Dark Angels questions

[Nasse]

So, my local retailer has these smaller, heavier boxes of Dark Angels company veterans. They look otherwise the same as the current veterans box, except I am pretty sure there are metallic parts inside. I wonder what those parts are? From a time before the upgrade sprues, perhaps?

 

I'd also like to know how the new codex is regarded. From what I've seen, all the "wings" of the army seem rather competitive currently?

Any pitfalls I should avoid when making a list?

[Azrael Turnbull]

Yes, the metal Dark Angels veterans were what we had before the plastic sprues became available to us.

 

Your last question is a little ambiguous. Are you asking for help to write a competative list or to be as fluffy as possible? It also depends on whether you want to go for Greenwing, Deathwing, Ravenwing or a selection from all three.

[Nasse]

I was wondering if they're 100% metal or a mix of plastic and metal parts?

 

I was asking just...well in general. Are there any bad units? I intend to make a mixed army of all three "wings" with a focus on deathwing.

I like fluff more than being competitive, but I'd like an army that's not intentionally shooting myself in the foot.

[m_r_parker]

Well, GW still sell these older metal DA Veterans on their website (in the 40k Collectors section), here's the link - http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490654&prodId=prod1140198

From memory the legs, torso and head are a single piece, and comes with a plastic bolter, arms and shoulder pads. It also comes with one of a variety of Dark Angel shoulder pads (only one mind, not a pair). 2x Veterans to a single blister pack.

 

unless you're talking about the older Dark Angel tactical squad, which was the older pack which contained a metal Plasma Cannon marine, metal Veteran Sergeant and a plastic tactical squad. You can pick up the Vet Serge on the GW website seperately.

 

I do like the older veteran models, breaks up the slight monotiny in the veteran sprue.

[march10k]

Things to avoid....hmmm.  Well, assault squads, nephilim, dreadnoughts, company veterans, and scouts are not really competitive, but they're fine for casual play (in particular, I include assault squads and dreadnoughts when there're no prizes on the line), and company masters, basic chaplains, and LSVs should never be taken. 

[Azrael Turnbull]

As above.

 

Vengeance Speeders are precarious, too.

The Nephilim, although crap as far as flyers go, is still useful for punching through that easy to reach side/rear armour of vehicles, but little else.

[Brother dean]

Take your phone in and take a pic of the box in question... I dont know that GW ever produced DA metal Vets in boxed sets.  Unless it was a little 5 man box like the Aspect warriors...

 

 

As for competitiveness, it depends on how you play... I cannot make a bike list work because it isnt in my nature. I grew up on the Gunline lists of 3rd so a mobile list is something I struggle with. Termies however are a walking gunline so I adapted to them well. Do you know if you have a "playstyle" and what is it?

[Nasse]

Take your phone in and take a pic of the box in question... I dont know that GW ever produced DA metal Vets in boxed sets.  Unless it was a little 5 man box like the Aspect warriors...

 

 

As for competitiveness, it depends on how you play... I cannot make a bike list work because it isnt in my nature. I grew up on the Gunline lists of 3rd so a mobile list is something I struggle with. Termies however are a walking gunline so I adapted to them well. Do you know if you have a "playstyle" and what is it?

Well so far I've played only Tau and Dark Eldar, and of those, I've only had a sensible army with DE. My playstyle is best described as "unlucky". (Seriously, my clubmates bought me a box of dice because they thought my BfSP dice were weighed for rolling under 3s). Anyway, I think my playstyle is sort of "in your face", as necessitated by playing Dark Eldar.

[bluepillredpill]

Nephlim does have a place against light inf and weaker armour, plan on using against dark eldar on friday, may even get into a dogfight contest if he's taking his flyer support

[Brother dean]

Well then you might make a bike list work.  The theoretical is to take Sammael, some Black knights, assorted other bikes/speeders and a Dark Talon.  Dark talon drops bomb and BKs slaughter the squad.  Later rounds, BKs put a rad grenade into a squad reducing "I" to one, Dark Talon then hits them with the stained glass gun which causes Blind on a failed "I" roll reducing WS and BS.  Bikes slaughter in HtH...

