey Knight force. 40k is a game of Skirmishes, aka smaller battles in a larger war. The Grey Knights being well.. Grey Knights... and doing Grey Knighty thing and being the secretive bunch of chaps that they are probably would prefer to fight the demonic threat alone. Hence why I think it makes more sense for the codex to be more directed at pure Grey Knights. The Inquisition is supose to be a background force, they are the detectives of the 40k Universe and rarely directly in the fight, that is why they have Chamber Militants. If I was a Grey Knight I would certainly rather take the fight to the Daemons of Chaos with myself and my battle-brothers and not a couple dozen weak-minded humans who may or may not be driven insane by the smallest glimpse of a Daemon and turning on you or going insane or what have you. They are just a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 If I was a Grey Knight I would certainly rather take the fight to the Daemons of Chaos with myself and my battle-brothers and not a couple dozen weak-minded humans who may or may not be driven insane by the smallest glimpse of a Daemon and turning on you or going insane or what have you. They are just a liability. Of course you rather have nothing but battle brothers in TD armor. Who wouldn't? But how often can this happen? You say we're not normal SM so how often can we generate concentrations of force like SM? And ISTs are not normal humans. They have been carefully prepared to deal with chaos. Besides, with 16 codexes, how often will GKs fight daemons on the gaming table? The essence of these rumors is that fans of Puritan Grey Knight armies will be very happy, but those of us who played Daemonhunter (RIP) armies have to pack up our models. Of course we will adapt, but if the rumors are true, the variety once possible in our codex is diminished, and I think we are poorer for it. I think this will be especially painful in 1000-point games (or team games) where we can't afford the elite toys and don't have the choice to bolster our ranks with IST or other inexpensive troops. I think we will miss those little 5-man melta/plasma squads mounted in Rhinos for ~120 pts. I remember fondly the first time my ISTs took down a Greater Daemon with plasma fire. Tougher than they look, and not super human, just men, with blessed plasma to guard the back of the Emperor's champions. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Ciaphas Cain Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Inquisitor Coteaz allows you to have Henchman warbands as troops. There are NO Inquisitorial Stormtroops, but you can take Warrior Acolytes who you can arm with Hot-Shot Lasguns if it makes you feel any better. It's a meh option at best. Crusaders Squad spam is going to be extremely prevalent I fear. You can take them as troops for plasma pistol cost per Crusader. Storm Shields and Power weapons. Each. It's going to be a mess. Falchions are taken in PAIRS as in the entry is "A pair of Nemesis Falchions" so yeah. I think Stormbolters act as pistols for the GKs as per the previous codex. Nemesis Force Sword is just a power weapon as far as I know. That was what it looked like when I last paged through the armoury section. Plus, why would Halberds and Nemesis Daemonhammers cost +5 points then? They'd be free as a tradeoff. I'll check the next time I see it as to what the Brotherhood Banner and the Heavy Pyscannon and Gatling Psilencer do. Psybolt Ammo ignores invulnerable saves I BELIEVE. Not sure. I'll check the next time I see, so no one get all worked up about it just yet. Master Crafted weapons work the same as they always have, and even GKSS Justicars can MC their weapons. The Paladin Nemesis weapons aren't any different than the ones I already listed. Henchman are Elites without Coteaz, but I wouldn't worry as far as that goes. The Elite section is pretty balanced so unless you want to go Paladin Spam (And honestly, if you do just take the Supreme Grandmaster Draigo he makes them troops anyway. Ven Dreads are meh, Purifiers are one of my favorites, but only as Troops. Dreads can be taken as Heavies, so really, you can choose between Assassins (Only one per type, they're Unique), a Techmarine, and Henchman Warbands. And the warbands are pretty diverse as far as things go. Also, Astral Aim, your target gets a 4+ Cover save. Not sure if that was mentioned yet or not. I'll get back to you guys on the wargear when I get a pass by it again. Anything else? I'll try and answer what I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Weapon options for the PAGK? (ala special and heavy weapons) and profiles for them, next chance you get (thank you for this, btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalyar Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Cheers Comissar! Here's a few things worth looking into, since we have few details about them: - The Brotherhood Banner would be nice, yeah. - Psilencer/Heavy psilencer stats. - What does the base Dreadknight come equipped with. - Which units get the Reinforced Aegis rule? All dreadnoughts or just Venerables? - Edit: Is there anything that grants some kind of protection against Perils of the Warp? Outside of the armory/wargear, if you have access to that: - Which powers are available for the Librarian to buy? All of them? - Anything