Betrayer

[Billuriye]

They are mostly beaten but they don't go down like chumps. RG is also praised for being an exemplary primarch.

He joins the fray and doesn't dissapoint.

[Brother Dimetrius]

So how do the Ultramarines get treated?

 

Very well imo. They face overwhelming force but remain disciplined, organised and make the invaders pay for every inch of ground they take. I don't particularly care for Legio XIII but I liked how they were portrayed.

[Brother Dimetrius]

If anyone should be interested, I wrote a spoiler-free review on the group blog that I am a part of

http://furnace.orderoftheathanor.eu/?p=353

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Like others have said, Vulkan Lives will reveal what happened to Vulkan. We know he survived past the Heresy, since there are snippets in Codexes that he opposed the denomination of the Legions into Chapters.

I liked how Guilliman was written. Especially the hating Lorgar part. And I can believe that Angron, in huge daemon form, could take him down. I mean, it took several hundred Wardian Grey Knights to just banish him...

[RapatoR]

I don't get why are some people complaining that Imperator went down. The book state pretty clearly that it was unsupported, surrounded by titans of Legio specialised in hunting down bigger prey.

[Freakiq]

I don't get why are some people complaining that Imperator went down. The book state pretty clearly that it was unsupported, surrounded by titans of Legio specialised in hunting down bigger prey.

 

Edit: Re-read the relevant part, you're absolutely right.

 

It even mentioned their speciality was hunting bigger prey.

[Olis]

Guys, can I request spoiler tags, please? I know I shouldn't really be reading the thread if I want to keep surprises for myself but still, it would be nice if the juicy bits were blacked over. :)

[Emperor's Furor]

Btw, not really a spoiler but legionnaires can bare an eagle on their chest, but they can't bare the palatine Aquila, not really sure the difference between the two though.

[DarKnight]

Btw, not really a spoiler but legionnaires can bare an eagle on their chest, but they can't bare the palatine Aquila, not really sure the difference between the two though.

I believe the Palatine is the two headed aquila symbol, synonymous with 40K, and the other is just an eagle.

[Greyall]

The Two-Headed Eagle is part of the Emperor's personal heraldry. The only Legion who can bear it is the Emperor's Children. If I recall correctly, the Big E was so touched by a speech made by Fulgrim that he gave him and his sons that special honour.

 

Which added to their arrogance, for sure, and we all know how that worked out.

[esinhorn]

This is straight from a BL Editor

This is the Palatine Aquilla the Emperors Standard and only to be worn by the Emperors Children

It is more fancy than a standard Aquilla

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc52/Esinhorn/Will%20Wright%2040k/thCADCS1D9_zps5439ab3a.jpg

 

This is the Standard Aquilla Symbol of the Imperium found on everything from supply crates to toilet shells

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc52/Esinhorn/Will%20Wright%2040k/th_zps00e7700a.jpg

[Algrim Whitefang]

I gotta say, I have to agree..this has got to be one of the finest novels in the entire Horus Heresy series thus far! ADB is a literary genius! Leave it to him to give some much needed depth to a usually one-dimensional berserker Legion such as the World Eaters. Clears up a lot of burning questions over the years. I especially enjoyed his portrayal of Angron! This is one of my favorite quotes by the Red Angel and his reasons for fighting on the side of Horus' cause:

 

"Let history mark my words well, for I care nothing about who sits proud on the Throne of Terra when the last day dawns. Horus is a fine commander, but that’s the limit of my admiration for that arrogant, preening bastard. I joined his rebellion because I can tolerate him easier than I can endure the abomination that names himself Master of Mankind. You want the truth of my life and death? I am Angron, the Eater of Worlds, and I am already dead. I died over a hundred years ago, in the mountains north of the city that enslaved me. I died after Desh’ea."

 

 

I also enjoyed how ADB shed some more light in regards to the Butcher's Nails

and the reasoning behind the XII Legion's willingness to accept the mutilation of their minds, to become closer to their gene-sire, but ultimately failing.

As well as the subject of the Butcher's Nails and Angron:

when Angron was spirited away by the Emperor on the eve of battle with his fellow gladiator slaves, and examined aboard the XII Legion's flagship by an Arch Magos with Malcodor the Sigillite, no less, present! And the Emperor's subsequent orders for the Arch Magos to keep mum on the fact that the Nails were causing severe degeneration in the Primarch's mind and would most certainly kill Angron before the Great Crusade was done.

Not to mention, the burning questions that have gone unanswered for nearly two decades in regards to the World Eaters' Libarius and their forced, shall we say, "retirement."

