IA: Emerald Tigers - May 29th Update; See 1st Post

[Conn Eremon]

Well, Octavulg, do you think any concerns you listed in the IA's first inception are still valid with the current version?

[Octavulg]

Well, Octavulg, do you think any concerns you listed in the IA's first inception are still valid with the current version?

Since I've been meaning to get back to this for a while...

 

Which one is supposed to be the current version: the one in the first post or the one in post #20? Because the one in the first post still even has typos I pointed out in my last review (but you edited it within the past month).

[Conn Eremon]

Post 20.

 

My apologies if I take a long time correcting things like typos. Since they're not a real change of the article, I put less of a priority on them and over time forget. Not saying I don't care, just admitting I'm lazy.

[Octavulg]

It's more that if you hadn't fixed that, the other stuff seemed unlikely. I'll look at post #20 to confirm, then.

 

Looks like most issues were addressed. I'd further develop what's in post #20.

[Conn Eremon]

Huh. Just positive feedback? No further pointing out what is wrong or lacking? Not asking me what I want again?

 

I, I'm not sure where to go from here . . .

[Firepower]

I'll give it a look soon, but to be sure, post 20 is the updated/current version?

[Conn Eremon]

Yes, yes! I kind of wanted to keep the old version up as a sort of before 'n after, but perhaps I should edit it so that there is only one version.

[Octavulg]

Probably a good idea. Or put the old version somewhere where people won't think it's the current one.

 

What you want is a question that is constantly being asked, and thus I don't need to reiterate it.

[Conn Eremon]

Alright, will do next week when operating off a proper computer.

 

And I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying what I want, what I'm after, is for you, or people in general, to ask me what I want?

[Octavulg]

No. The question "what do you want" is one that should be constantly on your mind, and you should be constantly clarifying it for others. I should ask it now and again, to remind you, but it should always be uppermost in your mind and you should always be trying to ensure I know the answer.

[Conn Eremon]

Oh, sorry. Misunderstood. I suppose the logical question would be am I making what I want clear?

[Octavulg]

Well, you haven't mentioned it lately. Reiterating it is rarely bad.

 

So what do you want?

[Conn Eremon]

And around and around she goes!

 

I want a chapter shaped by tribal and feudal origins. Abnett gave my idea beautiful life when he wrote the 30k Wolves, in how I've always pictured the Tigers to have a somewhat contradictory nature balancing a civilized mind within a primitively ferocious exterior, just without the all-encompassing animal motifs. No thundertigers!

 

I want a homeworld whose nobility is sanctioned by their own form of divine right, how many ancestors have been taken as an aspirant, contradicted by those who see the material evidence of this divine right as payment, a form of wealth easily used.

 

I want a Chapter that prides and challenges itself on meeting each battle differently, though not so much that they limit themselves only to newer and newer forms of war.

 

I want a Chapter who has suffered greatly recently at the hands of traitors but has survived and is now far stronger than it once was for it.

 

And I want this IA to work. I don't have enough confidence in my ability to write to say I want it to be good. But I want it to be solid. It'll never compare to those IAs such as yours and the others who frequent the Liber of passing or better skills, but I do want this one to end up with a seal of approval.

[War Angel]

This is quite an interesting chapter, I like how it's put together, I notice that your sig says you can't wait to start making these Marines and bringing them to life, is their any reason why you've waited to start making them? I think it would be inspirational if you built and painted a single Tac squad or somthing, that way you could have the vision of what you want I front of you staring you down.

[Conn Eremon]

Thanks for the compliment, War Angel.

 

Financial concerns, mostly. I bought the Dark Vengeance set a few months ago. I'll get the paints and assorted painting/modeling tools next. It'll be a while. Maybe this year, I can be a patient guy. A new gaming computer and stable internet are priorities right now, in the unnecessary expenditures department. Its an underfunded department. I'll be painting the Knights Sovereign (an Unforgiven DIY I haven't posted yet) first as a test before I try my hand at the Emerald Tigers, though I'll be using the Chaos bits to work up the traitor villains of the Emerald Tigers' story. Perhaps you guys will see what what I can do in ETL III or IV.

[Octavulg]

Play Epic.

 

After the furor over it being discontinued dies down, it'll be pretty cheap (Space Marines were produced in vast quantities). And there are always proxy options, in any case. Rule system's better, you get bigger battles, and the miniatures are adorable. Also, you can fit an army in a 8"x8" case.

 

Epic: Armageddon: what 40K would be if it were for grownups (actually, you could make a really kickass skirmish game by modifying the Epic rules very slightly).

I want a chapter shaped by tribal and feudal origins. Abnett gave my idea beautiful life when he wrote the 30k Wolves, in how I've always pictured the Tigers to have a somewhat contradictory nature balancing a civilized mind within a primitively ferocious exterior, just without the all-encompassing animal motifs. No thundertigers!

Hmmm. Doable. Needs a little more subtle Celtic flavouring (i.e. stuff should sound Celtic without being identifiably so). I'd do a standard organization and tactics, actually, with Company Champions being unarmored berserkers (possibly with power fields, of course). How do you think the Celtic elements should manifest themselves?

