1850 tournament: Game 1and 2 posted

[Polythemus]

Here is the first installment of a three game tournament I attended recently. It was a local tourney with 10 players and the first time i had ever been to a tournament. Game 1 was against chaos.
Game two was against Necrons.
Game three was against a Vulkan list.

any comments and criticisms appreciated.

[Giga]

Really nice battle report. Excellent effort, especially since it's your first, keep up the good work. :]

 

Some advice:

 

- you should always keep your banners, sergeants, heavy weapons, even special weapons, in the back of a unit to protect them from having to pass saves and possibly die (6th ed shooting rules place wounds on closest models first)

 

- against a heldrake, try to get your 3+ save models (black knights & bikers) into combat as soon as possible to avoid them getting wiped out

 

- you lack anti-flier, which for DA means you need allies, tau, IG, even vanilla marines (although I wouldn't advise this), an aegis defende line with quadgun, are all good options, failing that a couple tac squads with flakk missiles aren't necessarily bad (if anything, they'll force grounding tests on flying MCs)

 

- power shield generator on librarian would make your black knights a lot more survivable vs low AP and stuff like heldrakes, while making the libby himself better in combat (ofc you will routinely "forget" to tell your opponent he also gets a 4++ from the power field if he's close enough, it's a dumb rule anyway ;])

 

- spread your stuff, 2" between models is perfectly fine, especially when there's a heldrake present

[Polythemus]

Yeah it was fun. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

The first game was fun since i had never played chaos with the new dex and had never fought a helldrake, despite reading tons about it on the net. It lived up to expectations.

 

Some good general advice there giga and although i know it all in practice, my first game i was getting the kinks out of my brain and forgot a ton of stuff.

 

In game 1 i was trying to get my black knights in combat vs the plague marines but my shooting was too efficient and i should have considered that when choosing targets. I was able to get the RAS into combat but it amounted to little as they couldnt cause the cultists too flee.

 

pS game 2 is posted

[Giga]

The moment I saw the opponent's list in the 2nd battle I knew you were screwed, and frankly you did a lot better than I expected. 3 night scythes vs no skyfire are pretty much auto-win, as not only do they do insane dmg at a low price, they can just drop off warriors at last turn for a free score/deny on objectives.<br /><br />On the whole, necrons are so overpowered compared to marine dexes there's really no comparison. Thank god they don't let Ward write any more of his crap.

[Brother Ambroz]

 

Thank god they don't let Ward write any more of his crap.

 

 

SHHHH!!! Don't say that so soon....or did they officially fire him? That'd be awesome if they did....

 

Anyway, going to read these tonight when I get home Poly. Your batreps are always fun to read!

[Polythemus]

 

 

 

Thank god they don't let Ward write any more of his crap.

 

 

SHHHH!!! Don't say that so soon....or did they officially fire him? That'd be awesome if they did....

 

Anyway, going to read these tonight when I get home Poly. Your batreps are always fun to read!

Well just keep in mind these arent comic batreps, so dont be too discouraged. I did them more for tactical analysis and improvement. The turn around for comic batreps mean you wouldnt them til july!

[Tanhausen]

Nice reports and congrats on finally taking on some tournament: it certainly is a different way of playing.

 

Big learning you got there and the best is that you figure out the most significant by yourself :)

 

You already have some good advice, such as getting into CC ASAP when facing a Dragon: IMO, one of the toughest fliers.

 

As for your build, its a real shame you can't fit in the 6th RWBK and hence the second RWGL. Maybe you could take out the MM AB, which IMO has lost a lot in this edition.

 

Keep the reps going :)

[Polythemus]

last battle report posted. interestingly the dragon never targeted any bikers. It just target tactical troops which had no defense. I am actually considering dropping the RAS for the Nephillim. SInce the RAS (small biker group with anti vehicle fous) really only had an impact versus the necron barges. It also would have been able to at least hassle the flyers, though the model will be proxied until the rules for it are improved by GW. I might be able to take out the Quad gun using CML on alpha strike to protect the Nephillim.

