Rain Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I don't think the World Eaters are "jealous" of the other legions per se, they just regret not having a primarch that inspires them in the same way that the other primarchs inspire their legions. Some of them also hate Angron for installing the nails and being unstable and broken, but I don't think any legion is jealous of any other. That's just the way it is, every legion believes that its way is best and that the others just don't realize how right their approach is. To the World Eaters the Space Wolves are cowards that backed down from a glorious battle and are led a primarch who is too craven and weak to rely on his own strength and skill and must call on dozens of his sons to save him. For their own part, the Wolves would consider the World Eaters a legion of blood-mad berzerkers that give no thought to manuever or strategy and put the thrill of winning individual battles above the restraint and discipline needed to win a war. So neither is "jealous" because both are convinced that they are right, despite a few lingering nuggets of doubt. On this topic, as has been pointed out, that entire scene was essentially ADB as Lorgar arguing with a fan as Angron. It wasn't just meta it was the author slapping you upside the head with the side of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 That is what bugs me, authors should be impartial IMHO,not biased by some thread...I'm telling you - how this heresy is heading, you'll have SW and UM on Terra....That's what pisses me off, really... Like I said,I was looking foward relaxing and reading a book without SW, but no author had to literary hit them on the front page...Apologies for overreacting to @Kol, my objection is to the contradicting authors,not you friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The author wasnt biased at all. Every Legion/Primarch was shown in the appropriate light. Best book of the series, easily, and ABD's best effort I feel as well, but I however AM hideously biased. :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The author wasn’t biased at all. . Best book of the series, easily, and ABD's best effort I feel as well, but I however AM hideously biased. :] Of course the author was not biased at all, your bias just proves your statement. But let’s not turn this into another ADB hates SW, because surely nobody is that petty, especially not an author, I do however acknowledge as always ASB is a superb writer and I love his night lord’s series. He breathes fresh air into legions that have not had much love of fluff. Just don’t involve the SW in that please. Obviously Russ and Angrons fight was only ever going to go one way. Put a pit-bull in with a wolf and see what happens. Put 100 pit bulls in with 100 wolves and then see who wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Russ is not a wolf and Angron is not a pitbull. Maybe their mentalities match but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The author wasn’t biased at all. . Best book of the series, easily, and ABD's best effort I feel as well, but I however AM hideously biased. :] Of course the author was not biased at all, your bias just proves your statement. But let’s not turn this into another ADB hates SW, because surely nobody is that petty, especially not an author, I do however acknowledge as always ASB is a superb writer and I love his night lord’s series. He breathes fresh air into legions that have not had much love of fluff. Just don’t involve the SW in that please. Obviously Russ and Angrons fight was only ever going to go one way. Put a pit-bull in with a wolf and see what happens. Put 100 pit bulls in with 100 wolves and then see who wins. The fight did't just go "one way." There is a reason I said it was a draw and that if it had kept on, it probably would have ended with both of them dying. Did Angron beat Russ in single combat? Yes. But Russ stood up, Russ had his Legion supporting him and encircling Angron. The World Eaters were not helping Angron. Like I said, the only reason the World Eaters consider it a win is because there were more dead Wolves than there were dead World Eaters, not because they actually won. ADB isn't biased against Space Wolves, he is biased against overzealous fans and the ones he happened to hit the hardest were SW fanboys. Not fans, but fanboys. And considering he took the executioner role that was debated "is it true or not?" and confirmed and just left its origins in ambiguity, he just gave the SW fans exactly what they wanted. He confirmed beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Wolves are the Executioners that is confirmed in the opening quote and in every flashback to the Night of the Wolf. So I'm not sure where this "bad portrayal" is coming from exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I really enjoyed the book, but I just wanted to ask... Does anyone like Erebus anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 To be fair, I never liked him. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I really enjoyed the book, but I just wanted to ask...Does anyone like Erebus anymore? I kinda like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I`m halfway through it and enjoy it very much. This is maybe ADB `s best book yet. It adds some really intriguing fluff points. Also he mangaed to make personalities out of the berzerker legion and makes you care for Angron and his offspring. Seeing the pre-Khorne is just stunning. Likewise, ADB managed to shape the Word Bearers to something interesting and believable beyond the B-Movie villains from Fear to tread and "Book which I will not name". He actually found a way to use those things in the story and in Lorgar`s planing which was amusing to me. Further you get a hint at the splintering of beliefs among the traitor legions and why they are going to break into smaller warbands during the next ten thousand years. i especially liked the way he describes the developing air of corruption on the WB ships. On the other points: Authors are practically biased by job description as they are forced to portray stories from Someone`s point of view anyway and all storytelling is subjetive anyway. IMO that was what a lot of people tend to forget and what caused a lot trouble withe "300" movie - it`s supposed to be campfire tale not a documentary. There are quite a lot of sidemarks about how wrong storytellers and authors are in Betrayer which I again found pretty amusing. And I also thought the whole point of the HH series was in showing different views and bits to expand the lore. And why shouldn`t an author/ ADB let himself be inspired by fans and their works? If you find something that gets the story going and expanding, why not go for it? I laughed out loud when I saw Servatar`s adress to fleet in "Prince üf Crows" and thought how cool it was using something like that from the B&C. Sure it`s fanservice but it`s pretty well done. And, did anyone like Erebus BEFORE?