Emperor's Furor Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 I thought it was Alpharius that was turning against the cabal and it was Omegon still going along with it or am I mixed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 We don't know yet. My theory is that the AL are trying to fulfil neither or both of the Acuitys prophecies, thus creating a third option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well, in Serpent Beneath, Alpharius was the one talking to the Cabal representative and it was Omegon who flushed the same representative out the airlock after orchestrating the destruction of an installation that was just keeping the White Scars isolated in the Chondax system. The destruction of that said installation resulted in the Alpha Legion having to confront the White Scars, which is now being portrayed in Scars, if I have kept up with everything. On a side note, the Alpha Legion joined up with the Cabal in order to destroy Chaos. So if Omegon is acting against the Cabal, is he loyal to the Emperor, or Chaos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well, in Serpent Beneath, Alpharius was the one talking to the Cabal representative and it was Omegon who flushed the same representative out the airlock after orchestrating the destruction of an installation that was just keeping the White Scars isolated in the Chondax system. The destruction of that said installation resulted in the Alpha Legion having to confront the White Scars, which is now being portrayed in Scars, if I have kept up with everything. On a side note, the Alpha Legion joined up with the Cabal in order to destroy Chaos. So if Omegon is acting against the Cabal, is he loyal to the Emperor, or Chaos? The cabal representative was not in The Serpent Beneath though, that's from Deliverance Lost. It seems like that happens before the events of The Serpent Beneath. And Scars takes place right after The Serpent Beneath. IF there is a rift(The primarchs may be fooling their own legion! After all there was a legionnaire present when Omegon lied to Alph about the tenebrae installation) and Omegon is trying to create a third option, to make both prophecies either fail or succeed at the same time(my interpretation of the third paradox, mentioned in The Serpent Beneath), that would mean that he is loyal to humanity, and thus to the emperor to some degree... I think. I really need to buy Deliverance Lost as a book... only listened to the audioversion and I tend to miss some details when my attention drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well, in Serpent Beneath, Alpharius was the one talking to the Cabal representative and it was Omegon who flushed the same representative out the airlock after orchestrating the destruction of an installation that was just keeping the White Scars isolated in the Chondax system. The destruction of that said installation resulted in the Alpha Legion having to confront the White Scars, which is now being portrayed in Scars, if I have kept up with everything. On a side note, the Alpha Legion joined up with the Cabal in order to destroy Chaos. So if Omegon is acting against the Cabal, is he loyal to the Emperor, or Chaos? The cabal representative was not in The Serpent Beneath though, that's from Deliverance Lost. It seems like that happens before the events of The Serpent Beneath. And Scars takes place right after The Serpent Beneath. Oops. Apologies, and thank you for correcting me. IF there is a rift(The primarchs may be fooling their own legion! After all there was a legionnaire present when Omegon lied to Alph about the tenebrae installation) and Omegon is trying to create a third option, to make both prophecies either fail or succeed at the same time(my interpretation of the third paradox, mentioned in The Serpent Beneath), that would mean that he is loyal to humanity, and thus to the emperor to some degree... I think. I really need to buy Deliverance Lost as a book... only listened to the audioversion and I tend to miss some details when my attention drops. Hmm, well loyalty to Humanity doesn't necessarily equate loyalty to the Emperor. Look at Lorgar. Part of his motivation is that if Humanity can join the warp in symbiosis, Humanity will come out better for it. And IIRC, didn't all of the Legionnaires who knew the truth of the installation's destruction die with the installation? Or am I misremembering that as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I just don't see how for a legion that seems to honestly for all intents and purposes be neutral, can in the 41st millennium be portrayed like the rest of the CSM. And the scars are finally getting a overhaul, now if they could just release a proper upgrade pack I want moustaches and thin beards with beads, stretched earlobes (around 40mm would be preferable as I can convert myself to a marine finally) and awesome unique weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well, part of the Alpha Legion's background is that most of their recorded activity is anti-Imperial. When they get mutations, they would flaunt them in the Imperials' faces. They are the backing power in more than a few cult uprisings, many of which are Chaos cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 But the whole anti chaos siding with Horus to destroy chaos then hey y'all check out my tenticals... Don't really like it in all honesty I'd rather them be anti imperium anti chaos like malice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Well, its assuming they don't get corrupted by intentionally siding with Chaos during the Heresy. Look at the Relictors. Just picking up one warp tainted sword was enough to damn an entire Chapter. Imagine