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah Poly I think forgetting your PE versus C:CSM was a big part of your loss in that game. Also, forgive my ignorance as I haven't read C:DA yet, but doesn't Belial have all sorts of special rules when he deepstrikes? Seems like he was dying very quickly too, just bad rolls?

[Polythemus]

Rolling ones... it happens. Belial is pretty good hes got a 4++ can deepstrike without his unit or self scattering, has twinlinking when he comes in, and rolls precision shots on a 5+. of course he makes termies troops, which is his main selling point, thats ok as far as special rules go. I agree, with better tactical decision making and not forgetting PE (which is hard since its a rule i never get to use regularly) i could have made the game a lot closer. Plaugue marines are tough to kill, esp with FNP, i can understand why ppl use them so much. Thanks for checking it out tanith!

 

And tan, i am looking forward to the report of your GT experience.

[Giga]

Heh, that's some tough luck in the 3rd battle. His list was pretty damn rough for you, even if the guy hadn't been a dick, and the deployment really made it easier for him to turtle up.

 

As far as rule queries go, I feel you're not obliged to give everyone a rundown of every single special rule in your army unless they ask about it or it's so crucial it needs to be explained. For example, you don't need to go out of your way to explain to the opponent your termies get twin-linked weapons after deep striking and have split fire, he should know that. But if he asks if they got any special rules, you be a good sportsman and tell him.

 

Likewise, you can cut corners with the rules and *forget* stuff that doesn't benefit you. Like with power field generators, there's no reason why you should specifically explain to your opponent it gives his models a 4++ as well, just tell him "it gives the HQ and units around him a 4++" and most opponents will assume it stands for friendly units. Paying premium points so you can give your opponents a 4++ save is a stupid rule anyway. ;]

 

Depending on your outlook, you can take this way further, and if the opponent is an annoying bastard I don't see a reason why you shouldn't. Your opponent doesn't remind you you need to take an unfavorable morale test after he shot at you? Don't take it. Your opponent forgets your objective is booby-trapped? You *forget* about it too. Your opponent forgets his warlord trait gives him furious charge in your deployment zone? Screw him, he should remember stuff like that.

 

On the whole, your willingness to enforce/explain rules that help your opponent is wholly dependent on your good will. So when the guy acts like an ass, feel free to rob him. ;]

[Tanhausen]

Nice repping again, though you can feel you were tired/unhappy ;)

 

Agreed with Giga: you don't have to do a run down.

 

In tournament usually I simply ask for the opponents list, read through it quickly trying to identify scoring units, CC monsters and AP2 threats (I'm a terminator guy).

 

If I have questions, it usually like "you paid for the -6UM range on the Venoms for your Dark Eldar, right? yeah, see it here, thanks"

 

Then I hand mine over and since its usually pretty short, people don't have many questions.

 

A VERY VERY VERY important thing: when the opponent finishes deploying, I pick up his list AGAIN and run down to identify where is what and how. I ask him to put a significant model (melta, plasma, whatever) on top of the transports so "we don't get confused about what its carrying"...yeah right, like I'd get confused ;)

 

And during the game (usually only the first 2 turns) before I move anything, its not uncommon that I do ANOTHER rundown of what is in each transport/unit/whatever. Doesn't have to be down to the detail...just checking the major threats.

 

This sounds lengthy but it takes like 20 secs.

 

Regardind the scouts and ruins and whatnot...I spend 1 min prior to deploying making POSITIVE about what cover saves each element provides, LOS, "if I put a model here, can you shoot from there?" and so.

 

It prevents (although doesnt stop) turn 5 discussions.

 

Anyhow, congrats again on the tournament, thanks for sharing and I promise I'll try to post reps about my GT...but don't expect good results hehe

[Polythemus]

Good points giga and tan. I appreciate your perspectives on these things. Based on my display of rules knowledge in these batreps, i think its pretty clear that the opponent would be pretty lucky if i remember my own rules let alone his.

