Drunken Angel Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 What would Dante say if he heard that people were 'through with Blood Angels' because of this news? He'd probably swing his axe in (Black) rage, but we'd all have ample time to escape because GW nerfed him down to I1 before giving every 6th ed codex someone that swings at initiative with AP2. :eyeroll: Laughing at that one, losing Skies of Blood was a bad idea all GW had to say was BA still use the rule as per our codex and I would happily have shared the Raven out. Now I seem to have trouble getting out of the damn thing? because its used by other chapters too now ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3307341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The stupidity of this book is the fact it is only available via mail order. It's like a side note. Yet it is a legal requirement. Very annoying. So is the annoyance of the retraction of Skies of Blood. So is the utter futility of putting infantry in the things. *shrugs* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3307379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 To add further to my statement (can't remember if it was in this or the other thread) on the matter, I'm not annoyed with the rolling out of the Raven to other armies. Or even the changes to the Skies of X rule to make it uniform. My issue is with the way they've done it, rather than what they've decided to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3307484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjoad Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 To add further to my statement (can't remember if it was in this or the other thread) on the matter, I'm not annoyed with the rolling out of the Raven to other armies. Or even the changes to the Skies of X rule to make it uniform. My issue is with the way they've done it, rather than what they've decided to do. They released the talon in WD and got hammered for it for not making a PDF, which is fair, but all the changes here ARE available via PDF, so what's the complaint? BT and SM players might buy this, but there is nothing relevant to BAs, so I'm not sure this criticism is at home on a BA board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3307525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 To add further to my statement (can't remember if it was in this or the other thread) on the matter, I'm not annoyed with the rolling out of the Raven to other armies. Or even the changes to the Skies of X rule to make it uniform. My issue is with the way they've done it, rather than what they've decided to do. They released the talon in WD and got hammered for it for not making a PDF, which is fair, but all the changes here ARE available via PDF, so what's the complaint? BT and SM players might buy this, but there is nothing relevant to BAs, so I'm not sure this criticism is at home on a BA board. The fact that the rules for the Storm Raven will now potentially require us to refer to the flyers supplement rather than just FAQ'ing the whole thing. The changes aren't necessarily all available via PDF, we won't know until someone has an actual physical copy of the supplement. They could suddenly decide that all Ravens are now 250 points rather than their current cost, amongst other things - its a bit of a Schrodinger's Thunderpigeon situation at present. That, and the posterior-from-elbow brigade were clearly given the task of doing the rulebook faq consisting of a pretty major derp moment. This was more pertaining to my comments in the other thread re: the notion that the supplement is currently looking to be completely unnecessary; and before the obvious is stated I know I don't have to buy one and I'm not intending to. It would have been easy enough to add it to the SM/BT errata if they'd wanted to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3307615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm really not ok with the sky's of blood changes prompted by this book. Going only 6" isn't much considering that you are supposed to be moving practically all the time with the thing. Additionally, I am confused about the whole deepstrike stuff. Was this also prompted by this new book? Why are we paying 200+ points for this thing again? Also, are BA going to have access to the storm talon? I don't really want or need one but it would be fair since we gave up a signature piece from our codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3307705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumo9 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The C:SM digital codex has just updated to include the Stormraven. I won't quote the points for upgrades (incase it is against Forum rules) but extra armour and locator beacon are a lot cheaper than in C:BA. Also the missiles are Str 8, AP 2 and Concussive. Unless we get some seriously good update to our Stormraven, it looks like us BA's fell out of the nerf tree and hit every branch on the way down! G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I hope our version gets updated to the same cost then, else I'll be seriously pissed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The C:SM digital codex has just updated to include the Stormraven. I won't quote the points for upgrades (incase it is against Forum rules) but extra armour and locator beacon are a lot cheaper than in C:BA. Also the missiles are Str 8, AP 2 and Concussive. Unless we get some seriously good update to our Stormraven, it looks like us BA's fell out of the nerf tree and hit every branch on the way down! G Is the base cost the same as the BA version? The way it's being talked about the SR for Space Marines is cheaper than BA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathstrider Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It's the same basic cost. Honestly, the extra armour and locator beacon reductions are really nothing. I suspect in the case of the former it reflects it's a lot less useful in 6th ed. Mark Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Uhuh. Sounds good to me. I'd not waste my points on extra armour really. It's extortionate in 40K! It's not all doom and gloom for BA players, it's just SM players are now on an even keel. (don't worry about Storm Talons, they aren't so popular amongst Marine players) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well, the locator beacon is at least annoying since Skies of wonky legs forces anyone that scatters to make a dangerous terrain test. It's no big deal since the odds losing a model to that are quite small, but it's annoying. A nuisance, if you will. The C:SM digital codex has just updated to include the Stormraven.I won't quote the points for upgrades (incase it is against Forum rules) but extra armour and locator beacon are a lot cheaper than in C:BA. Also the missiles are Str 8, AP 2 and Concussive.Unless we get some seriously good update to our Stormraven, it looks like us BA's fell out of the nerf tree and hit every branch on the way down!G I'm quite happy about the Vanilla missiles. Even though I'd liked to see them at S6, the AP1 is the real issue that made them so dangerous against everything including tanks. