b1soul Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I would find it incredibly lame if no other legion is able to beat the Alpha Legion in an engagement. You can't have every AL loss be fake If the AL are so much smarter than every other legion, the Imperium might as well have 20 Alpha Legions instead of these blockheaded Ultramarines, Space Wolves, White Scars, Imperial Fists etc. At some point I think it would be wise of BL to show the AL getting countered hard by another legion. Right now, I think they're starting to go a bit overboard with the AL's "all your base are belong to us" schtick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The problem is, because it is the Alpha Legion, everyone will assume it's an intentional loss. Sucks, but decades of GW abusing their sneakiness is going to take a lot more than one loss to counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Not all of these defeats are necessarily fake. Think of the Alpha Legion as cockroaches. As long as one survives, there is potential for yet another infestation to occur. So it isn't that the defeats are fake, it is that they aren't extensive enough. I mean come on, you can drop a nuke and the cockroach will survive. Cut its head off and lives for like another seven days I think. The only way to kill them outright is to curbstomp them. But it's almost impossible to stomp every single cockroach in one house. And the moment you turn away, BAM! they're back. Unfortunately, two many people show the one cockroach surviving rather than the few occasions that one infestation truly is wiped out, even though it isn't the entirety of the Legion. The closest example in BL format I can think of is The Hunt for Voldorius. Unfortunately, we only saw the ending stages of the hunt, we didn't see the entirety of it because apparently we only needed to hear bits and pieces of it to be entertained(not saying it worked, just that must have been the thought pattern behind it). As a result, we didn't the just how much trouble, the White Scars had to go through just to exterminate one warband. As a result, it is even harder to imagine how hard it is to take out an entire organization large enough to justify a claim of "the Legion is dead". But, I do fully agree. It would be better that this gap was just one of the few mistakes the Alpha Legion makes from time to time and the White Scars were able to capitalize on it. The Alpha Legion's sneakiness is no different from the Night Lords' "Raptor Legion" problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Who is Carron? Firaeveus Carron was an Alpha Legion Champion of Khorne who led the Chaos forces in the Kaurava Campaign as played in the Soulstorm expansion of the Dawn of War videogame. He absolutely hated metal boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I think they should have kept the AL mutation chaos free it just makes them less likeable and like every other chaos warband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Who is Carron?Firaeveus Carron was an Alpha Legion Champion of Khorne who led the Chaos forces in the Kaurava Campaign as played in the Soulstorm expansion of the Dawn of War videogame. He absolutely hated metal boxes. Oh right. Yeah, I forgot about him. Soulstorm was kind of anti-climatic for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Ehh dawn of war was anti climatic once they stopped me mass producing heavy bolter turrets. Ever surrounded a blood thirsted with them then led him into a barrage of fire with a servitor :) Quite amusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 See, I got bored because the only way to play Chaos was mass-spawning fully upgraded CSM squads with that invisibility and Heavy Bolters. Although it was fantastic for slaughtering Necrons because I could just plant five squads right next to a Monolith and they couldn't do crap except Attack the Ground. But when it came to Tau, yeah, not working. Couldn't even get close enough to do anything. Heck, Monoliths didn't even last long against Tau players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 That's why I went guard and had like 10 barracks all qued up with guardsmen and once produced sending them into the heart if a base on fury mode, as they were built upgrade squad to max troops and say back and waited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Tau and Eldar were pretty OP. Eldar were especially difficult to kill, since they could hide those Webways freaking anywhere. Tau were tough to stop, especially if they had mass produced stealth suits. Highly mobile, highly destructive, highly elusive, cheap to produce, quick to rebuild and initially available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 That's why I went guard and had like 10 barracks all qued up with guardsmen and once produced sending them into the heart if a base on fury mode, as they were built upgrade squad to max troops and say back and waited Hehe, I slaughtered someone who tried that while my teammate who was playing Eldar ran around and blew up their base while they were focused on exterminating me. I think my best experience was in DoW2, I was playing with a different Eldar Player against a SM and a Nid player. Built up an army of Plague Marines, and then while they focused on my base, we took out the SM base, warped through a way Webway back to his base, use what resourse I had left to replenish my squads to full capacity, and then we killed the Nid's Carni-spam and his base. The Nid player got his panties in a bunch and said I cheated because the game was "Kill Everything" and I sacrificed my base to save my troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Ha! Good tactics I agree with the philosophy of ground is only valuable if you put a price on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Michael Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The Council at Nikaea happened decades before the Heresy ... Jaghatai didn't hear about the ruling at all? The Scars actually had a Liberian testify at the council. You can find it In Prospero Burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Who is Carron? Firaeveus Carron was an Alpha Legion Champion of Khorne who led the Chaos forces in the Kaurava Campaign as played in the Soulstorm expansion of the Dawn of War videogame. He absolutely hated metal boxes. TEH FEWLZ...