1850 tournament: Game 3 v. Vulkan

[Polythemus]

Wow incredible feed back there, much appreciated and much to think about. Ill try to go through and provide some clarification if possible.

 

OK sweet a nice clear Sunday I can get some good analysis in! Starting at Game1:

So the opponent's CSM list seems too small--- I rewrote it in AB and am coming up on only 1748pts for that CSM list, even with Flakk missiles added to the Havocs and 2 PG to the Nurglebikes... so I guess there's some wargear that didn't kick in to play or was worth remembering.

this might be rememdied. I took a picture of the the guys list, so ill upload that if i can, it was two pages and only the havocs were on page 2 so...

 

However, here are the pre-game thoughts I would have been thinking:

Opponent List Analysis:

 

• Major Threats to Your List
  • Heldrake kill MEQ, Avg ~6 models per turn (Vector+Flamer) from T2+ (meaning 6x4-6 turns = 24-36 kills, but only 8-12 targets maximum)
  • JuggerLord will kill TEQ, even with SS
  • Plays The Relic amazingly, because Juggerlord can clear that Relic and prevent you from grabbing it early (if ever).
• Enemy Weaknesses
  • Very low long-range shooting
  • Scoring Units are slow (although dude got majorly lucky rolling the 'Infiltrate' warlord trait)

So observing the above points, there are a few things that can be done to mitigate his advantages and capitalize on his weaknesses. Here is what I would recommend:

• Go second. In this game absolutely you should have gone 2nd, and here is why: +He has little long range shooting so you won't take much damage +You get to see his deployment +You can counter-deploy +He cannot counter-deploy on you +You see his first turn of movement (allowing him to get 'out of position') +You can DWA on Turn2 so that actually you get 2 turns of watching him get 'out of position' +You get to have the last actions before Game End (Contesting Objs, killing Relic holder)
• Use DWA to arrive on Turn2 (even if forced to go first). This allows plenty of time for the game to shape itself, and also you can choose 'weak spots' where there is no AP2 nearby.
• Use Scout in this instance to Outflank both bike Units. This allows multiple avenues of approach and supports living longer and if going second, will allow you to avoid his Heldrake's location as best as possible.

Cant really disagree with anything here. The only thing i will say is that TO had ruled dwa was not exempt from reserves limits, and this effected the scouting/outflanking abilities of the bikes as well since i was limited with what could go in reserve. But the going second component with regard to ranged shooting and placement of the devs makes plenty of sense.

 

For your Turn1, your DWA was far too aggressive, but you recognized it and so have other commentors in this thread so moving on...lol. Since you can count on the Heldrake eventually clearing your MEQ from the table, keeping your TEQ alive should have been top priority. Also, your backfield deployment was not optimal-- the only shooting threat to your Tacs+Devs was the Heldrake and some Havoc MLs. If you had gone second you could have deployed out of range of the Havocs, and since the Heldrake Ignores Cover you should have gone with full-spread formations instead of clumping up to be in the cover like you did. Also, deploying along edges of the table will reduce or eliminate taking Vector Stike damage.

Additionally, you had a multi-level ruin in your DZ, you should always put half of a Dev on bottom floor and half on top floor to mitigate Heldrake hits-- you should space them on floors and by distance, so that the first attack they take kills 3 but there should be 1 on top floor and 1 on bottom floor remaining, so that next turn he can only take 1 more hit. And as I mentioned the Tacticals should have been maximum-spread along your back-edge so that they cannot be Vector Striked and will only take 4 Heldrake flamer hits. The split-floor deployment comboed with full-spread deployment together meant it would have taken 6 turns for the Heldrake to kill all your Tacticals and Devs.

 

Again good logic and lesson here.

 

As far as the actual mission, I feel bad because I didn't know the missions were going to be Adepticon-style when we were workshopping your list. Knowing that every mission is going to be dual-objective absolutely means list writing has to be drastically changed. For example, you never get any relief by saying "well at least my list plays Kill Points really well" because all the missions are double-tier. I would have certainly advocated a few changes in light of that.

honestly, they decideed this the day of, and the intricacies of multimission versus single mission list writing are not something i have enough of a sophisticatiion level to differentiate. At first i thought the missions were worth different amounts (bao-style) but of course this was not the case.

 

As far as actually winning this Mission: because the tourny was pre-FAQ, your DWA didn't count towards Reserve limit so I would have only deployed 2 Tacs and the Devs. Such a bare-bones deployment (coupled with going 2nd) would have looked super-enticing to the Juggerlord and Nurglebikes, they would have raced fowards to clear you out--- however, those units are "already dead" (ie living on borrowed time), because Heldrake will get them. However, your opponent probably won't be thinking that way and instead runs everything forward out of position. He has 4 scoring Units and there are 4 Objectives, so that means he'll likely leave his backfield on the empty side--- then I would have DWA on Turn 2 but do it in HIS backfield, so that now his Havocs and Cultists are unprotected. You can claim HIS backfield objective, then use Bikes to Outflank, deal damage and go for an endgame contesting. That way you'll end up with a Tie straight down the middle-- He'll have Relic, you'll have Objectives, you both have Linebreaker and neither will have Warlord-- you would win off First Blood by using Belials' HF+SB unit to kill the Cultists.

 

Does the above paragraph work well? No, but its the best thing I can think of. The CSM player has plenty of AP2, but it is all short-ranged. Also, Heldrake is just such a punk haha. It would definitely boil down to execution, and how experienced or inexperienced your opponent is.

i think my naivete with the experience and limited exposure to other armies and the helldrake specifically, was a major failing here. The way that you are thinking about this is going to take me some time to master, but it basically sounds like your either advocating for baiting with the tacts and moving them towards the relic, or just leaving them at the back line. The strat i was going to employ was that one termie squad would pass the relic off to a tact squad, but of course that strategy relies on them being alive at the end game which was never going to happen.