what happens when an entire Legion then swears loyalty to such powers, even if they think they're only lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 @Kol: Well, it's hard to say, but after having seen the acuity I don't think the AL would want humanity to slowly degenerate into corruption by Chaos. I mean, their psyker died from the horror of percieving that future. And yes, all legionnaires who knew about Omegon's sabotage died. But afterwards Alpharius and Omegon discuss who could have been behind it(Omegon doesn't tell the truth) at the bridge of the ship while a legionnaire stands nearby. That could imply that they are fooling their own legion into thinking they aren't taking opposing sides, while they secretly do, to achieve a third option for the future. One plays loyal and one plays traitor, but both are really loyal to each other, while their legion remains clueless. The other option is of course that Omegon is really decieving his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It's going to be really interesting to see what direction they take with the Alpha Legion... Speaking of that, I really wonder what threw that space wolf across the room in front of Bjorn in the latest chapter... A dreadnought? A daemon? A mechanicum Castellax? Kaldor Draigo?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It's going to be really interesting to see what direction they take with the Alpha Legion... Speaking of that, I really wonder what threw that space wolf across the room in front of Bjorn in the latest chapter... A dreadnought? A daemon? A mechanicum Castellax? Kaldor Draigo?.. Clearly not the latter... or he would have his signature on a very dear place come on dude get your flufftrocities in check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 About Omegon's intentions: Option A: Horus wins, mankind lose, chaos lose eventually Option B: Emp wins, mankind wins, chaos wins eventually Option C (the possible third acuity IMO): Horus dies, the Emp is broken (neither of them win), mankind suffers for a long time, chaos lose eventually somehow, possibly in a last great battle ("The Wolf Time" the return of Russ, Vulkan, Corax etc...). Or some other alternative. Either way, I think Omegon wants to save mankind as much as destroy chaos. Alpharius just stays with Option A because for him is the most "effective" way to destroy chaos and save the galaxy. And maybe Eskrador was a trap for either of the twins Omegon to Alpharius or Alpharius to Omegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 *Note: This is completely random and baseless speculation. Please, do not take seriously. Meaning that somewhere, the "Loyalist" Alpha Legion are posing as Ultramarines, or one of their Successors, which would explain why the "Traitor" Alpha Legion seem to be so obsessed with the Ultramarines and their Successors. They aren't holding a grudge against the XIII, their rooting out their own traitors while destroying enemies. It's not personal, it's business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Interesting. I don't remember any fluff supporting the idea of Chapter cells, though. Where'd you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 *Note: This is completely random and baseless speculation. Please, do not take seriously. Meaning that somewhere, the "Loyalist" Alpha Legion are posing as Ultramarines, or one of their Successors, which would explain why the "Traitor" Alpha Legion seem to be so obsessed with the Ultramarines and their Successors. They aren't holding a grudge against the XIII, their rooting out their own traitors while destroying enemies. It's not personal, it's business! So...one of the twins (the loyalist one most likely) prepared a trap on Eskrador infiltrating his own troops between the Ultramarines and driving the other faction into an open war out of their usual war style to get the traitorous twin (or the other way around) killed, so the surviving and dispersed Alpha Legion (being loyalists or traitors) hate the surviving members of their own legion infiltrated in the ranks of the Ultras, and that's the reason of their obsession with them. That's the reason I love the AL, conspiracies, conspiracies everywhere!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Interesting. I don't remember any fluff supporting the idea of Chapter cells, though. Where'd you hear that? Nowhere, like I said, completely random and baseless speculation. Just sort of a random line of thought based on the fact that they were able to infiltrate the Raven Guard and at least two Chapters, although the methods were different. Pure, baseless speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Well since we started speculating: I think that one of the twins ends up as Janus, first GK grandmaster. Omegon in TSB had unadorned armour, that is common with other Knights Errant. In The Primarchs anthology, there is one important detial in Feat of Iron (Iron Hands story): (mention about statue of A&O) "The visage of a third was split in half, like Janus of old Romanii legend. Two masks, not one, gazed at the primarch. But it was a mistake to think of Janus as having only two faces, for he had many." Besides we got hints of schism between twins from Outcast Dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Again, about the flying Space Wolf, I still think it'd make sense for a Primarch of the AL to help board the Space Wolves ship. Although common sense would advise him not to give up his identity openly unless he has a very good plan to kill Russ in single combat. Anything else about Dorn, Valdor and Malcador? In the Visions book, Dorn was the main reason why the White Scars didn't stay to help the