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathstrider Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I don't think locator beacon will work with Skies of Blood/Fury given you deploy after the Raven has made it's full move - so it won't be within 6". Don't get me wrong, I'm still annoyed that they changes skies of blood at all. Plus I'd have liked to take Storm Talons - the points reduction makes them very tempting now. Mark Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 S6 missiles are all but worthless, and an expensive transport like a Stormraven needs to have some quality firepower. S8 AP2 is still good and provides a genuine difference between Bloodstrike and Stormstrike missiles. Concussive is interesting though highly situational. It does mean I can knock a wound off a monstrous creature like a Bloodthirster and then charge the thing and strike before it does. Aside from that, most things will die if they suffer unsaved wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 S6 missiles are all but worthless, and an expensive transport like a Stormraven needs to have some quality firepower. Psssht don't tell the Dark Angels! I don't think locator beacon will work with Skies of Blood/Fury given you deploy after the Raven has made it's full move - so it won't be within 6". Don't get me wrong, I'm still annoyed that they changes skies of blood at all. Plus I'd have liked to take Storm Talons - the points reduction makes them very tempting now. Mark Mh, true I'm a bit rusty concerning the locator beacon on a Raven because with DoA and Skies of Blood, I never used one. So, what do Storm Talons cost now? No exact point costs, maybe something along the lines of an MM attack bike +... Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathstrider Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Bit over a marine less, TL Lascannon and Typhoon upgrades cost more to make a Talon with one of those similar to before. So Skyhammer looks like a good upgrade now. It's also got rid of the hover strike rule and replaced it with the strictly better strafing run... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It gains the 'Hover' type as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 This is the farthest thing from a "nerf". Nothing's happened to our birds. In fact, we still keep AP1 bloodstrikes, which is all sorts of cool. 10 Points for EA is not a huge change, and if its now 5points, then thats really cool, but not something that swings the power balance way over to SM from BA ravens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It surely won't affect things that much, but it still feels very wrong that C:SM should have cheaper upgrades than the chapter who had it first :/ Their missiles being AP2 is nice, and concussive isn't as good anymore as I thought (no automatic crew shaken result or whatever on hit), else I'd be really jealous^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 This is the farthest thing from a "nerf". Nothing's happened to our birds. In fact, we still keep AP1 bloodstrikes, which is all sorts of cool. 10 Points for EA is not a huge change, and if its now 5points, then thats really cool, but not something that swings the power balance way over to SM from BA ravens. Agree its all good AP1 is a nod in our direction and the rest was window dressing, someone must have drugged and tied Matt Ward up to make sure CSM did not get the awesomsauce of AP1 !. Over all I am not unhappy (skies of blood nerfing is irritating but is hardly the end of the world) the Storm Raven is the pre-eminent assault and support flyer of 6th it was always going to be spread around. Here is a crystal ball prediction I can see codex space marines with their 6 flyers and a libby with null zone being the rock to the scissors thats flamer screamer spam. I can also see the necrons getting their silver crossants shot out of the air and their wraiths blasted to dust by the new blue max flying circus the ultras just got. Thats actually good for us BA they are battle brothers are they not? Sorry Chaos you guys are really boned without access to a flyer transport. Chaos ? now there is an army thats codex is 3 years old in less than 6 months as good as a helldrake is its summer is already over and so is the maulerfiends the amount of flyers out there now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This update changes very little in terms of power balance. SM don't have to use allies to get a flying transport. Chaos already have one of the best fliers in the game (heldrake) and can ally in the other top two (vendettas and 'scythe). The lists going carzy with fliers (more than 4 below 2k) weren't that strong to begin with anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soups Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This is the farthest thing from a "nerf". Nothing's happened to our birds. In fact, we still keep AP1 bloodstrikes, which is all sorts of cool. 10 Points for EA is not a huge change, and if its now 5points, then thats really cool, but not something that swings the power balance way over to SM from BA ravens. I do not like the new Skies of Blood (forever and always. Just like Litany of Hate. You can't stop my marines from hating everything when my chaplin is near). I enjoyed kicking out my terminators next to whatever I felt like as a nice distraction unit so the rest of my assault marines can get there. Due to the wording, I am pretty sure you can now only disembark units when in hover, which is a stipulation in the BRB. Since all vehicles only get to go 12" before the shooting phase, it's a complete boondoggle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 It surely won't affect things that much, but it still feels very wrong that C:SM should have cheaper upgrades than the chapter who had it first :/ The points costs of the upgrades are over the top in 5th edition Codex books. Extra armour and Locator Beacons especially. I rarely, if ever, saw them in armies. This is an indicator something is wrong. Now, GW don't amend points costs in FAQs and rarely in Compendiums, the Storm Talon standing out by virtue of not having a Codex or Supplement entry (I.e. This setting it in stone). We shouldn't resist positive amendments to the game to rebalance it and actually make sense of the items in the future. We should never be upset with progress, but be happy GW isn't making the same mistakes just because it's already in print. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 We shouldn't resist positive amendments to the game to rebalance it and actually make sense of the items in the future. We should never be upset with progress, but be happy GW isn't making the same mistakes just because it's already in print. im with you on this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Can someone explain why the Skies of Fury change is so much worse than Skies of Blood? I'm not as familiar with 6th edition, and even while looking at the BA codex, the FAQ and the BRB, I'm still not seeing what is so terrible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/270465-storm-raven-going-vanilla/page/4/#findComment-3308993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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