The "must have" scene

[Corsair]

Legion. The entire novel.

 

But especially the first conversation between the main character (the Het, can't think of his name right now) and his first conversation with 'Alpharius'. The bravado and back and forth ending with the sheer transhuman menace of the Alpha Legionnaire. It was a great "we're on the same side, but don't :D with us," scene. Simple, but cinematic.

 

That whole novel is brilliantly setup for being filmed.

[Jimmy Carmine]

The more awesome scenes people post here, the worse I think a film would be. There simply isn't enough space for it all, what we need is a HBO Mini Series. GW needs to get the folks who are making Game of Thrones on the phone pronto!

[Capt. Taurus]

You do realise that 1) Alpharius was no bigger than the rest of his Legion, so he was no different physically,

 

Legion Spoilers throughout

 

Ohh, I humbly beg to differ, it is clearly stated in Legion, that he was substantially bigger than his Astartes, they even had to bring in the taller than average guy to be the double for Omegon, he may not have been as tall as the other Primarchs, but no two Primarchs resembled one another with the exception of Horus and Alpharius/Omegon. It is for instance known that Mortarion was probably the tallest of the Primarchs, now can Angron double him and make a fool of say....Sanguinius?

It is BTW also known that the Primarchs had an intuitive knowledge of the kinship between them and knew each other by instinct, what makes you believe that Guiliman of all Primarchs lacked that understanding?

 

 

so unless Guilliman goes on the guess of "hmm, that AL is 2mm taller than his brothers! He must be Alpharius!", discounting the possibilities that said AL might just be 2mm taller than Alpharius. 2) Horus recognised Alpharius because Alpharius was fighting alongside standard humans. Small as he may be, he still looks like a Marine, and so is easy to pick out, whereas Guilliman fought Alpharius

after the Alpha Legion took on the whole "no, I'm Spartacus!" thing, so the two situations aren't comparable at all,

 

Now that is major petty fogging on your part dear friend, the situations aren't comparable yes, but in a different way than you think. Horus actually slaughtered the entire force that accompanied Alpharius/Omegon and shot him while he was charging into him and only stopped and began laughing after seeing that the huge person at his throat was capable of withstanding him, so in how far did Horus have less difficulties to recognise his "primarchness"?

 

Besides Guilliman was familiar with him for decades before coming to blows with him, so how would Alpharius have deceived him, if I may ask?

 

and 3) the very IA article in which you're getting your information throws doubt on the events, as the Ultramarines themselves deny the battle ever took place, and the Inquisitor who "discovered" the data was later revealed to be an Alpha Legion mole.

 

The UMs can deny all they want, it doesn't make it so, the reasons for their denial are theirs, it is as always a way of making the story more mysterious.

You fanboys must come to terms with the sad truths of the story, I myself am a Guilliman fanboy, but I'm not seen clinging to the "his wounds are slowly healing in stasis" nonsense, so unless there is a major turn in the story provided by the HH series, I'll consider one of the two, if not both dead by Guilliman's hand.

 

 

Abnett didn't invent the "secrets within secrets" aspect of the Alpha Legion, it's been there long before he wrote the book.

 

True, but it was his skilful writing that started the "the entire 40K-Universe is an Alpha Legion conspiracy" rampage

 

cheers

 

Edit: spelling and grammar

[Corsair]

You do realise that 1) Alpharius was no bigger than the rest of his Legion, so he was no different physically,

 

Legion Spoilers throughout

 

Ohh, I humbly beg to differ, it is clearly stated in Legion, that he was substantially bigger than his Astartes, they even had to bring in the taller than average guy to be the double for Omegon, he may not have been as tall as the other Primarchs, but now two Primarchs resembled one another wuth the exception of Horus and Alpharius/Omegon. It is for instance known that Mortarion was probably the tallest of the Primarchs, now can Angron double him and make a fool of say....Sanguinius?

It is BTW also known that the Primarchs had an intuitive knowledge of the kinship between them and knew each other by instinct, what makes you believe that Guiliman of all Primarchs lacked that understanding?