It was very interesting to see how the Butcher's Nails reacted to a psyker as well as their effects on a psychic mind

.

 

Did anyone else like the background on Lhorke "The First?"

Former Legion Commander of the War Hounds, before Ibram Ghreer. He was mortally wounded and was honoured by becoming the first Contemptor pattern Dreadnought. He wasn't a big fan of Angron and his subsequent changes he wrought upon the XII Legion, especially in regards to changing his brothers into raving berserkers on the battlefield!

All in all, this was an outstanding read! I hope everyone has the chance to read it! You definitely won't regret it!

[Balthamal]

Did anyone else like the background on Lhorke "The First?"

Former Legion Commander of the War Hounds, before Ibram Ghreer. He was mortally wounded and was honoured by becoming the first Contemptor pattern Dreadnought. He wasn't a big fan of Angron and his subsequent changes he wrought upon the XII Legion, especially in regards to changing his brothers into raving berserkers on the battlefield!

All in all, this was an outstanding read! I hope everyone has the chance to read it! You definitely won't regret it!

 

On this note, I found it rather fascinating how he interacts with his Primarch, displaying both the nobility of one of the first of the Legions (The original Legion Master no less) and also the guardedness, he knows full well his master is a mad dog that attacks without reason. I think it's perfectly summed up by:

 

 

"Lhorke of the War Hounds"

 

"Angron of the World Eaters"

 

 

Given some of the other legionaries' comments regarding their gene-sire, there's certainly some distance between father and sons

[Emperor's Furor]

I'm surprised they didn't just jettison him into space along with all the Librarians, they were all War Hounds and probably more likely to be loyal to the Emperor than those they killed on Istvaan III.

[Lord_Caerolion]

So how do the Ultramarines get treated?

 

Actually, pretty damned well. They don't get "attacked every time", they often manage to outmanouvre the traitors, and Guilliman manages to do pretty damned well against both Lorgar and Angron. In fact, the only reason the Ultramarines didn't totally kick ass everywhere is because the World Eaters don't know when they're beaten, and can fight when others should be dead, or dropping from exhaustion.

 

It's one of the things I like about AD-B, he manages to show the strengths of every Legion, even when they're the antagonist in the story. He doesn't turn them into chumps to make the main characters look good, which just makes all sides come out looking even better, as the antagonists don't die to a stiff breeze, and the protagonists manage to overcome the antagonists by playing to their own strengths.

 

Case in point, the battles of Armatura, where the

Ultramarines are wrecking face because they use their knowledge of the area and sound grasp of tactics to lead the World Eaters into kill-zone after kill-zone, mining buildings to deny them cover, and just out-manouvering them in pretty much every way. The World Eaters manage to pull through by sheer ferocity, with the World Eaters managing to give far better than they take once they reach close quarters, even if they suffer significant losses on the way in. E.g., the Ultramarines blockade a plaza, creating a shield-wall of Marines with boarding shields, with Vindicators behind shelling the traitors. The World Eaters take enormous losses from this, until several World Eaters, including Khârn and Argel Tal, manage to reach the wall, and break the formation, allowing more and more World Eaters to make it into close combat.

 

 

Suffice to say, if the World Eaters hadn't been such a homicidal Legion, they could have rivalled the Ultramarines in size, probably.

[Wade Garrett]

Wait a sec. ..

The War Hound Legion Master is still around? In After De'Shea, it says that every XII officer that tried to speak with Angron after the Emperor teleported him away from battle was torn to shreds, with them going down the line until Khârn, captain of the Eighth Company, was able to get through to his gene sire.

 

I hope that hasn't been written out, that short story is one of my favorite pieces of World Eater fluff.

[Emperor's Furor]

Wait a sec. ..

The War Hound Legion Master is still around? In After De'Shea, it says that every XII officer that tried to speak with Angron after the Emperor teleported him away from battle was torn to shreds, with them going down the line until Khârn, captain of the Eighth Company, was able to get through to his gene sire.

 

I hope that hasn't been written out, that short story is one of my favorite pieces of World Eater fluff.

 

No it was the first EVER Legion Master, the guy Angron killed was only the current one at the time.

[KarkassBC]

Wait a sec. ..

The War Hound Legion Master is still around? In After De'Shea, it says that every XII officer that tried to speak with Angron after the Emperor teleported him away from battle was torn to shreds, with them going down the line until Khârn, captain of the Eighth Company, was able to get through to his gene sire.

 

I hope that hasn't been written out, that short story is one of my favorite pieces of World Eater fluff.

