BCK's Thread of Stuff: Super Heavy

[DuskRaider]

Yes, the Teuton is right! He almost reminds me of Rutger Hauer from Blade Runner. The whole model has that feel to it, actually. Absolutely terrific. Edited July 28, 2018 by DuskRaider

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

If you're trying to do "come at me bro", I feel like there needs to be a bit of torso lean and chest puffing in it. I just happened to see the official plastic Eisenhorn mini and it has exactly what I'm talking about. You can see his shoulders pulled back a bit more than would occur in a normal walking pose and his entire body seems to be leaning forwards.

 

No, I'm trying to get away from the original pose which is very Come At Me Bro! because he's drawn his sword and is making a stand. I'm also not a huge fan of the official 32mm figure because he's leaning forward too far imo and I don't care for the face at all. 

 

 

Rotate te pistol hand, and either cut the under arm to bring it closer to the body, or bulk up the shoulder slightly

Bring the left arm forward a little?

 

That would give him a more striding forward pose

 

Most likely I will need to trim this part of his storm coat I've highlighted in red to get the arm to sit where I want it. 

 

 

That little section is blocking the right arm from being re-positioned how I want and would probably be the easiest fix.

 

A very interesting project! The younger version of Eisenhorn's face really resembles a younger Rutger Hauer, if you ask me.

 

I wouldn't go with a shotgun, as that doesn't seem particularly Eisenhorn-y to me. If you want to try something a bit more complicated, why not have the gun arm bent at the elbow -- I bet that would get rid of some of the sense of sweeping motion.

 

Anyway, I shall be watching this with interest!

 

Now that you mention it, he does resemble a younger Rutger Hauer! Nice catch. As for the shotgun, I might be remembering incorrectly, but I thought he made use of one (maybe a naval shotgun in particular?) in one of the original 3 books. 

 

Yes, the Teuton is right! He almost reminds me of Rutger Hauer from Blade Runner. The whole model has that feel to it, actually. Absolutely terrific.

 

Yeah, a heavy coat with a high collar... I can see the resemblance. 

 

[Subtle Discord]

If you're not keen on making major alterations to the pose to get the 'come at me' vibe, I'd suggest rotating the hands so the palms are facing up more, presenting a bit of an intentionally vulnerable pose; chest, neck, and wrists exposed, weapons not really at the ready... it's not going to get any easier than this, so go ahead, make your move...

 

Edit: The hairline is a better fit too. Definitely Rutger.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Subtle Discord

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

It's incredible what 20 minutes and a Dremel can do for a project, especially one that's a giant hunk of metal like this one. As it turns out, I didn't have to grind away that portion of his coat I highlighted in the above picture, but just some raised portions of the coat under the arm. 

 

 

There's a little gap at the top of the arm I will need to fill in, but this is much closer to what I was wanting. And the obligatory comparison pic:

 

[Bryan Blaire]

Guys, he wants to eliminate any "come at me" vibe.

 

I think that the alterations definitely help the striding and looking for a target that you seem to be going for, BCK.

[Krakendoomcool]

It must have been said a hundred times. Your green stuff work is looking pro. The hard stuff to get right, all the smooth stuff that will show up any mistakes. It's very impressive. I haven't made it through the 142 pages just yet. Have you done any tutorials on how you do it?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I did a write up on some sculpting tips a while ago for a friend and I thought I posted it here, but after doing some searching, it doesn't look like I did. While not directly a tutorial, I hope some of these tips gained from my experience are helpful. 

 

1) Use lots of lubricant on your sculpting tools. When I first got into using GS I tried using water and it was a bad time. I hated GS for years because of it and why it never occurred to me to use something else until that one day that I tried some canola oil from the kitchen I'll never know. I use cooking oil, but I've read of people using petroleum jelly or talcum powder, and the worst one: saliva. Do NOT lick your tools. I doubt you would, but I see it all on the time on the boards and people think because GS is non-toxic it's no big deal if you ingest a little now and then.