 

I think you dialed the details back a bit more than was necessary in Origins, BTW.

I want a homeworld whose nobility is sanctioned by their own form of divine right, how many ancestors have been taken as an aspirant, contradicted by those who see the material evidence of this divine right as payment, a form of wealth easily used.

Well, you've got it. I'd expand a little bit on what life on the planet is like.

I want a Chapter that prides and challenges itself on meeting each battle differently, though not so much that they limit themselves only to newer and newer forms of war.

I'm not really sure how to go about this, beyond having them do this sort of thing. Could mention them keeping an eye out for innovation on the home world.

I want a Chapter who has suffered greatly recently at the hands of traitors but has survived and is now far stronger than it once was for it.

You need a Later History section for that stuff, I think.

And I want this IA to work. I don't have enough confidence in my ability to write to say I want it to be good. But I want it to be solid. It'll never compare to those IAs such as yours and the others who frequent the Liber of passing or better skills, but I do want this one to end up with a seal of approval.

Pshaw. My own works are merely the product of years of editing. Tenacity is far more effective than any other quality when writing an IA. You NEED other qualities, but tenacity substitutes for a lot of them.

 

I'd recommend some semi-outlining. Post up the IA again, stick in point form notes of different things you want to add and where you want to deal with them. Picture your Marines in your mind. Think over their story. Any little touches that stick out to you and catch your imagination should be seized and written down in point form. We'll work them in. What do you like about the Celts? What do you like about Space Marines? What appeals to you about your Chapter? How does your Chapter view the Codex? Other Ultramarine successors? How is your Chapter emerald? How are they tigery?

 

(You've dealt with some of this, it's just easier to list a bunch of questions than do that AND figure out which ones you've answered. I am a creature of least resistance at times).

[Conn Eremon]

I'm more for the painting and modeling aspect of the hobby than I am into the wargame. That part has honestly never really grabbed me. Not to mention the fact that the sole LGS we got in town is . . . filled to the brim with those who make us feel shame to have a shared interest. Last time I saw their 40k wargaming group, it was when I was picking up another Munchkins set. I took a friend with me and the place literally froze and went silent when she walked in. Followed by a bunch of people who gained a sudden interest in the manga section when she when to peruse it. Hell, I felt uncomfortable and their eyes weren't even on me (except for a few glares from those I guess thought I was with her in a different sense). Though that time I went to pick up a D&D battlemap in the middle of one of their Magic tournaments was far, far worse. The sad thing is that the site of yet another unnecessary downtown club (when the number of clubs on numbered streets is higher than the numbered streets, I think it's safe to say an extra is unnecessary) was apparently once a gaming place of awesome quality that closed before I discovered the myriad things they'd offered.

 

Anyway, minor rant aside, I'm here for the fluff, the lore, and its acceptance of our own personal marks upon it. The models and such are only important to me as material manifestations of that trait I find most desirable in 40k. The ability and willingness to create something new within it. Like War Angel said, it'd be inspirational for me if I had built and painted the Emerald Tigers into reality. And some of all the others.

 

 

Unarmored Company Champions was a joke? The idea of Marines known to be given the best gear running into battle with the most important of such missing and with little regard for whatever else they would have seems beyond ridiculous.

 

As for how the Celtic elements should manifest themselves, I honestly don't know. I'm not quite all that knowledgeable about the Celts. What I do know is that it will be mostly shaped by their myths and legends and will concentrate almost entirely upon two specific psuedo-historical figures: Conn of a Hundred Battles and Cormac macArt. By the time of the IA's first inception, Cormac's influence was utterly dominant and incorporated the whole of the Chapter's history. Mostly, that was because its original, original form was as a Missing Legion and it was from Conn that I had based their Primarch (which I still kind of miss, ridiculous as it was). When I nixed that whole thing and went to making them a more proper Chapter, using Rites of Battle to lend a bit of randomness to it that I love my Chapters for, I completely excised Conn's influence to the Chapter in the same process. Now, I want to make it more properly in line with my original views of the Emerald Tigers. Conn is going to be an ancient hero of the Chapter, perhaps THE ancient hero, whose 'Hundred Battles' bit will be his status as a Contemptor Dreadnought (because given the option between the Egg and the Box, I will choose the Egg every single time). A bit of the Bjorn to him, though not literally to the same extant.

 

With Conn taking Cormac's place in the Dreadnought, I'll be changing Cormac's bit to be much more current. Though I am in love with the idea of merging Cormac with the Once and Future King, so I will be keeping Cormac's debilitating injuries. Instead of him being interred within a Dreadnought, he'll be sent back to Tara to be worked upon day and night by the Chapter's Apothecarion. He'll survive. By the time of the Defense of Tara, Cormac is on the road to recovery, though still a shade of his former self. He will lead Tara's worldbound forces against the foe, when the somewhat less competent acting Chapter Master Cairbre struggles to breach the enemy fleet. I'll probably have Cairbre fall in battle so that there won't be any loose ends when Cormac reclaims leadership of the Chapter. Conn will also be merged with another figure, though this one literary and itself based on Conn, Dave Gemmel's Connavar, of the Rigante series, a fantasy retelling of Scottish myth and history. I'll also be using Conn's story to depict the contention between the Chapter and the High-Born, the Emperor's Children Warband and more insidious foe to the Emerald Tigers than the other Warband. I want it to be likened unto the Conn's rivalry with another High King, who between them are forced to split Ireland.