about Inquisitor Valeria (Rules, abilities, etc.) - Do assassins take an Elite slot? Some rumors pegged them as not counting against the FOC limit. - Justicar Thawn, does he get anything special other than a 4+ We'll Be Back? We already have the PAGK stats though: Grey Knights Strike Squad (the regular GK's) Grey Knight: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 8 Sv 3+ 20 Points Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword. Options: Psybolts, Personal Teleporters Special Rules: Psyker Level 1 Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 What have you read/heard that you leads you to believe you won't be able to have mostly non PA? If rumors are true, bringing Coteaz opens up the floodgates for utilizing the very diverse Henchmen units. I hope that you don't have to use Coteaz and precious Elite-slot Imperial Warbands to fill out troops. Although, something about the Imperial Warbands rumor doesn't look right. Mixing a Daemonhost with an Arco and a Mystic? It seems like throwing a wolf, a chicken, and a bear in a ring and standing clear to watch the fur and feathers fly. The rumors are a bit sketchy in this area to conclude much. From my understanding, Henchmen do not take up FoC. Nevertheless, Coteaz makes them troops so yes you have to take him. Really not a hardship. I don't fault GW doing this to allow someone to have a army mostly of non PA/non GK. No, it is not the old dex, but they are not reprinting the old dex. Change will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We already have the PAGK stats though: Grey Knights Strike Squad (the regular GK's) Grey Knight: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 8 Sv 3+ 20 Points Wargear: Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword. Options: Psybolts, Personal Teleporters Special Rules: Psyker Level 1 Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Warp Quake. Sorry, meant for the special/heavy weapons. Not clear on my part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Are they still going to have Justicars? Also, True Grit is out? I really would like to see them having 2 attacks base, and no attacks for charging, but then they'll be very hard hitting with power weapons and all that. Ok, so against other marine armies, they'll be better at facing in CC. What about orks? How would we face that in CC? Cutting the attacks in half is a joke, much less, hitting and wounding on 4's, killing 2 orks a turn lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Ciaphas Cain Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 -Dreadknight comes with (And this is how you know Ward did it) two Nemesis Doomfists as default. -Grey Knight Strike Squad Options: -For every five: -Psilencer (Free!) -Psycannon -Incinerator -All the Nemesis weapons (Any model!) -Various point costs -Psybolt Ammo -Personal Teleporters -Justicar can MC any of his weapons -Henchmen, upon further examination don't take up a FoC slot but you MUST have an Inquisitor to get a Warband (One warband for each Inquisitor you have). And there's no limitations, so yes you might see Daemonhost, an Arco, and a Mystic in one group. -Assassins DO take up an Elite slot. -Librarian can take all of the powers and can be upgraded to Mastery Level 3 allowing him to cast 3 per turn. Also, he comes default in Terminator Armour. AND can take all of the various Nemesis weapons. -Thawn, no, but he is Mastery Level 2. Not sure why, as Hammerhands is the only power outside of I Shall Not Yield that he has. Also, before I list this, if I'm over the line at all, PLEASE tell me so I can remove what's necessary not to get my butt kicked. -Valeria has a LOOOOOT of equipment. Here it is: -She's an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor -Also, Stubborn -Stats: 4 4 3 3 3 4 3(5) 10 3+ -Power Armour; Frag, Krak, & Psyk-Out Nades; Laspistol -Graviton Pistol: Range: 12" Strength: 10 AP: 1 Type: Pistol, One Shot -Jacked it from an Alien Weaponsmith in the Ultima Segmentum apparently. -Runes of Destiny: ALL (Armour or invul) Successful saves against her shooting or CC attacks must be rerolled. -Eldar Runes she's taken over her career, but she ain't got no wraithbone batteries to make em work at full power -Dagger of Midnight: Grants +2A (Included in profile) that MUST be rolled with different colored dice (Or separate I suppose) because if she rolls doubles with them, the attacks hit her instead. -Stole this from an Eldar Pirate's corpse. Apparently the dagger is "controlled by a rebellious and bloodthirsty intelligence". Please perform an "Oogedy boogedy boo" after reading that. -Hyperstone Maze: Can be used once per game in lieu of her CC attacks. Must be directed towards a character or MC in B2B contact. Target must roll a d6 and roll equal to or below their remaining wounds or be "trapped in the maze forever" AKA removed from play. -Multi-faceted emerald that leads to a spooky sub-dimension, apparently -Forceshield: 4+ Invul save -Hand-mounted forcefield thingy. Also, randomly enough, they can take Ordo Xenos inquisitors. Weird. -And yes, VenDreads are the only ones with Reinforced Aegis Edit: Justicars are in. True Grit is out as far as RULE goes, but I think Stormbolters count as pistols for them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 If stormbolters count as pistols.. I'm