2) Find the tools that work best for you. Like a lot of people interested in getting into sculpting, I bought one of those big sets of dental sculpting tools and never cared for them at all. That one GW sculpting they used to sell? Useless. If you look around on the web you can find pics of the tools the actual pros use and the vast majority of them are handmade. For me, everything changed the day I tried clay shapers (I joked that it was like my mutant powers had awakened), but I've suggested them to people before and they had no better luck with sculpting after buying some than they previously did.

If you do get some, and I do highly suggest them, don't buy a whole pack of the mini-shapers. I did that way back when and only ended up using two of the five. Even now that I'm much better, I'll still give one of the other shapes a shot occasionally and they never work out. It also became quickly apparent that they were too small for a lot of the stuff I wanted to do and it would take forever to smooth out large areas. At the time, ordering the larger shapers online was insanely expensive (like $40 or more each) but the prices eventually came down to a reasonable amount. 

Here's a shot of my workhorses.



Size 2 flat chisel and taper point, size 0 flat chisel and taper point, and the single dental sculpting tool I use, and that's after I filed and sanded the tip down to something better to suit my needs; mostly making the edge thinner and more blade-like.

The left two do 98% of my sculpting work, and of those, the flat chisel does the majority of it. This is actually my second #2 because the first one started to crack after a few years of wear. The taper tip is almost exclusively used for making folds in cloth. The smaller two I only use for getting into small spaces or if I need a smaller edge for some kind of detail. The metal one I only use if I need to get a really hard edge on something that I can't get with the flat chisel, or using the thin blade edge for fine lines.

While the tips are made of rubber or silicone or something, they will stick to greenstuff. Not as bad as metal tools, but they're not immune to sticking. Again, lubricate your sculpting tools. Lots. Make it your mantra.

Also, if you have a real art supply store in your area (not Hobby Lobby or Michaels, but a place pros or serious college students would go), you can probably go pick up size 2s and size 0s in your area, and make sure to get the firm tips which should be black. The medium softness tips, which are grey, I experimented and didn't like them near as much as the firm but try things out and see what works best for you. 

3) Train yourself to look at whatever it is you want to sculpt and break them down into simple shapes, which is one of the essential lessons in drawing. When I first got into sculpting, the biggest mental hurdle was "OMG, how am I ever gonna do THAT?!" but a lot of it was not seeing the simple shapes in the finished work. Here's a few examples, starting with one of my marine scout figures.



The top pouches are rectangles with a stretched half-circle for the flap. I put one big blob of GS on his chest, shaped it into a rectangle, then used the edge of the flat chisel to divide it into four smaller rectangles. The flaps I actually shaped while the same GS was wet, but for beginners I would suggest waiting for the first layer to cure then do the flaps as a separate piece of GS. The knee pad is a rough circle with a dome shape, and I used a piece of thin brass rod to poke the holes in it. If you want a little button on the flap, get a .05 mechanical pencil and poke the tip into the GS, which also works for inset bolts or rivets.

Here's a conversion of soldier medic that looks a lot more complicated than it really is. 



Sculpting limbs is not all that difficult if they're going to be covered by armor and/or cloth. Press some GS on over the armature, get the proportions right with your fingers, then smooth it out.



The armor on the arm is very simple shapes if you really look at it. The upper arm piece was one blob of GS that I pressed into place around the arm, smoothed, used the chisel to divide it in two with the blade edge, then used the flat edge to create the raised edges of the armor. Forearm is the same - essentially a slightly tapered cylinder with a shallow cut down the front to match the other Vostroyan armor. His medicine bags are made as mentioned previously with the taper point to produce the folds.

 

4) Smoothing the Greenstuff. This was, hands down, the hardest thing for me to learn and the source of my greatest frustration with sculpting in the beginning. Clay shapers had the biggest impact on this, and really is what sent my GS skills and confidence skyrocketing. How I do it is to very gently use the flat side of the chisel (lotsa lube, say it with me) in long strokes to even out the surface. (Lotsa lube and strokes in the same sentence? I know, I know.) Think of it like a trowel smoothing out concrete, where a very light touch gliding across the surface is all you need to make it pretty. Here's a little graphic I made of the way I drag the chisel shaper over the GS to smooth it out. 