 

Giga - i can certainly understand the play to win concept. I think for my own application i would really reserve the extreme stuff for players that seemed to be going out of their way to cause controversy which is pretty much what your saying anyway. In the case of my opponent in game three, i think we were both tired and this made both of our fuses a little shorter, and on my end maybe a bit more aloof in my demeanor. The spirit of the game just felt different than the two games before it. On the whole i cant fault him too much except for the whole line line of sight thing with the building in turn 5. In a tournament everyone wants to win.

 

Tan - thats a great piece of advice. Everytime i exchanged lists i just looked it over the opposition list once before the battle, but clearly it would be better to actually hang on to the list until the end of the game in order to check it over anytime there was some confusion.

[Giga]

One thing you'll want to practice for tournaments is observing ego and being able to keep yourself detached emotionally. As you can see, playing 3 "serious" battles in a row, over the course of one day, can be a grueling experience, and can make you miserable if you don't perform as well as you hoped you would.

 

Maintaining your cool is doubly important if you want to become a good tournament player (striving to become a consistent winner in any competitive game is a healthy, good, and honorable goal and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!), as if you keep winning you'll keep getting stronger opponents, so being able to remain fresh and clear-minded is not only crucial to your own game, it'll also give you an edge over opponents who don't have this mental endurance.

 

Anyway, this might be off-topic, but if you find you're into tournaments and that you like the entire competitive play, you might wanna google: David Sirlin - Becoming the Champion

 

It's a really, really good book + it can be read for free on his website. Hope you check it out.

[Polythemus]

Thx for the advice giga, when school slows down might take a look.

[Tanhausen]

One thing you'll want to practice for tournaments is observing ego and being able to keep yourself detached emotionally. As you can see, playing 3 "serious" battles in a row, over the course of one day, can be a grueling experience, and can make you miserable if you don't perform as well as you hoped you would.

 

 

Each of us have our little "jedi" tricks. You go for the ego control...I force myself to remind me its just a game, I'm here for the fun (and the win, obviously) and that however the game goes, I WANT TO ENJOY. Taking into account the effort for time, money and all that...I'd feel stupid if I ended up having a bad time.

 

@ Polythemus

 

Its not so much about control (just a tiiiiiiiiny bit): IME, most tournaments players try a jab when they first meet you...they test their grounds.

 

If you just let it go/don't even see...they will usually take another step. And then another.

 

Till you end up in the end of turn 2, feeling abused and cornered.

 

Once I realized being nice and so was ok...but not ALWAYS.

 

So it usually pays off to be "profesional", set properly the grounds BEFORE A SINGLE DICE IS ROLLED and basically set the implicit contract of "lets not do any bulls**t".

 

Check swiftly the opponents list, make questions, ask for clarifications upon items/squads that might specifically hurt you... check the deployed units... and basically keep it simple :)

 

Questions like:

 

- What AP2 are you carrying? Assault or heavy? Pie plate or blast?

- AP2 in CC?

- Special overwatch or hit and run units?

- Special covers/obscured/cover ignoring?

- Special moves/charges? (pay A LOT of atention to cavalry and beasts!!)

 

Hope it helps!

[Giga]

Quote

Each of us have our little "jedi" tricks. You go for the ego control...I force myself to remind me its just a game, I'm here for the fun (and the win, obviously) and that however the game goes, I WANT TO ENJOY. Taking into account the effort for time, money and all that...I'd feel stupid if I ended up having a bad time.

It's not ego control. Observing ego is the ability to be detached from the situation yet remain fully aware of everything that's happening. Basically, it means intelligently seeing and analyzing whatever you're currently doing, rather than just going on autopilot. Whenever you screw up in anything and then later realize how dumb of a mistake that was and you wonder: "holy crap what was I thinking why did I do that" that's because your observing ego wasn't working at the time, which caused you to miss the obvious.