*gasp* we shall take away their metal bawkses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The Council at Nikaea happened decades before the Heresy ... Jaghatai didn't hear about the ruling at all? The Scars actually had a Liberian testify at the council. You can find it In Prospero Burns. Actually according to A Thousand Sons, it was only a year before Horus' debacle at Davin. Not only that, but the Stormseers have a whole other grouping of responsibilities concerning recruitment, initiates and the politics of Chogoris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 On the other hand, there's already the beginnings of a inter-Legion war going on amongst the Alphas. If it was those who support the Emperor (secretly), letting them pass may have been the plan. Gotta make it look convincing, of course, lest one of the twins tick off the other, or show his hand too early. I think you are right about the XX's Legions actions. It is looking like they evolved themselves just enough to nudge the White scars Loyalties away from Horus and back to the Emperor. Horus Was counting on the Kans help right? He was sure he could get him on his side. He has traitors on the inside. If the Scars go bad that's Check Mate. Horus gave the job of turning the Scars to his side to Alpharius and they fail, on purpose. When people say its lame that the XX Legion is unbeatable i think you are missing the point. Its not that they cant loose a fight or war. Its that their objectives seem to be bigger then mere winning or loosing. When they loose they seem to have meant to for a greater, longer range view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The story is so far, but one thing concerns me, and apparently Bellarius shares those concerns: http://thefoundingfields.com/2013/09/horus-heresy-scars-episode-six-by-chris-wraight-advance-review-bellarius/ This is supposed to be the book where the White Scars get their chance to shine, yet they are getting shoved to the side by the Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Reducing books and stories to the protagonist Legion can really leave the narrative hollow just to give spotlight to the "character of the day". So far, 'Scars' has successfuly painted Khan as a very independent and competent leader, but also given him an air of mistery and out-of-the-box acting that is really cool. As for the Wolves, this is a major moment for them as well, and perhaps even for the Alpha Legion. But for Russ, this is the moment when his world crumbles around him and he has to pick himself up. In the end, though, the Scars are indeed the center of the story. Both sides really want to enlist the Khan's boys, who are starting to be seen as a majorly competent force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 If the AL are so much smarter than every other legion, the Imperium might as well have 20 Alpha Legions instead of these blockheaded Ultramarines, Space Wolves, White Scars, Imperial Fists etc. We're working on it, one Raven Guard at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The Alphas' ways are often innefficient. Sometimes you meet a foe who is too big for direct confrontation and has to be dismantled from within, and sometimes all you need is to conquer ground, establish yourself and blitzkrieg your way into the top tier - fast and hard. It's all in using the right tool. If a person with just a hammer sees every problem as a nail, the person with a smartphone will call the construction crew and his engineer uncle for each and every nail. Those will be the most perfectly set nails the town has ever seen - and they'll work even when the original project turns into a retirement home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 That is their flaw as a legion, Alpharius having to approach every engagement from the most complicated angle just to prove the worth of his legion. It's the problem with being the youngest sibling. My thoughts are that regarding the Alphas, they do have a face kicking coming soon, its just that with the timeline of the novels, its still relatively early regarding the heresy. There is this huge atmosphere of confusion whilst allegiances are still being confirmed and battle lines drawn up. The XXth look like they are stomping everything at the moment, simply because this is exactly the sort of environment that they thrive in. Once the loyalists stop being on the back foot and gain some traction, things wont become so easy. There are some big damn heroes on the imperium's side, it's going to be difficult to deal with them once they get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 On the idea that the Space Wolves are outshining the White Scars at the moment, I disagree. Space Wolves are a side show they are playing the necessary part in the story but nothing else, the White Scars however are being fully developed, their is an internal struggle about to break out. The character of the legion is being explained and explored, I wouldn't say the Space Wolves are eclipsing the White Scars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High MarshalGR Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I would find it incredibly lame if no other legion is able to beat the Alpha Legion in an engagement. You can't have every AL loss be fake If the AL are so much smarter than every other legion, the Imperium might as well have 20 Alpha Legions instead of these blockheaded Ultramarines, Space Wolves, White Scars, Imperial Fists etc. At some point I think it would be wise of BL to show the AL getting countered hard by another legion. Right now, I think they're starting to go a bit overboard with the AL's "all your base are belong to us" schtick. OPOPOPOPOPOP! DANGER! ENTERING THE UNBEATABLE ZONE OF CHUCK NORRIS! Just kidding. But frankly, it would be nice to show the losing without some secret plan which was activated when they lost and they exactly calculated when and where they would lose so they could initiate a win condition via their loss and they faked it when they had the ace in the whole and were ready etc. With the right BL work they will be fine. As they are now, they are the sh1t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 On the idea that the Space Wolves are outshining the White Scars at the moment, I disagree. Space Wolves are a side show they are playing the necessary part in the story but nothing else, the White Scars however are being fully developed, their is an internal struggle about to break out. The character of the legion is being explained and explored, I wouldn't say the Space Wolves are eclipsing the White Scars. If I've been following the story well: The Terran-born White Scar (who wanted to be a Son of Horus) is about to have some deep second thoughts about his allegiance, right? Where is he now, by the way? Away from home? Well, not that I like the 'Alpha Legion did it' trope being abused, but it's entirely possible for a smart person or group (nevermind two Primarchs) to come up with a clever backup plan that allows for a great comeback just in case things go to hell. It's just that many of us regular folks don't usually have such a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 On the idea that the Space Wolves are outshining the White Scars at the moment, I disagree. Space Wolves are a side show they are playing the necessary part in the story but nothing else, the White Scars however are being fully developed, their is an internal struggle about to break out. The character of the legion is being explained and explored, I wouldn't say the Space Wolves are eclipsing the White Scars. If I've been following the story well: The Terran-born White Scar (who wanted to be a Son of Horus) is about to have some deep second thoughts about his allegiance, right? Where is he now, by the way? Away from home? Well, not that I like the 'Alpha Legion did it' trope being abused, but it's entirely possible for a smart person or group (nevermind two Primarchs) to come up with a clever backup plan that allows for a great comeback just in case things go to hell. It's just that many of us regular folks don't usually have such a plan. He was talking at the beginning of the book with a fellow lodge member about how they should act now, the other guy tells him to calm down and wait for the right opportunity as ordered, this suggests the guy has some form of contact with the traitor forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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