 

This is much, much easier said that done and it will take you some practice to get the feel for just the right amount of pressure to smooth out the surface and not alter the shape of what you're working on, but that's basically all there is to it. At first, it would take me forever because I'd get a smooth surface, but I'd be pressing too hard and flatten out what I was working on, so then I'd go back and re-shape the thing, and then I'd have to smooth it again, and then re-shape it, and... you get the idea. Not gonna lie, it will take some time.

5) Cloth. Simple version: put GS on, smooth, add folds and wrinkles.

We got the simple shapes and smoothing covered, so... folds and wrinkles. Enter the hero of the day, the taper point clay shaper. This is another one of those things that's going to be much easier said than done, but the explanation is quite simple: I stick the point into the GS where the crease or fold will originate, and then draw it across the GS in a fashion similar to using the side of a paintbrush for doing edge highlights. I vary the pressure and how much of the side of the shaper I press into the GS depending on what I'm going for. Learning how to do that is going to take some practice, but even more difficult (for me at least) with doing cloth is figuring out where to put the folds and how many to do. It's very easy to go overboard and ruin it with too many creases. I've had to re-do the cloth on some figures multiple times for this very reason.

I frequently gather up other minis that have cloth similar to what I'm wanting and keep them close for easy reference, or even use my own clothing as a reference. Look down at your shirt where the cloth bunches around the arm pits for example. I also google up cloth references frequently.

This guy?



I wanted his pants to look really baggy like the artwork that inspired it, and my first try with it wasn't spectacular, so I hunted around the internet to find some good pics of baggy pants for reference.

5) Engineering. An early problem I had with sculpting was trying to make something that either didn't have a solid foundation behind it, or the GS was too thick and it would go all over the place when I pressed in the tools for the effect I needed. That guy's pants above? I originally made his legs very skinny so I could put a thicker layer on top of it to sculpt the deeps folds needed for the baggy pants, but still have a solid foundation under it to work on top of. 



Here's another Vostroyan conversion I was doing where I was sculpting a fur hat like the one the medic above is wearing and made this as a foundation to then sculpt the fur on without deforming the whole hat shape. 



Learn from my previous mistakes and know that you need a solid foundation for anything needing deep detail like fur or cloth with heavy wrinkles and folds in it.

6) Don't rush. Like the lotsa lube mantra, your second mantra is 'don't rush'. Work on small areas, let it cure, then do some more. I've ruined so much work by trying to do sculpting on several parts of the figure at once and inevitably stick a finger in GS that was already sculpted but still wet and mash the detail into oblivion. If you're a maniac with a focus problem like me, you might have multiple figures you can work on at the same time. You might also make a little curing oven to speed up the GS curing time, which you can find all kinds of info on with a Google search. 

7) Working time. GS has a definite working window and you know when you're getting to the end of it when it starts getting spongy and bouncing back from your tools, not holding the detail. I've read stuff from some pros where they say they mix it up and let it sit for about 30 minutes before using it, but I personally prefer to get as much done as soon as I mix it up when it's not as sticky and is more pliable. Experiment and find what works best for you.

8) Finishing. I never thought of doing anything to the GS after it cured until I read a White Dwarf article from Chris Fitzpatrick years ago where it showed him doing a step-by-step of sculpting a figure for WHFB. He mentioned getting a really smooth finish and sharp edges by using a very sharp X-Acto, like brand new blade kind of sharp, holding it at a 90 degree angle to the surface and then gently scraping the surface to even it out. I do this, and I even use sandpaper of at least 600 grit to clean up something. If you don't get the finish you want in the sculpting phase, let it cure and see if you can scrape or sand it to what you want before you scrap it and try again.

9) Practice. Practice, practice, practice. Learn the feel of the GS. Learn what ratio of green to blue you like best. Learn to feel your tools and how much pressure you need for what you're wanting to do. It's not easy and it won't come fast. You don't see many greenstuff wizards on miniature forums for a reason, but it's also not as impossible as a lot of people believe. I know I will never be good enough to be a professional figure sculptor, but I wanted to get better and put forth the time and effort.