 

 

so unless Guilliman goes on the guess of "hmm, that AL is 2mm taller than his brothers! He must be Alpharius!", discounting the possibilities that said AL might just be 2mm taller than Alpharius. 2) Horus recognised Alpharius because Alpharius was fighting alongside standard humans. Small as he may be, he still looks like a Marine, and so is easy to pick out, whereas Guilliman fought Alpharius

after the Alpha Legion took on the whole "no, I'm Spartacus!" thing, so the two situations aren't comparable at all,

 

Now that is major petty fogging on your part dear friend, the situations aren't comparable yes, but in a different way than you think. Horus actually slaughtered the entire force that accompanied Alpharius/Omegon and shot him while he was charging into him and only stopped and began laughing after seeing that the huge person at his throat was capable of withstanding him, so in how far did Horus have less difficulties to recognise his "primarchness"?

 

Besides Guilliman was familiar with him for decades before coming to blows with him, so how would Alpharius have deceived him, if I may ask?

 

and 3) the very IA article in which you're getting your information throws doubt on the events, as the Ultramarines themselves deny the battle ever took place, and the Inquisitor who "discovered" the data was later revealed to be an Alpha Legion mole.

 

The UMs can deny all they want, it doesn't make it so, the reasons for their denial are theirs, it is as always a way of making the story more mysterious.

You fanboys must get to terms with the sad truths of the story, I myself am a Guilliman fanboy, but I'm not seen clinging to the "his wounds are slowly healing in stasis" nonsense, so unless there is a major turn in the story provided by the HH series, I'll consider one of the two, if not both dead by Guilliman's hand.

 

 

Abnett didn't invent the "secrets within secrets" aspect of the Alpha Legion, it's been there long before he wrote the book.

 

True, but it was his skilful writing that started the "the entire 40K-Universe is an Alpha Legion conspiracy" rampage

 

cheers

 

I don't see that you can just turn around and dismiss the rumour that Big Blue is healing (especially with the common 'End Time' plot thread right across 40k, which from a meta universe perspective makes this extremely likely, albeit something we won't see for a long time, if ever), but you'll readily accept as fact the story of a corrupt Alpha Legion agent (who would have a vested interest in ensuring the Imperium believes his master is dead), which is denied by the Ultramarines themselves, a Chapter hardly renowned for false modesty. Yes, killing Alpharius and still getting creamed by the Alpha Legionaires must have been embarrassing, but your Primarch murdering another is something that tends to be celebrated.

 

Personally, I actually agree with the theory (I think Alpharius was killed, with Omegon freaking out and corrupting the agenda of at least half the Legion as he goes for revenge against the Imperium that murdered his bro. Hence the AL not even really knowing which side they are on, as it depends on warband), but your method of reasoning is...peculiar.

[Walter Payton]

I don't see that you can just turn around and dismiss the rumour that Big Blue is healing (especially with the common 'End Time' plot thread right across 40k, which from a meta universe perspective makes this extremely likely, albeit something we won't see for a long time, if ever)

 

Well, Uriel Ventris thinks it is nonsense, and he would have at least seen Guilliman in the flesh within the Fortress of Hera. Further, the idea that Guilliman is healing contradicts all the 40k world rules about how stasis fields work.

[Aqui]

I don't see that you can just turn around and dismiss the rumour that Big Blue is healing (especially with the common 'End Time' plot thread right across 40k, which from a meta universe perspective makes this extremely likely, albeit something we won't see for a long time, if ever)

 

Well, Uriel Ventris thinks it is nonsense, and he would have at least seen Guilliman in the flesh within the Fortress of Hera. Further, the idea that Guilliman is healing contradicts all the 40k world rules about how stasis fields work.

 

If my understanding of what a stasis field in 40k is, is correct, then a fully operational stasis field "stops time" for the subject within it. If this is correct then if the G-Man is within one that isn't working properly and merely "slows time down than stopping it", it could allow himself to heal.... Of course there's no evidence to suggest this, just a hypothesis of mine.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

When Fulgrims sanity is returned in the end time for the final battle (This is when Ferrus manus becomes the new Dragon of mars when he grows his head back and becomes the human form of the machine god thusly peeing the necrons off) Fulgrim shall have knowledge of how to remedy his fallen brother and shall free him, he will also retake command of his legion and seek out Pertuabo (for his hammer back ;) )

 

(of course that is all highly silly waffle which i want to see :P )

 

But a movie that captures just the roughest features of the HH and all that before it would need to be at least 3 hours long, or even better spread across 6 movies like star wars :D

[Jimmy Carmine]

I don't see that you can just turn around and dismiss the rumour that Big Blue is healing (especially with the common 'End Time' plot thread right across 40k, which from a meta universe perspective makes this extremely likely, albeit something we won't see for a long time, if ever)

 

Well, Uriel Ventris thinks it is nonsense, and he would have at least seen Guilliman in the flesh within the Fortress of Hera. Further, the idea that Guilliman is healing contradicts all the 40k world rules about how stasis fields work.

