Stobz'z Legends.... Hello Darkness, my old friend...

[Chaplain Raeven]

That's a stellar paintjob Stobzy, you absolute madman! You should really send some pictures of your stuff to White Dwarf, I would be suprised if they wouldn't feature them. Don't forget to throw in the Warhound as well.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Is here not as prestigious?

[Chaplain Raeven]

Is here not as prestigious?

 

Au contraire, we need the magazine to allow the common plebs to witness the magnificence of the First. Remind the people the Boys in Bone are still around. 

The pairs of eyes that see these exemplary models now are too few.

 

 

You sly fox, turning a compliment in an percieved insult 

[Interrogator Stobz]

++You're Welcome Brother++

 

:D

[INKS]

Beautiful minis. Current group shot? Whats next on your list?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Cheers Brother,

Next up is a huge bunch of Titanicus, so I'll be in the +Other Games+ forum for a while....

[shabbadoo]

Lolz, good on ya Shabbz! Where have you been Brother? Out culling Heretics I hope.

I wish. The COVID and all. Been building many models, up to the point I have no excuse not to be painting now. I have many Ashen Angels (un-primered), Onyx Angels (primered black), and...uh...Snow Angels (primered white)! Excitement! Glad to see you continue to bang away at things. You have an awesome collection.  

[Interrogator Stobz]

Good to hear some good has come from the global mess.

Can't wait to see your work, which Angels are you doing first?

[shabbadoo]

Well, I have put some paint on some Necromunda Goliaths (I'd say they are 80% done), and on some Black Legion...things (long way from being done). Tons of Orks sitting around awaiting paint (that's Orks for you). But...I keep looking at the Primaris Space Marines, the "Ashen Angels." They are all ready to go. All 46 of them (22 from Dark Imperium, 19 from Shadowspear, Zakariah, Lazarus, and 3 Aggressors). I think that is it. Of course I will definitely be getting a Dreadnought to go with them, and a few of the new tanks, but there is no pressing reason to do so at this point. The 46 models are not just built though. Any extra filled in detail (due to the limitations of metal molds) on these somewhat simpler starter set models was carved away to look proper. The left shoulder pads were also carefully carved away and replaced with Dark Angels Primaris shoulder pads (yes, my miniatures are multi-layered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter, which...uh...quite frankly would be too strong for your hobbyist modeler ). I am thankful that Vanguard models did not need their shoulder pads replaced.

 

There. Now I've done it. GW will no doubt shortly release a Chapter-specific Vanguard should pad sprue, and make me eat my words (and make more work for me).

I just noticed I have never posted a project thread of anything here.  I will have to remedy that.

 

Enough hijacking though. We now return you to the Interrogator Stobz channel.

Edited June 13, 2020 by shabbadoo

[Interrogator Stobz]

:tu:

 

;)

[Interrogator Stobz]

I have given much reflection over the last couple of years to the existence of my Dark Angels post Emperor/Guilliman/Cawl/Primaris and The Great Work.

 

I am driven by fluff more than anything else, I often immerse myself in the Characters and it's a constant kick in the guts for my Astartes to know they are being made redundant through attrition.

If I had a few squads I wouldn't care at all, but I have plenty and they have their own fluff and emotional connection to me.

 

I will never add Primaris to my Dark Angels force, of which about 9000 points are normal Greenwing, almost all painted; this portion risks imminent redundancy.

 

I have approximately 4500 points of Deathwing 80% painted, and 3600 points of Ravenwing 70% painted.

The RW are approaching redundancy as GW introduces the new bikes etc. T While the DW look to be safe for a while longer but not forever.

 

 

My concerns over the obsolescence issue and my inability to find a fluffy yet practical solution to my self made issue have made me consider options like selling the lot, putting them into the attic forever or just ignore them and walk awayfrom 40k.

That doesn't sit well as I need to Hobby with them but as the fluff sits I am completely uninspired to do so.

 

Tonight a Frater in the Crazy Idea thread had a nice explanation about Primaris and Dark Angels that I immediately expanded on with my existing head canon as a possible solution.