^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I dont think anybody liked Erebaus ever, but now he is firmly on top spot for El Doucho numero uno of the HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 To be fair, I think Russ was trying to subdue while Angron was without a doubt trying to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I really enjoyed the book, but I just wanted to ask...Does anyone like Erebus anymore? I like Erebus more than I like Kor Phaeron :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I really enjoyed the book, but I just wanted to ask...Does anyone like Erebus anymore? I like Erebus more than I like Kor Phaeron :mellow: I feel no shame to say I flat out punched the air and scared the cat by screaming yes during a certain scene in Know No Fear. Having Gulliman rip out his heart was more than a little satisfying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 When Horus and Lorgar are discussing Signus Prime, and Lorgar tells Horus that only he and Angron would be able to match Sanguinius at the Eternity Gate, do you think he means standard Angron or the Daemon Prince verson he was setting up? Would you guys consider Horus at this point to be a daemon prince with the influence of Chaos he was infected with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Would you guys consider Horus at this point to be a daemon prince with the influence of Chaos he was infected with? No, he still had a material body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 No, Horus never became a daemon prince, there is an actual transformation involved to become one and it also makes you essentially immortal as a destroyed daemon prince will just reform in the warp after a period of time although I suppose the Emperor might have been able to prevent this by completely destroying his opponent's soul. In either case it's moot because Horus wasn't one. As for the whole Angron daemon prince thing I'm not sure how much I take Lorgar at face value as far as his manipulation to turn Angron into a DP to save his life or to make him strong enough to potentially beat Sanguinius, it seems to me like his ulterior motive was actually to tie Angron to Khorne and ensure that he and his legion empower Chaos through Khorne worship. This especially seems to be the case as in The Butcher's Nails, Lorgar at first wants to find a way to remove the Nails from Angron but after a Dark Eldar lord mentions that "the pain engine leads to the Skull Throne" and that Angron must not become "the blood god's son" Lorgar changes his tune and insists that the Nails won't actually prove fatal and that it's good that Angron is keeping them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 No, Horus never became a daemon prince, there is an actual transformation involved to become one and it also makes you essentially immortal as a destroyed daemon prince will just reform in the warp after a period of time although I suppose the Emperor might have been able to prevent this by completely destroying his opponent's soul. In either case it's moot because Horus wasn't one. As for the whole Angron daemon prince thing I'm not sure how much I take Lorgar at face value as far as his manipulation to turn Angron into a DP to save his life or to make him strong enough to potentially beat Sanguinius, it seems to me like his ulterior motive was actually to tie Angron to Khorne and ensure that he and his legion empower Chaos through Khorne worship. This especially seems to be the case as in The Butcher's Nails, Lorgar at first wants to find a way to remove the Nails from Angron but after a Dark Eldar lord mentions that "the pain engine leads to the Skull Throne" and that Angron must not become "the blood god's son" Lorgar changes his tune and insists that the Nails won't actually prove fatal and that it's good that Angron is keeping them. I thought of it as less of a sacrifice to the blood god and more of a the butcher's nails are killing him so making him into a Daemon Prince will keep him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I too think that Lorgar's angle was pleasing Khorne. Angron was beyond saving, he was either to be mercifully killed or to be given to Khorne. Lorgar, ever the faithful servant, salvaged what's left of Angron and gained the favor of Khorne. Other option would be too wasteful and humane. He sacrificed what good remained in Angron (sense of brotherhood, hatred for slavery etc) for the sake of pure bloodletting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Lorgar, ever the faithful servant, salvaged what's left of Angron and gained the favor of Khorne. Using sorcery to do it. I guess Khorne can make an exception in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Do you think Lorger spoon fed some of the Primarchs to certain powers to gain Chaos undivideds favour or is that giving him to much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Using sorcery to do it. I guess Khorne can make an exception in this case. Well Khorne is a psychic entity. He may not like it but he is. Do you think Lorger spoon fed some of the Primarchs to certain powers to gain Chaos undivideds favour or is that giving him to much credit. He certainly did it with Angron. He may also pushed Fulgrim to certain path but it's just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Yep, he did. Lorgar is an :cuss. He hides behind his nice smiles and false humility but he is a serpent. I actually really like how ADB frames him because he doesn't hit you over with the head with EEEEVUUUUL like with Erebus or Typhon but under it all he is not a pleasant guy and he manipulated Angron into Khorne's open arms, though of all traitor primarchs I think that Angron changed the least in his turn to Chaos, he always hated the Emperor and enjoyed killing for the sake of it but he didn't seem too keen on actively worshiping or even acknowledging Chaos but as a daemon prince he doesn't have much choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 he always hated the Emperor and enjoyed killing for the sake of it but he didn't seem too keen on actively worshiping or even acknowledging Chaos but as a daemon prince he doesn't have much choice. He hated being the Emperor's pawn, but now he's just as much, if not more, Khorne's pawn. Sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vile Siren Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Angron may still be a pawn but i am pretty sure Khorne enjoys Angron's bloodlust nature than the Emperor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.