Scars Episode XI Updated 16/10 (Spoilers)

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Also, the Ullanor exchange makes me want to see a DG series all the more.

 

I bet the White Scars find Revuel Arvida on Prospero.  He would tell the story of his run in with the World Eaters.

Yup. This is essentially the only thing I can see that will change the Khan's mind. If he sees just Prospero, he will know that Russ took the wood to Magnus, but not why. When he meets Arvida (who wouldn't really have any way to get off planet anyways, if he did indeed arrive before the Khan will get there), and assuming Arvida will have found out something about why Prospero was destroyed, and that will decide who the Khan sides with.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Also, the Ullanor exchange makes me want to see a DG series all the more.

 

I bet the White Scars find Revuel Arvida on Prospero.  He would tell the story of his run in with the World Eaters.

Yup. This is essentially the only thing I can see that will change the Khan's mind. If he sees just Prospero, he will know that Russ took the wood to Magnus, but not why. When he meets Arvida (who wouldn't really have any way to get off planet anyways, if he did indeed arrive before the Khan will get there), and assuming Arvida will have found out something about why Prospero was destroyed, and that will decide who the Khan sides with.

And hopefully put a end to this part of the 1k Sons---> Blood Raven gobleDgooook.  I have Arvida as one of my * Founding GK GM's so I hope he hitches a ride with the WS's back to terra to hook up with Garro.

[Kol Saresk]

But what if Arvida does become the first Blood Raven.........

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

Also, the Ullanor exchange makes me want to see a DG series all the more.

 

I bet the White Scars find Revuel Arvida on Prospero.  He would tell the story of his run in with the World Eaters.

Yup. This is essentially the only thing I can see that will change the Khan's mind. If he sees just Prospero, he will know that Russ took the wood to Magnus, but not why. When he meets Arvida (who wouldn't really have any way to get off planet anyways, if he did indeed arrive before the Khan will get there), and assuming Arvida will have found out something about why Prospero was destroyed, and that will decide who the Khan sides with.

And hopefully put a end to this part of the 1k Sons---> Blood Raven gobleDgooook.  I have Arvida as one of my * Founding GK GM's so I hope he hitches a ride with the WS's back to terra to hook up with Garro.

No, that stuff is still feasible. 

[Lord Ragnarok]

I presume nothing was told about Russ?

No SW interaction  in VII.  Spoilers from VII and Battle of the Fang.

There was a comment by the White Scars (don't remember who) which stated that

the Wolves would never admit they believe the source of their power comes from

the well of the warp. This coincides with the belief system Chris established in

"Batte of the Fang"

 

[Greyall]

Whether we like it or not, the Wolves have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about Nikea. Their homeworld, its peoples, their culture and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

[Kol Saresk]

Whether we like it or not, the Wolves have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about Nikea. Their homeworld, its peoples, their culture and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

Oh, no doubt about it. They thought they were in the right. But so have more than a few people who turned out to be wrong.

[Wade Garrett]

Whether we like it or not, the WORD BEARERS have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about THE WHOLE GOD EMPEROR THING. Their homeworld, its peoples, their culture and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

Whether we like it or not, the NIGHT LORDS have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about TORTUTING PEOPLE TO DEATH FOR A MOMENT'S AMUSEMENT. Their homeworld, its peoples, their culture and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

 

Whether we like it or not, the WORLD EATERS have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about STICKING CRAZY MACHINES IN THEIR OWN BRAINS. Their PRIMARCH, HIS BAT CRAP INSANTIY, and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

So on, so forth, etc.

[GhostMalone]

Whether we like it or not, the ULTRAMARINES have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites LIKE HAVING CALTH R@$&D. Their PRIMARCH, HIS GIRLY BLONDE FACE, and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

:D

[Scribe]

Yeah, lets not give the wolves a pass here. Their ignorance may be rooted in their culture, but its still ignorance. I quite like the fact that the White Scars take a completely different perspective and own up to where their powers are coming from if I understand the spoilers correctly.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

From what I gather here is that Jagatai is looking for a descision. I hope he finds one soon. At least the Kahn taught Russ that he is not his brothers keeper. Bjorn will remember this and so will I. Now I got a couple of jibes to use against any WS opponents.

[grand_master85]

I have to say, I really enjoyed the conversation at Ullanor the most, and everyone seems to think this may be setting up a confrontation at Terra, but...I can't help seeing the main antagonist of the Librarius perhaps awaiting the Khan at his destination. We still have 5 chapters to go, so anything could happen :-)

[High MarshalGR]

From what I gather here is that Jagatai is looking for a descision. I hope he finds one soon. At least the Kahn taught Russ that he is not his brothers keeper. Bjorn will remember this and so will I. Now I got a couple of jibes to use against any WS opponents.