 

Here are my thoughts based on the discussion:

 

The Emperor won the Earth etc. with the Thunder Warriors as they were tough and brutal. But short lived.

The Emperor knew that and built Astartes to prosecute the Crusade as they were designed live many centuries allowing them to travel the whole galaxy.

The Emperor predicted the HH, the long lived Astartes enabled stability for millennia until the Rift and the return of Guilliman and some other major events that are irrelevant to my issue.

The Emperor and his Great Work with Cawl in 30k included Primaris and that they be saved for later use, specifically when things were dire and that warriors better than the Traitor Legions were needed.

No surprise there, the Emperor planned this in 30k.

 

Now for the Dark Angels bit of the new stories;

Cypher and the Fallen were both directly and indirectly involved with bringing Guilliman back and establishing the Primaris lines. Cypher wants to have a "chat" with Him about something that bothers him.

Cypher has existed in 30k and 40k and back to 30k through warp rifts in the current fluff and knows a lot about the Emperor's plan to make Astartes redundant.

He is not happy about that.

 

My possible solution arises from that knowledge; I am seriously considering at least with my Greenwing and maybe with my Ravenwing and Deathwing to cross the line at the knowledge of the Emperors betrayal.

Part or All of my Dark Angels forces would become Heretic Astartes under command of Lord Cypher, my current 3rd Company Master would be usurped for that to happen.

Rules compatibility issues are another problem for another day.

 

Ouch. That hurt to type. But not as much as becoming redundant.

 

A full repaint to Black may be needed, but other options are just changing the DA icon to Red, and other options are nuln washing the green to make it nearly black. Or they could just stay Green.

I need something achievable, there are a lot of them to change if I do.

 

An option for the Deathwing and Ravenwing is to keep them Loyal so I have two large op-fors of similar sizes. It also helps as all the special DA units are in the First two Companies.

 

 

Thoughts?

All this might go in the bin after a turn in Cell 42 but who knows???

Edited June 22, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[Skywrath]

++Disregard the stupidity that I wrote++

 

 

+Dude, stop deleting your comments, they are your opinion and they do matter.

I don't mind them being different to mine, I just disagree because we have different perspectives, experiences and desires for our toys, and that's ok.

Here in the Rock we try to discuss freely, we do not have to agree or it would be boring.

Stobz+

Edited June 21, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[Interrogator Stobz]

Thanks for your thoughts Brother, I don't think we are coming at this from the same direction though.

 

I don't want redemption for my troops, I would like more GrimDark and more hatred. It's what we're made of.

 

I'm not sentimental IRL, I get to be kind, compassionate, flexible and tacticool all the time; in this Hobby I want Grimdark.

That's what the Dark Angels are all about, putting Grim into the Darkness.

 

Primaris make the Chapter weak assed and hopeful, that's for the new generation not me.

I don't want hope, I don't want new Dark Angel Units, I trust in the old and proven Astartes, I want Grimdark and hatred.

 

I may have answered my own questions.

 

 

Either way, my Deathwing and Ravenwing Astartes will stay here to hunt.

[Interrogator Stobz]

But probably not for long with them damned Primaris getting into the Deathwing after eight editions of only TDA Edited January 26, 2022 by Interrogator Stobz

[bevulf]

:( 

 

It is very sad to read that Stobz but I wouldn't just give up on your beautiful and inspiring army. You have a truly beautiful and themed Dark Angels force that you mustered over the last couple of years and abandoning is not an option imho.

 

GW will be giving rules for firstborn for years to come. They are aware that thousands of players have them and they cannot ignore that fact. They will however phase out eventually but not so soon.

 

As an alternative maybe try collecting 30k DA army ? I am sure FW will be supporting HH as it is very popular.