 

I've always read the healing thing as a form of religious pareidolia, sort of like when someone sees the image of Christ in the burn patterns of their toast at breakfast time. They hold the Primarch in such religious awe that they assume the edges of the wound are healing when it is simply how the wound looked when he was placed in stasis.

 

Speaking of which, was he dead or dying when they placed him in stasis? I'm sure it has been mentioned in canon but cannot for the life of me recall.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I don't see that you can just turn around and dismiss the rumour that Big Blue is healing (especially with the common 'End Time' plot thread right across 40k, which from a meta universe perspective makes this extremely likely, albeit something we won't see for a long time, if ever)

 

Well, Uriel Ventris thinks it is nonsense, and he would have at least seen Guilliman in the flesh within the Fortress of Hera. Further, the idea that Guilliman is healing contradicts all the 40k world rules about how stasis fields work.

 

If my understanding of what a stasis field in 40k is, is correct, then a fully operational stasis field "stops time" for the subject within it. If this is correct then if the G-Man is within one that isn't working properly and merely "slows time down than stopping it", it could allow himself to heal.... Of course there's no evidence to suggest this, just a hypothesis of mine.

 

Well, he was literally just about to die when he was placed in the field, so unless the poison magically turned into a "healing potion", for want of a better word, and started curing his wounds instead of causing them, then even if the field merely slows time down, he'd still be dying. You've also got the fact that these pilgrims who see Guiliman and say he's healing cannot have seen him twice, so they have nothing to base their observation on. It's merely religious hysteria, brought on by being that close to a Primarch. Even if the wound was healing, it's not the wound that's killing him, it's the poison the sword introduced into his body. The cut can heal, the poison will still kill him.

[Perrin]

I'd like to see the scene with the Interex at the end of the first HH book, espiecally when they are trying to evacuate Horus and he is saying something like "Where did it all go wrong" (i doubt thats what he actually says but havent got the book to hand).

[Pulse]

I want to see the ravanous pleasure scenes involving Emperors Children and the hawt daemon wenches.

 

Yeh i am a perv. ;P

[greatcrusade08]

id like to add a couple of things.

 

firstly guilliman and alpharius had actually met in person IIRC, it was one of the situations when big G gave him a verbal butt whooping for inefficient use of tactics and whatnot.

i highly doubt you can dress up some shirley to look like alpharius and expect to fool one of the brightest primarches..

i agree with the sentiment that if the battle did take place, either Alpharius or omegon is dead.. of course whether the battle happened or not is up for debate.

 

give the way the whole thing was described and then they said "it may not have happended" as an addendum.. i think its true but they are tyring to make it mysterious.. it does allow them to change it with other canon, but until tis happens, we can only operate with the knowledge we have.

 

As for guillimans healing, the only references are hushed whispers of seemingly religious zealots claiming he will come back at the end of times.. maybe it was started by the same guy that predicted the rapture recently... who knows.. most authors write about it as being wishful thinking as opposed to the actual truth which is a stasis field prevents it

[Pulse]

firstly guilliman and alpharius had actually met in person IIRC, it was one of the situations when big G gave him a verbal butt whooping for inefficient use of tactics and whatnot.

i highly doubt you can dress up some shirley to look like alpharius and expect to fool one of the brightest primarches..

Since when has Alpha Legion tactics been anything other than efficient? Lets be fair mate, all info written on their style of warfare has been written by authors with no clue about war or any grasp of tactics other than what they read in "war" books.

 

Also Guilliman might have met Alpharius, but did he meet Omegon? I doubt it as NO ONE other than the Emperor knew about the twin. If they were an exact likeness even old Guilliman would have been decieved.

 

Sort your ideas out, lol.

[Billuriye]

I want to see the ravanous pleasure scenes involving Emperors Children and the hawt daemon wenches.