 

Probably they realised the impossibility to calm an angry Angron with a full combat ready dreadnought. Trying to speak with him was futile. Imagine the situation, you find yourself in an unknown location and a towering metal combat machine come toward you... probably not the best choice for a dialogue

[Lord Ragnarok]

I finished this last night and just like Peturabo in Mcneill's Angel Exterminatus, ADB really added some much needed depth and motivation to Angron. I enjoyed this book very much.

[DarKnight]

Maybe the first book I've ever finished, went back and read all the awesome parts, then re-read it.

[Ju'kosian]

finished it, was a very good read.

 

I really want Erebus to die a thousand deaths.. :ph34r:

[Kol Saresk]

Let me start that this is my opinion solely from what I have read in the book. I have not read anything about Betrayer except for the snippets that were shown in other threads, although thankfully those snippets were opinions rather than spoilers. Thank the warp for that small mercy.

 

So let's get this show on the road. Also, I will be putting everything in spoiler tags because while I know everyone is looking for opinions, all of this post is going to be littered with spoilers so a blanket drop out would be far more effective then cutting sentences apart. So all I am going to say is buy the book. I liked it. I know my LGS is selling it off of the shelf so it is possible you can find one at yours. Just pick it up and look through the first twenty pages or so. If you like it, buy it.

 

 

Okay, I know I sound like one of the ADB bandwagon riders, but in a way I can't help it. I really like this book. I mean seriously. It almost made me drop my Night Lords and I've been gunning for those guys since I read it seven years ago I think. Let me simply say that I like the book.

 

First thing to address. Either the editors pulled out most of the stops or ADB managed to do what few Black Library authors manage to do, there was only one grammatical mistake in the entire book. One. There was "troat" when there should have been "throat." Considering how many BL books that I have read that are loaded with spelling mistakes, missing words, contradictions within the novel(I believe Phalanx is a prime example to find all three), finding only one mistake while trying to do a thorough read of the book itself is simply stunning. At least to me.

 

Second note, there are some rather interesting details brought up. I noticed what could be perceived as hypocrisy from just about quite a few characters in the book.

 

-First Example will be Lorgar. In The First Heretic and Aurelian, the perception of Lorgar follows what many believed the fluff stated anyways: that Lorgar was a blind fool who, while Enlightened in the process, simply traded one false god for four. That perception is carried a little further but also becomes mixed with \"reality.\" Or at least Warhammer's version of it. Lorgar is Erebus' faith mixed with Argel Tal\'s pragmatism. Because these are the gods he searched for and found, he will serve them but he will not do it blindly as Erebus and Kor Phaeron do. He will do what they want in his own way. For example, Erebus constantly believes that Signus Prime will be a success because he has engineered the situation to one of the "futures" where Sanguinius falls. But Lorgar knows better and knows that the very thing that would cause Sanguinius to fall, will actually keep him loyal to the Emperor and that those futures are false while Erebus believes them to be inherently true. And I don\'t know too many other servants of the Dark Gods who would be willing to sacrifice everything just to save one person. In this case, Lorgar sacrificed one hundred worlds and trillions of souls, just to keep Angron alive.

 

-Second Example will be Russ. In the story, we are shown that while Russ\'s title of executioner was well-known, it is unknown if it was a title bequeathed by the Emperor or if it was self-appointed. It does not go one way or the other. That point is still a Schrodinger's Cat and it's best to leave it there, especially as the book provides just enough information that it could still go either way. However, what can be considered as extreme hypocrisy on his part was shown in this quote, \"It is not enough that ignorance is acknowledged. It must be defied." Considering his stance on psykers and how his psykers are pure and their powers come from Fenris while everyone else is corrupt for drawing on the warp... Well you can see why I would say that it carries the hallmarks of hypocrisy.

 

-Third Example is Gulliman of all things. This is simply a minor note as many who have read the book know that Gulliman has a rather small part to play. In the book, Lorgar asks Gulliman why he came there. Gulliman says: "Courage and Honor." Yet in the entire fight, he is burning with hate and commenting on Calth. To me, that sounds more like vengeance than "courage and honor."