 

My problem is keeping bikes alive until the plane shows up.  Termies have gotten me used to not bothering with cover...   I recognise my failing and will strive to correct it.

 

And yes my playstyle is also "unlucky."  I got some square cornered dice and it came up to "average" luck unless I am playing my buddy and then I can't fail an Invul save....

[Jehoel]

Well then you might make a bike list work.  The theoretical is to take Sammael, some Black knights, assorted other bikes/speeders and a Dark Talon.  Dark talon drops bomb and BKs slaughter the squad.  Later rounds, BKs put a rad grenade into a squad reducing "I" to one, Dark Talon then hits them with the stained glass gun which causes Blind on a failed "I" roll reducing WS and BS.  Bikes slaughter in HtH...

 

My problem is keeping bikes alive until the plane shows up.  Termies have gotten me used to not bothering with cover...   I recognise my failing and will strive to correct it.

 

And yes my playstyle is also "unlucky."  I got some square cornered dice and it came up to "average" luck unless I am playing my buddy and then I can't fail an Invul save....

 

Just point here, rad grenades do Not reduce I at all, stasis grenades do and only by 1 point. Rad grenades reduce T by 1.

[Nasse]

I will see how I like painting bikes. So terribly expensive...

I am not too big on them though, even though I'd eventually want to fill my fast attack with them.

I have put my current army list up on the army lists section for comments but haven't re cived any, it also shows all my current models and pretty much how I want my army to look.

[Brother dean]

 

Well then you might make a bike list work.  The theoretical is to take Sammael, some Black knights, assorted other bikes/speeders and a Dark Talon.  Dark talon drops bomb and BKs slaughter the squad.  Later rounds, BKs put a rad grenade into a squad reducing "I" to one, Dark Talon then hits them with the stained glass gun which causes Blind on a failed "I" roll reducing WS and BS.  Bikes slaughter in HtH...

 

My problem is keeping bikes alive until the plane shows up.  Termies have gotten me used to not bothering with cover...   I recognise my failing and will strive to correct it.

 

And yes my playstyle is also "unlucky."  I got some square cornered dice and it came up to "average" luck unless I am playing my buddy and then I can't fail an Invul save....

 

Just point here, rad grenades do Not reduce I at all, stasis grenades do and only by 1 point. Rad grenades reduce T by 1.

I did say that I am not good at running bikes....

[Nasse]

Oh, and as a response to taking a picture of the dark angels box; I am stuck in my garrison until next weekend, but if memory serves me right, the box looked the same as the plastic vets box but thinner, heavier, and a rattling sound when shaken/stirred/grabbed from the shelf.

[IndigoJack]

Things to avoid....hmmm.  Well, assault squads, nephilim, dreadnoughts, company veterans, and scouts are not really competitive, but they're fine for casual play (in particular, I include assault squads and dreadnoughts when there're no prizes on the line), and company masters, basic chaplains, and LSVs should never be taken. 

Not sure I agree with all of that. Vets can be a great disruption unit when placed in a drop pod. Rifledreads are also still considered competitive AFAIK

[m_r_parker]

Oh, and as a response to taking a picture of the dark angels box; I am stuck in my garrison until next weekend, but if memory serves me right, the box looked the same as the plastic vets box but thinner, heavier, and a rattling sound when shaken/stirred/grabbed from the shelf.

 

Sounds like the old DA Tactical Squad box from third edition. Think standard Tactical Squad (can't remember if it's the current tactical squad or the previous one) with a metal DA Vet Sergeant (which is actually no longer available on the GW website, has a plasma pistol and chainsword) and a metal Plasma Cannon marine.

Given the release of Dark Vengeance, this box is identical to the tactical squad in the starter box - except that the one in the starter box is 100% plastic, and most likely cheaper to buy on eBay. If it were me, I would only buy it for the Vet Sergeant.