 

As for fluff maybe your force consists of only orthodox marines that refuse to cross rubicon primaris. SGM Azrael sees that he cannot persuade you to change your decisions so he appoints a secret misson for the whole force. You are to be sent to the different parts of the galaxy to seek any large influence of the Fallen, gather the information, report it to the Rock or engage the Fallen if neccessary. Of course you are 100% allowed to get rid of the xenos, chaos scum and other threat that can stand in your way. You cannot return to the Rock however so you will face the total annihilation eventually. Last noble mission for the Chapter that can last well, forever if you desire so...

 

There's so much options to justify the existence of your force, please do not abandon them or repaint them black or (heresy!!) turn to chaos - otherwise I will teleport to you personally (don't ask how I wll figure it out) and lock you in the Cell 42 so you could change your mind!

[Wrath of Bruinen]

What a sad day. You have built a truly legendary force of Unforgiven - indeed the name Stobz is synonymous with Dark Angels, and on this thread alone you’ve got sixty-odd pages worth of reasons to stick with your beloved Dark Angels. But at the end of the day, this is just a hobby, and if it’s no longer bringing you joy and inspiring passion, then.....

 

Like bevulf, I was going to ask how you feel about 30k. I guess in some ways the answer is obvious: if you wanted to play 30k, you would be. On top of that, there’s plenty of reasons not to jump across - the community is smaller, may of your marines are the “wrong” mk and “wrong” colour, the setting and lore are very different etc. But there’s one very good reason in its favour: it keeps you in the hobby with this truly inspiring army. With the right opponent, colour and armour style won’t be a barrier (and from memory you’ve got at least some 30k models, although there’s just too much 1st legion in this thread for me to look back and check!).

 

I find myself in the same position as you re Primaris (albeit with a much less impressive collection) and 30k as a backup gives me much comfort in these troubled times. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s enough for me. Perhaps it will be the same for you. I hope so.

 

And if not, I think your idea around a second Fall is perfectly acceptable. I’m going to commit an absolute heresy here (but hey, you opened that floodgate with all that talk of jumping ship to chaos!) - but it’s times like this that we can sympathise with Luther. A loyal scion of the dark angels and the order, left behind in favour of newer shinier options, relegated to obsoleteness and watching history pass by. Sound familiar? In those circumstances, what can a warrior of Caliban do but make a hard choice to survive, even if it damns him in the eyes of others?

[Berzul]

I think your plight is one shared by many.

 

It was over a year ago from today that I was pricing my army and contacting people to sell it. I was just about ready to walk out on the hobby for good.

 

The whole Primaris connundrum has left so many of us in the same boat. And considering I had not even a fifth of the amount of models and emotional investment you have, I can only imagine how much harder and frustrating this position has been (and still is) for you.

 

I went through a whole spiral.

 

As I said, I was just about to sell it all and wash my hands off of the hobby. I also considered just playing my successors as renegades with the Chaos Codex. Something I might still do, who knows...

 

In the end I literally stripped down my successors, created a fluff on how the army had been destroyed by a friend's tyranid host (man, those were some awesome games in a mini campaign we did for that very purpose), then started them as an entire new army. One I wrote with specific reasonings about how and why its all firstborn, and how to bring in the Primaris eventually.

 

I'm not sure where I am going with this rambling... I guess, I'm just trying to show how so many of us have lived this exact same issue (to varying degrees of impact), and maybe I am trying to sympathize, on how whatever you decide to do, it will be ok, as long you decide freely and in such a way that brings you some joy (or, at least, reduces your misery).

 

In the end, evolution is innevitable. We either change with the game and survive into its new shape, or remain in our own ways and perish in them. Surivial of the fittest, in essence. As the game changes, we evolve or die.

 

So, we either go off into the sunset of Legends with our Firstborn, or we stick around for the Primaris. We must do what brings us the most joy.

 

... Or, we can play our firstborn as proxy for Primaris, by applying the statline of the new units to our old models ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[G8Keeper]

Would you consider a successor chapter for a primaris force?