 

Yeh i am a perv. ;P

 

Sex is redundant while you can get high on protein based drugs produced by liquefied locals.

[greatcrusade08]

firstly guilliman and alpharius had actually met in person IIRC, it was one of the situations when big G gave him a verbal butt whooping for inefficient use of tactics and whatnot.

i highly doubt you can dress up some shirley to look like alpharius and expect to fool one of the brightest primarches..

Since when has Alpha Legion tactics been anything other than efficient? Lets be fair mate, all info written on their style of warfare has been written by authors with no clue about war or any grasp of tactics other than what they read in "war" books.

 

Sort your ideas out, lol.

 

i never said it was inefficient, merely that Guilliman had chewed him out over something.. it may have been something else, like the dishonourable style of the AL strategies.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Id actually much rarther see a tv series.

[Pulse]

Guilliman is a numpty lets be honest.

 

If he had a pop at Alpharius for his "dishonourable" tactics then he had no idea of warfare at all.

[Ferrata]

Guilliman is a numpty lets be honest.

 

If he had a pop at Alpharius for his "dishonourable" tactics then he had no idea of warfare at all.

I would disagree that he was either a numpty or had no idea about warfare. Guilliman was from a different set of ethics, codes and morales than Alpharius. Much akin to Dorn, Guilliman believed that the tactics taken by the Alpha Legion were unfitting for Astartes. It is common for different people to have different ideas about how to do something, from running a bussiness to cooking a meal, it doesn't mean either one is correct. And to suggest Guilliman had no idea about warfare at all is really flying in the face of the established background. Even if I ignore the 5th Edition codex (purely because people will throw their anti-Ward comments this way):

Tutored on the world of Macragge, Guilliman understood the logistics of warfare better than any man alive......

Knowing of Guilliman's lethal efficiency in war, Horus had masterfully planned his heresy to begin while the Ultramarines were fighting far in the galatic south...

Guilliman was everywhere....where his awesome skills might best serve Humanity....

distilling his formidable wisdom into a might tome known as the Codex Astartes.

Guilliman might have been overly harsh in saying Alpha's tactics were "inefficient", but to a man who had "lethal efficiency", it might have well seemed that way. I am guessing you are a reasonably able at using a computer - how annoying is it to watch someone else do it slower then you could do? Now imagine that when peoples' lives are at stake and the thing you believe most strongly in (humanity/Imperium) could be bettered if you passed on your wisdom. Guilliman might have lacked a little bit of tact when attempting to pass on this wisdom, and Alpharius reacted poorly to the matter (like a sulky, last, forgotten child that was attempting to prove he was different as just as good as everybody else...like he is meant to ;))

[Unintentional Batman]

i never said it was inefficient, merely that Guilliman had chewed him out over something.. it may have been something else, like the dishonourable style of the AL strategies.

 

Yeah, it was the unsportsmanshiplike tactics Alphas used that ticked Rob off. Sneaky gits, the lot of them.

 

Ps. I absolutely hate Rob, I despise Ultra Marines. But I believe Rob's wounds are slowly healing in the stasis field.

[Blackwyvern]

Getting back on topic, I personally think that the best way to do the films would be to break the books down into sections of 2 or 3 for example a thousand sons and prospero burns or the first 3 books. Then make them into a movie something like the length of Avatar or Sleuth.

 

Now I have 3 favourite seens. When Loken tries to kill the emperor at the begining of Horus rising, when Loken gets sworn into the mournival and when Leman russ Breaks the back of magnus.

[Capt. Taurus]

Guilliman is a numpty lets be honest.

 

If he had a pop at Alpharius for his "dishonourable" tactics then he had no idea of warfare at all.

Well it's a question of philosophy and personal preference, after all Angron had his own concept of warfare, which would not have been deemed apt by Dorn, Mortarion or any other Primarch without major brain damage. Dorn, Guilliman, Jonson and Sanguinius are known to be the "honourable" guys for having a very strict warrior code

 

 

i never said it was inefficient, merely that Guilliman had chewed him out over something.. it may have been something else, like the dishonourable style of the AL strategies.

 

Yeah, it was the unsportsmanshiplike tactics Alphas used that ticked Rob off. Sneaky gits, the lot of them.