 

Third Note, the World Eaters and Angron. Or rather, their plot development. The Butcher's Nails served a rather big role for this. Literally. It was commented on every few pages. And as this was the "origin" story for the Legion\'s Heresy, it did end up playing an integral part. The most obvious fact is that as a Primarch, Angron was broken long before he was found by the Emperor thanks to the Nails. And his sons followed that path, although they did it willingly where Angron had no choice. They chose to break themselves so they could become closer to him, so they could experience the bond that the other Legions were able to share with their Primarchs. They gave up everything for their father. And it would be in the Heresy where they would pay the true price of that sacrifice. And I know some people are of the opinion "Well in 40k, there really is no way to explain what they are so they shouldn't even try it in the Heresy series because it will just be the same." The problem is that 40k is the end of the journey, not the journey itself. The Butcher's Nails are simply the medium that starts with Angron and carries the World Eaters in his wake. They are the beginning. The Emperor's intervention at Desh'ea was the ball that got things rolling. Betrayer is simply a pit stop along that path. And there will be many more before they reach the end as the Berzerkers of 40k that we all know and love. So in a way, they were necessary as they were the cause and the motivation.

 

On a sub-note, someone said in another forum that the World Eaters were jealous of the Space Wolves. I told him, not exactly. The reason why is this: the World Eaters were jealous of pretty all of the other seventeen Legions. Simply because they had a Primarch that they could bind with. They weren't lost to a mindless rage that forced them to constantly risk throwing their lives away when they could have taken an easier route with an orbital bombardment or one of the many Bloodhammer tanks they had. So to say that they were only jealous of one Legion is inaccurate as it does not tell the whole story in favor of exalting a specific bias.

 

This also leads to a form of "hypocrisy" as the World Eaters have a love-hate relationship with their Primarch now. They want to treat him as their Primarch. They want to think of him as a Primarch. They want him to be whole. But they acknowledge that he most likely never will be and that because they chose to take the Nails, they know they will follow him down into the abyss.

 

After this, most of the points I wanted to make are debate topics that I saw in other threads, sub-forums and even other forums so I am going to leave them alone as this is a review, not a debate.

 

In ending, I loved this book. I really did. The tone ADB uses when he writes is just something I can easily get into and it helps that he doesn't disappoint. Thanks for reading and this is a book I would definitely recommend.

 

 

EDIT:

One thing I left out. The hypocrisy isn't hypocrisy show much as it showing that certain events within the 40k universe are double-sided. Depending on the viewer, they could go either way. For example, the Night of the Wolf. Some view it as a World Eater win because the XII inflicted more casualties. Others would consider it a SW win because they had a chance to kill Angron with massed bolter fire. And then there's people like me who see it as a draw since both Primarchs would have died if the fight had gone on.

 

[DarthMarko]

Be mature and use my name; don't address me as "someone" it's very impolite... Btw I still stick to my opinion...without any "bias",...so don't be a freaking jerk...*******

And also I was happy reading a book without SW (yeah I dislike mushy BL portrayal of them), but noooo they are on the first page...Same was with the "Fear to tread"...

[Kol Saresk]

Well I did figure it would be more impolite to sit there and put a spot light straight on you. I said I would explain it here and I did. But you are inaccurate. You are both right and wrong. They are not jealous of just the Space Wolves. If it had to be a specific Legion, then the fact that Khârn was always specifically described as being jealous of the Ultramarines using formations and tactics in the book, then it would have to be the Ultramarines they are jealous of. But even that is still incorrect. They are jealous of all of the Legion's for the reason listed in the book: The other Legions found a sane Primarch. The other Legions don't suffer from the Nails. That is what the book says.

 

Considering Khârn and the rest of the World Eaters believe they won and responds to any other claims of what happened on the Night of the Wolf with the words "Lies and slander." after "barking a nasty laugh", "envy" seems to be the last things on the WE's minds when it comes to the Wolves. And then there was Angron's recollection from pages 290 to 296 where he firmly believes he and his Legion won, even though it was a stalemate. Not to mention the opening quote that has "The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds and the War Hounds no longer." gives the impression, that at least Khârn is happy he isn't quite so obedient. But because on the book says that the World Eaters are jealous of all the Legions with "unbroken"(to use Khârn's words on page 51) Primarchs, they are jealous of all the Legions. And saying they are jealous of just one Legion is taking it out of context and that makes it inaccurate. That is all I am saying.

 

You don't have to change your opinion. After all, I did say that perception is everything. I just looked at the totality of it. Where some people saw a red car and some people saw a Ferari, I saw a red Ferari that has a broken tail light. And if anyone else tries to say that the World Eaters are jealous of any one Legion, I will tell them they are inaccurate too. If they specify the Word Bearers, the Ultramarines, the Night Lords, the Blood Angels or even the Imperial Fists, I will tell them they are inaccurate because they are missing the whole thing because it is true. You can call me a jerk for reading the book and having a different opinion that both includes and excludes yours, that's fine. But you could have just as easily been the "better man" and left it all alone and just read my review, shaken your head and walked away.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

Simmer down Marko. Right now the only one being a problem in this thread is you.