hobointherain Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 And jebus, the last line of the book is just plain awful. It took me an hour to reset my eyes, they rolled so hard. No it isn't. what is it? And then Angron woke up and it was all a dream Random Spoiler!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 And jebus, the last line of the book is just plain awful. It took me an hour to reset my eyes, they rolled so hard. No it isn't. what is it? Take their (300 random thralls in the ship) skulls, Khârn. Build me a throne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Honestly if the Vulkan is a live still and the Traitor Primarchs know where he is then I can only assume they are keep him a live rather than killing him which in turn makes me think they care enough to keep him a live rather than just ending him like Ferrus, which tbh is nice because of all the Primarchs Vulkan was probably the nicest to all his brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon Ironheart Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The Betrayer is easily the best book in the series ( yes it is even better Horus Rising) and that comes from a mainly SW player. Incredible story, characters are described better than ever and there are so many contradictions in passions and feelings that makes their behavior so much more realistic. I especially liked the last words of a WE to Khârn regarding his last wish... :lol: Night of the Wolf was an interesting side story with no clear victors in my opinion, as both sides felt they might have lost the battle... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Nice read. I really enjoyed to read Angron's opinion of the Emperor as he explains it to Russ. Because that is my own opinion actually expressed in the setting. ‘Such pretty lies! We fight for the same reasons men have always fought: for land, for resources, for wealth and for bodies to feed into the grinders of industry. We fight to silence anyone that dares draw breath and whisper a different opinion from ours. We fight because the Emperor wants every world in his hands. All he knows is slavery, painted in the inoffensive cloak of compliance. The very notion of freedom is a horror to him.’ ‘Traitor,’ Russ hissed. Angron stood tall, still grinning. ‘Do we give choices to those we slaughter? A true choice? Or do we broadcast that they must throw their weapons into the fires of peace and bow down, faces pushed into the mud like beggars, thanking us for the culture we force upon them? We offer them compliance or we offer them death. How am I a traitor, wolfling? I fight as you fight, as loyal as you are. I do the tyrant’s bidding.’ ... ‘You are free, Leman Russ of Fenris, because your freedom matches the Emperor’s will. For each time I wage war against worlds that threaten the Imperium’s advance, there comes another time when I am told to conquer peaceful worlds that wish only to be left alone. I am told to destroy whole civilisations and call it liberation. I am told to demand millions of men and women from these new worlds, to make them take up arms in the Emperor’s hordes, and I am told to call this a tithe, or recruitment, because we are too scared of the truth. We refuse to call it slavery.’ ‘Angron…’ Russ snarled. That glorious exchange makes this the best book of HH for me. Vet sarge's crits are to me unjustified, except for the harpoons. Definitely recommend this book. EDIT: I also really enjoyed how the Ultras were depicted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Honestly if the Vulkan is a live still and the Traitor Primarchs know where he is then I can only assume they are keep him a live rather than killing him which in turn makes me think they care enough to keep him a live rather than just ending him like Ferrus, which tbh is nice because of all the Primarchs Vulkan was probably the nicest to all his brothers. I don't think you understand the Traitor Primarchs. When Konrad Curze or the Phoenician orders you taken alive, that's when it's time to start digging for the suicide pills. If they have the Drake captive, it's more likely he's being used as a guinea pig in sorcerous rituals (like Erebus wanted to do with the Custodes in TFH) being tortured for information, or being tortured because it amuses them to torture a being with Primarch level regenerative abilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupe Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I don't think you understand the Traitor Primarchs. When Konrad Curze or the Phoenician orders you taken alive, that's when it's time to start digging for the suicide pills. If they have the Drake captive, it's more likely he's being used as a guinea pig in sorcerous rituals (like Erebus wanted to do with the Custodes in TFH) being tortured for information, or being tortured because it amuses them to torture a being with Primarch level regenerative abilities. It's probably not as bad as you imagine. It seems that Curze has Vulkan, and he's not going to torture Vulkan for some mystical reason that only makes sense if you're high on Slaanesh worship. There's no reason to torture him for information, either (since the whole Heresy was premeditated and Vulkan wouldn't pe up to speed with loyalist actions after his capture, anyway). Plus, Curze is a predator first and foremost, so he'd be a lot more interested in having some sport with his brother above anything else... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No...Curze will torture him for some reason that only makes sense if your mind "is eating itself alive" as the other Night Lords and the Sin Eater describe his mental state in Prince of Crows. We are talking about the ?man? whose Legion pioneered skinning other Astartes alive with little to no input from the Chaos Gods, after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This book once again proves that Titans, even Imperator, especially Imperators, are completely freakin' USELESS. What was the point of Corinthian even being in the book, except for being a mook for Legio Audax??