 

Reminding yourself that it's "just a game" and that you're "supposed to have fun" is a cop out + it's unrealistic. First off, it's in human nature to desire victory and to feel miserable when victory is denied and no matter how much you tell yourself you should enjoy whatever happens it's not how human nature works. And second, if you've spent so much money, time, and energy buying an army, getting it painted, learning the rules, brainstorming lists, reading tacticas, etc. and then paid money and maybe traveled to attend a tournament, it's obvious you're passionate enough about it's not "just a game" for you.

 

Damn, I need to write an article about this on my blog.

[Tanhausen]

This is not the original topic, but if Polythemus is ok with it, I'd like to comment.

 

First of all, bear in mind English is not my first language. When refering to ego control, TBH it sounds exact the same as ego observation. Finesse involved in the shades of the meaning? OK, so be it...not my intention to say either "jedi trick" is better or worse. Whatever works for someone is cool for me.

 

Second, I don't have a clue what cop out + unrealistic means. (I know what unrealistic means, but not cop out).

 

When I say I'm in this for fun...wether you believe me or not isn't really the point (sounds harder written than intended, but can't word it another way).

 

I spend my cash, invest my time, burn my eyes and brain trying to understand what the given set of rules means...and when I go for a tournament game, its all about having a pleasant day doing something I like...in a competitive enviroment.

 

Do I want to win? Duh...its a game where one loses and the other wins, thats why you have objectives and all that.

 

Is that the most important thing to me? Not even close.

 

I toned down quite a bit my tournament rounds, after attending like 30 tournaments in 2011. Last year was like 12 and this so far is going to be my 3rd tournament in 2013.

 

For months, result was the most important thing and without being nasty, I would fight nail and tooth every single action.

 

Now...seeing people I usually don't see that much, having people from all over the country go out of their way at the venue and stop you to say hi and ask how's everything going...

 

Just to give a few examples from my last GT (January, 80 players, key event for the Spanish ETC composition):

 

- Game 1 vs Chaos (double dragon Typhus zombie build), the guy had a shaky grasp on the rules, a couple unfinished models (painted is a DQ requirement) and was really nervous. He seemed a nice guy, so I basically overlooked situations which could have gotten him banned from the tournament and even during the game, kept reminding him that powerweapons in 6th didn't mean invul saves for his obliterators.

 

- Game 2 vs SW (footlist, GH/LF spam), old buddies, no problem whatsoever.

 

- Game 3 vs SM (bike spam), the very first shot I throw (WW) baaaaarely hits the closest bike but not the base of the model. The oponent went beserk that I had to hit the base, not the model (he used cavalry WFH bases)... and he went on ranting for A LOT. So, in a show of good faith, I decided to let it go. He didn't attempt any other shenigans on me, but because I kept constant tabs on him.

 

On hindsight, he didn't deserve the benefit of doubt/being generous...but in the end, its about how much I enjoyed the game and whatever I had didn I wouldn't have enjoyed the game vs that opponent.

 

Anyhow, turned out longer than intended.

 

Sorry for the rant ;)

[Giga]

Heh, I prolly explained it badly. Anyway, observing ego is basically being able to see the current moment from what is an almost third person perspective. I hope that makes sense.

 

S: (v) opt out, cop out (choose not to do something, as out of fear of failing) "She copped out when she was supposed to get into the hang glider"

 

Basically, cultivating the "I don't care about loosing, I'm just having fun" mentality is a cop out in that it distances you from your loss and therefore stops you from truly learning from it.

[Tanhausen]

 

Basically, cultivating the "I don't care about loosing, I'm just having fun" mentality is a cop out in that it distances you from your loss and therefore stops you from truly learning from it.

 

I wouldn't be as bold as to say that is always true...or untrue.

 

I agree that many people say "just for fun" when they actually mean "can get bothered to learn from the mistakes I repeat, so I'll just play nice".

 

What I'm saying (here and in the previous posts) is that you don't need a Zen, Tsun Tzu, little-grashopper attitude to perform decently in a tournament.

 

Only writting from my experience, but I'd say tournament players are:

 

- 10% : hey, a tournament! These guys are the best of the best (which ins't necessarily true) so I'll just take a beating and smile.

