KhorneHunter57x Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 As a C:SM Chapter player, I would rather just see an update that makes the Stormtalon AV12 (as it should be, especially at its point cost)...but I'll be very happy if they let C:SM forces use the Stormraven natively. I don't see a big problem - after all, we have limited access to it through the Allies rules, and the Blood Angels didn't hide the STC for it aren't the only chapter to use it. Vanilla Marines all ready have a flyer, and that the Storm Talon. So if they were granted the SR, then they would be the only codex yet to have two flyer units available to them. Dark Eldar don't count? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3296151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'm not entirely happy about this expansion, but looking at the size and cost(money-wise) of the stormraven, it wasn't really a surprise they'd shell it out to other chapters as well. If it's only in English, though, it won't matter to me really. My GW is known to only accept German versions of any of GW's documents for gaming. I can live with that. ;) If the rumors of a new flyer for the new C:SM, the Gale Claw, hold true, then I bet the Stormraven won't be in the codex. Well, unless the writers have gone mad again and put three flyers into one codex. On a related note, I can't agree that we will be losing our 'flavour'. Nothing of our uniqueness will be lost, and even if others can use the SR now, we can still use with much greater efficiency with DoA and our close-combat dedicated units. No one can even imitate our flexibility on the table-top, at least no other SM chapter. Oh, and no other chapter has so much awesome fluff and background material. The Blood Angels rule, and not only the skies. Hopefully the vanilla version will get some really useless missiles and no 'vanilla skies' rule. The vanilla boys will be crying in the corners of their basements...wouldn't that be a shame? :P Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3296198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Hadrarius Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Speaking as a BT player it would be nice if they rolled the storm raven out to us we do need a flyer that we can get besides using the allies rule but i can guess what some of you are feeling, we had the original LRC if you'll remember and that bad boy got rolled out so well that you guys "can" now do it better than us! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3296202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickrock Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Unless I'm mistaken, three books have multiple fliers avalible to them; Dark Eldar, Necrons and Orks. They may fill the same slots (Except Necrons), may have the same kit, but they're all different. I havn't really looked into the new DA book short of getting angry at the low marine costs... Back to the main topic;Blood Angels and Grey Knights are the only two with this flyer. And when you look at them specifically, they're both different for both books. One fills a FA slot, the other HS. One has Blood Strike Missiles (which makes it better) and the other has the Anti-Psyker missiles. One costs more. One has better upgrades (Psybot). Yes, they're the same flyer but when used to fit the book they are different beasts. As for Space Marines getting them; Its cool they're getting a little help. They didn't need it but they could use it. The trick is going to be the slotting for them. If they get Fast Attack Storm Ravens its not a big deal, they're still forced into maximum 3 fliers on the board at one force org. But if they give them the option to take them as Heavy Support like our own book then its going to push C:SM into a dominant codex, giving them emense fire power in the air (even without Blood Strike missiesl, which I pray they don't get regardless what happenes) between Storm Ravens and Storm Talons. Most armies short of Dark Eldar (who can out menuver) and Necrons (who already spam that amount of fliers) are going to struggle with this. I know we will unless we are provided the same luxurie of getting FA Storm Talons.That being said, I'm not to worried about it personally. My local players are pretty set on playing the armies they've had for a while. No one is really the "hop on the new bandwagon" type player. And those who are will be brutally put in their place by seasoned and discouraged from power gaming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3296269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 DA can field two (imo overpriced) flyers too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3296336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie1984 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Seems like its bad news for us BA, and good news for any C:SM players, the storm raven is a heavy slot for them. I do not look forward to facing 3 ravens and 3 talons at the same time.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 They just patched the flyer holes that many codexes have, particularly if the "stormstrike missiles" that C:SM Ravens get are the same stats as bloodstrikes. Almost everyone can take space marine allies, and with the storm talon in Fast Attack and Raven in Heavy Support, just about everyone can now bring in two planes with a good amount of firepower, that are effective at killing enemy planes. So GW steals from Blood Angels to address the broken flyer balance they created, and sell more kits at the same time. I'm sure they viewed that as a win-win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 So what changed about our codex in the new flier book? Says there's army list and bestiary update for us in there somewhere... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Still trying to source that info. Im holding thumbs that theyre using this as an opp to rebalance. I really hope they dont drop the ball on this opportunity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Well, all I can really say about the expansion is that the Stormraven looks ugly in Smurf colours. I'm wondering what 'new' bestiary we're getting with the book. A Stormtalon doesn't seem like a good trade off... Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 it might mean we are supposed to buy the book to get updated points on the storm raven or something. also, SW still don't have a flyer, neither do Eldar unless they are giving them the DE one and the Tau are left out too, though i expect they will get an update with new stuff sooner rather than later and that's why they didn't get one now, but why nothing for the SW? i can't imagine they are up for an update any time soon, so i guess they just get the bone, huh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 It's very strange why they allowed C:SM and C:BT to use it and not the other main chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondow Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Explain to me how you read the faq to let us still use it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Haha if there's vanilla missiles then does that mean skies of blood will turn to chocolate rain ;) ? The problem with it is that SM get something that was unique to BA and we don't get anything in return, and I almost don't want anything in return because then the lines become muddied. If our spiritual liege wants everything in his codex that's just bs, probably just new bloods will continue to buy them for their vanilaness and vets will shy away from using them if they play SM. Good job GW you just got more money and made some fans angry but we will all keep paying like we do. At least GW made some bundles for fliers today http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=7900020 I got a laugh out of the flight of the Valkyries Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 it might mean we are supposed to buy the book to get updated points on the storm raven or something. also, SW still don't have a flyer, neither do Eldar unless they are giving them the DE one and the Tau are left out too, though i expect they will get an update with new stuff sooner rather than later and that's why they didn't get one now, but why nothing for the SW? i can't imagine they are up for an update any time soon, so i guess they just get the bone, huh? I'd guess DA have been left out cos they got 2 of their own in the new book, and SW because of the 'feet on the ground' fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 SW are always flying round in Gunships in the fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I have no idea why they removed Skies of Blood and changed it to Skies of Fury.... why make the BA one worse? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I have no idea why they removed Skies of Blood and changed it to Skies of Fury.... why make the BA one worse? Because nobody could have something that's better than Mat Ward's precious Ultramarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Explain to me how you read the faq to let us still use it? Dont stress about the FAQ Gondow, that's simple poor wording- an oversight, pure and simple. They have an entire new book, with a section dedicated to the BA Storm Raven specifically, theyre not going to purposely have a faq to not allow it on the same day they release said book. On a small side note regarding this.... As mod on this forum, I will not, even for a second, entertain the banal, misguided and completely infuriating notion that this is how the rule is suggested to be played. If people want to joke about the implication for "lolsies" or for the simple "academics" of the argument- go ahead. If people want to seriously entertain the notion that GW intends for BA to not have ravens because of that poor wording, or they intend imposing or enforcing it anyway or on any members in this forum, then they can move along to another BA forum that supports rampant douchebaggery and other interactions that are completely void of social empathy and other basic social skills . It is obvious to the point of pain what is intended. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumo9 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Very disappointing that other chapters get the Stormraven and that skies of blood has been changed (check the new FAQ). It seems like the Stormraven will be identical regardless of which codex uses it. That is a real shame to loose our uniqueness and as other have said, we don't get anything in return. There is the optimistic part of me that thinks maybe we will get a BA only flyer soon or a new 6th edition codex will be coming out imminently with new unique BA toys - but then reality hits like a well aimed half-brick and I am rapidly going off this hobby that I have invested a huge amount of time and money in G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Seriously, the people who write these FAQs are starting to cause more problems than they are resolving Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjoad Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 So, we share one unit that wasn't even unique to us anyway and it's all doom and gloom? Did the other marines get Baals? Fast rhino chassis? Can they take assault marines as troops? Can they spam AV13 or Land Raiders? Did C:SM get Libby Dreads? All the complaining about this is much ado about nothing. I wish we'd been given the talon as well, but let's all avoid sounding like a pack of reactionary BOLS-trolls. This is supposed to be the big kid message board, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I must admit I'd have rather of liked to be able to field a tallon as well.... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the future! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Just going to jump in and point something out that's not 100% relevant to BA directly, but it looks like all flyers lost special rules. Specifically, as well as all losing Deep Strike (DE fliers lost out there too), the Valkyries and Vendettas can't outflank anymore. Could be useful for those prone to allying with them or being given fits by facing them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Well said Tom. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/2/#findComment-3306708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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