 

Khan is not his Legion's father unlike Russ, and his Legion is not as well-versed as SW in many types of warfare. Russ disliked the Warp instinctively me thinks. He deep within knows there is something alive inside it which controls and affects objects from the material realm. What I don't know is if he has seen something during his lifetime that presents what the Immaterium contains. As far as the Warp goes, Magnus proved how awesome it is to accept the offer of an unknown entity of the Warp to help (Tzeencht), and we can read the results at Collected Visions. And I won't give a pass to Russ, but he earned more of my respect throughout the Heresy than some other Primarchs did.

 

As far as Roboute Guilliman goes, the BL forsaked him to pwnage the moment they published a Codex Astartes. There is no redemption for him.

[Greyall]

Whether we like it or not, the WORD BEARERS have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about THE WHOLE GOD EMPEROR THING. Their homeworld, its peoples, their culture and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

Whether we like it or not, the NIGHT LORDS have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about TORTUTING PEOPLE TO DEATH FOR A MOMENT'S AMUSEMENT. Their homeworld, its peoples, their culture and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

 

Whether we like it or not, the WORLD EATERS have a very good 'excuse' for being hypocrites about STICKING CRAZY MACHINES IN THEIR OWN BRAINS. Their PRIMARCH, HIS BAT CRAP INSANTIY, and traditions are incredibly rooted into the Legion, if we take into account how 'savage' and almost primitive they are.

 

So on, so forth, etc.

 

 

You make it easy on me, Garrett, you think I didn't account for the fact that many Legions were brought up in backwater worlds? The difference is, all the Legions you chose absorbed their homeworld's very worse traditions and cultural traits.

 

Colchisian society runs on religious fanaticism and the Bearers fully embraced it with no qualms whatsoever.

 

Nostraman society is based on crime. 'Nuff said.

 

The World Eaters are a terrible example, which you chose purely because of their violent nature, since you weren't in the mood to change a single word from my sentence. They have no homeworld and their recruits' birthplace plays no part in the Legion's demeanour. The whole thing is run like a gladiator team with pretty toys, regardless of ethnicity.

 

I'll give you another example of bad social integration into the Legion: Horus let the Cthonian gang culture almost untouched, resulting in some pretty psychotic characters being hidden just under a thin veil. But gangs aren't the same as tribes. Gangs are based on marauding or living on the fringes of a main society and very rarely leave that way of living.

 

The Fenrisians, on the other hand, like the Medusans, are true tribal societies. They coexist in a balance of power and survival that relies on having more than one group. They fight among themselves, sometimes they wipe each other and certainly commit some horrible acts, but Fenrisians live that way naturally, they don't do it out of being outcasts or being permanently at war.

 

The Wolves, the Scars and the Iron Hands deserve a lot of credit for integrating their social context in a sustainable manner. No psychos, no overkill and a healthy absorption of traditions and customs. The trick is, they could easily have turned to the worst practices of each of their homeworlds, but they put the workings of their Legion first and foremost and that goal trimmed the worst parts of a savage core.

 

Like Scribe of Khorne said, it's ignorance and it's not to be overlooked, even if the Wolves are very responsible at using psyker powers. It's a very dangerous game because the best intentioned psyker may one day choose to channel the full spirit of Fenris and end up growing a tail, two faces and a desire to go for the False Emperor's throat. But it's understandable that a Legion so successful at being a part of their people slips into its primitive roots from time to time. Say what you will, summoning the thunder of Fenris isn't the same as skinning a body to serve as an example.

 

And again, like Scribe of Khorne also mentioned, the Scars take the prize in this matter since they don't shy from understanding their powers, to the point that they're probably the most enlightened Legion, Warp-wise.

[High MarshalGR]

The Prometheans are another good example Greyall, but their uprising aided their Legion in a positive manner. However, they kept the Promethean cult, were the only SM Legion whose Astartes pass time with "mortals" and their families etc.

[Greyall]

Exactly, forgot about my dear Sallies. Thanks, Marshal.

 

@Jaspcat: The events that led to Nikea were orchestrated by the Dark Four, so yes, it's very natural that the Ultramarines and the Dark Angels now find justifiable to break said edict, since it was a ploy to remove the Astartes' best weapons against daemons.