[Aegnor]

So just confirming, the consensus is that non-special character Grand Masters are no good? I don't like to always have a special characters but the ability of either Belial or Azrael to make Deathwing troop choices just seems too good to pass up.

[Shiodome]

Things to avoid....hmmm.  Well, assault squads, nephilim, dreadnoughts, company veterans, and scouts are not really competitive, but they're fine for casual play (in particular, I include assault squads and dreadnoughts when there're no prizes on the line), and company masters, basic chaplains, and LSVs should never be taken. 

 

avoid dreadnoughts?  i find my 2 rifleman dreads to be the most reliable units in my greenwing to be honest.

[Nasse]

On another unrelated note, would someone care to remind me why exactly the basic lascannon land raider is not really worth it when compared to others?

[Brother dean]

It is too helter skelter.   If you move you can only fire two weapons (one with PotMS) and since the Las are on the sides you need to position it carefuly to get both to bear on a target.  Lascannon are used as anti tank weapons and not really considered infantry killers while the HB wont scratch most of the vehicles you need the lascannons for so you usually dont end up using it at all.  Once upon a time there was a WD article on this and it said if you are picking a Landraider, the points cost is for being able to transport a squad across the field in (relative) safety.  If you sit it still to shoot all the weapons then the embarked infantry doesnt get where it is supposed to go.  It is a tank that tries to be an all rounder and fails.  Jack of all trades and a master of none. 

 

The LRC however has a very definable mission.  Close in Anti Infantry and deliver the squad, with a little bit of anti tank for close in squad support.  I can regularly kill/break a 10 man squad a turn with one, in addition to whatever the embarked squad does.

 

Now I do own 1 LR and 2 LRC and I would love to have more LRC/Redeemers,

[Aromir]

It is too helter skelter.   If you move you can only fire two weapons (one with PotMS) and since the Las are on the sides you need to position it carefuly to get both to bear on a target.  Lascannon are used as anti tank weapons and not really considered infantry killers while the HB wont scratch most of the vehicles you need the lascannons for so you usually dont end up using it at all.  Once upon a time there was a WD article on this and it said if you are picking a Landraider, the points cost is for being able to transport a squad across the field in (relative) safety.  If you sit it still to shoot all the weapons then the embarked infantry doesnt get where it is supposed to go.  It is a tank that tries to be an all rounder and fails.  Jack of all trades and a master of none. 

 

The LRC however has a very definable mission.  Close in Anti Infantry and deliver the squad, with a little bit of anti tank for close in squad support.  I can regularly kill/break a 10 man squad a turn with one, in addition to whatever the embarked squad does.

 

Now I do own 1 LR and 2 LRC and I would love to have more LRC/Redeemers,

 

I have disagree here, the whole point of having PotMS is that you can fire at two different targets, finding a target on each side usually isn't a problem. 

 

For me the reasons for not bringing a Godhammer, usually has to do with ether transport capacity (2 terminators can make a big difference sometimes) or army composition. Simply put, after the price cut on Lascannon Devastators, I don't really need the Lascannons on the LR that much. So I tend to use a crusader, but that dosn't mean i have put away my Godhammers.

[Upstartes]

TL LCs make for passable anti-air too.

[Nasse]

I am gonna be stuck in a hospital ward for the weekend, and I am really anxious to get home to get started on painting my models, or possibly even getting new ones to make that 1,500 points.

I've mostly designed my own colour schemes for my models so far, and to be honest, I just want to go with an official chapter for once! I'm just having a hard time deciding which one to go with. Maybe just normal Dark Angels? Aren't there some successors with black armour too? I'm just dying for some modelling/painting ideas and/or discussion!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Consecrators are DA sucessors in black armour. :)

[Nasse]

Yes, I can remember them from the previous codex. They sound somewhat cool but their badge is so compöicated looking. Wasn't there some other black-armoured chapter too? Introduced for the first time in this codex?

Also, any modelling tips for them? I love assembling models over everything else.

And another question, since the rifleman dread seems to be the only viable option (why not assault cannon/missile launcher by the way?) How could I go about converting one without FW parts? I've been missing the patience to order anything online recently.