10) Experiment. Constantly be on the lookout for things you can use to make neat shapes in the GS, like the mechanical pencil I mentioned above. Also, if you don't already have one, get a tube making tool. It's a great way to get rid of your excess GS.

11) Research. Watch videos of sculptors if you can. Even if they're not telling you what they're doing, just watching how they use the tools to make impressions in the putty will be very useful. Look up other tutorials to see how other people do things, because we're all different.

12) The Critic. My internal critic is brutal and sometimes I'm amazed that I didn't give up on the sculpting years ago. Be prepared for your first attempts at this stuff to be bad. Really bad. It will be discouraging and frustrating, but if you keep at it, you will get better. Always push yourself to do bigger and better. Stagnation is death.

Any questions or comments, lemme know. 

[Krakendoomcool]

This is amazingly useful! I think I will be keeping my phone open on this page for the foreseeable future.

 

I can happily do what I call the Space Wolf essentials (hair, beards and fur) or Nurgle style bits. But they are all quite forgiving. I didn’t know how to make that leap to the smooth stuff.

 

I’m using my favourite metal tool out of a large set and lots of water.

 

I’m going to be checking out other tools soon (based on this) and using Oil immediately. These tips are SO helpful.

 

I’m going to have to practice and see how it goes. You’ve given me tons to work with. It’s very exciting!

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Water is terrible for tool lubrication and I think you'll see an immediate improvement in your sculpting with oil.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Left arm re-postioned now. Just need to do some greenstuffing to fill in a gap on the backside of the arm. 

 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Your sculpting skills are most enviable.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Thanks, Bjornwalker.

 

Alright, let's talk shotguns. First, just so I know I wasn't crazy and remembering wrong, I looked up when Eisenhorn first met Fischig on Hubris and went to the Sundome chasing after the first mention of the Pontius:

 

The speeder was a standard Imperial model, painted matt-brown and sporting the badges of the solar symbol and the chevrons and tail number of the local Arbites. Armoured, it turned heavily, the anti-grav straining to keep us aloft. There was a heavy bolter pintle-mounted forward of my seat. I glanced around and saw a locked rack of combat shotguns behind the rear seats. 

 

"Give me one of those!" I yelled above the slipstream and the choppy thrum of the turbo-fans. 

 

"What?"

 

"I need a weapon!"

 

Fischig nodded and keyed a security code into a pad built into his bulky control stick. The cage on the gun-rack popped open. 

 

"Take one!"

 

Aemos handed one over to me and I began loading shells. 

 

 

Second, let's have a look at some of the shotgun styles of the setting. 

 

 

At the top is your standard Astartes issue shotgun used by scouts. I've never liked that design or any of the slight variants of it. The huge, goofy rail on top is really awful. The second is a variant of an Arbites shotgun, and probably close to what Eisenhorn was using in that scene of the book. It's a better design and I like that it has a full stock but still not crazy about the very blocky front end. The third is a combat shotgun made on the Accatran forge world, which also supplies all the weapons for the Elysian drop troops, but this particular model is best known for being in the hands of traitor forces on Vraks. I like this design a lot better because it looks like something that would be tough as hell, and relatively cheap and easy to produce in the vast quantities needed. The only reason I didn't try to make a 52mm sized version of it is because I suck at scratch building and hard, sharp angles are the devil. 

 

So, I started making one based on a traditional pump-action shotgun and here's some in-progress pics next to the sheathed shotgun that comes with the Inquisitor Covenant figure. 

 

 

Based on the stock shape and what can be seen of the action on Covenant's shotgun, it looks like one of the Arbites shotguns above. Using it as a rough guide for scale, I also borrowed some things from the Winchester 1897 shotgun (the first widely successful pump-action), and some old ass shotgun my grandfather had with the deep curve on the butt of the stock that had a brass plate liner and bit into your shoulder painfully with every shot (though it was a side-by-side break action). The action area is still a bit rough, but I'm taking a break from working on it because it's way too hot in my room right now to be sitting under the lamps on my desk. When it's finished, the plan is to have it strapped to Eisenhorn's back. 