[hopkins]

regarding the cover art, has someone got a link to the full version?

did anyone figure out what fleet are in the background when the scars are having that heated scuffle on deck

 

 

just wonder how this fits in, now that we're 7 episodes deep, supposedly free of the alpha legion blockade on chondax, and heading to prospero

 

 

[DuskRaider]

Cover art doesn't always fit in with a point in the plot. Look at Flight of the Eisenstein... cover art never even happened in the book.

[Kol Saresk]

But then we get Know No Fear where Dan Abnett made it a point for Guilliman to punch off someone's head.

[Augustus]

Iron hands have a psychotic dreadnought who admits he was destined for prison till the legion came calling.

 

Fenris' culture has their own reavers who prey on people. Fenris culture is based on raiding which is taking something you did not earn. If you say they earned it through warfare and strength at arms then so too can the Night Lords say that.

 

Viking culture preyed on the weak and defenseless. They searched for fattest easiest target plunderered, beat, pillaged and ran away before any true defense could be mustered. Much like theives.

 

Wolves. Hunt in packs preying on the weakest single target. Much like thieves.

 

I don't know what good traits the wolves absorbed from Fenrisians? Hard working? Can't really say honorable? The Space Wolves are honorable. I don't see it coming from the Fenrisians though.

Loyalty to the pack? I can see that. Much like how the Cythonians and night lords have gang loyalty (in some form)

 

Iron hands despise weakness in the flesh. That trait was there in the heresy I wonder how much that is rooted in the planets populace or caused by Manus?

 

Can we forgive the Dark Angels for having a knight culture that's sole duty was to protect Caliban and seeing the imperium as basically destroying it thereby rebelling?

 

While you have some fair points, Greyall, I think it is maybe a mistake to basically to give the wolves a free pass because that's how Fenris culture is (which the wolves, who are honorable fight for the little guy, do not emulate.

[High MarshalGR]

 

While you have some fair points, Greyall, I think it is maybe a mistake to basically to give the wolves a free pass because that's how Fenris culture is (which the wolves, who are honorable fight for the little guy, do not emulate.

 

He didn't try to give the Space Wolves a free pass Augustus. He merely examined analytically what percentage of fault can we charge them with. This is what I understood anyway. How much responsible are the SW? That's the issure I think Greyall focused on.

[Greyall]

I'm not giving them a free pass, I said that it's very dangerous.

 

But it shows that they truly believe their powers come from Fenris. That they act hypocrite without truly being so, because they do see their psykers as different

 

Am I also not saying there's such a thing as a pretty tribal culture. I'm saying a tribal culture such as Medusa's or Fenris' can and does produce some nice values/culture/arts/advancements, unlike a gang-based one.

 

Of course said cultures are still violent with horrifying habits. But hey, an Ultramarine points his gun at Cyrene in the opening stages of The First Heretic. That's civilization. Not at all like those meany vikings in space.

[Wade Garrett]

All I am saying is that to excuse the Wolves failings because "It's like, their ethnic folkways, man" is pretty silly given because that's every. Single. Legion. And you cannot claim Nuceria had no impact on the World Eaters, even if they don't recruit from there:

 

It gave them the Butcher's Nails, superstitions about abandoned weapons, the whole "spit on the floor when near psykers" thing, the Triumph Rope, etc. Those are all Angron's cultural traditions, and if we're going to forgive the Wolves sin's on that basis, what makes the Twelfth any different?

 

As for the warriors of Cthonia and Nostromo being gangs being based on marauding and producing nothing of value to society, this is different from the Fenrisian Sea Reavers jumping off their long boats to pillage each other how?

[Kol Saresk]

You are right Wade, it doesn't excuse what they're doing. Just like how wanting to save Germany by conquering the world and murdering Jews didn't excuse Hitler. But that's not what Greyall is saying. He is saying that because of their beliefs and refusal to learn, it's no wonder the Space Wolves became hypocrites(assuming they were included in the Edict of Nikea), because in their eyes, they aren't. But in the eyes of apparently at least two Legions(both of which were founders of the Librarius), they are hypocrites.

[Emperor's Furor]

It's pointed out in Betrayal that prior to even Angron coming they were already chosen from the most aggressive initiates and even their support elements such as the titan legion and imperial army regiments seconded to them all had the same characteristics (apparently the titan legion did something bad, like blow up a civilian population "Lorin Alpha Massacre".) Sanguinius even states "The Emperor is assembling a carnival of monsters for his amusement, although I doubt whoever he unleashes them upon will see the jest". Even before Angron turned up the War Hounds were a bunch of rabid dogs.