 

Hm. Come to think of it . . . Conn defeats this rival, sends him packing. The rival goes off to where modern Spain is, marries into a high-born family and uses his new wealth and power to bring another army into Ireland, where they are then forced to split it between them. Maybe I should do away with the World Eaters' original appearance. The High-born are the initial threat, but Conn succeeds in throwing them out of the Sector after many, many wars and battles are waged between them. This is what makes him the greatest hero before Cormac. He succeeded where no other before him had. But the High-Born Warband were not destroyed, only thrown out. Their desire for vengeance is so great that they ally themselves with a World Eaters Warband, the Eyes of Tivan, to strike back at the Chapter. The Defense of Tara is the climax of this vengeance, where Conn will likely be finally fall, and now Cormac is faced with half a Sector once more in the claws of Traitors.

 

Taking the latter half of the current Origins, removing the Defense of Tara and expanding on what is left so that there is no loss of space, should be enough if I'm going to have a Later History section dedicated to the Defense of Tara and present day.

 

Life on the planet . . . Well, I know I'd lik County-like governance and Clan families. Ascendant Clans in each County (not going to be the actual name, but I'm not sure what else to call them. I suppose kingdoms, so that they can be ruled by kings while the Chapter Master is the High-King) rule that area. There is no land separated for the tribal people. They live on the lands of the feudal Clans but they live apart. The feudal Clans hold tournaments to garner the attention of the Chapter, pressing their most promising youths to acts of valor as a means to impress upon any onlookers their potential use. The more tokens a Clan has, the more wealth and power they can wield and as such the more youths they can dedicate to such events at the expense of all else. Lesser Clans need their youths too much to be able to allow them to dedicate so much of their time and energy in such pursuits. Not to mention the great divide in their abilities to hold such tournaments. So there is an ever-widening gap between the greater and lesser Clans. The tournaments have additional purposes as well. Alliances can be made and broken, insults and injuries can be addressed and the greater Clans are able to avoid open conflicts with each other.

 

The tribes do not have such events. They do war with each other and will do so often. They are not exactly on permament war footing with all other tribes, not resting until total extermination. But they are a warlike people who are ever in need of land and resources. I like the idea of them keeping an eye out for innovation, though I'm at a loss how to keep that from making the tribal recruits greater than the feudal. I like the idea of there being tournaments meant to stave off true war, but it provides a stable environment in which strongly structured, highly repetitive forms of war are practiced. The tribes on the other hand are more likely to seek additional avenues of war in order to gain advantages. Do you have any ideas on how I can keep there being such a divide in recruitment rates without changing those facts?

 

What do I like about the Celts? See above.

 

What do I like about Space Marines? They are our histories and myths given science fiction form.

 

What appeals to me about my Chapter? Uh. All of it? The Emerald Tigers are an amalgamation of things that most appeal to me.

 

How does my Chapter view the Codex? The same as I do. A complex, all-encompassing treatise on all things war and Space Marine that is probably the greatest weapon in a Chapter's arsenal, but not a holy tome to be revered and hidebound.

 

How does my Chapter view other Ultramarine successors? No differently than the successors of other Founding Legions. Though the Chapter is upholds the Codex and praises Guilliman, their loyalty to the Emperor over-rides all else. They're not "for Guilliman and the Emperor." It's just "the Emperor."

 

How is my Chapter emerald? They're a dark shade of olive green?

 

How is my Chapter tigery? They have a side of primitive ferocity to them, which can only be described as animalistic, partially along the lines of the Space Wolves. Unlike the Space Wolves, they are more of a individualistic than a pack mentality. I do want there to be tigers on Tara as apex predators. I don't mean to say that tigers are to Tara as wolves are to Fenris, though. I'm thinking that there can be an Ice Age like spread of fauna, with Taran Tigers being essentially resurrected smilodons.

 

Okay, so the Origins needs a serious re-write in light of all this. When it's ready, I'll edit the 1st post to have the truly up to date IA. Please don't refrain from replying to this post though, as any C&C I get from it will help me better shape the newer version. I'll put the Crimson Spectres on the backburner until this increase in Emerald Tiger attention goes away, so I'm not filling the first page too much with my work.

[Conn Eremon]

Oops, double post. Edited May 28, 2013 by Cormac Airt

[Conn Eremon]

First post of thread has the most current, updated IA. Fire away, folks!

[Conn Eremon]

I'll be expanding on the Homeworld section to include the warrior societies that form during and after the Chaos invasion and try to improve the Combat Doctrine section for the next week, but I wanted to bump this back to the front page, get some feedback on what I have so far.