 

- 10% : I play this ultra fluffy list because its what the fluff dictates and I fluffing like<-you're in the wrong place.This is a tournament!

 

- 70% : Experienced players, well rounded lists (sometimes with concessions to personal attachments) who will give the best they got although they usually don't stand a chance of top 10.

 

- 10% : Extremely competitive players, study intensely the current hype and change builds/codex depending on meta.

 

For me, performing decently is finishing in the 25-50% bracket...which I usually manage. I've done better (2nd in a 40 people tournament is my high, earning me Best General) but its not a norm.

 

Man do I end up writting walls today hehe

 

Learning? Sure.

 

Being objective? Yes. No, its not luck that you obliterate my terminators with an executioner.

 

Detaching yourself from the game? I think that takes away one of the most fun parts of the game...which is getting taken away by specific situations. Sure, you need a cool head not to fall for your opponent's traps and whatnot...

 

But, IMO, if you can't feel a surge when charging with 10 terminators into 50 guardsman...you're missing something REALLY cool :)

[Giga]

Well, for one I don't think you can be objective about having fun. Fun is a byproduct of an activity, not something you can really plan for or truly anticipate.

 

For example, if you go on a date with a chick you've only just met a couple evenings earlier, you're doing it because ultimately you want to have fun with her. However, if you two don't hit it off, if the atmosphere is stilted, if you pay for the drinks and the icecream and w/e but still don't get so much as a kiss, then you haven't really had fun there, in fact it probably sucked. If everything goes great, you two hit it off, the chick turns out to be a happy humorous person, and you end up making out like teenagers and arranging the next date, then you'll have a great fun experience.

 

Tournaments are like that. They're ripe with uncertainty, because you're either going to do well or you'll get hammered. You go in with an end goal in mind, and you have to work hard to achieve it. The enjoyment and the fun is derived from competition itself. From my own experience, nobody enjoys loosing, no matter how many times they say they're "just having fun and not caring". This is why I think it's a cop out, because more often than not it means the person cares deeply about the loss but doesn't have the balls to acknowledge it.

[Tanhausen]

Just gonna do a final post regarding this topic, don't really want to hikack the thread Polythemus put time into writting the reps...but feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to continue the "discussion" (in a positive way, as in sharing points of view).

 

I understand what you say. And for me, that's not a WAAC setup...its just that you go to tournaments to win. Period.

 

The way I (and many players in my area) see it is:

 

- Sure, we bring the toughest builds we can or the ones we feel most comfortable with (and none is a baby seal ready to get clubbed).

 

- I'm gonna put out THE VERY BEST I got to try and trick you, force into traps and tactically try to outmanouvre you: you can bet on that

 

- But the bottom line is...when we finish the game, we're gonna buy each other a lupulus juice (don't read kids :P ) and share the highlights of our game/tournament.

 

If when I finish a game I have the need to move away from my opponent and wish not to see him again (which has obviously happened), then I didn't have fun. Yeah, might have enjoyed the "techincal/mental" challange of beating you...but still didn't have fun.

 

An example:

 

Last year in this same GT, Belial + 5 terminators assaulted 6 different ork units in turn 2. Yes, you read right: 6 models assaulted 6 units. It was tactically sound (had to tie up his lootas and force his trucks back to his zone) but first and foremost...it was SOOO cool and fun to do it.

 

The opponent (a VERY experienced Ork player) couldn't believe...he actually asked if he could take pics of the assault and set it as his phone background!

 

Every single time we see each other, he shines and beams and comes over to remind me of that specific combat...which btw made him comit HUGE resources and put him off balance.

 

The result of the game? I lost because a gretchin killed 1 last RW bike.

 

Could I have planned that? Of course not.

 

Can I make the decision of having fun during my game and only feel aggravated if my opponent is a bad sport (don't care about his build, luck, rules knowledge...being a bad sport for me is cheating, yelling, being obnoxioius...)

 

Ya bet I can.

 

And that is exactly what I plan for this whole weeking: 4 games and 48h of having fun :)

 

PS. And I pretend to win!