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This book once again proves that Titans, even Imperator, especially Imperators, are completely freakin' USELESS. What was the point of Corinthian even being in the book, except for being a mook for Legio Audax??? was it a loyalist titan? if so, then its uselessness should be expected. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This book once again proves that Titans, even Imperator, especially Imperators, are completely freakin' USELESS. What was the point of Corinthian even being in the book, except for being a mook for Legio Audax??? was it a loyalist titan? if so, then its uselessness should be expected. WLK LOL it was indeed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This book once again proves that Titans, even Imperator, especially Imperators, are completely freakin' USELESS. What was the point of Corinthian even being in the book, except for being a mook for Legio Audax??? was it a loyalist titan? if so, then its uselessness should be expected. WLK LOL it was indeed I remember reading a complaint of the Heresy, probably here on B&C, that loyalist Titans exist solely to show how awesome traitor Titans are. this is regardless of the class of Titan, and regardless of the circumstances. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupe Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'm not sure if you're familiar with the rule that states that any named Imperator titan in a book will die. See Storm of Iron, Mechanicum, Helsreach among others :)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMaster Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 yeah Imperator Titans are pretty god damn bad, heard they are made in Burma with scrap from old IBM computers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epistolary Exander Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 No...Curze will torture him for some reason that only makes sense if your mind "is eating itself alive" as the other Night Lords and the Sin Eater describe his mental state in Prince of Crows. We are talking about the ?man? whose Legion pioneered skinning other Astartes alive with little to no input from the Chaos Gods, after all. If this was the case Vulkan would almost certainly be dead as Curze would have kept him on Skyfall. Considering how the DA destroyed Curze's flagship and how the Lion is determined to bleed both loyalist and traitor legions alike it just as likely that Lion would kill Vulkan as to keep him alive if he found him amongst the wreckage of Skyfall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 For all we know the Lion left the flagship stone dead, boarded her and found Vulkan. Sadly, until Vulkan Lives is released all we have is conjecture. But i totally agree Curze has been enjoying tormenting him. It's the kind of thing he'd do and theres been more than enough hints from Perturabo to lend credence to the claim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3263869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dimetrius Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I love how meta the whole Russ/Angron subplot is. I have no evidence to back this up, but to me it comes across as they author trying to tell his audience "STOP ACTING LIKE 12 YEAR OLDS BY ARGUING WHICH PRIMARCH IS THE BESTESTS BECAUSE X BEAT Y ONCE, IT'S ALL DEPENDENT ON CONTEXT DAMN YOU." I will further hypothesise that this in no small part came out from discussions raging on the internet, not in the least this very forum. Colour me amused. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 You guys think Bersark is going to be a new rank for the pre heresy Wolves when their book comes out? A sort of Company Champion type of role? Maybe a proto-Lone Wolf? Sounds awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I love how meta the whole Russ/Angron subplot is. I have no evidence to back this up, but to me it comes across as they author trying to tell his audience "STOP ACTING LIKE 12 YEAR OLDS BY ARGUING WHICH PRIMARCH IS THE BESTESTS BECAUSE X BEAT Y ONCE, IT'S ALL DEPENDENT ON CONTEXT DAMN YOU." I will further hypothesise that this in no small part came out from discussions raging on the internet, not in the least this very forum. Colour me amused. Definitely got the same impression from that scene. Also gives more credence to the idea that the Vlka Frenyka are the Emperor's Executioners. If he wanted Angron dead, even in the middle of a horde of his own Legionaries, he would have been dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think it's made perfectly clear imo that the Space Wolves out of a sense of superiority felt they were the executioners, they weren#t official though, they just decided that due to their loyalty and ability they should hold that position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think it's made perfectly clear imo that the Space Wolves out of a sense of superiority felt they were the executioners, they weren#t official though, they just decided that due to their loyalty and ability they should hold that position. Aaron has shown skepticism with the idea of the Wolves being executioners if I remember correctly. Not that they couldn't do it, but it reeks of ranking Legions which he despises. I think he makes it more legitimate by having it be what the Wolves and Russ THINK they should be as opposed to what the Emperor actually considers them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 So how do the Ultramarines get treated? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 So how do the Ultramarines get treated? Horribly. They get attacked every time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Gree: For the most part respectfully. Aside from Gulliman and another character, they are treated mostly as fodder IMO though that may be oversimplifying it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 So how do the Ultramarines get treated? Horribly. They get attacked every time. I mean how well do they perform and how well are they written? Or are they just another punching bag? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267769-betrayer/page/3/#findComment-3264177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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