a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalyar Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Wonderful, thanks. Looks like one of my Elite slots will be taken right off the bat by a Vindicare then. Did you find out what the Brotherhood Banner and Psilencer do also? I am already drooling at the idea of a Terminator dream-team :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Ciaphas Cain Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Not sure about the Stormbolters.. It's just off my memory, so grain o salt. As for the B-Banner & Psilencer, not yet. Working on it. Vindicares are BOSS. I've used them in a few games already, they're default in any of my armies. Just as good as they've always been. Do we have their rules listed yet? I'll list them and the other assassins in specifics if we haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalyar Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Glad to hear that about the Vindicare, seems like he can play a very important role in an army with limited model-count. We have the stats of the assassins and some Vindicare abilities, but we don't know what's automatic for him and what's a special ammo that must be selected. - Can pick any model within a unit, Stealth, FNP 6+ - 4d6 armor pen (ammo?) - 2+ wound (automatic or ammo?) - Remove invulnerable save (is this before rolling to hit? is the save removed for a single turn? for the whole game?) Feel free to inform us :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 need more on the eversor and culuxeous (however you spell it) eversor apparently got a L Claw, and a pistol that wounds on a 2+, but thats all i know/remember from other posters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Ciaphas Cain Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Vindicare Info: -Move Through Cover, Fleet, Infiltrate, Fearless, Uncanny Reflexes (4+ Invul) -Deadshot: In Soviet Russia, Vindicare shoots you. Kidding, the Vindicare's player picks who he hits, not the opposing player. -Blind Grenades -Exitus Pistol: 12" S: X AP:1 Pistol, Sniper -Exitus Rifle: 36" S:X AP: 1 Sniper, Heavy 1 -Rounds: Must Declare which round before rolling to hit -Hellfire: 2+ to wound -Shieldbreaker: Takes no damage, but PERMANENTLY removes Invul saves granted by items or wargeat -Turbo-Penetrator: Inflicts 2 wounds on any non-vehicle model wounded. Has penetration of 4D6 against vehicles! You guys just want me to list all the other Assassin's info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 ya, go for it (thank you, again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 So, the Vindicare can be our anti tank unit? I wonder if the eversor will be a beast still. Also, if you really are right about SBs counted as pistols for attacks. I love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalyar Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 You guys just want me to list all the other Assassin's info? Indeed! We only had some messy information on the Vindicare. Also, just a precision on Thawn. Can his I Shall Not Yield be used to bring back other models in the unit he's joined or is this only for him? In any case, I imagine that he's at mastery 2 to make sure that he can actually use that power, otherwise you'd never want to use Hammerhand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Don't forget, force weapon as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Ciaphas Cain Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I Shall Not Yield! only works on Thawn, sorry. As for the other assassins: Eversor: -Neuro Gauntlet: Counts as Lightning Claw -Frenzon: Gain d6 attacks on the turn they charge instead of 1 -Meltabombs -Furious Charge -Executioner Pistol: 12" S4 AP2 Pistol, Poisoned (2+) Cadillus: -C'Tan Phase Blade: Power Weapon. Instant Death against unsaved wounds regardless of Toughness -Neural Shredder: Template S8 AP 1 Pistol Hits are resolved against Leadership not Toughness. Can't hurt vehicles. -Polymorphine: When the assassin arrives from reserve, choose an enemy unit. Chosen unit immediately takes D6 S4 AP 2 hits. Then the assassin is placed anywhere within 3" using Deepstrike rules but does not scatter. -Hit and Run & Stealth Cullexus: -Psyk-Out Nades, Psyocculum (<- Not actually sure what that does) -Animus Speculum: 12" S5 AP1 Assault 2. For every psyker within 12" of the assassin, add 2+ to the Speculum's assault value -Etherium: Any unit wishing to shoot or use a psychic power on the Cullexus must pass an LD test on 3d6 (Vehicles count as LD10). If the test is failed they can't target the assassin but can target others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 So, basically they're gimping the eversor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalyar Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Looks like the Vindicare made the best transition to 5th ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arithon Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 New pictures up (bad quality though) including Dreadknight? Can be found here: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showth...65&page=327 Looks like alot of different weapons options and the thing is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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