[jeremy1391]

Your list looks fun not super competitive or jerky

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Game 2! This time the matchup versus Necrons is looking pretty good actually, though that Necron List comes out at 1685pts--- but if you add Whip Coils to all Wraiths and ResOrb+SemiWeave to the Warlord then you get 1850pts so I'm fairly certain he had those items. Almost completely irrelevant gear to the way the game played out, so that's probably why you didn't notice it.

• Opponent List
  • AnniBarges provide plenty of dakka at 24" but Scythes represent the only long-range shooting (still 24" but mobile)
  • Scythes provide perfect mobility for late-game scoring/contesting
  • Warscythe Lord AP1 melee, Wraiths have Rending (but Str8 DW melee is more than a match due to ID)
  • Lots of Str7 shooting nullifies T5 on bikes

Honestly as I said before, this matchup is far in your favor since he is relying on dakka to kill everything, but the bottom line is you'll be getting Armor Saves and FnP versus everything. Overall I'd say this Necron list feels slightly underpowered in general, probably since its a local tournament. I'd say underpowered because Zahndrekh+Immortals isn't doing much for him here, he could have taken 2 more Scythes for those points. Funny though, his list would literally stare at a Land Raider with no recourse...only thing he'd have would be Warscythe or Gauss from the Immortals, both easily mititgated.

 

As far as playing the match Strategically I feel you did much much better here Polythemus--- Game 1 was a tough nut for multiple reasons, but Game 2 plays to 3 strengths--- Emperor's Will is good for you, Kill Points is good for terminators, and you can easily out-melee your Opponent. I'm super-bummed you actually didn't win here because a lot of things were in your favor, to include your Strategy and Tactics. I have a lot less advice for Game 2 because I feel you played it correctly.

 

That said, your deployment could have been tweaked. Knowing that AnniBarges are only 24" range means you could have deployed 36" away to completely deny taking any Damage on Turn1. You had plenty of boardroom to deploy out of range, then later in game run-up to your Objective. Also, he had no Blast weapons at all so there was no reason at all to deploy together in a tighter clump in order to provide mutually supporting positions.

 

An aside thought: were you guys playing the buildings as "Intact"?  The rules are really really simply but I find even when buildings are clearly intact most players will simply play them as Ruins instead, which I feel is sad for the game. Intact building rules do a lot to enhance the game flavor and in my local meta we use them all the time.

 

Anyhow, once the game began I feel you had plenty of pressure in all the right spots. One thing I might have done differently would be reallocating one unit of Terminators to protect home-base.

 

One idea does strike me, I might have considered DWA on Turn 2. There was slim to no chance he could table you before then, and DWA on T2 would mean the Termies and the Bikes will show up simultaneously (target saturation), and also once again would have allowed you to capitalize on going 2nd, allowing 2 turns of movement for the opponent to move out of position-- then when you drop in, you can go for the weak-spots and/or drop more directly onto his objective. It was a long slog to his objective from where you did drop in. I understand you may have been trying to land behind the building to avoid taking damage from AnniBarge dakka but I think you could have trusted your 2+/FnP to protect you. I would have dropped more aggressively with a capturing stance. Of course, it worked out for you since you bagged Zahndrekh and the Immortals but I still might have picked the other flank to attack.

 

As it stands, you fought this match out in a much more skilled fashion, so kudos there.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Game 3... Wow a really bad matchup. Look at all that AP1.... ouch. I don't even need to breakdown the major threats to your list, it's fairly obvious.

 

However, I do have some hard news for you Polythemus--- the opponent gave this game to you, had you only seen it. Examine the following points:

• Mission is Scouring+Purge simultaneously. So you get to place 3 Objectives and so does He.
• You can place 1 Obj 6" and 6" cornered, the other 6" and 6" other-cornered, and the last one centered and 6" from back edge. His list will NEVER make it your 3 Objs. So you will tie him on OBJs.
• In a long-range shootout, you have him toasted. The only thing he's got longer than 24" is the Thunderfire, which you can hide your Heavy Weapons from LOS behind two different apartment buildings. Your CMLs can cover the remaining deadzones since the Thunderfire doesn't mean squat against 2+/FnP
• He has 5 really flimsy Kill Points just waiting to be collected: Rhinos and Speeders... and the Speeders count for 2 each since 'Scouring'...
• His deployment was entirely defensive, there was no incentive at all towards going into that killzone...

You could have walked away from this mission as a cakewalk. He foward deployed all his easy KillPoints too, just waiting for your MLs, LC and CMLs to take them apart. All you had to do was put all 3 of your objectives is the super-far back, and shoot his Kill Points for the Win.

[Polythemus]

You speak hard, but true sir. What this tells me is that when it comes to tournament play, i was fairly naieve. Trading shots and casualties is not the way the game is won, hard thinking and understanding the scenario and objectives is. Going for some internal sense of purpose is not the way to asses your goals, careful analysis of your and the opponents units and abilities is. In short more critical thinking less playing. I thank you for your excellent analysis sir, and eveyone else who commented on these battle reports. Soon i will be able to play again and i relish the chance to put these lessons to good use.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Worth noting that your TO's ruling on DWA being subservient to Reserve limits has been proven right by the FAQ, so you'll have to play around that in future too.

 

Excellent batreps though, and yeah, CAG got it in one; those Rhinos and definitely those Speeders were asking for a krak missile. You live, you learn!