Wolves, with his insistence that the Khan get to Terra. But then Visions portrays Jaghatai and Leman as friends... Valdor is one sneaky rat. Ordering the death of one of the Emperor's sons - twisting his lord's orders, no less, and coincidentally matching those of Horus (hmm...) -, ordering assassins (along with Malcador) to get at Horus without letting Dorn know...if TV Tropes is correct, Valdor is turning into one of those 'good guys' who, do his 'what must be done' attitude, becomes a beacon for a big cruiser missile of karmic retribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 A&O are closer in power level to their sons, I doubt they'd be capable of throwing a Space Wolf a distance across anything. Also, it's a too flashy move for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Not sure about power levels, but your last point makes sense. I just think the suspense they're making with all this "Who'd be capable of doing that?" points at something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 About Omegon's intentions: Option A: Horus wins, mankind lose, chaos lose eventually Option B: Emp wins, mankind wins, chaos wins eventually Option C (the possible third acuity IMO): Horus dies, the Emp is broken (neither of them win), mankind suffers for a long time, chaos lose eventually somehow, possibly in a last great battle ("The Wolf Time" the return of Russ, Vulkan, Corax etc...). Or some other alternative. Either way, I think Omegon wants to save mankind as much as destroy chaos. Alpharius just stays with Option A because for him is the most "effective" way to destroy chaos and save the galaxy. And maybe Eskrador was a trap for either of the twins Omegon to Alpharius or Alpharius to Omegon. I don't think that Option B was ever in the cards as far as the acuity viewing went. Option C, with the Emperor being all corpse like on the Golden Throne is what the acuity showed, and what triggered the death of psyker guy. Option A is what the cabal is trying to get to. Alpha Legion though? No idea. They have that super-Astartes geneseed goop from Deliverance Lost, and they gave corrupted data on that to Horus and Fabius. Maybe they're attempting to bring about Option A, but to have enough of an army on their side that they can protect some small core of humanity, maybe hoping that Chaos won't survive if there's only a million or so humans left, and that they can wing it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 It would be interesting to find out that the Alphas fighting the Wolves are doing it because they believe the Wolves are against the Emperor. Kind of a culling of the loyal Alphas. Like the Word Bearers and Calth. Except that the Primarchs are also doing it to the traitors as well. Maybe to replace their numbers with some of the Deliverence Lost grown Alphas that are only loyal to the primarchs. I've seen no evidence that would support that theory. From what we've seen of the AL this far, the legionnaires appears to be extremely loyal to their primarch(s). The rift in the legion seems rather to be between Omegon and Alpharius, if there is one, remember how Omegon had the Tenebrae installation destroyed so that the Scars could get word from Terra? And I have a hard time believing the AL would believe that the Wolves had turned traitor simply because Horus had said so. The Word Bearers are religious fanatics, the Alpha Legion are the cold-headed pragmatic masters of subterfuge who hates getting their hands dirty. That is if we are to assume that those warp storms were only ment for the White Scars. Remember Lorgar used Calth to cull his own Legion. Those that went to Calth likely didn't know that that was the reason they where chosen. We also don't know what the "Knife at Alpharius' back" is yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Well since we started speculating: I think that one of the twins ends up as Janus, first GK grandmaster. Omegon in TSB had unadorned armour, that is common with other Knights Errant. In The Primarchs anthology, there is one important detial in Feat of Iron (Iron Hands story): (mention about statue of A&O) "The visage of a third was split in half, like Janus of old Romanii legend. Two masks, not one, gazed at the primarch. But it was a mistake to think of Janus as having only two faces, for he had many." Besides we got hints of schism between twins from Outcast Dead. My idea is that the primarchs will decieve everyone(including the legion), Alpharius plays traitor(His legionnaires think they really are traitors and therefore embraces Chaos), while Omegon plays loyal. This is to make both sides fail and/or succeed, thus creating a third paradox. Then it makes sense that he would become the first Grandmaster. There is a line in Deliverance Lost: "As they had done so many times before, Alpharius and his Legion had stepped upon a narrow path, playing a part to two opposing sides to achieve a third, more desirable outcome." It would make sense that the authors would try to fool us readers into thinking there is a true rift(while giving us very few hints about the truth), since it would make a great twist which is very Alpharius Omegon-like to reveal that it was false: 1.The AL are traitors! 2.The AL are loyal! 3.The AL are split into two factions, Alpharius' loyal and Omegon's traitor! 4.Alpharius and Omegon played traitor respectively loyal while secretly following their own shared agenda, fooling everyone! And to speculate about the outcome: 5.They failed anyway, and are now split into two factions for real! 6. Welcome to 40k Alpha Legion! Edit: Spoilerified it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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