[DuskRaider]

Mmmm... trench gun. The 1897 is my dream shotgun, gotta love that slam fire!

 

I agree with you concerning the Astartes shotgun. You'd have to be a superhuman just so your wrist doesn't break:D I'd say if you could marry the action forward of the Elysian with a full stock like the Arbites, you'd have a nice piece there.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

No shotguns with detachable magazines? No combi-shotguns? We have them in M3- see the M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System- haven't the AdMech recovered its STC template by M42?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I would have loved to give him something more like the USAS-12, AA-12, Saiga-12, CAWS, or the Jackhammer, but the problem with a lot of those shotguns is that when scaled down they don't really look like shotguns anymore, but just another beefy assault rifle. I saw a 40k scale auto shotgun from a 3rd party manufacturer I can't remember right now, and it looked like a variant of a bolter trying to dodge IP issues. The traditional look of the pump-action is universally well known and instantly recognizable for what it is. 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I saw a 40k scale auto shotgun from a 3rd party manufacturer I can't remember right now, and it looked like a variant of a bolter trying to dodge IP issues.

Pity. I'd like to see it. With Frag-12 rounds (shotgun-launched grenades), it would've WORKED like a real-world bolter, in addition to looking like one.

The traditional look of the pump-action is universally well known and instantly recognizable for what it is.

How about the KAC Masterkey?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Trucking along. 

 

 

I finally decided to remove the camera from his right shoulder and smooth out the pad, and the left shoulder got a little Dremel bite when it skipped while removing material under the arm so I had to cover that with a thin layer of GS. Cleaned up the front of his coat over the left leg, and added a book from my dwindling supply of GK bits. Not pictured is the metal blade I've started on for his left hand. 

 

And speaking of GK bits, what do you guys think of this tilt shield on him?

 

 

Weird that it almost seems too big on such a larger figure. 

[Dantay VI]

Book and GS stuff looks good.

 

Not a massive fan of the shield though

[Jackalwolf]

Really appreciate your sculpting guide. For anyone that wants to save this page too try pocket, that app is gold to save valuable hobby resources.

[DuskRaider]

I actually like the shield, it could be something of a memento mori for himself and his enemy. Perhaps make it a heraldic shield as well behind the skull.

[Dantay VI]

Or as a testimony piece to the marine who saves him from the cave-in at the beginning of the first novel when hunting alpha plus psykers

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Book and GS stuff looks good.

 

Not a massive fan of the shield though

 

Thanks. For the shield, I wish I still had one from the power armor GK box instead of just the TDA ones. Maybe if I slimmed it down a little?

 

Really appreciate your sculpting guide. For anyone that wants to save this page too try pocket, that app is gold to save valuable hobby resources.

 

Happy to help! I wanted to try making some video tutorials a few years back when a friend was going to let me use his nice digital camera, but he had to sell it. I wonder if my phone would be up to the task. 

 

I actually like the shield, it could be something of a memento mori for himself and his enemy. Perhaps make it a heraldic shield as well behind the skull.

 

One of the things I like most about the Eisenhorn character is that he's not like your typical Inquisitor, working clandestinely and through agents to keep his identity hidden until the last moment so as not to scare off the prey he's hunting, but God-Emperor help you when either you discover who he his or he's decided it's time to reveal himself. That's the feel I wanted from the figure - this relentless, remorseless force of the Emperor's highest authority, and the memento mori idea is very much in line with what I had in mind for the shield.  

 

Or as a testimony piece to the marine who saves him from the cave-in at the beginning of the first novel when hunting alpha plus psykers

 

I like that idea, but in my head this figure is an Eisenhorn from before the first book. 

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Progress continues with the completion of the sword, sculpting a new holster for this pistol because the original one for the figure is too small for the gun (though I already don't like it and will probably re-sculpt it), and I cut some of the scroll tubes (or reliquaries or whatever) from the staff piece to try out in place of the book. 

 

[Quixus]

Isn't Barbarisater a single edged curved sword?

[Dantay VI]

This is before Barbarisitar I think.