[Skywrath]

A lot of people wouldn't want to see you leave, myself included. As the WeepingAngel pointed out, your name is synonymous with the Dark Angels on this forum. Even when I was floating between the Grey Knights and the Dark Angels, your responses were one of the many reasons why I still say to this day, I'm a Dark Angel first and foremost. But enough about me..

 

As I mentioned earlier, you could go full Ironwing, as the Leviathan Dreadnoughts are better than the Redemptors. Even playing Fallen, works in your favour. Not sure about the HH, but you can surely take the plunge there. There are other options that are better.

 

Lorewise, I can't offer you any comfort, in my previous response. Aside from the Lion returning soon hopefully, what we are witnessing the death of one age and the beginning with another.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Thanks for your thoughts Brothers.

 

Bevulf; these are dark times indeed, maybe I could just cover all the DA icons in Black, the old black shield thing and go Renegade instead of going full Heretic CSM.

If it would make you come visit I'd do that for sure, it would be awesome to host you here in the 42nd Cell. And we don't have COVID-19 here too ;)

 

TWA; Heresy is just a moment away, man GW are testing my faith right now.

30k is completely nonexistent here unfortunately, so 41k options only mate.

 

Berzul; Nice to hear I'm not alone, when we go, we go in force :devil:

Your comment about change is true, it is inevitable. GW for seven editions had a 'setting', one where it was stagnant enough and allowed time for players to create huge armies with multiple of similar units; now they are all about the 'story' and creating change so everyone buys a few of the new and shiny instead of developing their collection. You can tell which I prefer.

If they just hurry up and make proxy possible I'm there, but they keep dragging it out and I don't want to wait an entire decade for that.

The best solution would be for GW to give Astartes 2W,2A and better bolters and the whole division thing goes away and we can move forward together.

 

G8K; yes absolutely, but not in this force due to aesthetics and scale. And I'd be very selective as I don't like gravis or phobos, they are too modern/tacticool for my tastes.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Totally fair enough re the lack of a 30k community. In that case, let me engage with your idea more fully:

 

As I was reading your head canon, it made me think about some comments I’ve seen people make about the Valdor novel (full disclosure I have not read that book, but it kinda doesn’t matter for my point). In the Valdor book, we see characters whose loyalty is firmly placed in the idea of Imperium, a rule of law etc, and so they fully support the emperors dream. But they are not loyal to the emperor himself, and question his more authoritarian tendencies.

 

A similar distinction might apply to your renegades. They are loyal to the ideals of the Imperium, and will fight to defend humanity, but they reject the Emperor and edicts from Terra (hence their renegade status). As the game develops, perhaps that leaves them vulnerable to the temptations of chaos, but alternatively maybe not - maybe they are able to resist the dark powers. Depends on whether the rules in the future allow for a chaos space marine army that doesn’t rely on daemon engines and warp gribblies I guess

 

Another option is that the renegades adopt a “offence is the best defence” mentality and evolve their ways of warfare to specifically target primaris - kill them before they eventually (and inevitably) betray the firstborn the same way the astartes once betrayed the thunder warriors. The Ravenwing adapt the Hunt to include primaris genelabs and Torch fleets, summoning the deathwing to execute judgement. That option is a bit more heretical, but might also be quite cathartic!

[Interrogator Stobz]

Nice, will definitely give it more thought.

Off to work now, have a great day/night all.

[Chaplain Raeven]

Don't sell your collection man, even if that is the only thing it will become: a collection. You'll regret it anyway.

 

We don't know what the future will bring, each edition units become obsolete, just to become relevant again the next year. I would be suprised if there ever came a point where Old Marines are completely ditched, that's a lot of heritage down the drain. If the point ever comes that the Old Geezers don't get any new rules, you can use them as 'Count as' anyway. Keep 'em around for a while longer.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah Brother,

I've passed the sell them stage, they're not going anywhere.

Now it's time to fully accept the new normal, we all know it isn't going anywhere, and to devise some head canon to allow me to be excited to use my boys within that setting.

 

A thorough compatibility check will be done to see which potential rules set I may use going forward.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Cripes, 70 pages of nonsense.

Yay me.