 

Ps. I absolutely hate Rob, I despise Ultra Marines. But I believe Rob's wounds are slowly healing in the stasis field.

 

LOL, very good sir.

 

But for expressing your dislike of my favorite Primarch you have earned my ire.....AAaaarrgh.

 

 

Getting back on topic, I personally think that the best way to do the films would be to break the books down into sections of 2 or 3 for example a thousand sons and prospero burns or the first 3 books. Then make them into a movie something like the length of Avatar or Sleuth.

 

Now I have 3 favourite seens. When Loken tries to kill the emperor at the begining of Horus rising, when Loken gets sworn into the mournival and when Leman russ Breaks the back of magnus.

 

And here we encounter our actual problem, the story is simply to big to be made a movie without totally beating the background. It suffices to read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and then see that sorry excuse for a movie they made, it was hideous to say the least.

 

I don't think we can reckon with a full blown movie any time soon, maybe a mini series, provided it is well done and true to the background. Be that as it may I really want to see detailed shots of the Emperor's Gene-labs and the golden throne, the complex slightly steampunkish machinery would be terrific to behold.

 

What about Loken struggling with Abaddon, that would be cool wouldn't it.

 

cheers

[Pulse]

Guilliman is a numpty lets be honest.

 

If he had a pop at Alpharius for his "dishonourable" tactics then he had no idea of warfare at all.

I would disagree that he was either a numpty or had no idea about warfare. Guilliman was from a different set of ethics, codes and morales than Alpharius. Much akin to Dorn, Guilliman believed that the tactics taken by the Alpha Legion were unfitting for Astartes. It is common for different people to have different ideas about how to do something, from running a bussiness to cooking a meal, it doesn't mean either one is correct. And to suggest Guilliman had no idea about warfare at all is really flying in the face of the established background. Even if I ignore the 5th Edition codex (purely because people

I suggest it because if was as astute as people say, then he would incorporate that style of warfare - being the smart planner every takes him for he wouldn't have turned his nose up at such tactics.

 

Common sense rolls in here.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Guilliman is a numpty lets be honest.

 

If he had a pop at Alpharius for his "dishonourable" tactics then he had no idea of warfare at all.

I would disagree that he was either a numpty or had no idea about warfare. Guilliman was from a different set of ethics, codes and morales than Alpharius. Much akin to Dorn, Guilliman believed that the tactics taken by the Alpha Legion were unfitting for Astartes. It is common for different people to have different ideas about how to do something, from running a bussiness to cooking a meal, it doesn't mean either one is correct. And to suggest Guilliman had no idea about warfare at all is really flying in the face of the established background. Even if I ignore the 5th Edition codex (purely because people

I suggest it because if was as astute as people say, then he would incorporate that style of warfare - being the smart planner every takes him for he wouldn't have turned his nose up at such tactics.

 

Common sense rolls in here.

 

Common sense, especially in 40k, isn't that common.

 

That aside, don't forget that honour often outweighs sense on the scales.

[Ferrata]

Guilliman is a numpty lets be honest.

 

If he had a pop at Alpharius for his "dishonourable" tactics then he had no idea of warfare at all.

I would disagree that he was either a numpty or had no idea about warfare. Guilliman was from a different set of ethics, codes and morales than Alpharius. Much akin to Dorn, Guilliman believed that the tactics taken by the Alpha Legion were unfitting for Astartes. It is common for different people to have different ideas about how to do something, from running a bussiness to cooking a meal, it doesn't mean either one is correct. And to suggest Guilliman had no idea about warfare at all is really flying in the face of the established background. Even if I ignore the 5th Edition codex (purely because people

I suggest it because if was as astute as people say, then he would incorporate that style of warfare - being the smart planner every takes him for he wouldn't have turned his nose up at such tactics.

 

Common sense rolls in here.

"People" don't say he is astute, the background says he is. This is like saying "People" say Astartes wear armour. Lets continue with the computer analogy. It is a perfectly reasonable method to use the mouse and the edit toolbar to copy and paste chunks of text. It is a more efficient method to use Ctrl+C/V. Guilliman was basically telling Alpha how to use the Ctrl button ;)

[Marshal Rohr]

It isnt like what Alpharius was doing was particularly dishonorable. The AL usually engages larger forces with smaller forces and uses appropriate tactics to defeat the larger force. Thats just strategy.